Daniels Twins decommit

Donate To GopherHole
Section2 said:
It is very dangerous and tricky to argue that anyone involved in a purely voluntary arrangement is being taken advantage of. Quick question, would you want your son to be a D1 football player if you knew they would never make an NFL roster? I would without hesitation. In fact, I would spend a lot of money on training in the hopes they could be a D1 athlete, and the country is filled with people who feel the same way. I don't even care about the scholarship money. I know all the economics of college football and I wouldn't feel taken advantage of in any way.
Click to expand...

My son, and I'm guessing yours too, would be academically and mentally prepared to take advantage of his education as much as possible. And again, people love to twist this conversation from what it is. There isn't a question as to whether or not there is value in an athletic scholarship. The question is if the value of the scholarship alone is adequate when viewed next to the piles of money the universities, coaches and networks are making from the labor of those players who also aren't allowed to profit individually in any way. Name me 1 other situation where someone is not allowed to profit from their talent (excluding illegal activities). Some kids are prepared and understand the game and take advantage of the opportunities to set themselves up for the future (Christenson, Myron Rolle, etc). Many many others aren't and those kids are chewed up and spit out with nothing to show for it other than a few years of worthless classes under their belt.
 

oleboy41 said:
Because they'd have to fight the NFL. And find a way to generate money opposite it. Pretty simple reasoning. And I understand how payment works. Maybe you don't understand that this is a group being taken advantage of. The simple fact is that the scholarships are no longer adequate payment when schools are making 4 million dollars just because the players made a particular bowl game and coaches are getting 6 figure bonuses but the kids get nothing other than an extra game to play in and 4 more weeks of practice. Its like working in sales for $15/hr and when you hit your goal all your bosses get huge bonuses and you get a T-shirt even though you're the one that generated the revenue. But hey, maybe you'd be cool with that setup. Most people aren't.
Click to expand...

The reality is that NCAA football is highly subsidized. There are 25 FBS teams that make money without including "student fees." That figure does not contemplate donations. That revenue is separate. So this is not like your example. These are facts taken from audited figures and have been published in the USA today and elsewhere.

Basketball is the sport where they your argument is supported by numbers. However, it is the only sport. Moreover, without the NCAA tourney, this would not be true.
 

atsgopher said:
The reality is that NCAA football is highly subsidized. There are 25 FBS teams that make money without including "student fees." That figure does not contemplate donations. That revenue is separate. So this is not like your example. These are facts taken from audited figures and have been published in the USA today and elsewhere.

Basketball is the sport where they your argument is supported by numbers. However, it is the only sport. Moreover, without the NCAA tourney, this would not be true.
Click to expand...

Those studies are looking at entire athletic departments. Some of the departmental losses are only accounting losses. When Football team offers a scholarship, they move money to Central accounting to cover that scholarship. NCAA football doesn't often need to be subsidized
 


DLguy said:
You are assuming that coaches steer players towards easy degrees. I have never known that to be the case at the U. A player, like any college student completed their generals and then applies for a major of their choice. Some have to settle for what you would consider an easy major to keep them eligible, others get into highly competitive and sought after majors. Just like the rest of the student body. But that doesn't fit into your narrative that the program is only here to exploit the athlete and screw them over, so you ignore it all together.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be snarky but have you been paying any attention at all to anything said or written about this issue? There has been anecdote after anecdote written about players being steered towards easy majors or classes. North Carolina just got busted for doing that for 10+ years and nearly everyone involved in the sport acknowledges that these things happen. Seriously you come off as someone that hasn't engaged in this conversation at all because your arguing against things that have been being proved for the last 5-10 years
 


salzie said:
Those studies are looking at entire athletic departments. Some of the departmental losses are only accounting losses. When Football team offers a scholarship, they move money to Central accounting to cover that scholarship. NCAA football doesn't often need to be subsidized
Click to expand...

I am a CPA with extensive experience. No, I am not looking at athletic department studies. I am looking at NCAA football figures. I specialized for years in the field. NCAA football is subsidized by student fees at every school in FBS. You might think that is morally wrong, but it does occur.

What's more is donations for football are counted in revenue for football. So absent people generosity, the figures would get worse. This fits logically the football as an industry; both NFL and NCAA generate a ton of revenue. They also generate tons of expense.

"Accounting losses" is, and always has been a silly term. Accounting is the language we've all (society) agreed upon to describe economic events. Your example means they don't require cash; however, your conclusion necessitates that there is no resource expenditure. Yes, resources are consumed by people on scholarship.
 

oleboy41 said:
I'm not trying to be snarky but have you been paying any attention at all to anything said or written about this issue? There has been anecdote after anecdote written about players being steered towards easy majors or classes. North Carolina just got busted for doing that for 10+ years and nearly everyone involved in the sport acknowledges that these things happen. Seriously you come off as someone that hasn't engaged in this conversation at all because your arguing against things that have been being proved for the last 5-10 years
Click to expand...

So you prefer to say that because it has happened at a handful of schools, everyone does it the same?
 

So, have the twins said WHY they decommited?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 





Every published study ive seen is of athletic departments. Many athletic departments are subisidized however subsidies are often smaller than what they paid to central

So an "accounting" loss

Variable cost of students are small
 

And I understand how payment works. Maybe you don't understand that this is a group being taken advantage of. The simple fact is that the scholarships are no longer adequate payment when schools are making 4 million dollars just because the players made a particular bowl game and coaches are getting 6 figure bonuses but the kids get nothing other than an extra game to play in and 4 more weeks of practice.[/QUOTE]

No one can be taken advantage of if they make an active and conscious choice. And a choice they can walk away from at any moment, nonetheless. I would have given almost anything to play basketball at the college level. But I wasn't good enough, like most people. I would have been thrilled if a college wanted to take advantage of me by letting me compete at a high level in a game that I loved, all the while, providing me with a degree that I didn't have to pay student loans on for 10 years after graduation. It's all in how you perceive this world we live in.
 

Goph4phan said:
No one can be taken advantage of if they make an active and conscious choice.
Click to expand...

Really? So kids choosing between working in sweat shops vs starvation aren't being taken advantage of? People getting paid less to do the same job than others because they're a minority or a woman aren't being taken advantage of? Workers who have to choose between unemployment or underemployment aren't being taken advantage of? That's utter nonsense

And again, just because something is beneficial doesn't mean it's just. Thats like when people argue that NBA players are greedy and should be happy making 1 mil a year even though the owner makes 100. Nobody is arguing that a scholarship isn't better than not having one. The point is that they generate more than that and should receive more than that. The argument is also that if the 'payment' is education then more should be done to allow/ensure that they can fully take advantage of it, especially because a large percentage of these players come from backgrounds without great education or parental support and these colleges are fully aware of that
 



oleboy41 said:
Really? So kids choosing between working in sweat shops vs starvation aren't being taken advantage of? People getting paid less to do the same job than others because they're a minority or a woman aren't being taken advantage of?
Click to expand...

You will never win a debate when you use extremes to argue your position. We're not talking about sweat shops vs. starvation or wage discrepancies between race, ability or gender. We are talking about student athletes who want to continue to compete at the collegiate level because they love the game. To be compensated, they are given room, board, books, education, a chance to travel, and walk out with a degree that they owe nothing on.
Here is a question that you don't have to answer.
How much student loan debt did you leave school with AND what is your occupation? Just curious.
 

salzie said:
Every published study ive seen is of athletic departments. Many athletic departments are subisidized however subsidies are often smaller than what they paid to central

So an "accounting" loss

Variable cost of students are small
Click to expand...

When you talk variable cost and accounting loss you are melding two different concepts, so this is a bit over simplified.

I think you mean actual cash outflow to send a Football player to school is low, so the reported figure you see is not an actual loss. that would not be correct.

An accounting loss, is an actual loss, it just may have been distorted by human need for compartmentalization. Usually time.

Accountant's (absent frauds) don't go around dreaming up mysterious losses.
 


I'm confused. How much is the U paying the Daniels Twins?
 



oleboy41 said:
My son, and I'm guessing yours too, would be academically and mentally prepared to take advantage of his education as much as possible. And again, people love to twist this conversation from what it is. There isn't a question as to whether or not there is value in an athletic scholarship. The question is if the value of the scholarship alone is adequate when viewed next to the piles of money the universities, coaches and networks are making from the labor of those players who also aren't allowed to profit individually in any way. Name me 1 other situation where someone is not allowed to profit from their talent (excluding illegal activities). Some kids are prepared and understand the game and take advantage of the opportunities to set themselves up for the future (Christenson, Myron Rolle, etc). Many many others aren't and those kids are chewed up and spit out with nothing to show for it other than a few years of worthless classes under their belt.
Click to expand...

So you would choose for your son to play a d1 sport? Why? Based on what you're saying, you would be setting him up to be taken advantage of?

18 year old kids can profit from their talent, but not in the ncaa. You could argue that they should be allowed to enter the draft early, but do you think that would benefit the kinds of kids you're talking about?
I know you see kids from tough backgrounds and you want to help them. And certainly some kids at some schools could make some money. Would they be better off for it? If you gave jameis Winston or Jonny Manoel a couple hundred grand as 18 year olds would that be a good thing for them?

The kids who have no interest and take no advantage of the opportunity are not generally of the maturity level to handle money wisely.

We haven't even scratched the surface on the logistics of this. There is no profit being made by the schools. Coaches are paid very well yes. So cut their salaries in half and spread the money around the team? Pay only 4 and 5 star players? Pay only starters? Pay everyone equally? What about title 9?
 






If FB and BB players are "taken advantage of" then so are grad assistants that often only get a partial tuition waiver despite the fact that the research project they are working on is part of a multi-million dollar grant. Athletic department budgets are dwarfed by the academic and research operations. I'd even lump in the undergraduates whose tuition funds much of the operation even though they get huge classes taught by non-English speaking international TAs while the grad students get small classes taught by actual professors. They take this on despite racking up tens of thousands in debt and only half of them graduating on time. But yeah... the athletes are the ones getting screwed.
 

goldenboy said:
If FB and BB players are "taken advantage of" then so are grad assistants that often only get a partial tuition waiver despite the fact that the research project they are working on is part of a multi-million dollar grant. Athletic department budgets are dwarfed by the academic and research operations. I'd even lump in the undergraduates whose tuition funds much of the operation even though they get huge classes taught by non-English speaking international TAs while the grad students get small classes taught by actual professors. They take this on despite racking up tens of thousands in debt and only half of them graduating on time. But yeah... the athletes are the ones getting screwed.
Click to expand...


Please stay on topic and tell us your favorite Jeff Bridges movie.
 


Some outstanding choices GHers. Although I would go with the Big Chill there Gold Vision. I'm starting to enjoy hijacking pre-hijacked threads. :clap:
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom