Sportsfan24
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Agreed, and I would include not being able to go home for months at a time, even when home is less than 4 hours away by car.
Daniels Twins decommit
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Agreed, and I would include not being able to go home for months at a time, even when home is less than 4 hours away by car.
dpodoll68
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What is up with all of the whining? These guys know what the deal is going in, and if they don't want to live up to the commitment, don't accept the scholarship. Pretty simple. Something must be pretty great about it, given that guys are fighting tooth and nail over these spots every year, including plenty who don't even get scholarships. I wish I would've been good enough at sports to be burdened with a free education.
highwayman
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That's my kind of travel.
10 years ago. So you just described a normal day for any college kid with a part time job and goes to the gym each day. Only difference is they have a personal trainer and their "work" is something they love and pays them a whole hell of a lot more than any other student job. A football player is only allowed to complete 8 hours per week of S&C and film all year. And an extra 20 hours of practice and games during the week. So around 40 hours during the season and a whopping 8 during the entire spring semester. How will they ever survive? Oh, did I mention they actually get paid a whole hell of a lot more per hour than any other college student working a crappy job to pay for school?
wait!what?
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too many variables to lump them all into the same group. 95% of all college athletes are in it to get an education and it is a grind to stay on top of classwork and do everything else it takes to compete.
Same could be said for the student who has to pay for college and works part time to cover their expenses. How is that any less work?
Pompous Elitist
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I think there is little doubt the coaches get away with pushing the 20 hour rule in a lot of insidious ways. Warm ups, film study, working out etc off the clock. I also think counting the hours spent eating, traveling etc as work is a bit disingenuous. Tose longer hours are mainly during the season and the camps.
As I've said many times I would push for harsher penalties for those schools that overwork the athletes. Keep them students first. Michigan was pinched for this. Did the UNC allegations ever amount to anything?
It is also true many students hold jobs, or help out family, spend time working out, etc. it is tough all over I guess. Poor guys.
As I've said many times I would push for harsher penalties for those schools that overwork the athletes. Keep them students first. Michigan was pinched for this. Did the UNC allegations ever amount to anything?
It is also true many students hold jobs, or help out family, spend time working out, etc. it is tough all over I guess. Poor guys.
You keep using the term 'paid' when they aren't paid. And the work they do generates money for the university. And its not the same thing as a normal student who essentially has autonomy regarding classes, work schedule, etc. And ask any D1 player how far they'll get and how long they'll last with 8 hours of S&C and film each week, lol. Point remains: These students are supposedly paid via free education while typically not being able to take full advantage of that education by design. You can deny it if you want but you're just sticking your head in the sand
Thats an old school ideology that ignores the fact that there is now a ton of money involved that everyone but the players gets a piece of. The money has led to more games, more travel, different schedules and all sorts of things affecting the players while they get nothing financially. This is literally the only American institution that operates in this way. Its antiquated and patently unfair and the only reason it hasn't changed is because it takes advantage of a group of people that are young with few economic resources or centralized organization.
To say they can't take advantage of their education is laughable. Is that why Jon Cristianson is going to med school? Or all the other engineering, business, science majors in the program. You make of your college experience what you choose. Stop blaming others because some kids choose not to. And my roommate was typically home from S&C before I even got out of bed in the morning. They aren't there from 7-12 as you claim. And if you think getting room board and tuition valued at $50k+ isn't good for a 18-22 year old, you are living in a dream world. New flash, nobody gets paid what they bring in to a business. Or there would not be any business to work for
minibeaver
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I think Jon is probably not your average scholly football athlete, but still.
As I understand it most athletic departments are losing money-on the whole- anyway. So if you have a scholly from a school that reports a net loss for the year can they pull your scholly to save money? Not sure how a player can have it both ways, guaranteed scholly (pay) regardless of if the school (company) is making money or not.
short ornery norwegian
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As is usually the case, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Yes, playing D1 college sports is a major commitment of time and effort. But, those athletes are receiving tutoring, training tables, and medical care that is not available to other FT college students. D1 athletes also have opportunities to display their talents on national TV - essentially a free job audition for a possible lucrative career in pro sports. (beats the heck out of most placement departments.....)
Do colleges make money off of the athletes? Yes, they do. But the athletes (presumably) signed up willingly when they agreed to accept a scholarship worth up to $100,000 or more over 4 years.
In essence, the schools may be exploiting the players, but the players are also exploiting the school. (at a time when many students are coming out of college with debts of 6 figures or more).
Personally, I have no problem with the move to "full cost of education" scholarships, or a stipend for spending money/expenses. But I would not go beyond that.
Yes, playing D1 college sports is a major commitment of time and effort. But, those athletes are receiving tutoring, training tables, and medical care that is not available to other FT college students. D1 athletes also have opportunities to display their talents on national TV - essentially a free job audition for a possible lucrative career in pro sports. (beats the heck out of most placement departments.....)
Do colleges make money off of the athletes? Yes, they do. But the athletes (presumably) signed up willingly when they agreed to accept a scholarship worth up to $100,000 or more over 4 years.
In essence, the schools may be exploiting the players, but the players are also exploiting the school. (at a time when many students are coming out of college with debts of 6 figures or more).
Personally, I have no problem with the move to "full cost of education" scholarships, or a stipend for spending money/expenses. But I would not go beyond that.
beavergopher
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It's all diarrhea at this point.
Section2
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That's the beauty of the federal government funding everything, they get to have a say in everyone who gets federal funding, which is everyone.
dpodoll68
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It's in no way unique. Every for-profit business on earth operates this way. If a worker doesn't generate more revenue than they are paid, they will find themselves out of a job shortly. The poor scholarship athletes are compensated for their time in the form of a paid-for degree. If they don't put in the work to take advantage, that's their problem, not the school's. If they don't like the terms of the arrangement, they are free to leave at any time. Why don't they? Why doesn't anyone form a professional football league for 18-21 year old players? If they were being taken advantage of the way you insist, investors should be lined up around the block to get in on the action. Why aren't they?
You're trying to argue your position using an outlier. I could point to the fact that far more players don't graduate at all than have success like Christenson. So if players are being paid in education but a large percent don't even graduate, that says to any unbiased person that the system doesn't work. They're not being adequately compensated. You talk about scholarships as if schools are doing kids a favor instead of what they're really doing, making investments they profit from.
Not when your athletic responsibilities impede you from doing so. And schools actively recruit kids they are fully aware aren't equipped to handle the load academically with the intent to simply keep them eligible, not to educate them. Of course to you the schools have 0 culpability here for some reason.
So your roomate's experience is the same as all other athletes?
This is a schedule put out by Florida's HC describing at the very least a daily schedule with 4 hours dedicated to FB. Now that's assuming their meal times and study halls aren't mandatory and also assuming players don't put any extra time on their own or in extra meetings (or aren't strongly encouraged to). So that is at a minimum 20 hours and in all likelihood more. And again, this is what a coach bound by NCAA rules publicly promotes.
http://www.alligatorarmy.com/2015/6/9/8752711/florida-gators-football-players-daily-schedule-graphic
Does this read like only 4 hours of FB?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204002304576629182093236092
The argument has never been if scholarships are good or bad, it is that players are unfairly cut out of the profits they generate and that the narrative that education is adequate compensation falls apart when you actually look at the education the average player receives
So the idea that most people don't get adequately compensated for their work means its ok to not compensate players at all? Ok then
The counter argument is that to present CFB as a realistic stepping stone to NFL paychecks doesn't hold water as only a small percent will reach that level. Not only that but a large percentage of players will never graduate meaning the educational value is diminished. And yes players have access to tutoring but they're also often pushed towards majors/classes designed not to educate them but to keep them eligible. Is some of this on the players? Of course. But the universities that created the system actively and knowingly pursue (not just accept but pursue) high school kids they are fully aware aren't prepared to handle things academically and then don't make an effort to help them progress, they simply keep them eligible for football. People treat this like these are just college kids that can play football instead of what it really is which is football players colleges want to come play for them. So you have schools recruiting players they know aren't prepared to succeed academically with no intention of helping them in that area while claiming the 'education' provided is adequate payment for their services which they profit off of.
GopherHomer
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Players for Alabama might have an argument, but for every winy player (parent) for a player on a middle tier D1 team, there are 50 guys that could fill the position adequately. Universities have zero reason to compensate anybody. All the income generated by college football is based off the potential of the NFL. If amateur students deserve to be compensated, it should be by the NFL.
Because they'd have to fight the NFL. And find a way to generate money opposite it. Pretty simple reasoning. And I understand how payment works. Maybe you don't understand that this is a group being taken advantage of. The simple fact is that the scholarships are no longer adequate payment when schools are making 4 million dollars just because the players made a particular bowl game and coaches are getting 6 figure bonuses but the kids get nothing other than an extra game to play in and 4 more weeks of practice. Its like working in sales for $15/hr and when you hit your goal all your bosses get huge bonuses and you get a T-shirt even though you're the one that generated the revenue. But hey, maybe you'd be cool with that setup. Most people aren't.
How in the world is Christianson an outlier? Name a senior this year that won't graduate with a degree! These kids take full class loads during the year, and then take summer classes as well. Unless they are failing classes, they are on track to graduate. If they aren't, they are not eligible to play. You might want to take a look at the stats that gave this team such a high APR ranking. And no, you cannot count meals and tutoring into your math. That is not a football related activity. And last I checked, free meals and tutoring are a HUGE benefit that any college student would love to have. And yes, kids can do film session on their own if they want to get better. But it is not required as part of their scholarship. They can also play video games and watch Netflix if they want. Their decision. So please quit acting like athletes have it so bad. You are making yourself look ridiculous
You are assuming that coaches steer players towards easy degrees. I have never known that to be the case at the U. A player, like any college student completed their generals and then applies for a major of their choice. Some have to settle for what you would consider an easy major to keep them eligible, others get into highly competitive and sought after majors. Just like the rest of the student body. But that doesn't fit into your narrative that the program is only here to exploit the athlete and screw them over, so you ignore it all together.
Well stated.
In addition, think many people ignore the fact that Football players (and basketball), like many other professions, are prepared via a collegiate education in that sport. It's not like these guys don't improve from these experiences. I'd goes as far as to argue the value extracted from intercollegiate athletics is at least equivalent to the skill development obtained in one's degree program. It is certainly better than any minor.
Pompous Elitist
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Anyone looking for news on the Daniels twins ought to do as the did, leave and never come back. This is a hijack.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fWweqP_ZWbg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Section2
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It is very dangerous and tricky to argue that anyone involved in a purely voluntary arrangement is being taken advantage of. Quick question, would you want your son to be a D1 football player if you knew they would never make an NFL roster? I would without hesitation. In fact, I would spend a lot of money on training in the hopes they could be a D1 athlete, and the country is filled with people who feel the same way. I don't even care about the scholarship money. I know all the economics of college football and I wouldn't feel taken advantage of in any way.
lol. So required team activities don't count as 'football related'. Ok. And Christenson is an outlier because he is a top line student with a double major if I recall correctly. Thats why you noted him as he's been the subject of many articles praising him for his academic success. Pretty simple. And despite your nonsense rambling, the numbers say a good chunk of CFB players don't graduate
http://www.scout.com/college/stanford/story/1399111-the-bootleg-s-2014-graduation-rate-analysis
So if using facts makes me look foolish I'm A-ok with looking foolish in your eyes
Pompous Elitist
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The USFL, XFL went broke because nobody cares about players that aren't at college programs or not in the NFL. I would argue the vast majority of players vastly overvalue themselves. They are getting a tryout for the NFL. Failing that, many will have the lottery ticket of a paid for college degree. Ask anyone paying back 100k-150k at 7% how they feel. Others won't do well despite having opportunity. That's life. It isn't fair.