2014 Golden Gopher prediction !!!!! 9-3 season?

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dpodoll68 said:
You can't compare college and professional sports in this regard. Professional sports try to legislate as much parity into the game as possible. Major college sports are inherently almost entirely lacking parity (scholarship limits, practice hour limits, etc. being the few attempts to inject parity) and it's very tough to move up and down in the "caste system" in major college football due to the large roster sizes and the amount of recruiting/momentum/time needed to do so. Teams go from worst to first all the time in pro sports. That almost never happens in college.
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See: Nebraska basketball, Michigan basketball, Auburn football, Michigan State football...
 



mcal24 said:
You said worst to first never happens in college, so I quickly thought of a few examples of bottom tier teams going to the top in just a year or two.
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If you want to completely misquote me and make things up, be my guest.

Auburn is the only accurate one you stated. You got one. I said "almost never". I guess one doesn't equal almost never.
 

mcal24 said:
You said worst to first never happens in college, so I quickly thought of a few examples of bottom tier teams going to the top in just a year or two.
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Not to mention many of those programs have a rich history of success rather recently and are considered premier programs (Auburn FB and Michigan BB). Nebraska basketball has had a good season but is only 4th in the conference. If that's somehow a HUGE success then you've officially set the bar low as well and you're not really arguing at all with dp.
 


maroonedinCA said:
Not to mention many of those programs have a rich history of success rather recently and are considered premier programs (Auburn FB and Michigan BB). Nebraska basketball has had a good season but is only 4th in the conference. If that's somehow a HUGE success then you've officially set the bar low as well and you're not really arguing at all with dp.
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Michigan went 14 years without a tournament appearance. Michigan State completely turned it around in football. I didn't think he literally meant "first" when he said worst to first, more of just a dramatic turn-around. Maybe I misunderstood. Anyway, I'm sure I could find plenty others than pulled huge turnarounds if I wanted to look.

When did being a premier program have anything to do with this by the way?
 


afurry91 said:
Nebraska went from 9th to 4th. Hardly worst to first...
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They went from 5-13 to 11-7. You don't see much more dramatic turnarounds in one year then that in college sports or pro sports (although I'm sure there have been a few).
 




mcal24 said:
I didn't think he literally meant "first" when he said worst to first
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Of course I meant it literally. How else would I mean it?

mcal24 said:
Here's a bunch of college football teams that have done it. You can also throw Duke onto that list from 2012 to 2013.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...t-the-biggest-one-year-turnarounds-in-history

And college basketball.
http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/turnarounds_ncaa_basketball/

I think it happens a lot more than you guys think.
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Many (most?) of the teams on both lists were not actually worst-to-first, even though the football one actually (erroneously) includes that in the title.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Of course I meant it literally. How else would I mean it?



Many (most?) of the teams on both lists were not actually worst-to-first, even though the football one actually (erroneously) includes that in the title.
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So can you find me this giant list of pro sports teams that went from dead last to first in their conference?
 

dpodoll68 said:
Of course I meant it literally. How else would I mean it?

Many (most?) of the teams on both lists were not actually worst-to-first, even though the football one actually (erroneously) includes that in the title.
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I took a look at the basketball list, only three of the teams - 1999-00 LSU, 2000-01 Boston College and 2003-04 Texas-El Paso - were worst to first.
 

mcal24 said:
So can you find me this giant list of pro sports teams that went from dead last to first in their conference?
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Now you have done it mcal24! dpodoll can smell blood in the water and he is circling now.:rolleyes:
 



mcal24 said:
Michigan went 14 years without a tournament appearance. Michigan State completely turned it around in football. I didn't think he literally meant "first" when he said worst to first, more of just a dramatic turn-around. Maybe I misunderstood. Anyway, I'm sure I could find plenty others than pulled huge turnarounds if I wanted to look.

When did being a premier program have anything to do with this by the way?[/QUOTE]

Bold portion: Because it makes turning it around that much easier. You sell on tradition, fan base, facilities that are likely in place all because of previous success. You can't compare Auburn's down period to ours. They won the national championship all but 3 years ago. Michigan basketball still has cache due to the Fab 5 and the Michigan brand. MSU 'turned it around' from relatively normal 7-5 seasons and gradually built it up to the point that they've won 11 games or more more often then not this current decade. Hardly a miraculous worst to first that you seem to be pointing out. Name one of those situations thats even remotely close to what the Gophers have.
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mcal24 said:
So can you find me this giant list of pro sports teams that went from dead last to first in their conference?
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Hasn't this been the case in the NFC South for many of the previous years? The Eagles last year. The Washington Redskins the year before that. The Twins and Braves in 91.
 

maroonedinCA said:
Hasn't this been the case in the NFC South for many of the previous years? The Eagles last year. The Washington Redskins the year before that. The Twins and Braves in 91.
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It's easier to move from worst to first when you're dealing with divisions that have less teams.
 

mcal24 said:
So can you find me this giant list of pro sports teams that went from dead last to first in their conference?
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http://thebiglead.com/2013/08/14/nfl-worst-to-first-streak-at-10-years-who-will-it-be-in-2013/
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...-lead-worsttofirst-candidates-for-2014-season
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2014/...eep-nfls-worst-to-first-streak-alive-in-2014/

NFL - at least one (and as many as 3) has gone worst-to-first every season from 2003-present (11 consecutive years and counting)

http://www.profootballresearchers.org/Coffin_Corner/19-06-725.pdf

NFL - happened 14 times in 30 years from 1967-1997

http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/news/a...61302802&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

MLB - 11 times in past 24 seasons
 

RodentRampage said:
It's easier to move from worst to first when you're dealing with divisions that have less teams.
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If you don't agree that the pro sports leagues are set up to better produce parity than I don't know what to think anymore. The basic premise of the draft, the foundation of the league, is to result in greater parity. How people don't believe this is inconceivable to me.
 

dpodoll68 said:
http://thebiglead.com/2013/08/14/nfl-worst-to-first-streak-at-10-years-who-will-it-be-in-2013/
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...-lead-worsttofirst-candidates-for-2014-season
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2014/...eep-nfls-worst-to-first-streak-alive-in-2014/

NFL - at least one (and as many as 3) has gone worst-to-first every season from 2003-present (11 consecutive years and counting)

http://www.profootballresearchers.org/Coffin_Corner/19-06-725.pdf

NFL - happened 14 times in 30 years from 1967-1997

http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/news/a...61302802&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

MLB - 11 times in past 24 seasons
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I would say a 4 team division is quite different than a 10-15 team conference, wouldn't you?
 

mcal24 said:
I would say a 4 team division is quite different than a 10-15 team conference, wouldn't you?
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What are you arguing, exactly? So in your estimation is it just as easy for the Gophers to rise up and become Ohio State than it is for the Vikings to rise up and pass Green Bay? Seriously, that's delusional.
 

mcal24 said:
I would say a 4 team division is quite different than a 10-15 team conference, wouldn't you?
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Yes. One has 4 teams, and the other has between 10 and 15. Further, one is called a "division", while the other is called a "conference".
 

I'm arguing the original point that you "almost never" see college teams go worst to first and that pro teams are much more likely to do it. I still don't see how, I haven't heard of a pro team going from dead last in their conference to first and I named multiple examples of college teams doing this.

Plus, college loses 1/4 of their players yearly, so it is much easier to turn around quicker.
 

mcal24 said:
I'm arguing the original point that you "almost never" see college teams go worst to first and that pro teams are much more likely to do it. I still don't see how, I haven't heard of a pro team going from dead last in their conference to first and I named multiple examples of college teams doing this.

Plus, college loses 1/4 of their players yearly, so it is much easier to turn around quicker.
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I gave you two, in the same season: Twins and Braves.

Plus colleges that are traditionally great continue to bring in 1/4 of their players that are ranked higher than the non-traditional schools. Take a look at the recruiting rankings and with a few exceptions, it's the cream of the crop up there. You're absolutely incorrect in believing that turning around a pro team is harder than turning around a college team that doesn't have the prestige/history/etc. Also, why is your standard hurdle to climb so much smaller than you're forcing me and dp to live by? MSU going from 'worst to first' in your estimation is middle of the road B1G to winning the B1G (and RB) while we need to not only prove divisional turnarounds but now have to jump 15 teams. So your examples should mean something when they don't even meet your own criteria. Got it.
 

maroonedinCA said:
I gave you two, in the same season: Twins and Braves.

Plus colleges that are traditionally great continue to bring in 1/4 of their players that are ranked higher than the non-traditional schools. Take a look at the recruiting rankings and with a few exceptions, it's the cream of the crop up there. You're absolutely incorrect in believing that turning around a pro team is harder than turning around a college team that doesn't have the prestige/history/etc. Also, why is your standard hurdle to climb so much smaller than you're forcing me and dp to live by? MSU going from 'worst to first' in your estimation is middle of the road B1G to winning the B1G (and RB) while we need to not only prove divisional turnarounds but now have to jump 15 teams. So your examples should mean something when they don't even meet your own criteria. Got it.
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I gave you some that went last to first too... You must not have caught that
 

mcal24 said:
I gave you some that went last to first too... You must not have caught that
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Yep, I did miss that. And the list of NCAA FB teams that you linked to did not all go from worst to first (far from it, even) and additionally, with nearly 120 Division 1 teams there are going to be some examples of this occuring. But, because you're so quick, you realize that the only way to compare this fairly would be relative to the number of total teams.
 

maroonedinCA said:
Yep, I did miss that. And the list of NCAA FB teams that you linked to did not all go from worst to first (far from it, even) and additionally, with nearly 120 Division 1 teams there are going to be some examples of this occuring. But, because you're so quick, you realize that the only way to compare this fairly would be relative to the number of total teams.
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Alright, we can do that as well. You gave me 2 examples of this in pro sports in the past 20 years. Not to mention that there are 30 teams across at least 4 major sports, but you probably realized that as well.

I just don't see how you can say it is harder to go from first to last in pro sports as compared to college sports. Maybe it's even, I don't know.
 

What happened to this thread?
/Looks back at posters
/Now I understand
 

Spoofin said:
What happened to this thread?
/Looks back at posters
/Now I understand
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Haha but anyway we're going to go 9-3 next year. Which seems like the most likely upset: @Nebraska, @Wisconsin, @Michigan, or Ohio State?
 

mcal24 and a few others, you are missing the point. dpodoll is saying that it is very hard for a program to go to from irrelevance every year to national powerhouse. There are examples in college sports like Duke Basketball or Stanford football where they have gone from zero relevance f to helmet school or blue blood where they clearly shouldn't' be and don't have the resources to compete at that level but they found a way to miraculously pull it off. He is saying that that doesn't happen nearly as often at college as it does in the pros where there is a draft that provides an equalizer where the worst teams get the best players and the best teams get the worst players. Also most of the facilities and revenue are pretty equal as well while in college the best recruits go to the best teams and the worst go to the worst teams making it much more common to stay in you're place and not improve nor get worse. He isn't taking about one year where a team like Auburn goes from 3-9 to 12-2 where they had mostly the same players for both year.
 

mcal24 said:
Haha but anyway we're going to go 9-3 next year. Which seems like the most likely upset: @Nebraska, @Wisconsin, @Michigan, or Ohio State?
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@michigan wouldn't really be an upset. we had a better record, better conference record and return more guys for next year.
1. Michigan
2. Nebraska, They are soft in the front 7 and it is a good matchup for us. We showed that we can beat them this year, why would next year be any different?
3. Wisconsin. They lose a ton of guys so i think this game can go either way as well.
4. OSU. Just the most talented roster and the most successful team and program last year. I do think there is a remote chance that we could beat them.
 

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