This isn't going as planned

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manderson1984 said:
I get that everyone says it, but then why are some programs better at it than others? Certain people live and breath it. Just watch the type of recruits we have. We will see if they can actually do it
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Is Ihnen gritty?
 


manderson1984 said:
We will find out. He wants to be here. If he ain’t, Battle and others will take his minutes.
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Based on the last two seasons?

Apparently he is the only one of those that left that has any level of grit.
 


when is Payne signing? There was an article on 247 how the visit was “perfect” here.
 



Johnnyboy18 said:
What's with the obsession with the center position on GH? More than half the teams in the Big Ten started two forwards and didn't start a true center. Ohio State, Wisconsin, Maryland, MSU, Indiana, Penn State, Nebraska, and even Minnesota after Robbins went out.
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This is quite the statement. Ohio St didn't start a center? Huh EJ Liddell is a beast down low. Trayce Jackson Davis didn't do anything for you at Ind? I guess 19-9 isn't good. Micah Potter was WI 2nd best player and put up 18-11 against us, Harrar was hurt most of the year for PSU but came back and went 12-11 against us. And most of those were with Robbins (some while he was dinged up)

I think you mistake the word "center " as only a guy like Kofi. Nowadays centers shoot as well. Again we gave up plenty to opposing bigs with a great def guy in Liam. If we have Curry, TT and SFA guy its going to be an absolute massacre by opposing bigs, I don't much care if they play in the post or outside. Those 3 have no shot against a talented big man.
 

leib0039 said:
This is quite the statement. Ohio St didn't start a center? Huh EJ Liddell is a beast down low. Trayce Jackson Davis didn't do anything for you at Ind? I guess 19-9 isn't good. Micah Potter was WI 2nd best player and put up 18-11 against us, Harrar was hurt most of the year for PSU but came back and went 12-11 against us. And most of those were with Robbins (some while he was dinged up)

I think you mistake the word "center " as only a guy like Kofi. Nowadays centers shoot as well. Again we gave up plenty to opposing bigs with a great def guy in Liam. If we have Curry, TT and SFA guy its going to be an absolute massacre by opposing bigs, I don't much care if they play in the post or outside. Those 3 have no shot against a talented big man.
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Thank you for proving my point by listing 4 forwards.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Thank you for proving my point by listing 4 forwards.
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Thank you for not watching basketball over the past 20 years. I dont much care if you call them a point guard, wing, a center or a forward. In 2021 there is a thing called "positionless basketball". The point is those players are the ones that Curry/TT/SFA will have to match up with, and those guys will ALL roast those players. You want to call Donta Scott a forward, sure go for it I could care less. In two games against us he went 23 points and 22 rebounds. That will happen all season long against this team. I dont care if its Ihnen/Battle/Curry/TT whoever against them. We needed to get a Manley/Mitchell type that could at least provide a little competition for those type of players. If you think there is anyone on this current roster that can provide that then you are just wrong. Can you scheme to help some of those deficiencies, yes you can. But that doesnt alleviate just having a big talented defender out there. Honestly some people on this board are just blind to facts.
 



BarnBurner said:
Based on the last two seasons?

Apparently he is the only one of those that left that has any level of grit.
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I think he was a case of being mismanaged and I’m excited to see. He did improve as a defender. Took terrible shots offensively, but so did everyone. Seems pretty low risk once we added Fox and Battle and he always seemed like a good citizen. I would’ve been fine with some others back too, but they didn’t want to here and that’s fine. I’ll take people who want to here. Honestly the only ones I really wanted back were Gabe, Curry, Ihnen, and Johnson. The rest I was fine seeing go. Now that we replaced Gabe with Lowe and Johnson with Parker Fox (yes I know he’s hurt), I don’t mind that they left too. Curry I’m just a fan of his leadership and he’ll be a good bridge for Ben.
 

Northeastgopher said:
We can debate how good Freeman was, whether he fit Ben’s plans or not and I think there are fair points on both sides.. However, the reality is we have Curry as our likely starting center right now who was planning on retiring from the sport. In my opinion that means this position was completely mismanaged. Even if this is a rebuilding year it seems inexcusable that we couldn’t find someone big bodied who wanted big ten starting minutes and instead are left with a giant hole at the position. This is high level D1 basketball and the expectation should be to put out as competitive of a roster as possible every year.
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I don't disagree with your overall post but I'm not convinced that the bolded portion is correct. I would say that, of the players on the team now, Ihnen would be more likely to start at center than Curry. He's quicker, more mobile, has a better reach, and rebounds better at this point in their careers. It could be that the "center" position might be split among those on the team now and possibly one to be added. I don't think Curry plays starter type minutes unless he's made a surprising physical recovery.
 

leib0039 said:
This is quite the statement. Ohio St didn't start a center? Huh EJ Liddell is a beast down low. Trayce Jackson Davis didn't do anything for you at Ind? I guess 19-9 isn't good. Micah Potter was WI 2nd best player and put up 18-11 against us, Harrar was hurt most of the year for PSU but came back and went 12-11 against us. And most of those were with Robbins (some while he was dinged up)

I think you mistake the word "center " as only a guy like Kofi. Nowadays centers shoot as well. Again we gave up plenty to opposing bigs with a great def guy in Liam. If we have Curry, TT and SFA guy its going to be an absolute massacre by opposing bigs, I don't much care if they play in the post or outside. Those 3 have no shot against a talented big man.
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So if Robbins got worked so bad, what’s the difference in trying the three we have? Maybe Thompson and Daniels can defend well. Ive not heard, but Im not really scared either because we had loads of size last year and still didn’t do squat.
In all honesty we did try and get guys. Who really thought that you wouldn’t get one of them and that Fox would get hurt. Some bad luck and some bad choices on whom they gave effort too, but let’s see what else the staff adds. I understand the concern to a point, but if we have better overall team defense, you can still win games. Honestly I’d rather defend the post more poorly than the perimeter.
 

leib0039 said:
Thank you for not watching basketball over the past 20 years. I dont much care if you call them a point guard, wing, a center or a forward. In 2021 there is a thing called "positionless basketball". The point is those players are the ones that Curry/TT/SFA will have to match up with, and those guys will ALL roast those players. You want to call Donta Scott a forward, sure go for it I could care less. In two games against us he went 23 points and 22 rebounds. That will happen all season long against this team. I dont care if its Ihnen/Battle/Curry/TT whoever against them. We needed to get a Manley/Mitchell type that could at least provide a little competition for those type of players. If you think there is anyone on this current roster that can provide that then you are just wrong. Can you scheme to help some of those deficiencies, yes you can. But that doesnt alleviate just having a big talented defender out there. Honestly some people on this board are just blind to facts.
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That ship has sailed. You can't force people to come here. Perhaps Johnson will add another big man and the interior can be handled by committee until a leader emerges.

This is not a disaster like WWII, a famine, a flood, or a plague. At worst all we're in for is watching some weak basketball play. Most of us have done plenty of that in our past and we're not much worse off for it today.
 



manderson1984 said:
So if Robbins got worked so bad, what’s the difference in trying the three we have? Maybe Thompson and Daniels can defend well. Ive not heard, but Im not really scared either because we had loads of size last year and still didn’t do squat.
In all honesty we did try and get guys. Who really thought that you wouldn’t get one of them and that Fox would get hurt. Some bad luck and some bad choices on whom they gave effort too, but let’s see what else the staff adds. I understand the concern to a point, but if we have better overall team defense, you can still win games. Honestly I’d rather defend the post more poorly than the perimeter.
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Who I’ll make up for Robbins scoring?
 


cjbfbp said:
That ship has sailed. You can't force people to come here. Perhaps Johnson will add another big man and the interior can be handled by committee until a leader emerges.

This is not a disaster like WWII, a famine, a flood, or a plague. At worst all we're in for is watching some weak basketball play. Most of us have done plenty of that in our past and we're not much worse off for it today.
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I agree with what you are saying and what manderson said in reply as well. Totally agree they tried and we didnt end up with guys and bad luck, I guess more my point was someone stating some teams didnt play "centers". I dont care what you call them, our interior defense/rebounding looks weak/slow and in the B1G against many of these teams that is an issue. As I said, hopefully we can scheme around that (hopefully that gets a boost with Pitino gone) and make up for some lack of talent.
 

I do wonder about the Fox injury disclosure and his commitment sig date. If the injury info came out after the sig date. We know Ben buys cars with square wheels.
 


cjbfbp said:
That ship has sailed. You can't force people to come here. Perhaps Johnson will add another big man and the interior can be handled by committee until a leader emerges.

This is not a disaster like WWII, a famine, a flood, or a plague. At worst all we're in for is watching some weak basketball play. Most of us have done plenty of that in our past and we're not much worse off for it today.
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Gopher Basketball: Hey at least it's not the plague!
 

Four years. Give these coaches four years.

If you want push-button instant noodles, you are not getting it. They have to make the noodles from scratch, but they will taste better than instant noodles.
 

manderson1984 said:
Offensively the all will move a lot more. I’m guessing their will be a lot of movement off the ball. Guessing their will be plenty of ball screens. We will be playing a slower pace offensively this year for sure.
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I'm not sure I agree. How many possessions turned into 25 seconds of dribbling by Carr followed by a 3-pt attempt with the shot clock running down?

Compared to that, if players are sharing the ball, making passes, setting screens and cutting, they may not be taking more shots, but the ball will be moving and at least it will hopefully be more entertaining to watch. That type of system could also hopefully put players in a position to get better shots, higher-percentage shots, or shots that come in the natural flow of the offense.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I'm not sure I agree. How many possessions turned into 25 seconds of dribbling by Carr followed by a 3-pt attempt with the shot clock running down?

Compared to that, if players are sharing the ball, making passes, setting screens and cutting, they may not be taking more shots, but the ball will be moving and at least it will hopefully be more entertaining to watch. That type of system could also hopefully put players in a position to get better shots, higher-percentage shots, or shots that come in the natural flow of the offense.
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Good point. Our pace was slower last year. We might have similar paces, but hopefully less possessions because we are defending longer.
 

manderson1984 said:
Good point. Our pace was slower last year. We might have similar paces, but hopefully less possessions because we are defending longer.
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Defending longer?
Doesn't defense last until change of possession?
 

BarnBurner said:
Defending longer?
Doesn't defense last until change of possession?
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Correct, but when you defend well in a man with gap help, you will most likely create longer possessions and in turn be defending for longer periods of time. Teams got whatever they wanted offensively against us and quickly last season.
 


I would like to see more off the ball screens for shooters (maybe we will, with better shooters). We started the year running some screen action for Gabe but, once he showed that he still couldn’t knock down shots, we went away from it.
 

hungan1 said:
Four years. Give these coaches four years.

If you want push-button instant noodles, you are not getting it. They have to make the noodles from scratch, but they will taste better than instant noodles.
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He is going to get 3 years to show hope.
If no hope is shown, no 4th year.
If hope is shown, he gets a 4th and likely 5th year.
 

Some guy said:
He is going to get 3 years to show hope.
If no hope is shown, no 4th year.
If hope is shown, he gets a 4th and likely 5th year.
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I think if he gets a good to very good 2022 class he will have long term success here. If not, I don't think he will ever get over the hump. This class is that important. Early momentum is a must.
 

bga1 said:
I think if he gets a good to very good 2022 class he will have long term success here. If not, I don't think he will ever get over the hump. This class is that important. Early momentum is a must.
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What's very good? I used to believe so, but the way you can turn over rosters so quickly now, doesn't make it a requirement to me, but our definitions may be different of really good is. I would consider any class lead by Payne and Carrington very good. Some require Tre Holloman for it to be good, but I do not.
 

^^I can't argue with that, but I do wonder if these '22 guys will give it some time with him before committing anywhere. You can't tell me that recruits don't want to see a coach in action on the bench. What's he like, how does he act in-game? What's he like at practice? College coaches aren't always what they seem during recruiting. Great guys recruiting, assholes on the bench/practice. A little time may shed light on BJ and what kind of guy he is as a coach. If a kid really wants to know these things, UM might not get their commitment. I have no idea what he's like, but I do think this can be a problem with an unknown.
 

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