2019-2020 Minnesota Twins Off-Season Thread

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The issue is one of workload. Buzz from Twins' beat writers is that the Twins front office believes Graterol will never be able to handle the work-load of a starting pitcher - meaning that he is destined for the bullpen. And, there are fears that his delivery makes him more susceptible to future shoulder or arm problems. Under this line of thinking, Graterol will always be dealing with pitch and innings limits.

Apparently, Red Sox ran through his medicals, and came to the same conclusion. Problem is - Sox traded for him thinking he was going to be a starter. they want a starter, not a bullpen guy. So, the whole deal is up in the air. Sox allegedly asking Twins for more or different players.

So, either Twins sweeten the deal, or the entire deal is off.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
The issue is one of workload. Buzz from Twins' beat writers is that the Twins front office believes Graterol will never be able to handle the work-load of a starting pitcher - meaning that he is destined for the bullpen. And, there are fears that his delivery makes him more susceptible to future shoulder or arm problems. Under this line of thinking, Graterol will always be dealing with pitch and innings limits.

Apparently, Red Sox ran through his medicals, and came to the same conclusion. Problem is - Sox traded for him thinking he was going to be a starter. they want a starter, not a bullpen guy. So, the whole deal is up in the air. Sox allegedly asking Twins for more or different players.

So, either Twins sweeten the deal, or the entire deal is off.
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I'd call their bluff. They need the $40 million off their payroll. Are they willing to spike the whole deal over this? Toss in a 20-30 prospect and call it good.
 

I've seen a lot of people suggest that the Dodgers should be the ones throwing in something extra since they have the most to lose if this falls through. I would certainly try if it were me.
 

This is ridiculous. The Red Sox want Graterol, plus another Twins Top 10 prospect. For a decent #3 starter. Run away right now. Let the Dodgers and Sox bicker amongst themselves and find another starer elsewhere. This is silly.
 

Prospects are just prospects, the Twins should have given more of them up in trades in the past. Then maybe we would't have lost our last 16 postseason games.

Maeda helps the Twins rotation quite a bit. They need to get it done.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Prospects are just prospects, the Twins should have given more of them up in trades in the past. Then maybe we would't have lost our last 16 postseason games.

Maeda helps the Twins rotation quite a bit. They need to get it done.
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Not for two top 10 prospects. The Dodgers have the most to lose, they should sweeten the deal, not the Twins.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Prospects are just prospects, the Twins should have given more of them up in trades in the past. Then maybe we would't have lost our last 16 postseason games.

Maeda helps the Twins rotation quite a bit. They need to get it done.
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The trade is fair and the Red Sox were surprised by the blow back and are trying to back out. No way am I giving up two top 10 prospects for a 32 year old pitcher with a 4.00 ERA.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Not for two top 10 prospects. The Dodgers have the most to lose, they should sweeten the deal, not the Twins.
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I don't disagree that the Dodgers should give up more. And I'm not a big fan of giving up a top 10 prospect either, but I'm fine with someone in the 10-15 range. We seem to have an endless supply of outfielders. Go back and look at how many top 10, or 'can't miss' prospects end up being complete busts. How many of those have helped us win playoff games over the past 15 years?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't disagree that the Dodgers should give up more. And I'm not a big fan of giving up a top 10 prospect either, but I'm fine with someone in the 10-15 range. We seem to have an endless supply of outfielders. Go back and look at how many top 10, or 'can't miss' prospects end up being complete busts.
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I'm fine trading two top 10 or top 15 prospects. Just not for Maeda. We can aim higher if we're paying that price. Go get Jon Gray and tell the Red Sox to shove it and enjoy paying a huge luxury tax.
 



howeda7 said:
I'm fine trading two top 10 or top 15 prospects. Just not for Maeda. We can aim higher if we're paying that price. Go get Jon Gray and tell the Red Sox to shove it and enjoy paying a huge luxury tax.
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Easier said than done. I also think you're underrating Maeda. Weren't Odorizzi and Ervin Santana career 4.00 ERA guys when we picked them up too?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Easier said than done. I also think you're underrating Maeda. Weren't Odorizzi and Ervin Santana career 4.00 ERA guys when we picked them up too?
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I wouldn't trade two top 10 prospects for either of them in their prime either.
 

howeda7 said:
I wouldn't trade two top 10 prospects for either of them in their prime either.
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Like I said, I'm good with another prospect in the 10-15 range. Can we even consider Graterol a top 10 prospect anymore? He's not going to be a starter, and has multiple arm issues that have obviously scared the Twins and now other teams off.

You would have never thought Santana and Odorizzi would have had the season's they did either. And where would have those teams been without them?

The Twins hold onto their prospects as tightly as anyone. That has led them to setting a record for consecutive playoff losses. It's time they start making bigger moves because this team isn't that far away.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Like I said, I'm good with another prospect in the 10-15 range. Can we even consider Graterol a top 10 prospect anymore? He's not going to be a starter, and has multiple arm issues that have obviously scared the Twins and now other teams off.

You would have never thought Santana and Odorizzi would have had the season's they did either. And where would have those teams been without them?

The Twins hold onto their prospects as tightly as anyone. That has led them to setting a record for consecutive playoff losses. It's time they start making bigger moves because this team isn't that far away.
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Graterol is still our #3 prospect and a top 100 prospect in all of baseball. Him for Maeda is a fair trade. Again, I'm actually in favor of making a bigger trad with multiple prospects. Just not for this guy.

Plus the whole thing reeks. They agreed to it and now are trying to change the deal. Nothing in Graterol's medical history was a secret nor was the fact that the Twins were moving him to the bullpen. Boston's FO is either inept or shady.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
Like I said, I'm good with another prospect in the 10-15 range. Can we even consider Graterol a top 10 prospect anymore? He's not going to be a starter, and has multiple arm issues that have obviously scared the Twins and now other teams off.

You would have never thought Santana and Odorizzi would have had the season's they did either. And where would have those teams been without them?

The Twins hold onto their prospects as tightly as anyone. That has led them to setting a record for consecutive playoff losses. It's time they start making bigger moves because this team isn't that far away.
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Kenta Maeda is a fine pitcher. He is not a "bigger move".
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't disagree that the Dodgers should give up more. And I'm not a big fan of giving up a top 10 prospect either, but I'm fine with someone in the 10-15 range. We seem to have an endless supply of outfielders. Go back and look at how many top 10, or 'can't miss' prospects end up being complete busts. How many of those have helped us win playoff games over the past 15 years?
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At the same time we don't know what the Red Sox are really asking for. It could be they want two pitching prospects.
 

Well, according to LaVelle Neal of the Strib, it sounds like the Twins are pulling out of the deal. According to the article, the Twins are not willing to pay what the Red Sox want, so at this point, it sounds like the Twins are going to keep Graterol.

Now, what that does to the rest of the deal, I have no idea.

Bottom line, the Twins' biggest need is in the starting rotation. The rotation would have been stronger with Maeda. Now, the Twins are back to crossing their fingers that one of the rookies can hold down the fort until Pineda and Hill are available.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Well, according to LaVelle Neal of the Strib, it sounds like the Twins are pulling out of the deal. According to the article, the Twins are not willing to pay what the Red Sox want, so at this point, it sounds like the Twins are going to keep Graterol.

Now, what that does to the rest of the deal, I have no idea.

Bottom line, the Twins' biggest need is in the starting rotation. The rotation would have been stronger with Maeda. Now, the Twins are back to crossing their fingers that one of the rookies can hold down the fort until Pineda and Hill are available.
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I have to think it will all be worked out in the end and the deal will happen.
 


howeda7 said:
The Betts portion will still happen. I don't think the Twins will be involved.
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As a Dodger fan I really hope so, but I still have a feeling the Twins will get back into it. Nothing more than a hunch.
 


Looks like you guys got your wish and the Twins backed out. The Twins desperately need another starter, and Maeda would have helped a lot. Their rotation is still pathetic and not one of a contender.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Looks like you guys got your wish and the Twins backed out. The Twins desperately need another starter, and Maeda would have helped a lot. Their rotation is still pathetic and not one of a contender.
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Agree completely
 

I'm fine with the twins backing out of this deal. If they are going to trade multiple top prospects we need somethign more than a guy that would have been a 3 on our already pedestrian pitching staff. We have prospects to trade, go get someone.
 

bottlebass said:
I'm fine with the twins backing out of this deal. If they are going to trade multiple top prospects we need somethign more than a guy that would have been a 3 on our already pedestrian pitching staff. We have prospects to trade, go get someone.
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That's the problem, who are they going to find now that's better than Maeda? He's an upgrade over Gibson who was our 3 last year.

I think it's unlikely we'll find a better option before the season. Then we're stuck waiting until closer to the deadline, when everyone is looking for pitching, and the price gets even higher.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That's the problem, who are they going to find now that's better than Maeda? He's an upgrade over Gibson who was our 3 last year.

I think it's unlikely we'll find a better option before the season. Then we're stuck waiting until closer to the deadline, when everyone is looking for pitching, and the price gets even higher.
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Listen to yourself getting excited over a possible #3 guy in our rotation. I'm not worried about the regular season. With our line up we'll be just fine with our rotation during the regular season. This team needs someone who can start a game in yankee stadium and win. Or what's the point of talking about the team at all? Maeda isn't that guy.
 

bottlebass said:
Listen to yourself getting excited over a possible #3 guy in our rotation. I'm not worried about the regular season. With our line up we'll be just fine with our rotation during the regular season. This team needs someone who can start a game in yankee stadium and win. Or what's the point of talking about the team at all? Maeda isn't that guy.
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Because sadly the Twins have a long history of failing to give up anyone for even a #3 pitcher. And right now our starting staff consists of a 2, 3 and a bunch of castoffs.

It will take a repeat of a historic offense, and Odorizzi to pitch above his career averages again, to stay in playoff contention during the regular season. Maybe you're more optimistic that's easily attainable than I am.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Because sadly the Twins have a long history of failing to give up anyone for even a #3 pitcher. And right now our starting staff consists of a 2, 3 and a bunch of castoffs.

It will take a repeat of a historic offense, and Odorizzi to pitch above his career averages again, to stay in playoff contention during the regular season. Maybe you're more optimistic that's easily attainable than I am.
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Well they improved their offense. So I am optimistic about their offense. I'm just not as optimistic about a potential #3 starter they traded for who would be coming from the NL. The only chance this team has is to trade for a legit 1-2 type of pitcher that would be a 1-2 on any staff, not just ours. Otherwise it will be a fun regular season again and a very quick post season again.

I don't thin you and I are too far off on our thinking I just dn't think I'm explaining it well. This trade is just a meh for me. I'm glad they didn't waste 2 top prospects on a meh trade. Go ahead and trade 3 top prospects on a pitcher that will make a difference, I don't care but why waste them on one who won't make a difference?
 


And for the record Idon't think winning the division is something people should be taking for grated at this point. Cleveland is still good and the white sox got significantly better.
 

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