What would you do if Coach

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Rog

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First of all let me say that I believe that Leidner will be our Qb this year and next but that doesn't mean that he will be in there 100% of the time.

It is obvious to me that true freshman (#11) CROFT is being groomed for that position. Right now he probably is a better passer than Leidner but there is much more
to it than being a good passer. This he has to learn both in practice and game time.

So, what do you do?

Give him game time now (probably in mopping up duties) and thus having 2 years after Leidner graduates (overlap with Leidner for two yeas) or
red shirt now giving him next year to overlap with Leidner and then having 3 years to be our starting QB with more experience?

I go for the latter, the extra year will only make him better for the glory days coming.
 

unless Mitch gets injured for a significant amount of time (> 2 games), you redshirt him. Streveler can fill in for a few games if needed.
 

Get him time this year so he can start next year. Can't afford another year of sub-par QB play. Hope the Michigan HS QB is a hit from a recruiting standpoint and redshirt him.
 

I'll answer this with the caveat of hoping this is more of a Croft thread than another Leidner thread.

Given your scenario above, which I agree with (that Leidner will likely be QB1 for the next two seasons) then we absolutely should not burn the RS this year. Croft will be in line for mop-up duty next year, overlap eligibility wise for only one year. If an early season injury happens, its a different story, but my guess is they'd roll with Streveler/Perra combo anyway.

Go Gophers!!
 

Well, for us to be coach we need about a million more pieces of information to process the answer based on what we see in practice, what we know about the personalities of the individuals competing, what we know about how the team reacts to each guy, what we know about the plan for the future if this or that happens and those other million things. But here is what I believe: Jerry Kill is going to play whoever gives us the best chance to win right now. He's not going to worry about year 9. He's going to try and beat Colorado State with whoever gives us the best opportunity for that and maybe some realization that in games 3 and 4 he has some wiggle room. If Mitch plays 99% of the snaps next week...he's the best chance we got to beat Colorado State. If he plays all the snaps the first three quarters in games 3 and 4 then he's the best we got. So I think we will clearly know Jerry's intentions regarding your question after game 4.
 


Redshirt Croft, Leidner will be the QB all year unless he gets injured. He wasn't near as bad last night as some people want to make it seem and definitely wasn't our biggest problem last night. People need to accept that the ball won't always look pretty coming out of his hand and while not ideal it is alright. I actually thought Mitch looked better last night than a lot of games last year and think he will take a big step forward next weekend.
 

I'd spend all week on Gopherhole learning how to coach and manage rosters.
 

The answer is simple. If they thought Croft was clearly better than Leidner right now and was ready to play then he'd be playing.
 

A guy sitting behind me wouldn't shut the hell up about putting Perra in. I'm not a huge Leidner fan but if Perra gave them the best option he would be playing. Also the lady next to him was going off about how the staff needed to start playing the younger players to get ready for next year. Couldn't make that one up!
 



Kuato Lives! said:
A guy sitting behind me wouldn't shut the hell up about putting Perra in. I'm not a huge Leidner fan but if Perra gave them the best option he would be playing. Also the lady next to him was going off about how the staff needed to start playing the younger players to get ready for next year. Couldn't make that one up!
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Perra's girlfriend (who plays basketball for the women's team) was also very vocal on Twitter about putting him in. Seemed a little weird to me.
 

Rog said:
First of all let me say that I believe that Leidner will be our Qb this year and next but that doesn't mean that he will be in there 100% of the time.

It is obvious to me that true freshman (#11) CROFT is being groomed for that position. Right now he probably is a better passer than Leidner but there is much more
to it than being a good passer. This he has to learn both in practice and game time.

So, what do you do?

Give him game time now (probably in mopping up duties) and thus having 2 years after Leidner graduates (overlap with Leidner for two yeas) or
red shirt now giving him next year to overlap with Leidner and then having 3 years to be our starting QB with more experience?

I go for the latter, the extra year will only make him better for the glory days coming.
Click to expand...

Coaches sticking with Leidner reminds me of coaches sticking with Adam Weber - it took him awhile to break 60% for a season. What is really worrisome is that there seems to be no one between Croft and Leidner, who can give Leidner a run for his money. The passing game has been a problem for years.
 

scher215 said:
Perra's girlfriend (who plays basketball for the women's team) was also very vocal on Twitter about putting him in. Seemed a little weird to me.
Click to expand...


UU won't be able to resist this one.
 

There's no doubt that Leidner gives us the best chance to win now. That's not the question. The question is whether that would change in 2016 if Croft gets a chance to develop a little in mop-up time (and, perhaps, other scenarios) in 2015.

I'm not advocating for burning Croft's redshirt -- I've never seen him play. But if the coaches think he has the talent and moxie to seriously challenge Leidner for the starting spot in 2016, I'd get him experience this year.


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Whether or not a QB plays in D1 college right away depends on what they bring to the table in the beginning of their careers.

There are only a handful of the likes of Ben Roethlisberger or Brett Favre, or Aaron Rodgers who are just freaks of nature coming into college.

Yet, these guys weren't on the D1 radar right out of HS. Ben didn't play QB until Sr year in HS because the coaches son was the QB. Brett's father was the coach who recognize early on that his son has a strong arm. Yet, he threw very few passes in high school since they play wish bone because of the great RBs they had. Consequently, Southern Mississippi was the only college who offered him a scholarship. Aaron Rodgers attended CC first before he moved on to UC Berkeley. He wasn't offered by D1 schools coming out of HS.

My point is you'd have to be lucky by recognizing such individual talented QBs coming out of HS.

The rest of the QBs you'd have to build up and develop yourself. You'd have to be careful that you do not rush a QB player into action before he is fully ready, or you'll ruin him before he get a chance to mature and develop.

IMHO, whether or not they red shirt Croft depends on what he's shown to the coaches in practice. There's more to the game than just passing. Level of maturity both mentally and physically is up there. A strong accurate arm, game management skills, pre-snap read, and making game condition adjustments on the fly, etc... are all important.

The most important skill is leadership. Mitch Leidner is a leader.

Red shirting Croft will add one year of weight room training and maturity.

If Croft was much further along now, he'll be sharing duties with Leidner during the season. Time will tell. It is too early in the season.

I understand that the pressure to win now is enormous. If Croft plays now it means the coaches have no confidence in Streveler, Perra, or Rhoda to get get them the wins.
 

Play Perra or Croft. They couldn't be worse than Leidner. This is his 4th year in the system. He went to the Manning camp. He still can't pass. He is slow reacting. Do we want to waste two more years? My granddaughter can throw a better spiral.
 

If you let me coach the offense, first I would sit down with Mitch and ask him what throws does he really like. And we would ask that he show he can complete them in practice. I would insist he can complete at least 5 in a row, before moving to the next set. and so on. Looking at film of the defense we are facing. I would then insert the throws we want against that defense. Are there 5, 10 throws he can consistently make? I would then go over the play call chart. Runs out of two back, runs out of one back, inside zone, wrap around trap. etc. We look to have 60 snaps, 45 runs 15 passes. Those are the fifteen that have to be completed. Those are the ones he chose, and demonstrated he could complete.
 

husker70 said:
If you let me coach the offense, first I would sit down with Mitch and ask him what throws does he really like. And we would ask that he show he can complete them in practice. I would insist he can complete at least 5 in a row, before moving to the next set. and so on. Looking at film of the defense we are facing. I would then insert the throws we want against that defense. Are there 5, 10 throws he can consistently make? I would then go over the play call chart. Runs out of two back, runs out of one back, inside zone, wrap around trap. etc. We look to have 60 snaps, 45 runs 15 passes. Those are the fifteen that have to be completed. Those are the ones he chose, and demonstrated he could complete.
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I like the way you think. Unfortunately, each passing play is infinitely more complex than what throws he can complete in practice. In Leidner's bad games Kill has made a point to say that it's a team game, and all 11 are responsible for the result of each play. Mitch is very complicit, but plenty of blame lies elsewhere in our offensive struggles.
 

We need to stop with the play Croft now stuff; Coach Kill has said that 'he's good but he needs to grow into his body' that should be the end of the discussion, the coaches think his body's not ready. Redshirt him and let his body mature.
 

husker70 said:
If you let me coach the offense, first I would sit down with Mitch and ask him what throws does he really like. And we would ask that he show he can complete them in practice. I would insist he can complete at least 5 in a row, before moving to the next set. and so on. Looking at film of the defense we are facing. I would then insert the throws we want against that defense. Are there 5, 10 throws he can consistently make? I would then go over the play call chart. Runs out of two back, runs out of one back, inside zone, wrap around trap. etc. We look to have 60 snaps, 45 runs 15 passes. Those are the fifteen that have to be completed. Those are the ones he chose, and demonstrated he could complete.
Click to expand...

You are a real throwback (and I respect the hell out of you, don't take me wrong). If we're going to run it 45 out of 60, 75% of snaps, we might as well institute the triple option. I'm serious. Georgia Tech is a heck of a fun team to watch. Trying to be Wisconsin without their stallions up front is risky. Maybe we will trend that direction, maybe we'll trend towards Michigan State's more balanced attack.

I would prefer the latter, between 20-30 passes a game depending on opponent, assuming competent QB and receiver play. Then again, if we can pull off a Wisconsin attack so be it.
 

I would start going back to the Duel-QB option. If one day one is hot, play him more. Otherwise, try the other QB. It couldn't hurt to at least give him some reps in a game and see what he can do. Plus, you keep Mitch in there for all the "leadership" roles that he does.
 


Gopher fans always think whoever is on the bench is a better QB than the current one. If we put Perra or someone else in, people would call for Leidner again. I trust the coaches that watch the kids play football for a majority of the year. They know a heck of a lot more than me.

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One game in is way too early to play for next year. If Croft is good enough to help the team this year then play him. Don't burn a redshirt simply to play for the future. Our defense is good enough to win now. The best players should play. If Leidner is the best QB, and that is a depressing thought, then play him.

We saw Streveler last year against SJSU. He cannot throw. We always hear that Perra is the best looking passer in practice but something must be off. Croft is young and it's an awfully big role for an untested freshman.

What I would like to see is less stubbornness to make a switch when Leidner struggles. He stunk last night yet it wasn't as if we were out of reach all night against a big physical B1G team. Put Streveler in and punish TCU on the ground. It's not as if Leidner brings some other tangible benefit such as speed, clock management or extra care of the ball.

The other thing to keep in mind is that since guys are gamers and some are practice players. Maybe Leidner looks great in practice but is a wilting violet under the lights. Is a guy on the bench a spotlight guy? If might be a reach of an analogy but it took a Drew Bledsoe injury to discover Tom Brady was a better qb. Why not give it a shot when your guy is throwing bounce passes?

Finally, with this offense and defense I doubt we'll see much mop up opportunity for anyone.
 

We had a chance to watch Croft at a few practices. Physically, he looks like a High School Quarterback.
That will change, but for now he needs some time in the weight room.
 

amk8930 said:
I would start going back to the Duel-QB option. If one day one is hot, play him more. Otherwise, try the other QB. It couldn't hurt to at least give him some reps in a game and see what he can do. Plus, you keep Mitch in there for all the "leadership" roles that he does.
Click to expand...

Name two recent power 5 teams that were successful splitting the duties from day 1 of a year


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Johnny Olson said:
We had a chance to watch Croft at a few practices. Physically, he looks like a High School Quarterback.
That will change, but for now he needs some time in the weight room.
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We need to keep repeating this until it sinks in. Demery Croft IS NOT Physically Ready
 

Oregon Gopher said:
Name two recent power 5 teams that were successful splitting the duties from day 1 of a year


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I'd actually like to see more Streveler in the Wildcat or running a triple option package with Berkeley or Maye, and Beebe et al. That would blow my mind. Make it so Limegrover.

Anyway, there are precedents.

Blake Bell spelled Landry Jones at Oklahoma

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VjSDv47wOfk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Tim Teblow/ Chris Leak?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/r-jSnoxJ1zM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

amk8930 said:
I would start going back to the Duel-QB option. If one day one is hot, play him more. Otherwise, try the other QB. It couldn't hurt to at least give him some reps in a game and see what he can do. Plus, you keep Mitch in there for all the "leadership" roles that he does.
Click to expand...

I think some here would like to see Leidner duel Aaron Burr
 

Life is what gets in the way of your plans. The QB situation has not been ideal since Kill got here. But one thing I believe to be true. Constantly starting true or RS freshman won't pull us out of this problem. Losing Shortell, then Nelson hurt the program as it depleted the available talent and forced kids into roles they weren't ready for. Ideally, Mitch would have been the backup with a. Chance to start next year. This would have been nelson's second year as starter. It didn't workout. Leidner's worst game last year was against TCU. He didn't set the world on fire in game 1 this year, but he played better than last year against TCU.. We can speculate that if we had a better qb maybe we would have beat TCU. But the lack of protection of the qb (and the big 12 officials not flagging the TCU DE for ligning up in the neutral zone - repeatedly) would have impacted whoever was qb. Leidner is not going to put us on his back and win games, but he can and has directed the team to some big victories. I'm more concerned with the play of the o-line right now than Leidner.


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caliGopher said:
Life is what gets in the way of your plans. The QB situation has not been ideal since Kill got here. But one thing I believe to be true. Constantly starting true or RS freshman won't pull us out of this problem. Losing Shortell, then Nelson hurt the program as it depleted the available talent and forced kids into roles they weren't ready for. Ideally, Mitch would have been the backup with a. Chance to start next year. This would have been nelson's second year as starter. It didn't workout. Leidner's worst game last year was against TCU. He didn't set the world on fire in game 1 this year, but he played better than last year against TCU.. We can speculate that if we had a better qb maybe we would have beat TCU. But the lack of protection of the qb (and the big 12 officials not flagging the TCU DE for ligning up in the neutral zone - repeatedly) would have impacted whoever was qb. Leidner is not going to put us on his back and win games, but he can and has directed the team to some big victories. I'm more concerned with the play of the o-line right now than Leidner.


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caliGopher is spot on. It's hard to be accurate as a QB if you only have 3 seconds to release the ball. I do feel that Mitch has an opportunity to improve his mechanics. I know a lot of readers don't like hearing people talk about the importance of throwing a tight spiral but every coach I have played for and my colleagues in the coaching fraternity attach tremendous importance to it for two reasons. First, it is easier for the receivers to catch a spiral and secondly it improves your accuracy as a QB. I'm certain that Jerry Kill and Adam Webber both know this and this will be a point of emphasis moving forward for Mitch in the weeks ahead.

This team has a tremendous defense. If we can improve our pass protection and blocking on the offensive line and if Mitch is able to improve each week this could be an incredible year for MN Football.
 

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