Reports: Minnesota Crookston, St. Cloud State to drop football

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Why? All SCSU needs to do is hire a guy who'll go on to win more games than any other college football coach in history. How tough can that be?

I'm reminded of a story about Radiohead selling an album from their own site directly online for whatever anyone wanted to pay.

Someone wrote an article about how other bands could do that:

Step 1: Be Radiohead.

Because it is just that simple.

 

[Panthadad2]

I think it is a bit much to say they should just be St. John's....

No shiite sherlock. So if you can't actually BE St. John's, just give up. Right? No need to even try to use football as a marketing tool to generate excitement among students and alumni.

 

[IceBoxGopher]

(MSU Moorhead grad here)

I figured some change was going to come to Crookston rather soon, but I thought they might move to DIII rather than eliminate the football program all together. Maybe they didn't see much of a future for the program overall, though.

The move from NAIA to DII has been tough for some schools. Minnesota State Moorhead has just found some consistent success for really the first time since the 90s, and I can imagine it's much harder of a change for schools like Crookston.

As for St. Cloud State, I think there was talk of the football program ending a few years ago, but I might be mistaken. I suppose I can understand the move, though, free up some money and they can remain committed to hockey.

I'm curious to see what happens with the NSIC going forward.

 

[MplsGopher]

The problem with crookston being so bad in the nsic is they cannot out recruit schools in their conference. Who would pick crookston over duluth, bemidji, mankato etc

Did they even have scholarships? They were so poorly funded.


How in the world does Morris still have football? Better question: why are Crookston and Morris (still) a part of the U of Minnesota?? It should just be Twin Cities, Duluth, and Rochester, in my opinion. The most important areas in the state.

 

[MplsGopher]

(MSU Moorhead grad here)

I figured some change was going to come to Crookston rather soon, but I thought they might move to DIII rather than eliminate the football program all together. Maybe they didn't see much of a future for the program overall, though.

The move from NAIA to DII has been tough for some schools. Minnesota State Moorhead has just found some consistent success for really the first time since the 90s, and I can imagine it's much harder of a change for schools like Crookston.

As for St. Cloud State, I think there was talk of the football program ending a few years ago, but I might be mistaken. I suppose I can understand the move, though, free up some money and they can remain committed to hockey.

I'm curious to see what happens with the NSIC going forward.

Do you think there's any chance St Cloud might try to follow Omaha's path?

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

No shiite sherlock. So if you can't actually BE St. John's, just give up. Right? No need to even try to use football as a marketing tool to generate excitement among students and alumni.

It was your suggestion...

 

[LakerFan]

UST will have some hard decisions to make. It certainly will not be able to afford . . .

DI Basketball
DI Hockey
DI FCS (scholarship 63) football

I’d guess that football will be DI FCS - 0 scholarships in the Pioneer League with Butler, Drake, Valpo, etc. And I’d venture to guess that 21 sports will end up being 14-16. U North Dakota is supporting BB, Hockey and 63 scholly FB, but others have cut football (Omaha) or stayed DII.

UST is flush with cash. High end private school, huge affluent alumni following, turning away students at 30K a year tuition located in the middle of huge metro. SCSU is a middling size city, bleeding enrollment at 8K a year tuition. Not similar situations.

 

[MplsGopher]

Plus SC had the Title IX lawsuit ruling. That seems to be the prime mover on this, although the attorney for the women who brought the lawsuit refutes that claim.

He says SC could've added one women's sport and been in compliance. Instead, I think SC was looking to cut costs, but that reason alone was never good enough to axe football. Now they had a good enough reason.

Mankato and Bemidji's gain, I guess. Although, I still wonder if St Cloud, Duluth, Mankato, and Bemidji wouldn't all be better off trying to go the Omaha route.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Plus SC had the Title IX lawsuit ruling. That seems to be the prime mover on this, although the attorney for the women who brought the lawsuit refutes that claim.

He says SC could've added one women's sport and been in compliance. Instead, I think SC was looking to cut costs, but that reason alone was never good enough to axe football. Now they had a good enough reason.

Mankato and Bemidji's gain, I guess. Although, I still wonder if St Cloud, Duluth, Mankato, and Bemidji wouldn't all be better off trying to go the Omaha route.

They also get to axe additional women's sports and still be in compliance.

 

[Panthadad2]

Plus SC had the Title IX lawsuit ruling. That seems to be the prime mover on this, although the attorney for the women who brought the lawsuit refutes that claim.

He says SC could've added one women's sport and been in compliance. Instead, I think SC was looking to cut costs, but that reason alone was never good enough to axe football. Now they had a good enough reason.

Mankato and Bemidji's gain, I guess. Although, I still wonder if St Cloud, Duluth, Mankato, and Bemidji wouldn't all be better off trying to go the Omaha route.

I think you're right. SCSU spent about $1.1M on football and $118K on golf. Other NSIC soccer teams spend about $250K-$450K on women's soccer (assuming men's soccer would be similar) so that's a big savings. Seeing how men's soccer isn't currently an NSIC sport, I wonder if SCSU will go independent or if other schools are adding.

 

[MplsGopher]

I think you're right. SCSU spent about $1.1M on football and $118K on golf. Other NSIC soccer teams spend about $250K-$450K on women's soccer (assuming men's soccer would be similar) so that's a big savings. Seeing how men's soccer isn't currently an NSIC sport, I wonder if SCSU will go independent or if other schools are adding.

Summit League has it ... ...........

 

[GophersInIowa]

Did they even have scholarships? They were so poorly funded.

Yes they do. D-II allows 36 full scholarships. But you can give partial scholarships so more than 36 guys get at least something. The NSIC conference for the longest time had a scholarship max of 24 for their members (for balance purposes). I don't think UMC ever had the funding for 24 scholarships but it was usually in the 15-20 range I believe so for awhile they were able to remain somewhat competitive.

When the NCC folded and they added back UMD and schools like MN St, the conference eventually changed to 36. Most schools could get up to 36 but UMC will never get close. D-III isn't really an option last I heard. They would never get added to the MIAC of course. At one time the UMAC had a moratorium on adding more schools. Either way, the travel would be hard to do.

 

[RodentRampage]

I could see a new conference forming, with some of the bottom dwellers of the NSIC leaving and picking up some others. Minot State joined the conference in 2012, and hasn't won more than 3 games since 2010. Minnesota Morris is kind of an oddball in the UMAC, they might fit in better in a new conference with schools like Crookston and Minot State.

 

[Herd]

UST is flush with cash. High end private school, huge affluent alumni following, turning away students at 30K a year tuition located in the middle of huge metro. SCSU is a middling size city, bleeding enrollment at 8K a year tuition. Not similar situations.

You realize that to fund 21 sports at the DI level in the Summit/MVFC/NCHC it would take a $30+ Million athletic budget. Und and Ndsu are at $28M with 16 sports. What’s UST athletic budget today? 2 or 3?

 

[disco]

I literally can't see the reason for UM-Crookston to exist. Within 100 miles, there are multiple 4-year colleges in better locations. I'm not even sure what niche it is supposed to fill. Morris has some unique things going for it and is a very highly regarded public liberal arts school.

But Crookston should always have been a D3 school.

 

[GoForGold]

Did they even have scholarships? They were so poorly funded.


How in the world does Morris still have football? Better question: why are Crookston and Morris (still) a part of the U of Minnesota?? It should just be Twin Cities, Duluth, and Rochester, in my opinion. The most important areas in the state.

Morris is in the middle of nowhere but it is very well regarded academically, esp. for it's science programs.

 

[disco]

(MSU Moorhead grad here)

I figured some change was going to come to Crookston rather soon, but I thought they might move to DIII rather than eliminate the football program all together. Maybe they didn't see much of a future for the program overall, though.

The move from NAIA to DII has been tough for some schools. Minnesota State Moorhead has just found some consistent success for really the first time since the 90s, and I can imagine it's much harder of a change for schools like Crookston.

As for St. Cloud State, I think there was talk of the football program ending a few years ago, but I might be mistaken. I suppose I can understand the move, though, free up some money and they can remain committed to hockey.

I'm curious to see what happens with the NSIC going forward.

MSUM alum here as well. I seriously wonder how many of the NSIC schools might not take this same route. There is virtually no interest (unless something has changed) in MSUM football. It's overshadowed in the FM area by the death star that is the Bison (even when both schools were d2 for a time), and even by Concordia, which has it's oh-so-special-we're in the MIAC thing going for it.

I know when I was there, the campus mostly cleared out on weekends. Lot of kids went home to their small towns to party, and virtually nobody lived on campus beyond sophomore year (and a lot of us lived in Fargo, where the housing options were so much nicer than the slums around campus) and felt no reason to go back over to Moorhead on a Saturday.

Realistically, other than Mankato, which is really trying to become a more major regional university, does ANY NSIC team garner much support for football? I suppose maybe out of the way places like Wayne State or Upper Iowa where there isn't anything else.

I'm also wondering if there won't be a time soon when the state looks at closing one or more of the state universities. St. Cloud's enrollment is way down, and MSUM is almost half of what it was when I was there.

 

[RodentRampage]

Morris is in the middle of nowhere but it is very well regarded academically, esp. for it's science programs.

Morris is one of the top rated public liberal arts colleges in the country. US News and World Report ranks it #8, and the top three are the Naval Acadamy, West Point and the Air Force Academy.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/top-public

 

[GoForGold]

MSUM alum here as well. I seriously wonder how many of the NSIC schools might not take this same route. There is virtually no interest (unless something has changed) in MSUM football. It's overshadowed in the FM area by the death star that is the Bison (even when both schools were d2 for a time), and even by Concordia, which has it's oh-so-special-we're in the MIAC thing going for it.

I know when I was there, the campus mostly cleared out on weekends. Lot of kids went home to their small towns to party, and virtually nobody lived on campus beyond sophomore year (and a lot of us lived in Fargo, where the housing options were so much nicer than the slums around campus) and felt no reason to go back over to Moorhead on a Saturday.

Realistically, other than Mankato, which is really trying to become a more major regional university, does ANY NSIC team garner much support for football? I suppose maybe out of the way places like Wayne State or Upper Iowa where there isn't anything else.

I'm also wondering if there won't be a time soon when the state looks at closing one or more of the state universities. St. Cloud's enrollment is way down, and MSUM is almost half of what it was when I was there.

Makes me wonder is DII football is going the way of DII hockey. Schools that want to have a high profile football seem to be moving to DI and those that just want to offer football with a low budget and eliminate scholarships go DIII. St. Thomas being a prime example.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I literally can't see the reason for UM-Crookston to exist. Within 100 miles, there are multiple 4-year colleges in better locations. I'm not even sure what niche it is supposed to fill. Morris has some unique things going for it and is a very highly regarded public liberal arts school.

But Crookston should always have been a D3 school.

I want to say a while back there was some sort of study or report that basically said the same thing about Crooston's existence ... but for a mountain of political reasons I'm not sure anyone wants to fight that fight to do something about it.

 

[tikited]

I'm reminded of a story about Radiohead selling an album from their own site directly online for whatever anyone wanted to pay.

Someone wrote an article about how other bands could do that:

Step 1: Be Radiohead.

Because it is just that simple.

I paid $1 for that album. Great album...great deal.

 

[disco]

I want to say a while back there was some sort of study or report that basically said the same thing about Crooston's existence ... but for a mountain of political reasons I'm not sure anyone wants to fight that fight to do something about it.

I think in North Dakota, the locations of the public universities are specified in the state constitution, thus the reason tiny schools like Mayville State remain open. But I don't think the same is true here.

 

[RodentRampage]

I literally can't see the reason for UM-Crookston to exist. Within 100 miles, there are multiple 4-year colleges in better locations. I'm not even sure what niche it is supposed to fill. Morris has some unique things going for it and is a very highly regarded public liberal arts school.

But Crookston should always have been a D3 school.

The Crookston and Saint Paul campuses have the state's ag programs. If Crookston closed, I'm not certain that the Saint Paul campus could take up the slack. Real estate is a lot more expensive in Saint Paul than in Crookston.

 

[Some guy]

I could see a new conference forming, with some of the bottom dwellers of the NSIC leaving and picking up some others. Minot State joined the conference in 2012, and hasn't won more than 3 games since 2010. Minnesota Morris is kind of an oddball in the UMAC, they might fit in better in a new conference with schools like Crookston and Minot State.

The UMAC and the NCIS aren’t the same division so that combo wouldn’t work

one is d3 and and one is d2

 

[MplsGopher]

I could see a new conference forming, with some of the bottom dwellers of the NSIC leaving and picking up some others. Minot State joined the conference in 2012, and hasn't won more than 3 games since 2010. Minnesota Morris is kind of an oddball in the UMAC, they might fit in better in a new conference with schools like Crookston and Minot State.

It would almost be like back in the day when you had the NCC and the N Sun!

 

[MplsGopher]

The Crookston and Saint Paul campuses have the state's ag programs. If Crookston closed, I'm not certain that the Saint Paul campus could take up the slack. Real estate is a lot more expensive in Saint Paul than in Crookston.

I don't think this is correct, but if you have links to it I would stand corrected.

As far as I know, St Paul is the HQ for all things related to ag research and the extension. https://extension.umn.edu/about-extension/contact-us

Crookston has a regional office, but so do 14 other cities. (as far as the extension goes)

 

[MplsGopher]

Morris is in the middle of nowhere but it is very well regarded academically, esp. for it's science programs.

Sure, like a liberal arts school. Because that is what it is. Except publicly subsized.

Doesn't make much sense to me. But I certainly don't run things at the U of MN, and I doubt anyone is in a hurry to cast of either campus to MNSCU or as an independent.

 

[GoForGold]

Sure, like a liberal arts school. Because that is what it is. Except publicly subsized.

Doesn't make much sense to me. But I certainly don't run things at the U of MN, and I doubt anyone is in a hurry to cast of either campus to MNSCU or as an independent.

Morris also has had, from the very beginning, a unique mission to serve the Native American community. It serves them well in a smaller school where they can have a strong presence and identity. I think that is something worth preserving as a small part of the University's mission. I believe any Native Americans can go there tuition-free, which is the least we can do for those people.

 

[disco]

Morris also has had, from the very beginning, a unique mission to serve the Native American community. It serves them well in a smaller school where they can have a strong presence and identity. I think that is something worth preserving as a small part of the University's mission. I believe any Native Americans can go there tuition-free, which is the least we can do for those people.

That is absolutely true. Natives still get free tuition at UMM. I know a couple people who graduated from there under that arrangement.

I have some friends from Morris. It's a nice enough little town, and the campus is really nice as well.
Crookston - not so much. All the delightful climate of Grand Forks only with nothing to do.

 

[MennoSota]

St John's gonna load up on talent.
Meanwhile more participation trophy soccer players get a crack at playing for St Cloud State.