All Things 2021 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

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TruthSeeker said:
Only because Murray is 10 years younger and cheaper.

Murray is nothing special.
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Murray has a much higher upside than Cousins, and he can move and run. Cousins is good, but he cannot get us to that next level. Did you notice on the long 1st half incomplete throw to JJ, JJ turned around and pointed to his shoulder, trying to tell Cousins to throw to his back-shoulder. That should be embarrassing to a veteran QB like Cousins.
 

LakevilleBro said:
Murray has a much higher upside than Cousins, and he can move and run. Cousins is good, but he cannot get us to that next level. Did you notice on the long 1st half incomplete throw to JJ, JJ turned around and pointed to his shoulder, trying to tell Cousins to throw to his back-shoulder. That should be embarrassing to a veteran QB like Cousins.
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Trust me, I'm no Cousins lover. But Murray isn't good either.
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
And there you have why spielman needs to go
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Danielle Hunter drafted 7 years ago. Here is the list of defensive players drafted since Danielle was drafted. You may want to cover your eyes.

Mackenzie Alexander
Kentrell Brothers
Stephen Weatherly
Jayson Kearse
Jaleel Johnson
Ben Gedion
Ifeadi Odenigbo
Elijah Lee
Jack Tocho
Mike Hughes
Jalyn Holmes
Ade Arunna
Devante Downs
Cameron Smith
Marcus Epps
Jeff Gladney
Cameron Dantzler
DJ Wonnum
James Lynch
Troy Dye
Harrison Hand
Josh Metellus
Kenny Willekes
Brian Cole
Chaz Surratt
Patrick Jones
Camryn Bynum
Janarious Robinson
Jalen Twyman
 


LakevilleBro said:
Murray has a much higher upside than Cousins, and he can move and run. Cousins is good, but he cannot get us to that next level. Did you notice on the long 1st half incomplete throw to JJ, JJ turned around and pointed to his shoulder, trying to tell Cousins to throw to his back-shoulder. That should be embarrassing to a veteran QB like Cousins.
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As a Cardinals season ticket holder, even I'm maybe not 100% sold on Murray just yet. He's so much fun to watch, and just electric, like nobody else that's ever played the position. But watching this late season collapse for the second season in a row, it really makes me wonder.

Not really worried about his durability like some others are because he is incredible at avoiding any real big hits. But damn, he's so short. You can tell there are plays where he just can't see very well.

And I have fully supported Kingsbury from the beginning, but again, the second consecutive late season nosedive is very very concerning. KK and Murray are kinda tied together, we'll see how it goes to close the season and if they can make any noise in the playoffs.

And yes, if for no other reason than the entertainment factor, I would take him over Cousins easily.
 



kg21 said:
They will never do it, but start Mond twice.

This is a rebuild, although the offense has some pieces next year.

Going into today, we were drafting 19th. This loss moves us all the way up to 11. Cant move up much more from there though, which sucks.

I believe we have 2 more games of Kirk Cousins, also.
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I know I’m probably in the minority but if they hire an offensive minded head coach, I’d like to see Cousins around for another year.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
As a Cardinals season ticket holder, even I'm maybe not 100% sold on Murray just yet. He's so much fun to watch, and just electric, like nobody else that's ever played the position. But watching this late season collapse for the second season in a row, it really makes me wonder.

Not really worried about his durability like some others are because he is incredible at avoiding any real big hits. But damn, he's so short. You can tell there are plays where he just can't see very well.

And I have fully supported Kingsbury from the beginning, but again, the second consecutive late season nosedive is very very concerning. KK and Murray are kinda tied together, we'll see how it goes to close the season and if they can make any noise in the playoffs.

And yes, if for no other reason than the entertainment factor, I would take him over Cousins easily.
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I think it's far too early to write off Murray. His size definitely limits him at times passing, but not having Hopkins hurts a lot, and he hasn't really been healthy since October. Murray also hasn't been the same since he was injured.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I think it's far too early to write off Murray. His size definitely limits him at times passing, but not having Hopkins hurts a lot, and he hasn't really been healthy since October. Murray also hasn't been the same since he was injured.
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All fair points. Isn't he frequently injured? I seem to recall he was hurt last year, but maybe I'm wrong.
 




kg21 said:
I'm fine with that, I'd just like to get a feel for Mond.
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Mond is horrible and inaccurate and not exactly earning playing time.
I know some consider him a project, but he's a wasted pick, plain and simple.

There is zero reason to believe he'll ever be a average NFL quarterback other than hope and the fact we haven't seen him play enough to realize how bad of a NFL QB he is and will be.
 

kg21 said:
Danielle Hunter drafted 7 years ago. Here is the list of defensive players drafted since Danielle was drafted. You may want to cover your eyes.

Mackenzie Alexander
Kentrell Brothers
Stephen Weatherly
Jayson Kearse
Jaleel Johnson
Ben Gedion
Ifeadi Odenigbo
Elijah Lee
Jack Tocho
Mike Hughes
Jalyn Holmes
Ade Arunna
Devante Downs
Cameron Smith
Marcus Epps
Jeff Gladney
Cameron Dantzler
DJ Wonnum
James Lynch
Troy Dye
Harrison Hand
Josh Metellus
Kenny Willekes
Brian Cole
Chaz Surratt
Patrick Jones
Camryn Bynum
Janarious Robinson
Jalen Twyman
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Spielman has been pure trash at drafting. People cling to the couple picks he made as if they were a big deal. But Danielle Hunter hasn't really done much for us these last few years but be injured.

He's similar to an Anthony Barr in that regard. Players might be all-pro, but if they don't play they aren't winning you any games.

Some people think guys like Wonnom might be players because they flash or because they start. YAY! Rick drafted 11 starters on defense! He's a really good GM.

And yes, if you allow the other team to run 70 plays a game, one of your defenders might get a sack or two giving you the perception that player might have a bright future.

The ability of the Vikings and KFAN to sucker people into buying tickets while Spielman has been GM is one of the greatest cases of fraud to ever hit our state.
 

Face The Facts said:
Spielman has been pure trash at drafting. People cling to the couple picks he made as if they were a big deal. But Danielle Hunter hasn't really done much for us these last few years but be injured.

He's similar to an Anthony Barr in that regard. Players might be all-pro, but if they don't play they aren't winning you any games.

Some people think guys like Wonnom might be players because they flash or because they start. YAY! Rick drafted 11 starters on defense! He's a really good GM.

And yes, if you allow the other team to run 70 plays a game, one of your defenders might get a sack or two giving you the perception that player might have a bright future.

The ability of the Vikings and KFAN to sucker people into buying tickets while Spielman has been GM is one of the greatest cases of fraud to ever hit our state.
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So they have drafted literally no one on defense in 7 years, have been trying to fix the offensive line year after year after year, and yet, Spielmann still has a job.

Then to top it off, the guys we sign are hurt or invisible. Pierce and Tomlinson, when they are both in, are supposed to be the Williams wall. You can run at will at them. Breeland was signed and blew chunks. Patrick Peterson has done well and that's it. The safety they signed, can't think of his name while posting this, has been blah.

Kendricks, Smith, and Barr are all aging quickly and don't make plays.

It's just a pile of shit. START OVER WITH A NEW REGIME. THAT'S TOP TO BOTTOM!
 



Face The Facts said:
Mond is horrible and inaccurate and not exactly earning playing time.
I know some consider him a project, but he's a wasted pick, plain and simple.

There is zero reason to believe he'll ever be a average NFL quarterback other than hope and the fact we haven't seen him play enough to realize how bad of a NFL QB he is and will be.
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Then you see it, move on, and don't drop 7 spots in the draft.

The Vikings won their last game last year. It was a totally meaningless game. They wanted Rashawn Slater in the draft. He has been all-pro this year. They tried to trade up to get him. Guess what, they don't win that meaningless game last year, they pick Slater at the spot they would have been .
 

kg21 said:
Then you see it, move on, and don't drop 7 spots in the draft.

The Vikings won their last game last year. It was a totally meaningless game. They wanted Rashawn Slater in the draft. He has been all-pro this year. They tried to trade up to get him. Guess what, they don't win that meaningless game last year, they pick Slater at the spot they would have been .
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Once Darrisaw started to play, he looked pretty damn good. And if winning the last game upset you, prepare to see them beat the Bears in the final week this year as well, costing them a few draft spots.

I think a lot of Vikings fans DRAMATICALLY underestimate the significance of not having D. Hunter rushing the QB in each of the last couple seasons. He's an elite pass rusher and a game changer. In my opinion, easily worth a couple wins each of these last two seasons. He's a premium player at a premium position, his absence has been massive.
 


Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Once Darrisaw started to play, he looked pretty damn good. And if winning the last game upset you, prepare to see them beat the Bears in the final week this year as well, costing them a few draft spots.

I think a lot of Vikings fans DRAMATICALLY underestimate the significance of not having D. Hunter rushing the QB in each of the last couple seasons. He's an elite pass rusher and a game changer. In my opinion, easily worth a couple wins each of these last two seasons. He's a premium player at a premium position, his absence has been massive.
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It didn't upset me, it was just typical Vikings. Drop in the draft in a meaningless game so you can't pick the guy you coveted.
 
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per Souhan:

With a 30-23 loss to the Rams at U.S. Bank Stadium on Sunday, the Vikings created two problems.

The first could get everyone fired.

The second could be really serious.

The Vikings' immediate predicament is that they have two games remaining in which to secure a playoff spot, and the first is at Lambeau Field.

Their bigger concern for the future of the franchise is that Justin Jefferson, their historically-great receiver, second-guessed the Vikings' offensive coaches, sounded confused about one throw from his quarterback and questioned the team's intensity.

Jefferson didn't throw a fit or raise his voice. This was a quiet storm. The Vikings might want to duct-tape their windows and shelter in the basement anyway.

"We came out way too slow," Jefferson said. "You know, we didn't have any energy in the first quarter. … I felt as soon as I came into the locker room, trying to pick up the guys. … We still didn't come up with that energy that we needed to.''

www.startribune.com

Justin Jefferson sets an NFL record, then sets off a quiet storm about the Vikings offense

The Vikings' immediate concern is their playoff position, but their bigger concern is Jefferson questioning his coaches, his quarterback and the team's intensity.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!
 

It'll be interesting to see what happens this week. New rules this year, teams can interview coaches these last two weeks of the season if they HAVE a HC opening already. Right now, this I think means only the Raiders and the Jags.

We could see some firings in the next couple days, teams will want to get a good jump on their primary candidate before they are gone. Not saying this is the Vikings but there are a few seats that are awfully warm around the league right now
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
It'll be interesting to see what happens this week. New rules this year, teams can interview coaches these last two weeks of the season if they HAVE a HC opening already. Right now, this I think means only the Raiders and the Jags.

We could see some firings in the next couple days, teams will want to get a good jump on their primary candidate before they are gone. Not saying this is the Vikings but there are a few seats that are awfully warm around the league right now
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Gotta think Speilman and Zimmer are a package deal. So the question is, is there an heir apparent to Spielman in-house that’s safe and can separate themselves from the mistakes of Spielman? I’d think that would be hard to do, so we are likely having to hire a front office lead and HC at the same time. I imagine that would make it more difficult to land a top HC candidate if they don’t know who their boss will be. I can’t see a Tomlin or another top tier candidate coming here without knowing the direction of the franchise.

I hope the Wilf’s have a plan ready to go from Day 1. Any fumbling of the process or seemingly lack of preparation is inexcusable. Then again, we are often our own worse emery.

Skol Vikes!!
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
It'll be interesting to see what happens this week. New rules this year, teams can interview coaches these last two weeks of the season if they HAVE a HC opening already. Right now, this I think means only the Raiders and the Jags.

We could see some firings in the next couple days, teams will want to get a good jump on their primary candidate before they are gone. Not saying this is the Vikings but there are a few seats that are awfully warm around the league right now
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Since we are the Vikings, wouldn't it seem logical that all the other teams fire their coach to get the jump and we wait until last?
 

TruthSeeker said:
All fair points. Isn't he frequently injured? I seem to recall he was hurt last year, but maybe I'm wrong.
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This will be the first year Hopkins hasn't played in at least 15 games. Murray started all 16 games the last two seasons.
 

The Vikings need to try and rebuild the defense with a new GM and coaching staff, and ride out Cousins for one more season. Good coaching and this team probably has at least 3 more wins, they are not that far away.

The QBs in this next draft leave a lot to be desired. The 2023 draft will be much better. I don't see them finding a better FA than Cousins if they found someone to trade him to, nor do they have a better one on the roster.
 

I'm not going to put to much concern if getting a jump on the head coaching changes.

If Wilf's are any good at their roles as owners, they would already have a agreement in place with the new GM whoever it will be (or awfully darn close to having a solid plan).

That GM should select the head coach, and if you pick the right GM, that GM already knows who the head coach leading candidate will be and that head coach lead candidate already understands.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I know I’m probably in the minority but if they hire an offensive minded head coach, I’d like to see Cousins around for another year.
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Cousins reminds me of Richard Pitino. Many local fans wanted both of them to stay, but the truth is, both had losing records and nothing really changes from year to year.
 

I'm at the point where I want a total rebuild. strip it down to the foundation and start over.

The Spielman/Zimmer era has been like trying to shove a square peg in a round hole. when it doesn't work, they want credit for trying to fix the problem. When the smart approach is to understand you have a round hole, and go out and find a round peg that actually fits in the hole.

there are just too many mismatched pieces on this team.

If you bring in a new GM and HC, it will take several years for them to get the players they want in place. that is not going to happen unless the Vikes get Cousins' salary cap hit off the board.

So, even if it means a couple of 5-12 or 6-11 type seasons, I would rather see a completely new approach.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I'm at the point where I want a total rebuild. strip it down to the foundation and start over.

The Spielman/Zimmer era has been like trying to shove a square peg in a round hole. when it doesn't work, they want credit for trying to fix the problem. When the smart approach is to understand you have a round hole, and go out and find a round peg that actually fits in the hole.

there are just too many mismatched pieces on this team.

If you bring in a new GM and HC, it will take several years for them to get the players they want in place. that is not going to happen unless the Vikes get Cousins' salary cap hit off the board.

So, even if it means a couple of 5-12 or 6-11 type seasons, I would rather see a completely new approach.
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Zimmer is not the right coach for this team. You can't play ball control, power football with a bad offensive line and a defensive line that cannot stop the run. They have some incredible skill position talent but the wrong supporting cast. Cousins isn't bad at all, he would be near all pro with a great line. With this offensive line, just a bit above average as he has minimal mobility and has to rush a lot of throws. Give him time and he's darn good.

You are right, square pegs in round holes. The parts are mismatched- just as you say. Enough stars to compete. Enough holes to lose a lot of games.
 

Thielen out for the rest of the regular season, ankle surgery.

theathletic.com

Vikings' Adam Thielen to miss rest of regular season after surgery for ankle injury: Sources

Minnesota Vikings wide receiver Adam Thielen will miss the rest of the regular season after undergoing surgery on his ankle on Tuesday, sources told The Athletic. The Vikings placed Thielen on injured reserve Wednesday. Thielen returned Sunday after missing two games because of a left ankle...
theathletic.com theathletic.com
 

Damn. There are probably good reasons why, but I feel like the offense was best with Thielen out there. Everyone in the league knows how spectacular JJ is, but if he's the only star, it just doesn't seem to get done.

With our OL struggles in pass protection, Kirk just doesn't have the pocket to make the great throws he mostly can only make when standing still. He's not a Rodgers sidearm, on the run, still makes an unbelievably perfect throw guy.

I also don't feel like Cook can carry the offense, either. Could be wrong there, but just doesn't feel like that. Was huge in the first half of Pittsburgh, but in Chicago he couldn't do much.


Defense can still be good enough to keep us in the game, if the offense can win it.


But, doesn't feel like we have a chance vs the Pack in Lambeau. And once we lose that game, it's over. No playoffs.

Zim and Spiel will be fired. Starting over.
 

Is it still physically possible the Vikings could back in at 8-9??

Ugh. Yes it is:

Packers (home) beat Vikings
Washington (home) beats Eagles
Bills (home) beat Falcons

Falcons (home) beat Saints
Vikings (home) beat Bears
Giants (home) beat Washington
Cowboys beat Eagles (home)

The last two are probably the least likely, if Cowboys rest their starters.

But this scenario and the Vikings are in, according to the NYT thing.
 

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