Zach Johnson at Gophers Illustrated - Leidner Take

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I've been hoping we could entice a QB transfer from a school such as, say...Butte Community College.
 

I think the greatest "could have been" qb in modern history at the U is Adam Weber. Adam was recruited by Mason to run Mason's offense, roughly the same one
Cupito had been running. Everyone was excited by what they saw in his redshirt freshman season and couldn't wait to suit him up the next fall. I think he would
have EXCELLED in Mason's offense, and he would have had a stellar four year career. However, the powers that be decided otherwise on Mason and the rest is history, and not a good one.

QB has been a difficult position at the U during the Kill/Claeys ara. Full of stops and starts. At the very minimum, Leidner has given them an inkling of stability, and
after what was experienced early on I think that's valued heavily. That said, they decided to accept Mitch for the good and bad. Its mostly good....he's a threat to run
while being relatively decent at throwing, and is tough physically. They know what they're getting with him. Unfortunately, that means it comes with INT's on potential game-tying
drives in big games, too.

Rhoda is not the same threat to run, but in watching him in MD game, I had this impression: When Leidner takes the snap, as a fan, I get a small smidgen of apprehension as
to what might happen next. With Rhoda, I never felt that. I knew he couldn't make some of the plays Leidner can, but I felt he was less likely to bring about disaster. He
was a capable game manager in that game, and the others rose to occasion to protect him.

Again, just my thoughts, fwiw
 

GopherFanatic19 said:
The thing is ML has never been a complete QB. ML has regressed every year instead of getting better. Just watching Demry Croft, you can tell he has an arm that can bomb the football with a spiral. I dont know about you guys, but every time ML goes to throw the football, its a hold your breath moment.

Now, ML will be gone and we have Seth Green and Croft. Hopefully they can take us to the promised land. Tommy A. showed us a good QB can make the difference in the big games. ML is a QB that fails more than succeeds in those moments.
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Let's take this last game against Nb. I think Leidner passed the ball extremely well (even the first deep pass to Still would have been on the money had Still not slowed down for a second). He unfortunately locked on Wolitarsky. It's not that he is always inaccurate or he can't throw with touch. Often times when he has protection and a guy open he passes the ball well.
 

gophmeister said:
Is Mitch a first round draft pick? It doesn't look like it, but when he has more than one reliable receiver he has been successful. A healthy Lingen would have made a huge difference in my opinion.
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This. We run an offense that requires good TE play and haven't seen it. The Woz experiment hasn't panned out well despite his effort- which I give him credit for.


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metrolax said:
I think the greatest "could have been" qb in modern history at the U is Adam Weber. Adam was recruited by Mason to run Mason's offense, roughly the same one
Cupito had been running. Everyone was excited by what they saw in his redshirt freshman season and couldn't wait to suit him up the next fall. I think he would
have EXCELLED in Mason's offense, and he would have had a stellar four year career. However, the powers that be decided otherwise on Mason and the rest is history, and not a good one.

QB has been a difficult position at the U during the Kill/Claeys ara. Full of stops and starts. At the very minimum, Leidner has given them an inkling of stability, and
after what was experienced early on I think that's valued heavily. That said, they decided to accept Mitch for the good and bad. Its mostly good....he's a threat to run
while being relatively decent at throwing, and is tough physically. They know what they're getting with him. Unfortunately, that means it comes with INT's on potential game-tying
drives in big games, too.

Rhoda is not the same threat to run, but in watching him in MD game, I had this impression: When Leidner takes the snap, as a fan, I get a small smidgen of apprehension as
to what might happen next. With Rhoda, I never felt that. I knew he couldn't make some of the plays Leidner can, but I felt he was less likely to bring about disaster. He
was a capable game manager in that game, and the others rose to occasion to protect him.

Again, just my thoughts, fwiw
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I had a somewhat similar feeling. There is a sense that successful quarterbacks give off that says, "I'm your leader, follow me, we got this!" With most quarterbacks it comes and goes...and sometimes for sure even during games. And there isn't just one way to spread that confidence to your teammates. But it is there or it isn't. I haven't often gotten that feeling from Mitch this year.

Mitch has not had a good senior season. When Mitch first started out as a quarterback and the times he was successful...he played with abandon, he played with enthusiasm and he led the team. Then going into the season and Mitch is healthy...Jerry started planting his fears in the whole team about injuries. It was major point of emphasis from Jerry. Mitch can't get hurt. We aren't going to run him as much. He needs to run out of bounds etc etc. We gotta keep Mitch healthy. We need to be careful with Mitch etc. The result: a million injuries to the whole team and Mitch and he becomes a very skittish, timid quarterback who has never been the same.

Mitch still flashes here and there. He has totally lost his mind on the read option. He seems to have no idea when to do what...evidently making up his mind what he is going to do before the play begins...versus Nebraska he kept the ball into the waiting arms of three defenders....that's not "reading" the option.

Hopefully, these last two games he just says "Screw it!" and plays with reckless abandon. That's when Mitch is good. It is in Mitch to be a good quarterback...it's just not happening.

I also agree with Bob Loblaw's comments about Mitch.
 


Rodney smith was wide open on the interception to end the Nebraska game. Rodney picks up 10+ yards if Mitch is paying attention. I have said before and I will say it again, this team has flaws but with better Qb play I wouldn't be drunk every Saturday watching #7 play.
 

Philip Nelson leaving didn't help. He would of been much better to have stuck it out. His numbers this year are very good. Completion percentage, TD to int ratio and QBR.


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Some Day...Is Coming! said:
Philip Nelson leaving didn't help. He would of been much better to have stuck it out. His numbers this year are very good. Completion percentage, TD to int ratio and QBR.


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The offense he is currently in is much better for him.
 

Some Day...Is Coming! said:
Philip Nelson leaving didn't help. He would of been much better to have stuck it out. His numbers this year are very good. Completion percentage, TD to int ratio and QBR.


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he quit on the team. yep, the team may have gone to the Rose Bowl in 2014 with him but he quit and lost his own chance for a Rose Bowl. Bigger loss for him personally than it was for us fans.
 



Was thinking about this. Last year, playing on one foot, Leidner looked better in the second half of the season than he has for this entire season.

So, he's healthy, but not playing as well. What's different? New Offensive Coordinator and New QB Coach.

I know it's a short sample size, but I'm getting a bad feeling about Johnson as a B1G-level OC. All we heard was about this record-setting, wide-open offense he ran, where the QB was a dual threat. Where is that offense? Either they've dumbed it down because they think Mitch can't handle it, or someone (Claeys? Johnson) doesn't think it will work at the B1G level.

Assuming the same coaches are back next year, we'll see how it works with a different QB. if the Gophs come back next year and look better on O, we'll know (or have a strong indication) that Mitch was the problem. But, if the offense looks the same next year, that indicates (to me at least) that the problem is with the system and who's coaching it.
 

Just get a JuCo QB. Easy peasy.


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Go Gophers Rah said:
The problem with recruiting/having a great qb goes back far beyond Kill's tenure. Someone probably knows the stat, but have we had a qb actually drafted (not an undrafted free agent) since 1961?
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Drafted? Is that the measure of a good CFB QB? I believe their have been Heisman Trophy winning QBs that weren't drafted.


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FireDaveLee said:
I think this is a very fair take. To me, the frustrating thing is that you often times see signs like he was taking steps & progressing. Anybody who thinks he wasn't a good QB needs to watch the Nebraska game his sophomore year. He'd be down @ Wisconsin, but then pretty good against Missouri. And then last year, I think overall, he progressed, especially from the midpoint of the season on, with him really only playing poorly against Wisconsin the back half of the year. But this year hasn't been as good, in my eyes. I don't think he's been terrible, but the bottom line is in the 3 losses this year, he made extremely critical mistakes in two of them that a senior QB just should not be making (knowing the concussion against Iowa, I'm not going to throw that game in the same category).

He was not THE reason for the 3 losses, but I do think that when needed to step up, he just hasn't done it this year. Which is disappointing, because he seems to be a really likable guy and a guy that his teammates gravitate towards.

The plus side? He still has 3 more chances to do it, which I truly believe he can. He just needs to do it.
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Great points.

First impressions and last impressions are always the most vivid. When we needed Mitch to be clutch in the final drives of Penn State and Nebraska, he unfortunately failed. He wins one of those games, we probably have a different tune. But the two losses show an unfortunate pattern for the status of the season.
 

Tackle4loss said:
'Leidner is not a failure. But there is no way he should have been a 3+ year starter and the best QB on the roster for that long.' So, he waited til a guy is at the extreme tail end of his career to tell us that he saw it clearly.
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Who says he is the best QB on the roster I don't think he is. Just because he is starting doesn't make him the best QB on the roster. Kroft is a lot better.
 



gopherhoopsguy said:
Who says he is the best QB on the roster I don't think he is. Just because he is starting doesn't make him the best QB on the roster. Kroft is a lot better.
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I don't know if Croft is better right now - but I suspect that he is. However, TC is looking out for his job and he thinks ML gives him the best chance to win this year - so this is what we get. I like ML as a person - but I have been ready for him to graduate the last 2 seasons.
 

beavergopher said:
FIFY
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They score less points per game than the Gophers against weaker competition. They rack up a bunch of yards but turn it over a lot and don't score a ton of points. East Carolina is terrible this season, even with Nelson's good numbers.
 

csom_1991 said:
I don't know if Croft is better right now - but I suspect that he is. However, TC is looking out for his job and he thinks ML gives him the best chance to win this year - so this is what we get. I like ML as a person - but I have been ready for him to graduate the last 2 seasons.
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Why do you suspect that he is? Wishful thinking?

I hope you guys are right but I'm not sure there is any evidence of this.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Was thinking about this. Last year, playing on one foot, Leidner looked better in the second half of the season than he has for this entire season.

So, he's healthy, but not playing as well. What's different? New Offensive Coordinator and New QB Coach.

I know it's a short sample size, but I'm getting a bad feeling about Johnson as a B1G-level OC. All we heard was about this record-setting, wide-open offense he ran, where the QB was a dual threat. Where is that offense? Either they've dumbed it down because they think Mitch can't handle it, or someone (Claeys? Johnson) doesn't think it will work at the B1G level.

Assuming the same coaches are back next year, we'll see how it works with a different QB. if the Gophs come back next year and look better on O, we'll know (or have a strong indication) that Mitch was the problem. But, if the offense looks the same next year, that indicates (to me at least) that the problem is with the system and who's coaching it.
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Not sure it's fair to judge the OC on the results of a very green (or Green?) freshman or RS sophomore QB's performance. We're likely to see plenty of youthful mistakes that have little to do with the quality of JJs offensive schemes.


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GophersInIowa said:
Why do you suspect that he is? Wishful thinking?

I hope you guys are right but I'm not sure there is any evidence of this.
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Yeah not sure where they are getting the evidence for this. On Burns' podcast he hinted that really, neither of the two young guys will be ready to play next year (with the exception of maybe Williams, who we now don't know what position he's playing). He thought the staff needed to go grab a JuCo.
 

minibeaver said:
Yeah not sure where they are getting the evidence for this. On Burns' podcast he hinted that really, neither of the two young guys will be ready to play next year (with the exception of maybe Williams, who we now don't know what position he's playing). He thought the staff needed to go grab a JuCo.
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Ryan Burns of Gophers Illustrated? The same place site where Zach Johnson informs fans that the gophs have had the wrong QB for 3 years? I won't be placing much stock in their advice.
 

60's Guy said:
I had a somewhat similar feeling. There is a sense that successful quarterbacks give off that says, "I'm your leader, follow me, we got this!" With most quarterbacks it comes and goes...and sometimes for sure even during games. And there isn't just one way to spread that confidence to your teammates. But it is there or it isn't. I haven't often gotten that feeling from Mitch this year.

Mitch has not had a good senior season. When Mitch first started out as a quarterback and the times he was successful...he played with abandon, he played with enthusiasm and he led the team. Then going into the season and Mitch is healthy...Jerry started planting his fears in the whole team about injuries. It was major point of emphasis from Jerry. Mitch can't get hurt. We aren't going to run him as much. He needs to run out of bounds etc etc. We gotta keep Mitch healthy. We need to be careful with Mitch etc. The result: a million injuries to the whole team and Mitch and he becomes a very skittish, timid quarterback who has never been the same.

Mitch still flashes here and there. He has totally lost his mind on the read option. He seems to have no idea when to do what...evidently making up his mind what he is going to do before the play begins...versus Nebraska he kept the ball into the waiting arms of three defenders....that's not "reading" the option.

Hopefully, these last two games he just says "Screw it!" and plays with reckless abandon. That's when Mitch is good. It is in Mitch to be a good quarterback...it's just not happening.
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Very good points.
 

Tackle4loss said:
Ryan Burns of Gophers Illustrated? The same place site where Zach Johnson informs fans that the gophs have had the wrong QB for 3 years? I won't be placing much stock in their advice.
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They've been to every practice, which is more than me. I'm willing to listen to what they have to say.

For those that have been to the practices, who looks like they are ready to step up in the starter role next year?
 

Tackle4loss said:
Ryan Burns of Gophers Illustrated? The same place site where Zach Johnson informs fans that the gophs have had the wrong QB for 3 years? I won't be placing much stock in their advice.
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He didn't say that. He said that there is no way the coaches can justify having a quarterback like Leidner be team's best quarterback for three years.
 

Plinnius said:
He didn't say that. He said that there is no way the coaches can justify having a quarterback like Leidner be team's best quarterback for three years.
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Everyone these days seems to feel like other people who don't know them should justify things to them.... what is with that?
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Everyone these days seems to feel like other people who don't know them should justify things to them.... what is with that?
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Not being able to justify doesn't mean they should make an argument and prove it.
It means it is a failure.

If this is seriously the best quarterback play of the last 4 years on roster it is either a failure of development pr a failure of recruiting


The point isn't that Mitch isn't the best quarterback. The point is that him being the best quarterback for 4 straight years is a failure of the job of the coaches.







The point that is missed is that TC already basically admitted to this failure of offensive recruiting and development when he fired the offensive staff.
 

"There's only two things in athletics, results and hope. There's a lot more hope out there than results because results are too hard to get." -- Glen Mason

Great quote, but I think those who think Demry Croft is better right now or immediately next year are definitely in the hope category. His stat line last year was 7-of-17 passes for 34 yards. Small sample size, but yet it isn't anything to get amped about. Potential yes, but ML is the best we got this week, and next.
 

Scoops5 said:
"There's only two things in athletics, results and hope. There's a lot more hope out there than results because results are too hard to get." -- Glen Mason

Great quote, but I think those who think Demry Croft is better right now or immediately next year are definitely in the hope category. His stat line last year was 7-of-17 passes for 34 yards. <b>Small sample size, </b>but yet it isn't anything to get amped about. Potential yes, but ML is the best we got this week, and next.
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Some on here would think 17 attempts as a true freshman thrown to the Wolves is plenty big of a sample size. Seems to me from the rest of your post that you are leaning that way too.


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