All Things 2024 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

Donate To GopherHole
Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
I know it's not the sexiest thing to do and most fans would be apoplectic, but I wouldn't HATE it if they just rolled with Darnold and used their assets to fill some premium positions. The thing is, if you do that, you really, really, really had better hit on #11 and #23 or there will be rioting in the streets.

I'm sure it's absolutely not the plan right now, they want to move up for one of the QB's, but this regime has 100% shown that they have the discipline to draw the line where the determine it should be.

- They tried to move up for Richardson next year but didn't overpay
- they tried to keep Cousins but didn't overpay
- they tried to keep Hunter but didn't overpay

This will be the test, no doubt. It wouldn't be crazy for the Giants, the Broncos, even the Raiders to get into a bidding war with the Vikings for a pick around #4 or #5.
Click to expand...
Even with Jones under contract, the NYG Owner today gave his full blessing to his FO to draft a QB at 6 or move up if there is a guy they really like.

With DEN, they don't have a 2nd Round pick this year but you know Payton would love a young QB to mold.

The Raiders always like to make a splash but they seem to really like O'Connell and have even more holes on the roster they need to fill than the Vikings.

The NYJ, NO and LAR all could look at adding their future QB if they are high on Penix and/or Nix.

So many teams and variables that trying to mock a Draft this year is nearly impossible.
 

swede2 said:
Why are they guaranteed to suck this year? They've at least arguably improved the defense in free agency and the offense is missing one big piece at QB but it's not an untalented team.
Click to expand...
You're right, suck is too strong of a word.

swede2 said:
If we wanted to get a high pick organically we should either have 1: Signed garbage free agents to get to the cap minimum;
Click to expand...
This would never have been a thing. Flores was given sweeping control to target the guys he wanted this offseason in FA and we've gone out and gotten them. This was part of the deal in keeping him (Flores). No matter how poor the offense plays, there is no reason not to get a solid defense, if nothing more this year to prepare for a run in 25.

swede2 said:
and/or 2: Last season after the KC injury: Saved the pick we gave away on Dobbs, shut down JJ, traded Hunter for whatever we could get, and run with the garbage QBs on the roster or signed some other journeyman.
Click to expand...
This is yet another rehashing of hindsight is 20/20 from last season. Not a thing


swede2 said:
More likely they'll end up in the bad to mediocre range and a similar draft position as this year, then end up in the brutal to bad range, and get a top pick in what's being heralded as a weak QB draft.
Click to expand...
Some of this clearly is semantics. I don't think there is any chance we'll get a top 3 pick. And I disagree that that is the requirement to call it a top pick. Picking 11 is way up there. Wild guess picking 6-8, unless by incredible dumb luck they draft a guy who does a Stroud, two years in a row, so that's all but impossible for us.

If five QB's get drafted first round this year, it's a top class, but if three QB's get drafted first round next year, it's a weak class? How does that work?

swede2 said:
But I'm not opposed to trading up if they can get the guy they actually want. But we'll never know if they trade up and get "their" guy or just "a" guy.
Click to expand...
They'll just lie and say they got their guy.

What are they supposed to say?? "Yeah you know ... we felt OK about this guy, definitely not our first choice, but we had to do something amiright??"

swede2 said:
I hope that the team is prepared to hang on to the picks they have and take Penix/Nix at 23 or hope JJ falls to 11 but I doubt it. The talent on the team now is too great and next year's cap space means the only piece of the formula missing for a '25 season SB run is a good QB on a rookie scale.
Click to expand...
Correction: a good QB. Period.

Yeah, that one little piece that every team in the league needs and chases every year and is the most important position in sports.
 
Last edited:

howeda7 said:
The same people saying "Keep Kirk and try to win a Super Bowl" are now saying we're going to suck and have a top 10 pick without him
Click to expand...
It's almost like QB is the most important position in sports???

This couldn't be howeda being dishonest, could it??

howeda7 said:
even though the QB savings has gone straight to fixing the defense.
Click to expand...
These FA's still could have been signed with Kirk being signed to a new contract.

Cap space can be manipulated in new contracts, and is every year.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
writers - including one from The Athletic - are now floating the idea that some talent evaluators have McCarthy ranked as high as the #2 QB overall - and suggesting that Washington could take McCarthy with the 2nd pick in the draft.

no idea how much of this is hype and how much is substance.
Click to expand...
A guy who hasn't played a ton in college, whose college team won largely because they ran the ball well and played defense well, and was labeled a 2nd round talent initially.

Gets hyped into ... 2nd overall pick! By people talking and talking and talking and worrying/convincing themselves into thinking something is true that isn't.

This is how you wind up with Zac Wilson.

short ornery norwegian said:
But - if there is something to it, then Vikes would have interesting choices - try to trade up to pick #3 or 4 to go after Maye/Daniels (assuming they are available) - take Penix/Nix at #23 (and get killed by the media for "reaching) - or trade back into the 2nd round and take Penix/Nix (assuming they are available)

honestly, I think I could live with taking best defensive player at #11, and then taking Penix/Nix at 23 -- or trading back to accumulate more picks and hoping that Penix/Nix were available in the 2nd round.
Click to expand...
We can hope
 
Last edited:

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
I know it's not the sexiest thing to do and most fans would be apoplectic, but I wouldn't HATE it if they just rolled with Darnold and used their assets to fill some premium positions. The thing is, if you do that, you really, really, really had better hit on #11 and #23 or there will be rioting in the streets.

I'm sure it's absolutely not the plan right now, they want to move up for one of the QB's, but this regime has 100% shown that they have the discipline to draw the line where the determine it should be.

- They tried to move up for Richardson next year but didn't overpay
- they tried to keep Cousins but didn't overpay
- they tried to keep Hunter but didn't overpay

This will be the test, no doubt. It wouldn't be crazy for the Giants, the Broncos, even the Raiders to get into a bidding war with the Vikings for a pick around #4 or #5.
Click to expand...
I don't think a move gets made before draft night.

Should be a fun one.

That is, until the top 11 picks are actually made. Then Vikings fans could be really pissed off ... or very happy. We will see!
 



Just silly.

Get rid of kickoffs altogether. Other team starts with the ball at their 25. Or you can declare that you want to attempt to keep the ball (onside equivalent) and try to convert a 4th and 15 from your own 40 (or something like that).

Kickers don't go out of a job. They can focus on making FG/XP. That should be their job.
 

Giants owner John Mara gives green light to draft quarterback​


EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Even though they signed Daniel Jones to a $160 million deal last year, New York Giants general manager Joe Schoen and coach Brian Daboll have the green light from ownership to draft a quarterback, if they so desire.

The Giants hold the sixth pick in an especially strong quarterback draft.

"If they fall in love with a quarterback and believe that it's worth pick No. 6 or moving up, I certainly would support that," owner John Mara said Monday at the NFL annual meeting.

Schoen has already made it known that the team is at the very least looking at quarterbacks with the high pick and Jones coming off a season with two serious injuries. He's currently rehabbing a torn ACL. The Giants have already had Michigan's J.J. McCarthy and North Carolina's Drake Maye in for visits. Schoen was at Caleb Williams' pro day last week at USC along with director of player personnel Tim McDonnell. Meanwhile, assistant general manager Brandon Brown and quarterbacks coach Shea Tierney were at McCarthy's pro day in Ann Arbor.

"I know they're looking at the quarterbacks. You've seen that," Mara said. "They've gone to some of the pro day, we've had some of those guys in. I don't think they're even close to making a final determination yet as to which way we're going to go on that. Those discussions will happen over the next few weeks."

Mara said he has been told by the front office that it's the "most talented group [of quarterbacks] to come out in years."

www.espn.com

Giants ownership gives OK to draft quarterback

Giants owner John Mara said general manager Joe Schoen and coach Brian Daboll have the green light from ownership to draft a quarterback, if they so desire.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 

I think Tannebaum is an idiot but I thought this was a quite unique approach to a Mock Draft and potential trade:

2024 NFL mock draft: Tannenbaum makes GM picks for Round 1​


1. Chicago Bears (via CAR)​

Caleb Williams, QB, USC

2. Washington Commanders​

Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

3. New England Patriots​

Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

4. Arizona Cardinals​

J.J. McCarthy, QB, Michigan

5. Los Angeles Chargers​

Joe Alt, OT, Notre Dame

6. New York Giants​

Malik Nabers, WR, LSU

7. Tennessee Titans​

JC Latham, OT, Alabama

8. Atlanta Falcons​

Dallas Turner, EDGE, Alabama

9. Chicago Bears​

Marvin Harrison Jr., WR, Ohio State

10. New York Jets​

Olumuyiwa Fashanu, OT, Penn State

Mock projected trade: Vikings address their QB issue​

Cardinals get: No. 11
Vikings get: QB Kyler Murray and No. 66 (third round)

I drafted J.J. McCarthy at No. 4 to take over under center for Arizona, so Murray becomes a trade candidate and Minnesota is still searching for QB answers after missing out on the top four passers in the class. I don't love the scheme fit for Oregon's Bo Nix in Minnesota, and it's too early for Washington's Michael Penix Jr.

So here's my proposition to clear some cap space for the Cards, officially start the McCarthy era in Arizona and fix the Vikings' QB issue. In my mind, the No. 11 pick for Murray straight up is too rich, and No. 23 -- Minnesota's other first-rounder -- on its own is not enough. So I'm attaching that third-rounder to the No. 11 pick to level this out. It's similar to what the Cardinals did during the 2022 draft, when they traded their first-round pick (No. 23) to Baltimore for receiver Marquise Brown and a third-rounder.

From the Vikings' standpoint, everything I said earlier about Murray's durability still matters, but he's cheaper and younger than Kirk Cousins would have been to re-sign and gives them a chance to compete this season rather than rebuild.

11. Arizona Cardinals (via mock trade with MIN)​

Quinyon Mitchell, CB, Toledo

23. Minnesota Vikings (via CLE/HOU)​

Jer'Zhan Newton, DT, Illinois

Minnesota did a great job of addressing their edges in free agency (Jonathan Greenard and Andrew Van Ginkel), and now I have the Vikings landing an explosive interior pass-rusher who had 18 sacks and 95 pressures over 45 games at Illinois. He's coming off a foot injury and is undersized for the position at 6-foot-2 and 304 pounds, but his versatility and production is coveted on NFL defenses. Minnesota could also consider a cornerback here, like Alabama's Kool-Aid McKinstry or Clemson's Nate Wiggins.
 



Slim Tubby said:
I think Tannebaum is an idiot but I thought this was a quite unique approach to a Mock Draft and potential trade:

2024 NFL mock draft: Tannenbaum makes GM picks for Round 1​


1. Chicago Bears (via CAR)​

Caleb Williams, QB, USC

2. Washington Commanders​

Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

3. New England Patriots​

Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

4. Arizona Cardinals​

J.J. McCarthy, QB, Michigan

5. Los Angeles Chargers​

Joe Alt, OT, Notre Dame

6. New York Giants​

Malik Nabers, WR, LSU

7. Tennessee Titans​

JC Latham, OT, Alabama

8. Atlanta Falcons​

Dallas Turner, EDGE, Alabama

9. Chicago Bears​

Marvin Harrison Jr., WR, Ohio State

10. New York Jets​

Olumuyiwa Fashanu, OT, Penn State

Mock projected trade: Vikings address their QB issue​

Cardinals get: No. 11
Vikings get: QB Kyler Murray and No. 66 (third round)

I drafted J.J. McCarthy at No. 4 to take over under center for Arizona, so Murray becomes a trade candidate and Minnesota is still searching for QB answers after missing out on the top four passers in the class. I don't love the scheme fit for Oregon's Bo Nix in Minnesota, and it's too early for Washington's Michael Penix Jr.

So here's my proposition to clear some cap space for the Cards, officially start the McCarthy era in Arizona and fix the Vikings' QB issue. In my mind, the No. 11 pick for Murray straight up is too rich, and No. 23 -- Minnesota's other first-rounder -- on its own is not enough. So I'm attaching that third-rounder to the No. 11 pick to level this out. It's similar to what the Cardinals did during the 2022 draft, when they traded their first-round pick (No. 23) to Baltimore for receiver Marquise Brown and a third-rounder.

From the Vikings' standpoint, everything I said earlier about Murray's durability still matters, but he's cheaper and younger than Kirk Cousins would have been to re-sign and gives them a chance to compete this season rather than rebuild.

11. Arizona Cardinals (via mock trade with MIN)​

Quinyon Mitchell, CB, Toledo

23. Minnesota Vikings (via CLE/HOU)​

Jer'Zhan Newton, DT, Illinois

Minnesota did a great job of addressing their edges in free agency (Jonathan Greenard and Andrew Van Ginkel), and now I have the Vikings landing an explosive interior pass-rusher who had 18 sacks and 95 pressures over 45 games at Illinois. He's coming off a foot injury and is undersized for the position at 6-foot-2 and 304 pounds, but his versatility and production is coveted on NFL defenses. Minnesota could also consider a cornerback here, like Alabama's Kool-Aid McKinstry or Clemson's Nate Wiggins.
Click to expand...
Trading Murray pre-6/1 would actually save them $5M cap space in 2024.

So it is doable in that sense, as opposed to the ill-formed Herbert trade idea.
 

Dan Patrick and co. were discussing McCarthy's rise up the board. He was asked if he could think of a similar QB rising out of nowhere. He mentioned Christian Ponder. :oops:
 

Slim Tubby said:
I think Tannebaum is an idiot but I thought this was a quite unique approach to a Mock Draft and potential trade:

2024 NFL mock draft: Tannenbaum makes GM picks for Round 1​


1. Chicago Bears (via CAR)​

Caleb Williams, QB, USC

2. Washington Commanders​

Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina

3. New England Patriots​

Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

4. Arizona Cardinals​

J.J. McCarthy, QB, Michigan

5. Los Angeles Chargers​

Joe Alt, OT, Notre Dame

6. New York Giants​

Malik Nabers, WR, LSU

7. Tennessee Titans​

JC Latham, OT, Alabama

8. Atlanta Falcons​

Dallas Turner, EDGE, Alabama

9. Chicago Bears​

Marvin Harrison Jr., WR, Ohio State

10. New York Jets​

Olumuyiwa Fashanu, OT, Penn State

Mock projected trade: Vikings address their QB issue​

Cardinals get: No. 11
Vikings get: QB Kyler Murray and No. 66 (third round)

I drafted J.J. McCarthy at No. 4 to take over under center for Arizona, so Murray becomes a trade candidate and Minnesota is still searching for QB answers after missing out on the top four passers in the class. I don't love the scheme fit for Oregon's Bo Nix in Minnesota, and it's too early for Washington's Michael Penix Jr.

So here's my proposition to clear some cap space for the Cards, officially start the McCarthy era in Arizona and fix the Vikings' QB issue. In my mind, the No. 11 pick for Murray straight up is too rich, and No. 23 -- Minnesota's other first-rounder -- on its own is not enough. So I'm attaching that third-rounder to the No. 11 pick to level this out. It's similar to what the Cardinals did during the 2022 draft, when they traded their first-round pick (No. 23) to Baltimore for receiver Marquise Brown and a third-rounder.

From the Vikings' standpoint, everything I said earlier about Murray's durability still matters, but he's cheaper and younger than Kirk Cousins would have been to re-sign and gives them a chance to compete this season rather than rebuild.

11. Arizona Cardinals (via mock trade with MIN)​

Quinyon Mitchell, CB, Toledo

23. Minnesota Vikings (via CLE/HOU)​

Jer'Zhan Newton, DT, Illinois

Minnesota did a great job of addressing their edges in free agency (Jonathan Greenard and Andrew Van Ginkel), and now I have the Vikings landing an explosive interior pass-rusher who had 18 sacks and 95 pressures over 45 games at Illinois. He's coming off a foot injury and is undersized for the position at 6-foot-2 and 304 pounds, but his versatility and production is coveted on NFL defenses. Minnesota could also consider a cornerback here, like Alabama's Kool-Aid McKinstry or Clemson's Nate Wiggins.
Click to expand...
I would probably make that trade, but I doubt the Cardinals would.
 

howeda7 said:
Dan Patrick and co. were discussing McCarthy's rise up the board. He was asked if he could think of a similar QB rising out of nowhere. He mentioned Christian Ponder. :oops:
Click to expand...
We’re gonna get him at the loss of future first(s), and that’s what it’s going to be. Ponder again for four years.

F that
 



howeda7 said:
Click to expand...
I like the change. The kickoff can be the most exciting play in football. I think the changes that were made that effectively eliminated the kickoff were merely lip service to the CTE issue - I don't think there was any solid evidence that kickoffs were any more dangerous. But I don't think we're turning back the clock. This is a reasonable compromise that eliminates the big collisions between the teams while encouraging returns.
 

howeda7 said:
I would probably make that trade, but I doubt the Cardinals would.
Click to expand...
Agreed...but I'll cede to @Ogee and @Bleed on this one since they've watched Murray more closely. It looks good on paper, though:

QB Kyler Murray
RB Aaron Jones
WR Justin Jefferson
WR Jordan Addison
TE T.J. Hockenson

That offense would score a lot of points. Draft Joe Milton in the 5th Round and develop him under Murray. 🙂
 

howeda7 said:
Dan Patrick and co. were discussing McCarthy's rise up the board. He was asked if he could think of a similar QB rising out of nowhere. He mentioned Christian Ponder. :oops:
Click to expand...
If I remember correctly, Ponder was still expected to go in the early 2nd round even on draft day.
 

Slim Tubby said:
Agreed...but I'll cede to @Ogee and @Bleed on this one since they've watched Murray more closely. It looks good on paper, though:

QB Kyler Murray
RB Aaron Jones
WR Justin Jefferson
WR Jordan Addison
TE T.J. Hockenson

That offense would score a lot of points. Draft Joe Milton in the 5th Round and develop him under Murray. 🙂
Click to expand...
Admittedly I haven't looked closely at Murray's contract. I know it was probably an overpay at the time, but I'm guessing it's tolerable now.
 

Slim Tubby said:
Agreed...but I'll cede to @Ogee and @Bleed on this one since they've watched Murray more closely. It looks good on paper, though:

QB Kyler Murray
RB Aaron Jones
WR Justin Jefferson
WR Jordan Addison
TE T.J. Hockenson

That offense would score a lot of points. Draft Joe Milton in the 5th Round and develop him under Murray. 🙂
Click to expand...

That would be one helluva trade. One thing to remember, Kyler Murray was brought in, AND given the massive extension, by the previous regime of HC KK and GM Keim. Those guys are long gone.

I like Murray, a lot, but the jury is still out on where he's evolved with his maturity. The video gaming has obviously been beaten to death and for a few years there he didn't exactly endear himself to his teammates in the locker room. HOWEVER, sitting out with the injury, hearing himself get bashed in the media all last offseason, and the new leadership, I'm OPTIMISTIC that he's gotten past all that?

Talent-wise, I'm a big, big fan. He's immensely talented, and a great thrower of the football. People think of him as a big runner and those guys can expose themselves to big hits but his baseball background has given him some skills, sliding in particular, where he manages to avoid getting hammered. He has almost elite arm talent, can make any throw, and his athletic ability is obvious to anyone.

I've never seen a young QB so savvy, particularly for one as athletic as Murray, when it comes to understanding the value of that "extra yard" versus being exposed to a big hit. It's almost comical, I have seen Murray scrambling behind the LOS, the rush is closing in, nowhere to go, and he literally just SITS DOWN!! Smart as shit in that regard, why take a hit or let some 300-pounder fall on you?

As far as the Vikings trading for him, obviously I'd have to know the contract particulars, how much of the extension the Cardinals have already eaten, how much of a financial commitment the Vikings would be making. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cardinals have already taken the biggest hit and a new team could be getting for like 2 years and a modest commitment? I'd have to look.

I doubt it happens but as I said, Murray was not brought into the building by HC Gannon and GM Monti Ossenfort.
 

swede2 said:
I like the change. The kickoff can be the most exciting play in football. I think the changes that were made that effectively eliminated the kickoff were merely lip service to the CTE issue - I don't think there was any solid evidence that kickoffs were any more dangerous. But I don't think we're turning back the clock. This is a reasonable compromise that eliminates the big collisions between the teams while encouraging returns.
Click to expand...
Apparently it's a quite involved rule. The "return zone" is between the goal line and the 20. If the ball lands in the end zone (or goes out), the offense gets it at the 30 or 35 (can't recall). If it lands short of the goal line but the return team lets it roll into the end zone they only get it at the 20. If the kicking team kicks it short of the 20, the offense gets it all the way at the 40.
 

GophersInIowa said:
If I remember correctly, Ponder was still expected to go in the early 2nd round even on draft day.
Click to expand...
He was rated by many "experts" to be no better than a 3-4 Round pick prospect right up to the Draft. It was the quintessential reach for a position of need.
 

reading more about the new Kickoff rule.

so as I understand it
kicker at own 35 (called A35). rest of kicking team at opponent's 40 (B40).
9 members of receiving team line up between B30 & B35. 2 returners in landing zone (between B20 and goal line).
only kickers and returners can move when ball is kicked. rest of players can move when Kick is fielded. Kick must land in landing zone or goes out to B30. Touchbacks go out to B30.

and - No Fair catches. ball that lands in landing zone must be returned.

(not sure but I think you can still return a ball from the end zone...need to read more on this)

and this gets me. teams may try two onside kicks a game. team must announce its intentions to try onside kick. teams then line up in traditional formation. No surprise onside kicks.

Oh Kay.
 

Greg Joseph has signed with...........The Packers!!!

"I've got those new kicker blues......
goin' wide left off the shoes....."
 


short ornery norwegian said:
now, if for some reason the Vikes don't take a QB this year - here are the top 2025 QB's according to NFL draft buzz....
1. Shedeur Sanders - Colorado
2. Drew Allar - Penn State
3. Conner Weigman - Texas A&M
4. Carson Beck - Georgia
5. Quinn Ewers - Texas
Click to expand...

And that's why they need to take a QB this draft. Next year's class stinks.
 


If we don't draft JJM, it really is going to be piss in GWG's Cherrios.

As Kathy would say
 


Trivial tidbit, and only one person's opinion but it's an opinion that I listen to more often than others. Former front office man, Michael Lombardi (time with Raiders, Browns, Patriots) listed who HE thinks are the best ownership groups in the NFL right now on his show on VSiN, the sports gambling channel (I'd highly, highly recommend by the way).

1. Steelers
2. Ravens
3. Eagles
4. Vikings
5. 49ers

He went through a few reasons for his list and it went far beyond simply spending money; a fair amount to do with providing the team with facilities and assets they need to do their job, and essentially their level of meddling.

I don't suppose anyone has watched the documentary about the Patriots that is out? Woof.... I don't plan on watching it, it sounds like it's an atrocious recant of their success in the last 20+ years. I guess they give Belichick almost ZERO credit, barely even talk to him or about him in the show, and gives a shitload of credit to Kraft, go figure. I'm sure Kraft paid for it. Sounds like a steaming piece of shit for the most part but I haven't read any real reviews or heard anyone that has watched it.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Trivial tidbit, and only one person's opinion but it's an opinion that I listen to more often than others. Former front office man, Michael Lombardi (time with Raiders, Browns, Patriots) listed who HE thinks are the best ownership groups in the NFL right now on his show on VSiN, the sports gambling channel (I'd highly, highly recommend by the way).

1. Steelers
2. Ravens
3. Eagles
4. Vikings
5. 49ers

He went through a few reasons for his list and it went far beyond simply spending money; a fair amount to do with providing the team with facilities and assets they need to do their job, and essentially their level of meddling.

I don't suppose anyone has watched the documentary about the Patriots that is out? Woof.... I don't plan on watching it, it sounds like it's an atrocious recant of their success in the last 20+ years. I guess they give Belichick almost ZERO credit, barely even talk to him or about him in the show, and gives a shitload of credit to Kraft, go figure. I'm sure Kraft paid for it. Sounds like a steaming piece of shit for the most part but I haven't read any real reviews or heard anyone that has watched it.
Click to expand...
The Vikings overall are a very good organization. As those things become more and more important to players, hopefully it results in getting better players because everybody wants to play for them.
 

gophersfan said:
This is the best trade offer i seen so far.

Click to expand...
Assuming the Vikes have Darnold or rookie QB starting, the first round pick in 2025 will highly likely be top 15 (and likely higher than that). Using pick #15 in 2025 as a benchmark, the Vikes get 2,480 "points" and Arizona 3,060 "points" via the trade chart. So presumably Arizona would be interested in such a trade. However, they lose out on MHJ, so are they comfortable enough with WR#2 or WR#3 to make such a trade?
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom