2023 MN High School Football season

What do you have against Mayer Lutheran?
Nothing. But private schools have different resources per kid

There is a multiplier to reduce school size for free and reduced kids (.6)
There should be a different multiplier for kids who pay tuition (1.1)
Tuition over 5k per year (1.3)
And over 10k per year (1.6)

Totino should be a 5a school at a minimum. As should hill Murray. Both in 4a state tourney.

Lourdes should be in 4a not 2 or 3a
 

Nothing. But private schools have different resources per kid

There is a multiplier to reduce school size for free and reduced kids (.6)
There should be a different multiplier for kids who pay tuition (1.1)
Tuition over 5k per year (1.3)
And over 10k per year (1.6)

Totino should be a 5a school at a minimum. As should hill Murray. Both in 4a state tourney.

Lourdes should be in 4a not 2 or 3a
Many privates have far fewer resources than publics. How should that factor in?
 

Many privates have far fewer resources than publics. How should that factor in?
Maybe for special education but those kids don’t factor into private schools how they do public. Spin it how you want to but in general people going to schools like Providence Academy, BSM, Holy Angels, Hill Murray, TG, STA, etc have $$$. They can pay for camps and specialized training that those of us average folks can not.

one of my wife’s former players for WBL in association hockey was a private school kid who’s dad is a CEO and the kids had specialized training sessions with Gino Guyer. People with money are the only ones who can do this
 

Public schools service the special education students that attend private schools.

Most private schools have higher amount of resources than public schools especially for athletics. Not bound to some of the same laws as public schools. You look across the state many of the facilities at private school are better than the public schools.
 

This is interesting. the Iowa HS Athletic Association is going to court to try and prevent a media partner from charging fans to watch live streaming coverage of state FB playoffs.

The Iowa High School Athletic Association (IHSAA) has released the following statement today:

The IHSAA is litigating a media rights dispute with the Iowa High School Sports Network (IHSSN), the current rights holder for select championship events.

IHSSN plans to charge live streaming viewers of the upcoming IHSAA State Football Semifinals and Finals at the UNI-Dome. We have objected to IHSSN’s live streaming charges since they were announced this summer. The dispute remains ongoing in Polk County District Court.

The IHSAA will continue to pursue free public access to broadcasts and streaming of its championship events. Until then, attending IHSAA championships allows fans to support our schools in person and ensures purchases go toward student-athlete programs and experiences.


Meanwhile, The MSHSL web site encourages fans to Subscribe to its media partner, NSPN.TV and pay to watch streaming of HS FB playoffs. different philosophies.
 


Maybe for special education but those kids don’t factor into private schools how they do public. Spin it how you want to but in general people going to schools like Providence Academy, BSM, Holy Angels, Hill Murray, TG, STA, etc have $$$. They can pay for camps and specialized training that those of us average folks can not.

one of my wife’s former players for WBL in association hockey was a private school kid who’s dad is a CEO and the kids had specialized training sessions with Gino Guyer. People with money are the only ones who can do this
For every school you mentioned there's a Martin Luther, Southwest Christian, Hillcrest, Immanual, MVL, where parents of modest means send their kids for religious centered education, often at great sacrifice to the family and without a care about athletics and although there might be occasional success on the athletic fields, it's just as likely or more that these teams are cupcakes on the public school schedule. Take a drive down New Ulm and watch the Cathedral kids walk 7 blocks to practice ina city park, the field itself on a hill. Or into the gym. And then head to the public high school and look at their facilities and equipment. Then tell me who has the advantage. I'm aware there are many schools, mostly metro based, populated by wealthy families might create seemingly unfair advantages. But to suggest all privates have the same advantages paints with an awfully broad and frankly ignorant brush.
 

For every school you mentioned there's a Martin Luther, Southwest Christian, Hillcrest, Immanual, MVL, where parents of modest means send their kids for religious centered education, often at great sacrifice to the family and without a care about athletics and although there might be occasional success on the athletic fields, it's just as likely or more that these teams are cupcakes on the public school schedule. Take a drive down New Ulm and watch the Cathedral kids walk 7 blocks to practice ina city park, the field itself on a hill. Or into the gym. And then head to the public high school and look at their facilities and equipment. Then tell me who has the advantage. I'm aware there are many schools, mostly metro based, populated by wealthy families might create seemingly unfair advantages. But to suggest all privates have the same advantages paints with an awfully broad and frankly ignorant brush.
There is a very big difference when you compare a school like Cathedral to the public school. The enrollment is like 6 times less. Basically when comparing the resources of a nine man team to any AAA school the 9 man will have considerably less resources. But guessing the resources at Cathedral are similar a school like Cromwell (aside from space).
 

For every school you mentioned there's a Martin Luther, Southwest Christian, Hillcrest, Immanual, MVL, where parents of modest means send their kids for religious centered education, often at great sacrifice to the family and without a care about athletics and although there might be occasional success on the athletic fields, it's just as likely or more that these teams are cupcakes on the public school schedule. Take a drive down New Ulm and watch the Cathedral kids walk 7 blocks to practice ina city park, the field itself on a hill. Or into the gym. And then head to the public high school and look at their facilities and equipment. Then tell me who has the advantage. I'm aware there are many schools, mostly metro based, populated by wealthy families might create seemingly unfair advantages. But to suggest all privates have the same advantages paints with an awfully broad and frankly ignorant brush.
The “resources”of the private religious schools is not what most people really have an issue with. But it sounds a lot better coming out of the mouth than the truth.
 

Many privates have far fewer resources than publics. How should that factor in?
All privates have fewer resources from the state than publics. That’s the nature of a private school. And it shouldn’t factor in
 



The “resources”of the private religious schools is not what most people really have an issue with. But it sounds a lot better coming out of the mouth than the truth.
Recruiting? And family wealth.

When I said resources I meant family wealth
 

For every school you mentioned there's a Martin Luther, Southwest Christian, Hillcrest, Immanual, MVL, where parents of modest means send their kids for religious centered education, often at great sacrifice to the family and without a care about athletics and although there might be occasional success on the athletic fields, it's just as likely or more that these teams are cupcakes on the public school schedule. Take a drive down New Ulm and watch the Cathedral kids walk 7 blocks to practice ina city park, the field itself on a hill. Or into the gym. And then head to the public high school and look at their facilities and equipment. Then tell me who has the advantage. I'm aware there are many schools, mostly metro based, populated by wealthy families might create seemingly unfair advantages. But to suggest all privates have the same advantages paints with an awfully broad and frankly ignorant brush.
Yup. And those schools shouldn’t have a very large factor. Which is why I said 1.1


That would make a school of 400, 440 for classification purposes.

Mayer Lutheran would go from 183 to 201 and wouldn’t change classes in my scenario

Mayer Lutheran is more likely to have football success than Deer River based on the fact they are a private school IMO. Deer River is enrollment 182
 
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Right. If a particular school really is a bunch of blue-collar, devout families who scrap together to make a religious school, fine

There should be an easy and obvious way to differentiate those from rich family private schools and the obvious advantages they have over publics of the same basic enrollment count.
 

For every school you mentioned there's a Martin Luther, Southwest Christian, Hillcrest, Immanual, MVL, where parents of modest means send their kids for religious centered education, often at great sacrifice to the family and without a care about athletics and although there might be occasional success on the athletic fields, it's just as likely or more that these teams are cupcakes on the public school schedule. Take a drive down New Ulm and watch the Cathedral kids walk 7 blocks to practice ina city park, the field itself on a hill. Or into the gym. And then head to the public high school and look at their facilities and equipment. Then tell me who has the advantage. I'm aware there are many schools, mostly metro based, populated by wealthy families might create seemingly unfair advantages. But to suggest all privates have the same advantages paints with an awfully broad and frankly ignorant brush.
Many of the kids who go to these schools are affiliated with a church and go to church every week. Those churches are affiliated with the schools and have grants that lower the cost of going to those schools.

I agree that the outstate private model is a bit different than the metro private model.
 



The debate about classification of private schools is as old as private schools themselves. Some private schools have advantages while others certainly do not. What should concern all of us involved in high school athletics is the emergence of athletics specific "schools" who compete in the MSHSL. Mostly competing in hockey thus far, these schools go above and beyond what any private, faith-based school may do to give athletics teams an advantage. Pressure has to be firm and consistent on the MSHSL to prevent these prep schools from competing against actual high schools in Minnesota. That should be our focus.
 

The debate about classification of private schools is as old as private schools themselves. Some private schools have advantages while others certainly do not. What should concern all of us involved in high school athletics is the emergence of athletics specific "schools" who compete in the MSHSL. Mostly competing in hockey thus far, these schools go above and beyond what any private, faith-based school may do to give athletics teams an advantage. Pressure has to be firm and consistent on the MSHSL to prevent these prep schools from competing against actual high schools in Minnesota. That should be our focus.
All private have advantages
If you don’t think all privates have advantages you’re kidding yourself.

The primary advantage:
Every family in a private has a family structure supporting them enough to go out of their way to enroll in that school. Even at the poorer privates this is true.
 

All private have advantages
If you don’t think all privates have advantages you’re kidding yourself.

The primary advantage:
Every family in a private has a family structure supporting them enough to go out of their way to enroll in that school. Even at the poorer privates this is true.
Nothing is ever fair my friend, including public schools. Even with the free/educated lunch equation, do you really think Richfield's 900 kids have the same advantages as Orono's 900 kids?

That being said, you completely missed the main thesis of my post....
 

Nothing is ever fair my friend, including public schools. Even with the free/educated lunch equation, do you really think Richfield's 900 kids have the same advantages as Orono's 900 kids?

That being said, you completely missed the main thesis of my post....
They do try to account for those differences by only counting kids receiving aid for school lunch as .6.
 

They do try to account for those differences by only counting kids receiving aid for school lunch as .6.
Ok, yes, most private schools do have advantages. I agree overall. My point is those advantages are a minor inconvenience compared to the emergence of prep schools masquerading as high schools. Gentry Academy has 120 kids....120!!!! Wonder how many of those 120 are attending that school for the STEM classes or drama program??
 


Ok, yes, most private schools do have advantages. I agree overall. My point is those advantages are a minor inconvenience compared to the emergence of prep schools masquerading as high schools. Gentry Academy has 120 kids....120!!!! Wonder how many of those 120 are attending that school for the STEM classes or drama program??
Gentry is a private school
 

Nothing is ever fair my friend, including public schools. Even with the free/educated lunch equation, do you really think Richfield's 900 kids have the same advantages as Orono's 900 kids?

That being said, you completely missed the main thesis of my post....
Right. Just like St. Agnes and Holy Angels are not the same as Providence Academy, despite all three being Catholic high schools.
 

Ok, yes, most private schools do have advantages. I agree overall. My point is those advantages are a minor inconvenience compared to the emergence of prep schools masquerading as high schools. Gentry Academy has 120 kids....120!!!! Wonder how many of those 120 are attending that school for the STEM classes or drama program??
It's not a fake school though, like Bishop Sycamore.
 

It's not a fake school though, like Bishop Sycamore.
This is the key. As long as the kids are getting an actual education, I have no issue with any of them, even if they are more geared towards sports.

That said, do I think they should compete against normal high schools? I don't know. Probably? But I don't know enough about it.
 

I have heard this argument for so long that I'm just tired of it. I remember when private schools held a separate state tournament. (Augsburg hosted it one year when I was a student there.)

But here's where I sit. Yes, some students may choose a private school because of athletic opportunities. But how is that different than students who use open enrollment to change schools in search of athletic opportunities? or situations where parents actually establish residency in a different district so that a student can play sports at the school of their choice?

in the end, students and parents who are seeking an opportunity for athletic success will go wherever they see the best opportunity, and by whatever mechanism is available. and that goes well beyond just private schools.
 

That hockey academy (forget name and where in metro it is) should not be allowed to compete in the MSHSL in hockey any more than Shattuck’s hockey teams do.

Same thing.
 

This is the key. As long as the kids are getting an actual education, I have no issue with any of them, even if they are more geared towards sports.

That said, do I think they should compete against normal high schools? I don't know. Probably? But I don't know enough about it.
Gentry’s population should be pro rated so that they play 2a hockey

But in order to do that they would need to be factored at 9.7 😂

Fortunately they opt up. But if they ever feel they’re struggling they can choose not to opt up anymore
 

But here's where I sit. Yes, some students may choose a private school because of athletic opportunities. But how is that different than students who use open enrollment to change schools in search of athletic opportunities?
It's not, which is why open enrollment has largely eliminated the whole argument that private schools have a recruiting advantage. How many athletes at Minnetonka are open enrolled? How many players on the Hopkins basketball teams actually live in the district?
 

It's not, which is why open enrollment has largely eliminated the whole argument that private schools have a recruiting advantage. How many athletes at Minnetonka are open enrolled?

You tell me, you’re making the argument
How many players on the Hopkins basketball teams actually live in the district?
You tell me, you’re making the argument
 

That hockey academy (forget name and where in metro it is) should not be allowed to compete in the MSHSL in hockey any more than Shattuck’s hockey teams do.

Same thing.
Shattuck isn't "not allowed." They choose to play a 7 month long season against elite prep and junior programs all over North America rather than adhere to the restrictions of the MSHSL.

And those restrictions are a big reason some elite hockey players leave their high school teams to play at that level.

It should also be noted. Shattuck is a very good school.
 

My kids are done with high school so I don't care about any of this anymore. At all.
 




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