Shedeur Sanders’ Slide in NFL Draft Cost Him $44 Million

[MNVCGUY]

Let's be honest here, it never works out for the Browns.

I mean sure.....they are in year 20 of a 2 year rebuilding plan.....but hey....even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.....

 

[mcrow47]

He was better in a couple of those non pro powl seasons.

Yes, but very mediocre for his career and I'm saying that's his ceiling.

 

[matt]

If you can back it up, is it arrogance?

Yes

 

[STPGopher]

Yes

So can we agree that it's worse when you can't...

 

[Just Gopher It!!]

Yes, but very mediocre for his career and I'm saying that's his ceiling.

Wrong. Maybe I’ll lampoon your original post later this week if I’m bored!!!
You wanna bust my chops, no worries friend, but you can always expect the same in return!!!!


Your specific comp was from your post #133 below!!!!

“Maybe Andy Dalton in his prime sort of level.”

The thing about him is he has "enough" talent to play in the NFL but he tries to make plays like he's Patrick Mahomes. In college, you're going to get away with that a lot more than in the NFL. I think he's likely to be a turnover machine in the NFL. If he focused more on making the right play rather than trying to make the flashy play he might be a serviceable QB. I do not see him being a top half of the league QB. I think ceiling is bottom half starter or a good backup. Maybe Andy Dalton in his prime sort of level.

 

[upnorthkid]

I wasn't comparing anyone other than saying they all had character issues. Not the same issues but they all had character issues. And Jamarcus Russell and Manziel are similar in character but at least Russell actually had the raw talent so that was more understandable why someone might take a chance on him.

I don't think all teams see character issues the same but they are definitely not tolerated the same anymore for QBs. If Sanders was a WR,DB, DE..ect nobody cares about his attitude. I think there was a time when QBs could get away with it, like Brett Favre for example probably would have been very scrutinized today if he were going to be drafted. I think it's because offenses have become so much more complicated and defenses too. You can't just go out there and dominate on raw ability and confidence anymore.

Agree on him being a qb. You are the face of the team and franchise. The owner knows that for better or worse and it blacklisted Shedeur for a lot of owners and/or GMs.

Whether QBs like it or not, it’s probably the only position like that, though I’d imagine an OL who celebrated every pancake by flashing their fancy watch would probably also raise concerns. It’s a clashing with the image people have in their head.

He’s absolutely better talent wise than a 5th round pick though

 

[Gophers1992]

I think there is a tendency to look at all character issues the same.

Baker Mayfield was cocky but the guy has always loved football and his teammateJams have always loved him. Manziel never gave a sh!t about football. Manziel is closer to Jamarcus Russell than he is Baker.

I don't bring this up to be nitpicky on your comparison, I bring it up because Shadeur's character issues remind me much more of Baker than they do Manziel. I have no reason to believe Sanders doesn't love football.

Obviously a lot of the stuff we hear is hearsay, but Shedeur’s apparent lack of preparation for interviews and apparent aversion to film study is very Manziel-like. Also at least from my understanding Baker has always been a team-first guy who owns up to his screw ups. Sanders has thrown his teammates under the bus in interviews. I’m sure he loves football, but he also really loves himself.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Obviously a lot of the stuff we hear is hearsay, but Shedeur’s apparent lack of preparation for interviews and apparent aversion to film study is very Manziel-like. Also at least from my understanding Baker has always been a team-first guy who owns up to his screw ups. Sanders has thrown his teammates under the bus in interviews. I’m sure he loves football, but he also really loves himself.

Reminds me of the story about how Gilbert Arenas got picked so low:


Some interviews can ... just be that bad.

 

[TruthSeeker]

If you can back it up, is it arrogance?

I think the picture of Barry Bonds is in the book for this one.

 

[mcrow47]

Wrong. Maybe I’ll lampoon your original post later this week if I’m bored!!!
You wanna bust my chops, no worries friend, but you can always expect the same in return!!!!


Your specific comp was from your post #133 below!!!!

“Maybe Andy Dalton in his prime sort of level.”

Yes, Dalton in his prime is what I believe his Ceiling is and even Dalton in his prime is "Good". And that's the ceiling. Who's busting your chops? I'm just stating that Sanders is at best going to be a "solid" QB. That's if he reaches full potential, most QBs do not. Chances are he does not reach full potential which means he falls between a complete bust or mediocre at best. Best case scenario is he becomes the good version of Andy Dalton, best case.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Reminds me of the story about how Gilbert Arenas got picked so low:


Some interviews can ... just be that bad.

Hilarious and respect for Gil being himself and still laughing about it.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Hilarious and respect for Gil being himself and still laughing about it.

I'm not convinced he's just "being himself and still laughing about it" ... as much as dude is that dumb / not in control of himself.

We're talking about a guy running an illegal gambling operation and put his name on a table to do illegal things with.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I'm not convinced he's just "being himself and still laughing about it" ... as much as dude is that dumb / not in control of himself.

The comment was regarding the video itself kiddo, that was the discussion of the video you posted friend - I thought was obviously

We're talking about a guy running an illegal gambling operation and put his name on a table to do illegal things with.

Sorry friend, but there are innumerable people who present themselves as being upstanding people and have done things much more heinous than he ever did.

I enjoy people who don’t try and hide who they are to impress others with their public persona - it’s extremely comical on here.

In my Chubby Checker past, I have found the “Sinners are much more fun than the Saints” and also more honest.

Is your browsing history fascinating??

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

The comment was regarding the video itself kiddo, that was the discussion of the video you posted friend - I thought was obviously

Sorry friend, but there are innumerable people who present themselves as being upstanding people and have done things much more heinous than he ever did.

I enjoy people who don’t try and hide who they are to impress others with their public persona - it’s extremely comical on here.

In my Chubby Checker past, I have found the “Sinners are much more fun than the Saints” and also more honest.

Is your browsing history fascinating??

I honestly don't understand your response.

I think the dude is an idiot, that's it.

What that has to do with other people doing worse things (can always find people doing worse things) I've no idea....

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I honestly don't understand your response.

I think the dude is an idiot, that's it.

What that has to do with other people doing worse things (can always find people doing worse things) I've no idea....

My friend, neither the topic or myself requires this much scrutiny.

I perceive life and people like Gil via a different prism than you based on my experience - life would be boring if we all saw things the same way, n’est pas?

Don’t worry, Be Happy

 

[btowngopher]

It's not that I disagree with anything you posted but I've seen guys with much more serious character flaws (and less talent) get drafter higher than Sanders. You wanna draft Jaxon Dart in front of him? Ok. You want to draft Gabriel or Shough ahead of him? I just don't get it.

If Sanders turns into a serviceable backup, it's a coup for a 5th round pick.

I think character issues during a college career are often written off for the most part in this day and age. But when you display poor character in the actual interviews and during the draft process how can it be ignored?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I think character issues during a college career are often written off for the most part in this day and age. But when you display poor character in the actual interviews and during the draft process how can it be ignored?

I'm not really arguing it should be ignored. I'm not a Mel Kiper type and think it's some great injustice that Shadeur didn't get drafted. If he's an ass in interviews leading up to the draft, I can definitely see why teams don't want that distraction on their football team. With QBs, it's always a balancing act between talent vs. distraction. This was true for Tebow, Kaepernick, Manziel and now for Sanders.

You're 100% right, they can't and shouldn't ignore him being an ass in interviews.

 

[Just Gopher It!!]

Yes, Dalton in his prime is what I believe his Ceiling is and even Dalton in his prime is "Good". And that's the ceiling. Who's busting your chops? I'm just stating that Sanders is at best going to be a "solid" QB. That's if he reaches full potential, most QBs do not. Chances are he does not reach full potential which means he falls between a complete bust or mediocre at best. Best case scenario is he becomes the good version of Andy Dalton, best case.

Time will tell, as it always does, my friend. Then well know which one of us “experts” is correct!!

 

[WoodburyTim]

I honestly don't understand your response.

I think the dude is an idiot, that's it.

What that has to do with other people doing worse things (can always find people doing worse things) I've no idea....

If anyone has ever done something worse than what you are doing, it is okay. 3rd grader logic.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

If anyone has ever done something worse than what you are doing, it is okay. 3rd grader logic.

Ah, your sweet spot

The point obviously was, we all fall short and have all made mistakes (ala whose qualified to cast the first stone), including me, you and everyone else on this board. Just think how much more peaceful the world would be, if we weren’t in such a rush to condemn every transgression and display some of the Mercy God displays to us all.

Peace be with you friend

 

[WoodburyTim]

The point obviously was, we all fall short and have all made mistakes (ala whose qualified to cast the first stone), including me, you and everyone else on this board. Just think how much more peaceful the world would be, if we weren’t in such a rush to condemn every transgression and display some of the Mercy God displays to us all.

Peace be with you friend

All your biblical phrasing and speak about tolerance and forgiveness is applicable when someone is remorseful and ashamed of their transgression.

Not liking unapologetic jackasses is not being judgey, it’s just calling an a$$hole an a$$hole.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

The point obviously was, we all fall short and have all made mistakes (ala whose qualified to cast the first stone), including me, you and everyone else on this board. Just think how much more peaceful the world would be, if we weren’t in such a rush to condemn every transgression and display some of the Mercy God displays to us all.

All your biblical phrasing and speak about tolerance and forgiveness is applicable when someone is remorseful and ashamed of their transgression.

You’re talking about having to earn or merit God’s Mercy, the opposite of God’s Grace, i.e, unmerited Gift. None of us, me, Sheddeur or, you, can ever do anything to earn/merit God’s Grace/His Mercy/His Love.

Biblical Ex: Saul and Matthew were sinners when God called them; it was God’s Mercy which healed them out of their sin

Additionally, this verse dispels your notion-

Matthew 5:45 (NIV)

that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Furthermore, you appear to be applying human standards, to God’s Mercy, whereas, He operates on a different frequency than us -

Isiah 55:8-9 (NIV) -

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Not liking unapologetic jackasses is not being judgey,

How do you know he hasn’t asked for God’s forgiveness in private? Doing so publicly is not required, per my Bible, in fact it’s discouraged.

it’s just calling an a$$hole an a$$hole.

This isn’t how I try and live my life (some days are less sinful than others for me) friend. So I don’t interact with those who do. I’m going to tap out of this conversation and put you on ignore, as I’m not on the forum for pissing contests, and you seem to me, to have me on your Radar O’Reilly.

I’m going to have a wonderful day enjoying God’s Love and Mercy and pray you do as well, as He loves you and so do I (the Second Greatest commandment: MT 22:39 and Mark 12:31)

 

[Schnauzer]

 

[mcrow47]

You’re talking about having to earn or merit God’s Mercy, the opposite of God’s Grace, i.e, unmerited Gift. None of us, me, Sheddeur or, you, can ever do anything to earn/merit God’s Grace/His Mercy/His Love.

Biblical Ex: Saul and Matthew were sinners when God called them; it was God’s Mercy which healed them out of their sin

Additionally, this verse dispels your notion-

Matthew 5:45 (NIV)

that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Furthermore, you appear to be applying human standards, to God’s Mercy, whereas, He operates on a different frequency than us -

Isiah 55:8-9 (NIV) -

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.


How do you know he hasn’t asked for God’s forgiveness in private? Doing so publicly is not required, per my Bible, in fact it’s discouraged.


This isn’t how I try and live my life (some days are less sinful than others for me) friend. So I don’t interact with those who do. I’m going to tap out of this conversation and put you on ignore, as I’m not on the forum for pissing contests, and you seem to me, to have me on your Radar O’Reilly.

I’m going to have a wonderful day enjoying God’s Love and Mercy and pray you do as well, as He loves you and so do I (the Second Greatest commandment: MT 22:39 and Mark 12:31)

Ummm....maybe it's because I'm Catholic but even supposing he is asking for forgiveness (I highly doubt it, self absorbed rich people are not typically religious) but repenting and repeating the same or similar behavior probably doesn't erase the sin. I mean, by that logic you could murder someone and as long as you repent of the sin then all is good, rinse repeat.

 

[WoodburyTim]

You’re talking about having to earn or merit God’s Mercy, the opposite of God’s Grace, i.e, unmerited Gift. None of us, me, Sheddeur or, you, can ever do anything to earn/merit God’s Grace/His Mercy/His Love.

Biblical Ex: Saul and Matthew were sinners when God called them; it was God’s Mercy which healed them out of their sin

Additionally, this verse dispels your notion-

Matthew 5:45 (NIV)

that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Furthermore, you appear to be applying human standards, to God’s Mercy, whereas, He operates on a different frequency than us -

Isiah 55:8-9 (NIV) -

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.


How do you know he hasn’t asked for God’s forgiveness in private? Doing so publicly is not required, per my Bible, in fact it’s discouraged.


This isn’t how I try and live my life (some days are less sinful than others for me) friend. So I don’t interact with those who do. I’m going to tap out of this conversation and put you on ignore, as I’m not on the forum for pissing contests, and you seem to me, to have me on your Radar O’Reilly.

I’m going to have a wonderful day enjoying God’s Love and Mercy and pray you do as well, as He loves you and so do I (the Second Greatest commandment: MT 22:39 and Mark 12:31)

His relationship with God is his business. He can handle that however he wants, more power to him.

But you seem to think that you can be a jackass as long as you have a strong private relationship with God. Well sorry, but that means nothing to the people you may plow into when you are driving 130 mph’s in your sports car.

 

[FinnGopher]

Ummm....maybe it's because I'm Catholic but even supposing he is asking for forgiveness (I highly doubt it, self absorbed rich people are not typically religious) but repenting and repeating the same or similar behavior probably doesn't erase the sin. I mean, by that logic you could murder someone and as long as you repent of the sin then all is good, rinse repeat.

Did you know your exact argument is addressed in the Bible?

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 6 - New International Version

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ - What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[mcrow47]

Did you know your exact argument is addressed in the Bible?

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 6 - New International Version

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ - What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were...

www.biblegateway.com

If you think that contradicts what I said I don't think you know how to read the bible.

 

[FinnGopher]

If you think that contradicts what I said I don't think you know how to read the bible.

I didn't say it contradicted you. I said the Bible already answers your argument. Then, I gave you the reference so you could know I wasn't making it up.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Ummm....maybe it's because I'm Catholic

I appreciate your thoghtful reply.

Born and raised Catholic, my friend.

Mercy in my experience having been both Catholic and Protestant, isn’t a topic which is frequently discussed, despite Jesus’ last words before he died.

but even supposing he is asking for forgiveness (I highly doubt it, self absorbed rich people are not typically religious) but repenting and repeating the same or similar behavior probably doesn't erase the sin.

To clarify, I never said it did. I try not to judge others behavior (Lest yee judge, not Yee be judged) and fall short all the time of course.

I don’t feel I’m qualified to pass judgment on Shedeur or anyone else for that matter, as it abdicates, me looking at my sins (speck in the brother’s eye vs. beam in mine).

I mean, by that logic you could murder someone and as long as you repent of the sin then all is good, rinse repeat.

I never said it’s a free pass to keep sinning, but God knows where one’s hearts is (I don’t) and if one really wants to change/be transformed, from their state of sinfulness.

It’s really not my logic forgiving murders, it’s God’s teaching -

Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.

Luke 23:34 (NIV)

Forgiving the people who tortured and killed you - what a God we serve

Also, Moses was a murder (Exodus 2:11-15) and David had the husband of Bathsheba, Uriah, put in the front lines, so he would die and he could marry her after previously impregnating her (2 Samuel 11:2-27).

The simplest way for me to look at it -

God loves me, not because I’m good, but because he is.

His gift to me is His Mercy, Grace and Love and my gift back to him is what do I do with it.

If you’re an Audible guy, Pope Francis has an excellent one, The Name of God is Mercy.

Have a great weekend and have fun at church tomorrow. God Bless

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

View attachment 38460

Me, and on a good day