In all of these big boy games today, I've noticed

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Gophergrandpa said:
The rules favor passing over running. Foolish to avoid passing unless you believe your personnel is subpar.
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What do you think is the right mix of passing and running is for the Gophers?
 

Gophergrandpa said:
The rules favor passing over running. Foolish to avoid passing unless you believe your personnel is subpar.
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And until the NCAA figures out what to do about some sort of standardization of pass interference calls, "passing for penalties" will remain the playbooks for many OC's.
 
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Word said:
I would take our heavy run game from the last 3 games of this year or most of 2019. Illinois and BG wouldn't have beaten that offense.
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Illinois and BG did in fact beat our predictable heavy run game. 2019 and our last three games featured balance. That's why we looked better.
 

Dakota2 said:
Illinois and BG did in fact beat our predictable heavy run game. 2019 and our last three games featured balance. That's why we looked better.
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So you're agreeing with me? I think that's pretty much what I said.
 

Dakota2 said:
Illinois and BG did in fact beat our predictable heavy run game. 2019 and our last three games featured balance. That's why we looked better.
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Iowa and Ill games had some of the highest pass attempts this year for Morgan.
 


Word said:
Like our 2019 offense? Or Michigan this year?
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Our 2019 offense was balanced and not predictably weighted toward the run. Michigan, using last night as an example, was the same. A very good running game -- like Minnesota -- and a balanced attack with plenty of passing.

In crushing Iowa last night, Michigan threw 28 times for 250 yards. Hawks defense was reeling because they didn't know what was coming. Great coaching job by Harbaugh and staff.
 

Word said:
So you're agreeing with me? I think that's pretty much what I said.
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Of course I am agreeing and amplifying. From this latest reply I sense you would have wished for an argument.:cool:
 

PMWinSTP said:
Iowa and Ill games had some of the highest pass attempts this year for Morgan.
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Wasn't Illinois the game where Morgan had no time to throw but all the routes being run were deep? So maybe "balanced" in the sense of # of plays run, but poorly designed balance and that's why that OC is no longer employed here.
 

Used to be the big boys played walrus ball and clubbed inferior teams into submission with superior defense, special teams, and grinding offense. The evolution of the spread evened the playing field a little bit and little by little the big programs have been converting to spread style offense as that’s what’s necessary to compete. Alabama, Ohio State, USC, and so on.

Alabama and Georgia were about 40/60 run versus pass yesterday. Michigan was about 55/45 IIRC.

Michigan has a great line, some great running backs, but can put it in the air when necessary and Iowa is a little more vulnerable to the pass. Ciarrocca seems to be more aggressive. Maybe his return is contingent on more say on strategy versus certain teams.
 
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Dakota2 said:
Our 2019 offense was balanced and not predictably weighted toward the run. Michigan, using last night as an example, was the same. A very good running game -- like Minnesota -- and a balanced attack with plenty of passing.

In crushing Iowa last night, Michigan threw 28 times for 250 yards. Hawks defense was reeling because they didn't know what was coming. Great coaching job by Harbaugh and staff.
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I thought someone posted here that in 2019 we were 63% run? That would definitely be weighted toward run. I think the right formula for us is ~60% run, at least until we're at the level where we are consistently getting Bateman/Johnson type receivers on the field with a quality QB.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Iowa and Ill games had some of the highest pass attempts this year for Morgan.
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Morgan stats vs Morgan stats for this year not very informative. But refresh my memory -- what were the passing numbers against Illinois?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Used to be the big boys played walrus ball and clubbed inferior teams into submission with superior defense, special teams, and grinding offense. The evolution of the spread evened the playing field a little bit and little by little the big programs have been converting to spread style offense as that’s what’s necessary to compete. Alabama, Ohio State, USC, and so on.

Alabama and Georgia were about 40/60 run versus pass yesterday. Michigan was about 55/45 IIRC.

Michigan has a great line, some great running backs, but can put it in the air when necessary and Iowa is more vulnerable to the pass, as we saw. Imagine doing what the defense is begging you to do?
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The other notable feature of the good teams on offense is that they play at a much faster pace than Minnesota has the last two years. Good teams don't run play clock down simply to shorten the game. They view offensive possessions as an opportunity, not a danger.

Playing at a faster pace makes defense more difficult. Well known.
 

I think there’s some survivorship bias here.

Just because championship teams are doing a thing doesn’t mean that if you do it you will be a championship team or that you’re any good at doing the thing.

We had a few games we really had control of the game and just ran it. Nothing wrong with that.

Different teams, different players and so on.
 



Dakota2 said:
The other notable feature of the good teams on offense is that they play at a much faster pace than Minnesota has the last two years. Good teams don't run play clock down simply to shorten the game. They view offensive possessions as an opportunity, not a danger.

Playing at a faster pace makes defense more difficult. Well known.
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Running the clock down keeps your defense off the field and makes it more difficult for the opponent to score. Pros and cons to both. Balance and flexibility are good though. It's nice to be able to have multiple ways to beat your opponent.
 

Word said:
Wasn't Illinois the game where Morgan had no time to throw but all the routes being run were deep? So maybe "balanced" in the sense of # of plays run, but poorly designed balance and that's why that OC is no longer employed here.
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Yeah, just utilizing the short passing game as a subsitute for runs when the defense is begging you to do so would be a nice start. Good riddance.
 

Word said:
Running the clock down keeps your defense off the field and makes it more difficult for the opponent to score. Pros and cons to both.
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I feel like if you ask Tanner and Company to suddenly be Alabama it would be more than a little disappointed.

Not a knock on Tanner or anything.
 

Teams with tons of talent can succeed in a multitude of styles. Obviously passing a lot works well when you have nfl talent at QB, oline, tightend, and wrs. Why hasn’t Purdue been better, or Miss St, or other air raid teams?
 

Word said:
Running the clock down keeps your defense off the field and makes it more difficult for the opponent to score. Pros and cons to both. Balance and flexibility are good though. It's nice to be able to have multiple ways to beat your opponent.
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Agree if you’re vastly overmatched versus say, Ohio State reducing their scoring chances and hoping for turnovers seems smart but I don’t know, with a very good MN defense this year but a constipated offense running the clock down (when behind on several occasions this year!) coaches are increasing the odds of something catastrophic happening by reducing number of own scoring opportunities, and increasing the odds of an inferior team upsetting them. I can see both sides, though.
 

btowngopher said:
Teams with tons of talent can succeed in a multitude of styles. Obviously passing a lot works well when you have nfl talent at QB, oline, tightend, and wrs. Why hasn’t Purdue been better, or Miss St, or other air raid teams?
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Gotta have a good defense, balanced offense. Competent special teams. Then it’s up to the football gods.

Purdue and Leach are pretty extreme examples. Leach has done OK at various times.
 

Dakota2 said:
Our 2019 offense was balanced and not predictably weighted toward the run. Michigan, using last night as an example, was the same. A very good running game -- like Minnesota -- and a balanced attack with plenty of passing.

In crushing Iowa last night, Michigan threw 28 times for 250 yards. Hawks defense was reeling because they didn't know what was coming. Great coaching job by Harbaugh and staff.
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The Iowa forum was littered with people whining about Michigan running up the score. Fleck would have been running clock a lot earlier in that game, which is part of why we end up so run heavy.
 

btowngopher said:
The Iowa forum was littered with people whining about Michigan running up the score. Fleck would have been running clock a lot earlier in that game, which is part of why we end up so run heavy.
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Iowa fans boo injuries, that should tell you something.
 

Word said:
What do you think is the right mix of passing and running is for the Gophers?
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Of course it depends upon how good the defender is against the run and how well the Gophers are controlling the game. We like running because we're pretty good at it and running chews up a lot of clock. Below are the game by game results of portion of total offensive plays that were running plays. The overall average was 69% running but there was significant variation in games.

PercentPassingRushing
Rushing playsOpponentResultAttYdsAttYds
0.667​
Ohio StateL (31-45)
25​
205​
50​
203​
0.730​
Miami (OH)W (31-26)
17​
112​
46​
175​
0.757​
ColoradoW (30-0)
17​
164​
53​
277​
0.776​
Bowling Green StateL (10-14)
13​
59​
45​
182​
0.640​
PurdueW (20-13)
18​
169​
32​
131​
0.632​
NebraskaW (30-23)
25​
214​
43​
182​
0.812​
MarylandW (34-16)
13​
125​
56​
326​
0.757​
NorthwesternW (41-14)
17​
134​
53​
308​
0.538​
IllinoisL (6-14)
30​
200​
35​
89​
0.602​
IowaL (22-27)
33​
220​
50​
189​
0.706​
IndianaW (35-14)
20​
196​
48​
195​
0.686​
WisconsinW (23-13)
16​
199​
35​
83​
0.691​
AverageTotals
244​
546​

The highest percentage was for the Maryland game. Their defense was a sieve against the run and we controlled that game pretty much the whole way. The lowest percentage was the Illinois game. Their defense clamped down on the run pretty well and their offense had two quick scores and forced us to play catch up for the rest of the game. Bowling Green had the second highest percentage and that sure didn't work but our passing game was remarkably awful in that one.

The Iowa game had one of the lowest percentages. Perhaps we went into that game thinking that we wouldn't be able to run against them but we ran fairly effectively in that one. The Wisconsin game had a much higher run percentage despite the fact that we didn't get a lot of rushing yards per attempt. Perhaps the fairly heavy running distribution was attributable to our defense holding them to even fewer rushing yards and the fact that our offense, while not throwing a lot of passes, had an excellent yards per attempt average.
 

Screenshot 2021-12-05 105035.pngScreenshot 2021-12-05 104832.png

Gophers were close to the Service Academies in rankings of Passes per game and runs per game.
 


cjbfbp said:
Of course it depends upon how good the defender is against the run and how well the Gophers are controlling the game. We like running because we're pretty good at it and running chews up a lot of clock. Below are the game by game results of portion of total offensive plays that were running plays. The overall average was 69% running but there was significant variation in games.

PercentPassingRushing
Rushing playsOpponentResultAttYdsAttYds
0.667​
Ohio StateL (31-45)
25​
205​
50​
203​
0.730​
Miami (OH)W (31-26)
17​
112​
46​
175​
0.757​
ColoradoW (30-0)
17​
164​
53​
277​
0.776​
Bowling Green StateL (10-14)
13​
59​
45​
182​
0.640​
PurdueW (20-13)
18​
169​
32​
131​
0.632​
NebraskaW (30-23)
25​
214​
43​
182​
0.812​
MarylandW (34-16)
13​
125​
56​
326​
0.757​
NorthwesternW (41-14)
17​
134​
53​
308​
0.538​
IllinoisL (6-14)
30​
200​
35​
89​
0.602​
IowaL (22-27)
33​
220​
50​
189​
0.706​
IndianaW (35-14)
20​
196​
48​
195​
0.686​
WisconsinW (23-13)
16​
199​
35​
83​
0.691​
AverageTotals
244​
546​

The highest percentage was for the Maryland game. Their defense was a sieve against the run and we controlled that game pretty much the whole way. The lowest percentage was the Illinois game. Their defense clamped down on the run pretty well and their offense had two quick scores and forced us to play catch up for the rest of the game. Bowling Green had the second highest percentage and that sure didn't work but our passing game was remarkably awful in that one.

The Iowa game had one of the lowest percentages. Perhaps we went into that game thinking that we wouldn't be able to run against them but we ran fairly effectively in that one. The Wisconsin game had a much higher run percentage despite the fact that we didn't get a lot of rushing yards per attempt. Perhaps the fairly heavy running distribution was attributable to our defense holding them to even fewer rushing yards and the fact that our offense, while not throwing a lot of passes, had an excellent yards per attempt average.
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Twelve of the passing attempts in the IL game came on the last two drives in the fourth quarter with 9 minutes to go, in desperation time. The game plan was to run, run, run, no matter what the defense was doing. Playing from behind and being forced to pass puts a lot more pressure on Morgan and sure enough the last drive ended in an interception.
 

No one is saying you need the Alabama passing offense, just that you need to be able to have one.

Big plays happen in a passing game, also.

Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota are going to have little to no chance playing in a big 10 championship or ever reaching the CFP playoffs with literally no passing game.
 

kg21 said:
No one is saying you need the Alabama passing offense, just that you need to be able to have one.

Big plays happen in a passing game, also.

Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota are going to have little to no chance playing in a big 10 championship or ever reaching the CFP playoffs with literally no passing game.
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Were you ok with the passing game in 2019?
 



Good college football offenses average over 6 yards per play. It's damn near impossible to do that if you don't throw the ball.

Every down you don't throw, you give up 1-2 yards in expected gain and put yourself behind the sticks.

Minnesota averaged 8.85 yards per attempt throwing the ball this year and 4.71 running. Gave up nearly four yards per play everytime they ran the ball.

If you're a run-heavy team and you have one negative play, then you're punting, on average. If you're a pass-heavy team, then you have a much better chance of making the sticks (and more importantly, keeping possession).

I'm not saying you need to go full air raid, but there is a clear advantage to teams that are comfortable running a balanced offense.
 
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