2022 Transfer Portal Discussion

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ecoperson said:
You're telling me that the $ beforehand were equal to those after? I've got a bridge to sell you!
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Sell away. The cheaters were paying similar prices you seen. Now there are a few outliers now like Tchweibwe getting 2 mill. this year. That one is maybe higher, but the fact remains these folks would just "hire" them once they were done and pay them then.
 

Holy Man said:
Johnny is probably right about prearranged agreements not yet public, but there is also the possibility that the people involved would like to remain private and are not sharing the details. Jones is the big mystery to me. On paper, he should be a highly sought after player, and subject to lots of conversation (i.e. gossip) and he is the one most like Witness Protection. That's really wierd. I would have expected internet geeks to just splash stuff out there about him, true or not.
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ecoperson said:
Interesting... some solid schools here. Having visited early in the transfer season, I am wondering if his offer was revoked after Cooper's commitment or if he was told that his minutes would be spot minutes?
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Or, the more likely explanation is, WE JUST STRUCK OUT...AGAIN.

Why is that so hard for some of you to say?
 




cjbfbp said:
Or, the more likely explanation is, WE JUST STRUCK OUT...AGAIN.

Why is that so hard for some of you to say?
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What do you have to base that on? You just think we so badly want every player who visits that if they don't commit it means they passed on the Gophers?

Did you say the same thing about McIntosh and Thompson from Purdue?
 

cjbfbp said:
Or, the more likely explanation is, WE JUST STRUCK OUT...AGAIN.

Why is that so hard for some of you to say?
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The reality is that none of knows what really went down so speculation on it either way is just that....speculation.

Some love to act like they know exactly what is going on, especially when it comes to recruiting even though the reality is that we have super limited info to go off of.

There was clearly mutual interest but in the end the player, the staff or both decided to go in a different direction. Unless the player or staff comes out and says exactly what happened (very unlikely) all we can really do in here is guess.
 

GopherPlaya said:
I mean he was on campus and everything fell off after Cooper's commitment. Maybe just maybe playing time/starter minutes were a factor as well
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And, maybe he didn't have the same offers then that he does now.

Here's his final five: Colorado State, California, Illinois State, Oklahoma, and Wake Forest making the cut.

Removing Illinois State from the group, the others are either more successful recently than this program and/or are located in more desirable places. My guess is that 95% of basketball players across the country would rather spend their final collegiate year playing in California, Colorado, or North Carolina than in Minnesota. It doesn't have to be all about basketball minutes. If it were, Michael Jones very likely would be coming here because his probability of starting here is much higher than perhaps any of his final three.
 



ecoperson said:
Interesting... some solid schools here. Having visited early in the transfer season, I am wondering if his offer was revoked after Cooper's commitment or if he was told that his minutes would be spot minutes?
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MNVCGUY said:
The reality is that none of knows what really went down so speculation on it either way is just that....speculation.

Some love to act like they know exactly what is going on, especially when it comes to recruiting even though the reality is that we have super limited info to go off of.

There was clearly mutual interest but in the end the player, the staff or both decided to go in a different direction. Unless the player or staff comes out and says exactly what happened (very unlikely) all we can really do in here is guess.
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Exactly. It's not like Ben is a slacker who doesn't "show love" (like Pitino had a penchant for doing). Ta'Lon Cooper noted that we were the school to go after him the hardest.

That tells me with Strong/Jones, they want to be guaranteed starter minutes, ~30 mpg. Ben probably said something along the lines of "you can come here and compete but we already have a PG and Mr. Basketball who I will also give a shot at those minutes" and they said "no thanks". Hell Cooper even moved up his commit to before his visit because of the implicit pressure of there being one high usage spot remaining.

I'm sure Ben would take Jones/Strong if they wanted to come here, but unless you have NIL money or NCAA postseason success to tout, at this point we won't have guys of that caliber come for a promise of 10-15 mpg and maybe more.
 

WriterGoph said:
What do you have to base that on? You just think we so badly want every player who visits that if they don't commit it means they passed on the Gophers?

Did you say the same thing about McIntosh and Thompson from Purdue?
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Simple. I have the record on my side. We're 0 for whatever on recruiting off/combo guards so far. You don't have the record on your side so you have to resort to spinning each loss as part of some grand plan by the coaching staff. Typical of your knee jerk reaction to quash any sort of negativity.
 

eker0016 said:
Exactly. It's not like Ben is a slacker who doesn't "show love" (like Pitino had a penchant for doing). Ta'Lon Cooper noted that we were the school to go after him the hardest.

That tells me with Strong/Jones, they want to be guaranteed starter minutes, ~30 mpg. Ben probably said something along the lines of "you can come here and compete but we already have a PG and Mr. Basketball who I will also give a shot at those minutes" and they said "no thanks". Hell Cooper even moved up his commit to before his visit because of the implicit pressure of there being one high usage spot remaining.

I'm sure Ben would take Jones/Strong if they wanted to come here, but unless you have NIL money or NCAA postseason success to tout, at this point we won't have guys of that caliber come for a promise of 10-15 mpg and maybe more.
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Do you honestly think that Jones, with a 62% career True Shooting Percentage, wouldn't start here? Do you honestly think all of the coaches of his final 3 said to him: "I guarantee you'll get at least 30 minutes per game here!" The spinning some of you go through just to avoid saying "We failed" is astonishing.
 

cjbfbp said:
Simple. I have the record on my side. We're 0 for whatever on recruiting off/combo guards so far. You don't have the record on your side so you have to resort to spinning each loss as part of some grand plan by the coaching staff. Typical of your knee jerk reaction to quash any sort of negativity.
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NAILED it.

There is nothing this staff can fail at that will be anything but roses for a couple of the above.
 

eker0016 said:
Exactly. It's not like Ben is a slacker who doesn't "show love" (like Pitino had a penchant for doing). Ta'Lon Cooper noted that we were the school to go after him the hardest.

That tells me with Strong/Jones, they want to be guaranteed starter minutes, ~30 mpg. Ben probably said something along the lines of "you can come here and compete but we already have a PG and Mr. Basketball who I will also give a shot at those minutes" and they said "no thanks". Hell Cooper even moved up his commit to before his visit because of the implicit pressure of there being one high usage spot remaining.

I'm sure Ben would take Jones/Strong if they wanted to come here, but unless you have NIL money or NCAA postseason success to tout, at this point we won't have guys of that caliber come for a promise of 10-15 mpg and maybe more.
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Agree 100% if this is the way the conversations went I would applaud the honesty from Ben, nothing can bring a team chemistry down with players not knowing what their roles are or what the expectations for playing time would be.
 

cjbfbp said:
Do you honestly think that Jones, with a 62% career True Shooting Percentage, wouldn't start here? Do you honestly think all of the coaches of his final 3 said to him: "I guarantee you'll get at least 30 minutes per game here!" The spinning some of you go through just to avoid saying "We failed" is astonishing.
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We have already discussed the Jones thing ad nauseum in his thread. Apparently you're not understanding the difference in quality of education at Northwestern and Stanford. Someone who knows his family also stated that his reasons are non-basketball.
 

WriterGoph said:
We have already discussed the Jones thing ad nauseum in his thread. Apparently you're not understanding the difference in quality of education at Northwestern and Stanford. Someone who knows his family also stated that his reasons are non-basketball.
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I'm a Ph.D. so I know a little about higher education, thank you very much. In fact, I said (on a number of occasions) that institutional pedigree could be a factor for someone who spent four years at Davidson. I do read your posts, but obviously you don't read mine unless you see something that feeds your compulsion to jump on any questioning or criticism.
 

cjbfbp said:
And, maybe he didn't have the same offers then that he does now.

Here's his final five: Colorado State, California, Illinois State, Oklahoma, and Wake Forest making the cut.

Removing Illinois State from the group, the others are either more successful recently than this program and/or are located in more desirable places. My guess is that 95% of basketball players across the country would rather spend their final collegiate year playing in California, Colorado, or North Carolina than in Minnesota. It doesn't have to be all about basketball minutes. If it were, Michael Jones very likely would be coming here because his probability of starting here is much higher than perhaps any of his final three.
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Where do you come up with this stuff? Let's just go by NCAA Tournament appearances in the last 10 seasons. Oklahoma is the only program of that group that has more appearances than the Gophers:

CSU - 2022, 2013
Minnesota - 2019, 2017, 2013
Cal - 2016, 2013
Oklahoma - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2021
Wake Forest - 2017

So I guess you want to use a different measure of success than making the Tournament?

Also, as far as your point about "more desirable places", how is a geographic location a transfer prefers a failure by Ben and his staff?!? There is nothing Ben can do about the location of our school or where a 22-year-old kid wants to spend his extra year(s). In fact, you bringing up geography as a driving force plays exactly into many of our points that these transfer decisions aren't always about basketball. Ben didn't fail if he has a 30-minute conversation with a transfer and they say "I'd rather be on the West Coast, Coach." It's ridiculous to pin that on him.

This isn't HS recruiting where coaches are building relationships for months/years with these teenagers. These are young men who have played in college and have specific wants for their next stops. They have tons of calls with coaches to feel the situations out and most of them pan out with it not being the right fit. The program may not have what the player specifically wants. Or the player may not have goals that align with the program.
 

cjbfbp said:
I'm a Ph.D. so I know a little about higher education, thank you very much. In fact, I said (on a number of occasions) that institutional pedigree could be a factor for someone who spent four years at Davidson. I do read your posts, but obviously you don't read mine unless you see something that feeds your compulsion to jump on any questioning or criticism.
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So if you're conceding that Jones may want a high-quality grad degree, how is that a failure by Ben? Seems like what the U offers was not a fit for his personal goals.
 



cjbfbp said:
Simple. I have the record on my side. We're 0 for whatever on recruiting off/combo guards so far. You don't have the record on your side so you have to resort to spinning each loss as part of some grand plan by the coaching staff. Typical of your knee jerk reaction to quash any sort of negativity.
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They haven't locked one down yet in the portal. That is just truthful. There is more context than just having a zero there though. The why is the issue. A lot of it fell off with Cooper committing which is pretty telling. I also don't think this staff sells false hope to kids. It can be annoying, but will most likely lead to less movement in the future. I am interested to see whom we add and how our freshman (mainly Carrington) are able to contribute.
 

cjbfbp said:
Do you honestly think that Jones, with a 62% career True Shooting Percentage, wouldn't start here? Do you honestly think all of the coaches of his final 3 said to him: "I guarantee you'll get at least 30 minutes per game here!" The spinning some of you go through just to avoid saying "We failed" is astonishing.
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That's not what I said. I absolutely think he would start here and would relegate Carrington to 5-10 mpg status.

I'm saying I'm not sure Ben wants that, possibly because of a promise he made to Carrington about playing time. Obviously I'm guessing, but the fact that all our guard recruiting dried up as soon as Cooper committed tells me he wants to get meaningful minutes to Carrington.

As a teacher over the years I've learned that a key to keeping students and parents happy is about managing expectations. Don't overpromise or underdeliver. If he wants to build relationships in MN and the first thing he does is bring in somebody to push his prize recruit Mr. Basketball to the bench, how does that come off?
 


eker0016 said:
That's not what I said. I absolutely think he would start here and would relegate Carrington to 5-10 mpg status.

I'm saying I'm not sure Ben wants that, possibly because of a promise he made to Carrington about playing time. Obviously I'm guessing, but the fact that all our guard recruiting dried up as soon as Cooper committed tells me he wants to get meaningful minutes to Carrington.

As a teacher over the years I've learned that a key to keeping students and parents happy is about managing expectations. Don't overpromise or underdeliver. If he wants to build relationships in MN and the first thing he does is bring in somebody to push his prize recruit Mr. Basketball to the bench, how does that come off?
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Ding ding ding!!!!
 


WriterGoph said:
Where do you come up with this stuff? Let's just go by NCAA Tournament appearances in the last 10 seasons. Oklahoma is the only program of that group that has more appearances than the Gophers:

CSU - 2022, 2013
Minnesota - 2019, 2017, 2013
Cal - 2016, 2013
Oklahoma - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2021
Wake Forest - 2017

So I guess you want to use a different measure of success than making the Tournament?

Also, as far as your point about "more desirable places", how is a geographic location a transfer prefers a failure by Ben and his staff?!? There is nothing Ben can do about the location of our school or where a 22-year-old kid wants to spend his extra year(s). In fact, you bringing up geography as a driving force plays exactly into many of our points that these transfer decisions aren't always about basketball. Ben didn't fail if he has a 30-minute conversation with a transfer and they say "I'd rather be on the West Coast, Coach." It's ridiculous to pin that on him.

This isn't HS recruiting where coaches are building relationships for months/years with these teenagers. These are young men who have played in college and have specific wants for their next stops. They have tons of calls with coaches to feel the situations out and most of them pan out with it not being the right fit. The program may not have what the player specifically wants. Or the player may not have goals that align with the program.
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Except for California, those programs have had better records lately. We've had three losing seasons in a row. Going back to NCAA tournament appearances nine years ago isn't relevant to the state of the program now.

I'm not tied to any narrative. I'm just calling what I see. Failures are failures; the reasons are not that important when it comes to evaluating the tenure of coaches. Monson, Tubby, and Pitino all had their reasons but in the end only their records mattered (although a record like Tubby's would look much better now).

This is a tough program to sell right now but Ben is going to have to find a way to do that or he'll follow the fates of his predecessors eventually. I haven't given up hope that Ben can land a decent transfer off guard for the upcoming season. I just hope he keeps trying.
 

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