2022 Transfer Portal Discussion

[MNVCGUY]

They overachieved in the non-conference against a weak schedule. They were as bad as everyone thought they would be in the B1G. They were not competitive in the majority of those games.

We'll see what happens in the transfer portal. If they are not able to land at least two significant guard transfers, they will be picked to finish 13th or 14th again. Ben chose the total rebuild last year, and he chose it again this season.

Apparently we watched very different games this year as I saw a severely undermanned team be very competitive in nearly every game this season.

As for last year vs. this year the situations are very different. Ben didn't choose a total rebuild it was forced on him by guys transferring out. Last year he was a first year guy building a roster from scratch. This year he has a year of experience under his belt, 5 players returning, and 4 incoming freshman he recruited as a base to work from. He has holes to fill in the portal but it is nothing like what he was dealing with last off season.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

That Parker Fox injury date always seems like it may possibly have occurred prior to his signing here. Possibly, all parties involved were aware.

 

[BarnBurner]

^^^^^^^^
One day = severely undermanned, next day recruiting went well and cbj wanted these guys.

CBJ had no impact on transfers out last year, if we are to believe this line. He didnt choose for them to leave on one hand, and on the other hand happiness that Tre, Freeman, Mitchell, etc etc etc left.

Wanting it both ways is really fun to watch.......

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Apparently we watched very different games this year as I saw a severely undermanned team be very competitive in nearly every game this season.

As for last year vs. this year the situations are very different. Ben didn't choose a total rebuild it was forced on him by guys transferring out. Last year he was a first year guy building a roster from scratch. This year he has a year of experience under his belt, 5 players returning, and 4 incoming freshman he recruited as a base to work from. He has holes to fill in the portal but it is nothing like what he was dealing with last off season.

This continues to be the biggest myth repeated constantly on this board. Only Carr and Mashburn Jr were in the portal when Johnson was hired. Over the next several weeks after he was hired, more entered the portal.

Ben inherited the majority of the 2020 team. He didn't recruit any of them to stay other than Ihnen. That's on Ben.

 

[Holy Man]

This continues to be the biggest myth repeated constantly on this board. Only Carr and Mashburn Jr were in the portal when Johnson was hired. Over the next several weeks after he was hired, more entered the portal.

Ben inherited the majority of the 2020 team. He didn't recruit any of them to stay other than Ihnen. That's on Ben.

You know this, how? I am personally aware of one player who Ben did not want back. Ben made that clear to a direct contact of mine in a personal conversation. Other than that, I'm not aware that Ben chose not to recruit any of the other guys on the roster. Your statement suggests an abundance of speculation disguised as determined fact.

If you want to say he failed to keep players here, that's one thing. To say he didn't try to keep them here is quite another.

 

[Gopherfan84]

This continues to be the biggest myth repeated constantly on this board. Only Carr and Mashburn Jr were in the portal when Johnson was hired. Over the next several weeks after he was hired, more entered the portal.

Ben inherited the majority of the 2020 team. He didn't recruit any of them to stay other than Ihnen. That's on Ben.

I agree, you can argue and critique not landing Johnson and Gach. Gabe was gone no matter who was hired. As far as Freeman, Williams, and Mitchell, etc... I don't see how we either didn't upgrade/break even. None of them would've helped imo. I still think it was the right choice to clean house. I liked the idea of taking one year guys as a stop gap and being able to be more selective on who we continue to add as multi year guys.

 

[ecoperson]

My complaints exclusively are about the front court players he recruited (or, more appropriately, didn't recruit) last summer. I have no complaints about the guards he recruited.

"The poster provided an explanation of what happened LAST year in the portal."

No explanation was needed. I lived through it and watched those portal players daily. I know who was available and where they went. What you refer to as an "explanation" is just a hollow justification for the view that this situation was unavoidable. It was not.

The bias is clearly with you and some others. If some of us don't give Ben a free pass on everything, you accuse us of being disgruntled about the hire and of having impossible expectations.

Ben went hard after a number of bigs in the portal. They didn't choose us. He thought he had the package deal with the A&M coach and players locked up. That fell through. Now what?

He took whoever would say yes. The bigs he sought previously weren't buying what he was selling. That is not excusing Johnson... he needs to do better.

There is no free pass... there is acknowledgement of the challenges that he faced. He didn't overcome them LAST YEAR. Let's see what happens THIS YEAR. If he fails, bring out the pitchforks.

You must have me confused with someone else regarding accusations about being disgruntled with the hire. We know there are tons of those fans on the board. I don't bother with that.

 

[leib0039]

"It's a lot easier when you have a chunk of guys on the roster versus having to fill an entire team," Johnson said Thursday. "The other good part is you know what you have, too. And so you know what you need to add, which helps when it comes to the portal."



The Gophers have contacted more than 20 transfers this spring, mostly guards. Some of them have Minnesota ties, including Davidson's Michael Jones (Woodbury), Wofford's Ryan Larson (Cretin-Derham Hall) and Illinois State's Josiah Strong (Champlin Park).


Johnson is searching the portal for a frontcourt piece, but he believes the 6-9, 230-pound Payne can provide an immediate inside presence as well.

"In our league, size and having a presence down low is huge," Johnson said. "That's one thing we're so excited about Pharrel. ... Even as a freshman he's physically ready."



Johnson said he might have one of the only Big Ten teams that has a full roster of players excited about returning and not looking into transferring.

So on the top and bottom quotes. I get the spin, we had no one transfer great! Thats a glass half full/half empty thing to me. Ben brought in a bunch of 1 and done guys, so we still had 8 open spots, I would guess that is higher than most teams. The other thing is, sometimes the guy doesnt leave because he knows he isnt getting a lot of interest otherwise (see Diedhou) I have my doubts Thiam would get overwhelmed with D1 offers so at some point he has a free ride here so stays. So yes in theory it is good to not have an single transfer out, but there are some caveats to that.

The second quote much the same, should I be terrified or really excited that we have really only reached out to guards? I hope that means he has a big 100% locked up so that box is checked and he isnt worried about it. But again the PTSD from last year has me terrified we end up with Fox/Ihnen and two unproven young guys at C and we have to take some random 6'11 big guy who is worthless. Then we end up as a bottom 5 rebounding team again. Lets hope for the former as he is then quoted saying he is fully aware how important bigs are in this league.

Overall I understood the article, you spin things in a good way, you 100% should do that obviously. But it also didnt fully stop any fears I have for the lack of movement this spring.

 

[cjbfbp]

usvarioWho were the frontcourt players he didn't recruit? I can get with being upset he didn't land them, but the net was cast far and wide in the frontcourt. Most cases he lost them to the pros or to programs on more solid footing than us. I'd like to know who you think we didn't recruit that would've been the game changer and that much better over Eric Curry.

The only front court players I know that he recruited were the ones who were mentioned on here by various sources. Most of those weren't likely to come here either because they weren't going to continue their college careers or they had opportunities to go to better places. As Clint Eastwood famously said "A man's gotta know his limitations." Others like Rebraca and Greg Lee were reasonable targets that seemed to be in his wheelhouse. He just missed on them.

Eric Curry was not recruited by Ben to be the starting center. He was going to be a grad assistant but decided to play after Ihnen was hurt. He gave a valiant effort but he probably should have played backup minutes given his physical limitations. Daniels and Ogele should not have been here at all. He seemed to recruit Daniels early probably as a limited backup player. That was a mistake. In an environment of uncertainty you don't assume that most minutes of the game will be handled by better players and all you'll need this guy for is 4 to 8 minutes a game.

I could spend a great deal of time going through big men in the 2021 portal who went to lesser programs than ours and explain why I think they would have been better than the two we settled on. That would be a waste of my time because, if you're like most people who post here, you wouldn't pay any attention to that. When I read something like this:

"I'd like to know who you think we didn't recruit that would've been the game changer"

I know you're not serious and don't care to know the answer anyway. Go through the 2021 portal yourself on Verbal Commits if you're really interested on discovering who likely would have been better than Daniels and Ogele. It's easily sortable by size.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

You know this, how? I am personally aware of one player who Ben did not want back. Ben made that clear to a direct contact of mine in a personal conversation. Other than that, I'm not aware that Ben chose not to recruit any of the other guys on the roster. Your statement suggests an abundance of speculation disguised as determined fact.

If you want to say he failed to keep players here, that's one thing. To say he didn't try to keep them here is quite another.

I'm not saying he didn't try to keep him here, I'm saying what you have said and that he failed to keep them here.

He didn't inherit an empty roster. He inherited a roster with only Carr and Mashburn Jr in the portal, neither of which committed anywhere until well after Ben was the coach. I fully believe there are a few players he didn't want either, which is totally fine.

 

[cjbfbp]

I'm not saying he didn't try to keep him here, I'm saying what you have said and that he failed to keep them here.

He didn't inherit an empty roster. He inherited a roster with only Carr and Mashburn Jr in the portal, neither of which committed anywhere until well after Ben was the coach. I fully believe there are a few players he didn't want either, which is totally fine.

Obviously he should have tried to keep Freeman if he could have.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I agree, you can argue and critique not landing Johnson and Gach. Gabe was gone no matter who was hired. As far as Freeman, Williams, and Mitchell, etc... I don't see how we either didn't upgrade/break even. None of them would've helped imo. I still think it was the right choice to clean house. I liked the idea of taking one year guys as a stop gap and being able to be more selective on who we continue to add as multi year guys.

Gabe didn't enter the portal until 10 days after Ben was hired. If he was gone no matter what, why didn't he enter it earlier?

Even just keeping Gach and Johnson would have made them deeper and more competitive this year. Those two and Gabe all left to go play for other 1st year head coaches. Freeman would have been better than Ogele, and probably Daniels too.

 

[MNVCGUY]

So on the top and bottom quotes. I get the spin, we had no one transfer great! Thats a glass half full/half empty thing to me. Ben brought in a bunch of 1 and done guys, so we still had 8 open spots, I would guess that is higher than most teams. The other thing is, sometimes the guy doesnt leave because he knows he isnt getting a lot of interest otherwise (see Diedhou) I have my doubts Thiam would get overwhelmed with D1 offers so at some point he has a free ride here so stays. So yes in theory it is good to not have an single transfer out, but there are some caveats to that.

The second quote much the same, should I be terrified or really excited that we have really only reached out to guards? I hope that means he has a big 100% locked up so that box is checked and he isnt worried about it. But again the PTSD from last year has me terrified we end up with Fox/Ihnen and two unproven young guys at C and we have to take some random 6'11 big guy who is worthless. Then we end up as a bottom 5 rebounding team again. Lets hope for the former as he is then quoted saying he is fully aware how important bigs are in this league.

Overall I understood the article, you spin things in a good way, you 100% should do that obviously. But it also didnt fully stop any fears I have for the lack of movement this spring.

It says right in the part you bolded that he is searching the portal for a front court piece.

Obviously most of the guys we are going after in the portal are going to be guards because that is where the biggest need is. But just because most of the guys we are publicly going after are guards that doesn't mean all of them are.

 

[cjbfbp]

Jones, who played his last game with Davidson against Michigan State in the NCAA tournament, said he is visiting Stanford this weekend,

Johnson can't discuss specific players who haven't signed, but he said the Gophers have an advantage recruiting Minnesotans who are already familiar with him and the program.

About a week or two ago I said the following about a guess for who would be the first transfer commit:

"I'm going to guess Mike Jones. If not, maybe Ryan Larson. Jones went to a hoity-toity private school so it's possible that he might prefer to go someplace like Vanderbilt, Stanford, or Northwestern."

I may have overestimated Jones' proclivity to commit here but it looks like my hunch about a possible preference for hoity-toity private schools may have been on the mark.

Is Johnson really correct in that presumption about Minnesota players? I'm not sure the evidence so far supports a solid conclusion on that. I'm also not sure that familiarity is always a positive. There is that old saying: familiarity breeds contempt.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Apparently we watched very different games this year as I saw a severely undermanned team be very competitive in nearly every game this season.

As for last year vs. this year the situations are very different. Ben didn't choose a total rebuild it was forced on him by guys transferring out. Last year he was a first year guy building a roster from scratch. This year he has a year of experience under his belt, 5 players returning, and 4 incoming freshman he recruited as a base to work from. He has holes to fill in the portal but it is nothing like what he was dealing with last off season.

As for the competitiveness of the team, 11 of their 16 losses in the B1G were by 10 or more. They were also down by 22 at one point to Indiana at home, then made a bunch of 3s at the end to only lose by 5.

Against other bottom feeders they lost to Penn St by 21, Nebraska by 13, Northwestern by 13, and Maryland by 11. That doesn't seem very competitive to me.

 

[leib0039]

It says right in the part you bolded that he is searching the portal for a front court piece.

Obviously most of the guys we are going after in the portal are going to be guards because that is where the biggest need is. But just because most of the guys we are publicly going after are guards that doesn't mean all of them are.

I get that, but its seems like FAR less of a priority. That was more my point. After how much we got dominated on the boards/post I dont think putting it totally on the back burner is a great idea unless you know you have someone locked up.

 

[cjbfbp]

You know this, how? I am personally aware of one player who Ben did not want back. Ben made that clear to a direct contact of mine in a personal conversation.

Begging your pardon, but if he was willing to admit to not wanting one player in a conversation, I'm guessing that there were others he was at least indifferent to keeping. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad a number of these players left and some, like Robbins, probably weren't going to be persuadable (he missed most of the season anyway) but I would have strongly preferred Sam Freeman and Kenny Pohto over Daniels and Ogele. Brandon Johnson probably wasn't going to stay here after he received an offer from his home town team.

 

[MNVCGUY]

As for the competitiveness of the team, 11 of their 16 losses in the B1G were by 10 or more. They were also down by 22 at one point to Indiana at home, then made a bunch of 3s at the end to only lose by 5.

Against other bottom feeders they lost to Penn St by 21, Nebraska by 13, Northwestern by 13, and Maryland by 11. That doesn't seem very competitive to me.

They had a few clunkers and faded at the end in some others but this team battled all year and very few of their losses were blowouts where they had no shot to win the game.

Guess it all comes down to how you define competitive and that will be different for everyone. But when I watched this team play (and I watched a lot of games this year) they were in it with most of the teams they played for the vast majority of the game. In the end they weren't able to pull off the victory but for a team with almost no size in the front court going up against Big Ten competition they held up pretty well all things considered.

 

[Spottedmuskie]

This continues to be the biggest myth repeated constantly on this board. Only Carr and Mashburn Jr were in the portal when Johnson was hired. Over the next several weeks after he was hired, more entered the portal.

Ben inherited the majority of the 2020 team. He didn't recruit any of them to stay other than Ihnen. That's on Ben.

Not Ben's fault that Pitino made their experiences in MN miserable.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Gabe didn't enter the portal until 10 days after Ben was hired. If he was gone no matter what, why didn't he enter it earlier?

Even just keeping Gach and Johnson would have made them deeper and more competitive this year. Those two and Gabe all left to go play for other 1st year head coaches. Freeman would have been better than Ogele, and probably Daniels too.

I'm telling you this with the most sincere confidence I can. Gabe was gone. If anything the hiring of Ben and Thorson maybe made him reconsider. Just cause he didn't enter the portal the next day doesn't change that. He was gone basically in December. He almost left the year before.

Gach left late and for an experienced HC with MN ties and back to a place/conference he felt more confortable at (Utah) and Johnson went home to Depaul. Again feel free to hold him on those two. I think that's more than fair to say he lost them and didn't keep them here.

Ogele came here in like July after Ihnen got hurt. Go through and see who was available then. The list was small and he was a body at that point. Whether Freeman would've been that much better? He wouldn't have played over TT and didn't do play a ton at Pacific either. His defensive lapses and slowness on ball screens wouldn't have rolled with this staff.

 

[cjbfbp]

I get that, but its seems like FAR less of a priority. That was more my point. After how much we got dominated on the boards/post I dont think putting it totally on the back burner is a great idea unless you know you have someone locked up.

You're exactly right. There probably are 250 guards or more in the portal who could perform as well collectively as Stephens, Loewe, and Sutherlin did this past season (far fewer who could perform as well as Willis of course). Our guards last season collectively performed well enough. It's our front line that was terrible overall and the supply of competent players there is much thinner. I know we have Ihnen, Fox, and Payne but we definitely need an insurance player in case any of those guys don't pan out as well as hoped and if we get a player better than those guys, all the better.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I get that, but its seems like FAR less of a priority. That was more my point. After how much we got dominated on the boards/post I dont think putting it totally on the back burner is a great idea unless you know you have someone locked up.

Apparently we interpret what was said in the story very differently.

 

[Gopherfan84]

The only front court players I know that he recruited were the ones who were mentioned on here by various sources. Most of those weren't likely to come here either because they weren't going to continue their college careers or they had opportunities to go to better places. As Clint Eastwood famously said "A man's gotta know his limitations." Others like Rebraca and Greg Lee were reasonable targets that seemed to be in his wheelhouse. He just missed on them.

Eric Curry was not recruited by Ben to be the starting center. He was going to be a grad assistant but decided to play after Ihnen was hurt. He gave a valiant effort but he probably should have played backup minutes given his physical limitations. Daniels and Ogele should not have been here at all. He seemed to recruit Daniels early probably as a limited backup player. That was a mistake. In an environment of uncertainty you don't assume that most minutes of the game will be handled by better players and all you'll need this guy for is 4 to 8 minutes a game.

I could spend a great deal of time going through big men in the 2021 portal who went to lesser programs than ours and explain why I think they would have been better than the two we settled on. That would be a waste of my time because, if you're like most people who post here, you wouldn't pay any attention to that. When I read something like this:

"I'd like to know who you think we didn't recruit that would've been the game changer"

I know you're not serious and don't care to know the answer anyway. Go through the 2021 portal yourself on Verbal Commits if you're really interested on discovering who likely would have been better than Daniels and Ogele. It's easily sortable by size.

Off the top of my head, we recruited:

Garcia
Rebracca
Manley
Mitchell
John
Miller
Fox

From our own team:
Johnson
Ihnen

I guarantee you that list was longer than what I could just think of off the top of my head. Again feel free to go after not landing them, but it's not like he didn't go after a large list. We don't know the ones he called on and was just told no thanks once they heard "Minnesota". You can criticize Ben for a lot of things, but not working on the recruiting trail isn't one of them. That was my point more than who we could've gotten that was better.

 

[Gopherfan84]

You're exactly right. There probably are 250 guards or more in the portal who could perform as well collectively as Stephens, Loewe, and Sutherlin did this past season (far fewer who could perform as well as Willis of course). Our guards last season collectively performed well enough. It's our front line that was terrible overall and the supply of competent players there is much thinner. I know we have Ihnen, Fox, and Payne but we definitely need an insurance player in case any of those guys don't pan out as well as hoped and if we get a player better than those guys, all the better.

Maybe they know of one or two frontcourt guys who are going to be here already where as they don't have any guards locked up? Ben is a young/new HC, but he's not incompetent.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Maybe they know of one or two frontcourt guys who are going to be here already where as they don't have any guards locked up? Ben is a young/new HC, but he's not incompetent.

Come on now....it is a well established message board concept to assume the coach is incompetent and that we as fans know way more about things than the coaches.

Have said it before, it never ceases to amaze me how some fans will assume something is not happening just because there isn't information out about it that they can access.

 

[howieramone]

Yes, it's hard to make a very good living as a professional athlete. I think most people with any experience in life realize that.

There are a relatively small number of people making a good living at acting, directing, singing, writing and performing music, writing novels, plays, non-fiction, etc.as well; basically anything in the entertainment industry (which includes professional athletics). But, the surest way to not making a living in the entertainment industry is never to try. If all of the people in these positions stopped doing them after college and became accountants, actuaries, insurance underwriters, engineers, and pastry chefs instead, our lives would be much poorer for it.

In my experience, Insurance Underwriters make the world a better place to live.

 

[cjbfbp]

Off the top of my head, we recruited:

Garcia
Rebracca
Manley
Mitchell
John
Miller
Fox

From our own team:
Johnson
Ihnen

I guarantee you that list was longer than what I could just think of off the top of my head. Again feel free to go after not landing them, but it's not like he didn't go after a large list. We don't know the ones he called on and was just told no thanks once they heard "Minnesota". You can criticize Ben for a lot of things, but not working on the recruiting trail isn't one of them. That was my point more than who we could've gotten that was better.

There were some others reported: Off the top of my head, I can think of Chris Vogt (who went with Wisconsin) and Greg Lee (who went with Penn State).

The relevant question is: Who could we have gotten who was better than Daniels and Ogele? I could come up with more than a few players who were still in the portal in latter summer who likely, based on their histories and subsequent performances, would have done better and they went to lesser programs than ours.

Mitchell and Manley entered their names into the draft. When you hear that, you keep looking and take someone over them if that person is willing to commit. Miller was another "wait and see." You keep looking. John and Garcia were never coming here. If you wait on players like this, you can end up goose-egged. That's how you end up with Ogele.

Let's be very clear: NO COACH GETS (OR DESERVES) ANY CREDIT FOR THE PLAYERS HE OFFERS. Just like no one gets credit for deals they initiate but don't close. If you're not closing any acceptable deals, then you're doing something wrong and the most likely explanation is that you're not targeting the right people. Coaches at this level have to deliver results. That's why they're paid so much. Don't ask us "What could he have done better?" That's for him to figure out. If he doesn't, he'll be gone in due time.

 

[cjbfbp]

In my experience, Insurance Underwriters make the world a better place to live.

I wasn't knocking those fields. In fact, I work in a field related to one of them.

The point is that trying to make a living in an entertainment field is very risky but the people who persevere despite the odds have guts and provide us with a lot of entertainment if they make it. We should be happy that they do what they do.

 

[Gopherfan84]

There were some others reported: Off the top of my head, I can think of Chris Vogt (who went with Wisconsin) and Greg Lee (who went with Penn State).

The relevant question is: Who could we have gotten who was better than Daniels and Ogele? I could come up with more than a few players who were still in the portal in latter summer who likely, based on their histories and subsequent performances, would have done better and they went to lesser programs than ours.

Mitchell and Manley entered their names into the draft. When you hear that, you keep looking and take someone over them if that person is willing to commit. Miller was another "wait and see." You keep looking. John and Garcia were never coming here. If you wait on players like this, you can end up goose-egged. That's how you end up with Ogele.

Let's be very clear: NO COACH GETS (OR DESERVES) ANY CREDIT FOR THE PLAYERS HE OFFERS. Just like no one gets credit for deals they initiate but don't close. If you're not closing any acceptable deals, then you're doing something wrong and the most likely explanation is that you're not targeting the right people. Coaches at this level have to deliver results. That's why they're paid so much. Don't ask us "What could he have done better?" That's for him to figure out. If he doesn't, he'll be gone in due time.

Your two relevant questions had nothing to do with what I said. I was responding to you saying we didn't go after or recruit guys. We did and they said no. That's the fair critique imo, not the statement that they didn't go after guys. I don't know where so many posters get this idea that people are ok with him missing on the frontcourt guys or saying he isn't at fault. No one is saying that. Some are explaining why it happened and are in wait and see mode, but no one is saying he is fault free for the frontcourt misses.

 

[cjbfbp]

Maybe they know of one or two frontcourt guys who are going to be here already where as they don't have any guards locked up? Ben is a young/new HC, but he's not incompetent.

Yeah, I think they thought they had some front court guys locked up last year as well. Hope for the best but expect the worst and plan accordingly.