$200: the final straw for this Gopher alum & lifelong fan

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Panthadad2 said:
Minnesota at least holds its own in football revenues but is getting outclassed in pretty much every other revenue category per EADA data.

Other schools somehow bring in multiple millions in most "non-revenue" sports whereas MN only tops $1M in hockey and volleyball. Donations? Accounting differences?

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Bold has to explain it.

Guessing Minnesota (and most schools?) are putting at least 90% of the check that comes from the Big Ten into "Football revenue". Which isn't wrong by any means ... it's money that mostly comes from the conference TV deal (mostly football), CFP TV deal, and bowl games.


And obviously we aren't matching Iowa/Neb/Wisc in football ticket revenue (or I would shocked if we were somehow doing it ... via higher prices?). And does the athletic department even get to claim money related to football gameday parking and stadium concessions??
 

Burns said recently on a podcast that Iowa & WI pull in about 70 million per year in football from ticket sales and NIL vs. MN at round 45 million. That is a huge hill to climb and probably never will because of all the pro sports competition the Gophers have.
 

PMWinSTP said:
A little apples to oranges...as has been pointed out numerous times, those all are the big sports attractions in town, to the extreme for Iowa and Nebby since there is no pro football or basketball in the entire state.
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Agree 100% that will always be a thorn in our side, but we still have to figure out a way to make up the difference somehow (not saying that you were claiming we didn't have to try, or anything like that)
 

That's obviously the other thing we can do, is try to save money as opposed to generate new revenue.

For example, cutting baseball.
 


SeaBee_Gopher said:
Burns said recently on a podcast that Iowa & WI pull in about 70 million per year in football from ticket sales and NIL vs. MN at round 45 million. That is a huge hill to climb and probably never will because of all the pro sports competition the Gophers have.
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22000 (difference in our attendance vs iowa in 2024)*50(lowest ticket price for conf is 70, non con is 30)*7 (home games) and just this amount is a rapid 7.7mil for stadium size/capacity in terms of immediate revenue (plus add concessions/sales, etc). The numbers vs WI are even worse with them averaging about 30k more fans.

Obviously they sell many tickets for more than that but you're immediately getting smacked just in terms of capacity differences off the get go. If those tickets average say 100, you're not going to compete from that difference in revenue stream over the long haul unless you make up for a ton elsewhere in terms of donations.
 

upnorthkid said:
22000 (difference in our attendance vs iowa in 2024)*50(lowest ticket price for conf is 70, non con is 30)*7 (home games) and just this amount is a rapid 7.7mil for stadium size/capacity in terms of immediate revenue (plus add concessions/sales, etc). The numbers vs WI are even worse with them averaging about 30k more fans.

Obviously they sell many tickets for more than that but you're immediately getting smacked just in terms of capacity differences off the get go. If those tickets average say 100, you're not going to compete from that difference in revenue stream over the long haul unless you make up for a ton elsewhere in terms of donations.
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Good points on the math. I suppose this just illustrates you can't please everyone when you don't have enough to go around.
 

Word said:
Your Hawkeyes are the only game in the state of Iowa. It's just a different situation. Don't want to rehash the attendance argument though. Even the Twins and Timberwolves have ticket promotions. T-wolves actually gave me free tickets last year for 1 game and $10 tickets for another.
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That's a loser's mentality. There are more people in the metro than the entire state of Iowa and nearly twice as many than the entire state of Nebraska, and Iowa City and Lincoln are in cities a mere fraction of the size of the metro. Big league sports competition had no effect on MBB attendance or ticket demand when MBB was competitive and relevant.
 

swede2 said:
That's a loser's mentality. There are more people in the metro than the entire state of Iowa and nearly twice as many than the entire state of Nebraska, and Iowa City and Lincoln are in cities a mere fraction of the size of the metro. Big league sports competition had no effect on MBB attendance or ticket demand when MBB was competitive and relevant.
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The counter to this is that, in Lincoln, even though they are a mere fraction of our size as you say, is that 99.9% of the people there care about Nebraska football.

Our population doesn't scale nearly that well, so even though we have a lot more people, we probably have less overall Gopher fans than they do Husker fans.

...and that's before getting into the details of all the things you can spend money on here that they don't have to consider.

As for the men's bb comment, even if we have a team we think can make the Elite 8, you're still talking about getting 15,000 or so fans to a game. Plus, and I'm not gonna look it up, but how were the wolves doing at the time we packed our bb arena? Right now the vikes are pretty hot and getting lots of attention.
 



GopherTheJugular said:
The counter to this is that, in Lincoln, even though they are a mere fraction of our size as you say, is that 99.9% of the people there care about Nebraska football.

Our population doesn't scale nearly that well, so even though we have a lot more people, we probably have less overall Gopher fans than they do Husker fans.

...and that's before getting into the details of all the things you can spend money on here that they don't have to consider.

As for the men's bb comment, even if we have a team we think can make the Elite 8, you're still talking about getting 15,000 or so fans to a game. Plus, and I'm not gonna look it up, but how were the wolves doing at the time we packed our bb arena? Right now the vikes are pretty hot and getting lots of attention.
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I don't mean to imply that having big league sports in town doesn't have some effect on the interest in Gopher sports but I think the bigger issue is that our teams are largely irrelevant. The reality, though, is that even where there isn't in town competition, irrelevancy begets empty stadiums and arenas and winning and relevancy fills the same. We don't sell out our small stadium because we haven't been relevant during most of our lifetimes. We used to sell out the barn during most of our lifetimes because we were relevant. Hockey is relevant nationally and sells out 3M, recent attendance issues duly noted. People love a winner and even if not a winner, they are at least optimistic and have the hope of a winner and relevancy. If we had consistent winners and the fans believed our teams could be relevant, they would show up. The same mindset applied to the big leagues (the NFL might be the outlier although I'm old enough to remember a few Sunday blackouts and Sid Hartman appealing to the business community to buy up blocks of tickets at a discount). Look no further than the ghost town at Target Field. But I doubt too many of those fans are taking their entertainment dollars down the street and taking in a spoken word event at the Orpheum.
 

swede2 said:
That's a loser's mentality. There are more people in the metro than the entire state of Iowa and nearly twice as many than the entire state of Nebraska, and Iowa City and Lincoln are in cities a mere fraction of the size of the metro. Big league sports competition had no effect on MBB attendance or ticket demand when MBB was competitive and relevant.
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It's easy to draw when you're good. The difference is when you're not. People won't pay good $$ for bad product when they have other choices. Nebraska football can suck for 20 years and they'll still sell out every game. Iowa is nearly the same.
 

SeaBee_Gopher said:
Burns said recently on a podcast that Iowa & WI pull in about 70 million per year in football from ticket sales and NIL vs. MN at round 45 million. That is a huge hill to climb and probably never will because of all the pro sports competition the Gophers have.
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This town just needs a few more 2019 seasons.
We are starved for winners here. If you win, the fans will come. 8 win seasons are just not enough to win the city over in a meaningful way.

The Wolves show that if you contend, you will fill the arena fast, even if you have historically been an also-ran in the market.
 

Mr. 131 said:
This town just needs a few more 2019 seasons.
We are starved for winners here. If you win, the fans will come. 8 win seasons are just not enough to win the city over in a meaningful way.

The Wolves show that if you contend, you will fill the arena fast, even if you have historically been an also-ran in the market.
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Yet even the Wolves gave me free tickets this past season. Attendance is definitely better though.
 



swede2 said:
I don't mean to imply that having big league sports in town doesn't have some effect on the interest in Gopher sports but I think the bigger issue is that our teams are largely irrelevant. The reality, though, is that even where there isn't in town competition, irrelevancy begets empty stadiums and arenas and winning and relevancy fills the same. We don't sell out our small stadium because we haven't been relevant during most of our lifetimes. We used to sell out the barn during most of our lifetimes because we were relevant. Hockey is relevant nationally and sells out 3M, recent attendance issues duly noted. People love a winner and even if not a winner, they are at least optimistic and have the hope of a winner and relevancy. If we had consistent winners and the fans believed our teams could be relevant, they would show up. The same mindset applied to the big leagues (the NFL might be the outlier although I'm old enough to remember a few Sunday blackouts and Sid Hartman appealing to the business community to buy up blocks of tickets at a discount). Look no further than the ghost town at Target Field. But I doubt too many of those fans are taking their entertainment dollars down the street and taking in a spoken word event at the Orpheum.
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Haven't been to the Orpheum, but I'm a Twins season ticket holder and have been dumping my Twins tickets and going to more MN United games. Lots of options of where to spend my money.
 


howeda7 said:
It's easy to draw when you're good. The difference is when you're not. People won't pay good $$ for bad product when they have other choices. Nebraska football can suck for 20 years and they'll still sell out every game. Iowa is nearly the same.
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Bold: have seen this excuse often, and can't figure out how it's supposed to hold water.

In the fall ..... what are these other choices you speak of??

The Vikings. That's it for major football. And going to those games is $$$$$$. And a good number of those folks wouldn't be Gophers even if there were no Vikings. They're from out of state and are loyal to other schools.

So then, what else? That they can't do in Omaha or Des Moines. (Decent number of Omaha folks probably go down for some Chiefs games, to boot)
 

Word said:
Haven't been to the Orpheum, but I'm a Twins season ticket holder and have been dumping my Twins tickets and going to more MN United games. Lots of options of where to spend my money.
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In the fall. What else?

Twins goes into early fall. They're terrible

OK the Loons. Regular season extends into the mid-fall, sure. So you're saying we're losing college football fans ... to pro soccer? With a 20k stadium and plenty of season ticket holders already?
 

GopherGrit said:
Bold: have seen this excuse often, and can't figure out how it's supposed to hold water.

In the fall ..... what are these other choices you speak of??

The Vikings. That's it for major football. And going to those games is $$$$$$. And a good number of those folks wouldn't be Gophers even if there were no Vikings. They're from out of state and are loyal to other schools.

So then, what else? That they can't do in Omaha or Des Moines. (Decent number of Omaha folks probably go down for some Chiefs games, to boot)
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I'm not sure what part of the state you live in, but I'm in the heart of Mpls and I can tell you there are plenty of things to do besides vikings football. And not everyone is a sports fan either.

But if you don't acknowledge that Mpls has lots to offer that Omaha and Des Moines don't, then I would suggest google. Sure, you might look at some of the results and think "small potatoes" - but they all add up. And I'd say more people aren't football fans than are, just from the vibe I get being here.
 

GopherGrit said:
In the fall. What else?

Twins goes into early fall. They're terrible

OK the Loons. Regular season extends into the mid-fall, sure. So you're saying we're losing college football fans ... to pro soccer? With a 20k stadium and plenty of season ticket holders already?
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Think outside of sports.
 

People doing those things were never going to buy tickets to the Vikings or Gophers football.

And yes they have those things in Omaha and DM too. Those are not tiny towns.
 

My (worthless) diagnosis is that this was screwed up years and years ago, when they decided to have Gopher football leave campus and play in the Metrodome.

We're still a decade+ out from the 2nd generation of fans who (I mean the kids of the kids) who came back on campus and actually grew up caring about Gopher football.

Winning (or rather, not being bad) helps keep that momentum alive.
 

The difference between the Vikings and every other professional and college team in town (and this is somewhat true for the NFL as a whole) is that they've made the games into an event or a party. It's always been that way to some extent, but it really ramped up in the Randy Moss era, when the crowds got younger, wilder, drunker etc. I know people who don't go on vacations really, their discretionary income is spent on Vikings season tix and the revelry around the season.

You see this kind of thing at some major college programs, but I don't think it will ever happen here. The U would never promote it, and the campus being in the middle of the city doesn't lend itself to a tailgate culture.
 

disco said:
The difference between the Vikings and every other professional and college team in town (and this is somewhat true for the NFL as a whole) is that they've made the games into an event or a party. It's always been that way to some extent, but it really ramped up in the Randy Moss era, when the crowds got younger, wilder, drunker etc. I know people who don't go on vacations really, their discretionary income is spent on Vikings season tix and the revelry around the season.

You see this kind of thing at some major college programs, but I don't think it will ever happen here. The U would never promote it, and the campus being in the middle of the city doesn't lend itself to a tailgate culture.
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this. can't say i'd exactly want "that" at Gopher games, but its a wildly different atmosphere and fan grouping there vs the smaller quantities of them we have at gopher games. Used to live by Gold Medal Park and the number of obscenely drunk people doing stupid shit around game time (both young and old) and the party atmosphere pre and post game is vastly more well developed compared with anything else in town. People are also much more likely to travel from all over the state to come down for the Vikings as compared with the others as the NFL continues to be to biggest fish in every market pond.

I typically try get to some Big Ten games once or twice a year. You get some of that in Happy Valley (went to the white out so was a game they were up for), Michigan and OSU. Its still on a whole different level in the south from a cultural standpoint and more akin to the NFL. Places like Lincoln and Iowa City do have the whole city stop as well, the population is just lesser.
 

upnorthkid said:
this. can't say i'd exactly want "that" at Gopher games, but its a wildly different atmosphere and fan grouping there vs the smaller quantities of them we have at gopher games. Used to live by Gold Medal Park and the number of obscenely drunk people doing stupid shit around game time (both young and old) and the party atmosphere pre and post game is vastly more well developed compared with anything else in town. People are also much more likely to travel from all over the state to come down for the Vikings as compared with the others as the NFL continues to be to biggest fish in every market pond.

I typically try get to some Big Ten games once or twice a year. You get some of that in Happy Valley (went to the white out so was a game they were up for), Michigan and OSU. Its still on a whole different level in the south from a cultural standpoint and more akin to the NFL. Places like Lincoln and Iowa City do have the whole city stop as well, the population is just lesser.
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Viking fans average IQ is 38 points lower than Gopher fans. Tough to overcome that fact
 

upnorthkid said:
this. can't say i'd exactly want "that" at Gopher games, but its a wildly different atmosphere and fan grouping there vs the smaller quantities of them we have at gopher games. Used to live by Gold Medal Park and the number of obscenely drunk people doing stupid shit around game time (both young and old) and the party atmosphere pre and post game is vastly more well developed compared with anything else in town. People are also much more likely to travel from all over the state to come down for the Vikings as compared with the others as the NFL continues to be to biggest fish in every market pond.

I typically try get to some Big Ten games once or twice a year. You get some of that in Happy Valley (went to the white out so was a game they were up for), Michigan and OSU. Its still on a whole different level in the south from a cultural standpoint and more akin to the NFL. Places like Lincoln and Iowa City do have the whole city stop as well, the population is just lesser.
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In the 80s and 90s, a sellout for a Vikings game at the Metrodome was not a guarantee and GM and other businesses in town would buy up tickets at a steep discount to prevent local TV blackouts, although a few did occur. When I went to Vikings games as a kid, it was an older, button up under a sweater type of crowd that would go out for eggs benedict before the game at the Blue Plate. The atmosphere has completely flipped. Its a much younger, rowdier crowd and even when the team sucks, the stadium is full and loud. People pay $300 for nose bleeds.

I haven't been to TCF in a few years but the atmosphere reminded me then of the Vikings games in the late 80s. Older, more docile crowd. Likely to get mad if you stood up for more than a few fleeting seconds after a big play. When I had season tickets, I couldn't give them away, much less sell them to make a few bucks back.
 

disco said:
The difference between the Vikings and every other professional and college team in town (and this is somewhat true for the NFL as a whole) is that they've made the games into an event or a party. It's always been that way to some extent, but it really ramped up in the Randy Moss era, when the crowds got younger, wilder, drunker etc. I know people who don't go on vacations really, their discretionary income is spent on Vikings season tix and the revelry around the season.

You see this kind of thing at some major college programs, but I don't think it will ever happen here. The U would never promote it, and the campus being in the middle of the city doesn't lend itself to a tailgate culture.
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I know people that barely leave the county that make it a point to attend the international games.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
I'm not sure what part of the state you live in, but I'm in the heart of Mpls and I can tell you there are plenty of things to do besides vikings football. And not everyone is a sports fan either.

But if you don't acknowledge that Mpls has lots to offer that Omaha and Des Moines don't, then I would suggest google. Sure, you might look at some of the results and think "small potatoes" - but they all add up. And I'd say more people aren't football fans than are, just from the vibe I get being here.
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I've spent plenty of time in MSP and enough time in both Des Moines and Omaha and would dispute that. Des Moines is a metro of over 700,000 and Omaha nearly a million. Its really a matter of scale. For instance, MSP has 2 or 3 theatres that routinely host touring broadway shows while DM and O might only have one. But the same type of cultural amenities exist, just not in the same volume. Frankly, that's true for nearly any metro, large or small.

But the question is really, where are the people that could be filling seats at the U? I highly doubt those potential ticket buyers are looking at their entertainment dollars and thinking: "The Gophers are playing Rutgets this afternoon but are typically mid. I'm heading over to the Pantages to see "Saw, the Musical." I would doubt the extra 25,000 people attending games in Iowa City or Madison are thinking in the reverse: "The Huskers aren't very good but we don't have a pro soccer team in Nebraska so I'm going to the Husker game anyway."

As an aside, both Camp Randall and Memorial Stadium are reducing capacity, no doubt in part because of reduced demand. But I assume improved amenities might make the reductions revenue neutral.
 

swede2 said:
I've spent plenty of time in MSP and enough time in both Des Moines and Omaha and would dispute that. Des Moines is a metro of over 700,000 and Omaha nearly a million. Its really a matter of scale. For instance, MSP has 2 or 3 theatres that routinely host touring broadway shows while DM and O might only have one. But the same type of cultural amenities exist, just not in the same volume. Frankly, that's true for nearly any metro, large or small.

But the question is really, where are the people that could be filling seats at the U? I highly doubt those potential ticket buyers are looking at their entertainment dollars and thinking: "The Gophers are playing Rutgets this afternoon but are typically mid. I'm heading over to the Pantages to see "Saw, the Musical." I would doubt the extra 25,000 people attending games in Iowa City or Madison are thinking in the reverse: "The Huskers aren't very good but we don't have a pro soccer team in Nebraska so I'm going to the Husker game anyway."

As an aside, both Camp Randall and Memorial Stadium are reducing capacity, no doubt in part because of reduced demand. But I assume improved amenities might make the reductions revenue neutral.
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I think quite honestly, a big part of it too is people want to be outside, doing things, rather than watching a game for four hours, when the weather is nice in the late summer/fall, and there are more things to do outdoors here than in say, Iowa City or Lincoln.
 

swede2 said:
In the 80s and 90s, a sellout for a Vikings game at the Metrodome was not a guarantee and GM and other businesses in town would buy up tickets at a steep discount to prevent local TV blackouts, although a few did occur. When I went to Vikings games as a kid, it was an older, button up under a sweater type of crowd that would go out for eggs benedict before the game at the Blue Plate. The atmosphere has completely flipped. Its a much younger, rowdier crowd and even when the team sucks, the stadium is full and loud. People pay $300 for nose bleeds.

I haven't been to TCF in a few years but the atmosphere reminded me then of the Vikings games in the late 80s. Older, more docile crowd. Likely to get mad if you stood up for more than a few fleeting seconds after a big play. When I had season tickets, I couldn't give them away, much less sell them to make a few bucks back.
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You described it perfectly. While I have brought my kid to a few NFL games, I absolutely understand why people would not.
 

swede2 said:
I highly doubt those potential ticket buyers are looking at their entertainment dollars and thinking: "The Gophers are playing Rutgets this afternoon but are typically mid. I'm heading over to the Pantages to see "Saw, the Musical."
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I was more trying to point out that Mpls has lots of citizens that do the cultural stuff and have no interest in sports, so that might account for why we have a larger population but less revenue.

If people in Des Moines and Lincoln also go to art stuff, great. I just think the people walking around an art museum in Lincoln will also be Husker fans, whereas I wouldn't suspect too many people at art events in Mpls are Gopher fans.

I could be wrong though, I was mentioning the above as a possibility.
 

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