Would "havoc" work in the B1G?

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borninthebarn

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Lots of talk/dreaming of bringing Shaka Smart into the barn. If he does take the reins, how well would "havoc" do in a high-major conference? Burke and Michigan showed that high-caliber guards can carve up his D, and there are a lot more Michigans than Akrons in the B1G.

So, assuming you can get equal or better talent at MN than you can at VCU, would Smart's style of play work v. good guards or Wisconsin-style slow games?

Bonus question: how well would our current talent fit this system? We have some long athletes but we also have some slower players that would probably struggle in that system (Oto, Mo).
 

I think it would work overall. Do you have to recognize that maybe it won't work specifically against Michigan and stop pressing? Yes. Might doing it against Wisconsin cause a rip in the space/time continuim and cause the Barn to collapse? Maybe. But most of the time, it would be fine, IMO.
 

borninthebarn said:
Lots of talk/dreaming of bringing Shaka Smart into the barn. If he does take the reins, how well would "havoc" do in a high-major conference? Burke and Michigan showed that high-caliber guards can carve up his D, and there are a lot more Michigans than Akrons in the B1G.

So, assuming you can get equal or better talent at MN than you can at VCU, would Smart's style of play work v. good guards or Wisconsin-style slow games?

Bonus question: how well would our current talent fit this system? We have some long athletes but we also have some slower players that would probably struggle in that system (Oto, Mo).
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Ask Michigan's big man who had career highs in points and rebounds in Michigan's 30 point drubbing of havoc.
 


There's really nothing revolutionary about his coaching style. Defensively it doesn't sound all that much different than the full court press that I remember Haskins running. It seems to focus more on the transition game on offense though.
 



afurry91 said:
Those were Big Ten recruits vs. A-10 recruits. Hard to compare.
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Most of them actually would have been CAA recruits. Not A-10. That said, Shaka actually was a pretty good recruiter there and produced some NBA talent.

However, Michigan was still a more talented team.
 

If anyone has actually seen Shaka's half court offense, you would not want him to come here. And if you don't like Tubby's line changes...you might hate Shaka's 12 man rotation.
 

Lets also not forget that "havoc" shredded 13th-ranked Purdue in the 2011 tournament, and took Indiana to the wire in the 2012 tournament.
 



GopherNation said:
If anyone has actually seen Shaka's half court offense, you would not want him to come here. And if you don't like Tubby's line changes...you might hate Shaka's 12 man rotation.
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I don't mind the length of the rotation, per se. I mind it that it results in late spring recruits seeing heavy minutes. If your 12 man rotation features Royce, Trev, Ralph, Rodney, Al, Devoe, Cobbs, Blake, Damien, etc. it is a different story.

I also see Shaka's teams play with complete confidence, toughness, and poise even if the half court. Something we haven't seen from a Tubby Smith team.
 

Hard to say how havoc would work in the B1G, but last year in the tournament it all but had Indiana out the door before they made a miraculous comeback.

A 12 man rotation isn't a problem...a 12 man rotation with our current bench players IS a problem.
 

I have my doubts. B1G is a league that you must be able to play a half court game or you don't succeed. We have seen this the last few years in our beloved program. That having been said, his willingness to be aggressive will attract a high caliber recruit that hopefully can be versatile enough to play a half court game as well.
 

Butler plays a style similar to the Big 10, namely Wisconsin. Havoc worked pretty well against them.
 



Holy Man said:
I have my doubts. B1G is a league that you must be able to play a half court game or you don't succeed. We have seen this the last few years in our beloved program. That having been said, his willingness to be aggressive will attract a high caliber recruit that hopefully can be versatile enough to play a half court game as well.
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+1. The combination of an aggressive mentality and playing in the national spotlight will bring some good recruits here. He's an up-and-coming coach and has attracted other Big Ten programs, and UCLA. Doubt that we know more than those teams about the efficacy of his coaching style.
 

mplarson7 said:
Hard to say how havoc would work in the B1G, but last year in the tournament it all but had Indiana out the door before they made a miraculous comeback.

A 12 man rotation isn't a problem...a 12 man rotation with our current bench players IS a problem.
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I wouldn't call down 5 with 2:24 to play a miraculous comeback. I actually think that's a good indicator of the issues you'd have. IU basically didn't have a point guard last year and still won that game.

I think there's a reason that you don't see big time programs press all the time and it's certainly not lack of talent. I think it doesn't work against guards on Top 25 teams. When VCU beat KU a couple of years ago it was because KU shot 2-21 from 3 and VCU shot 12-25, not because they turned KU over all that much. Even in the Purdue game that year, while VCU didn't light it up from 3, VCU did win because of offense. They scored 1.42 pts / possession, which is just ridiculous. Purdue only turned it over 7 times and scored 1.15 PPP, which isn't really that bad. In fact, VCU's offense in 2011 was ranked 32nd in offensive efficiency but their defense was only ranked 86th.

All of that being said, either Smart would realize that before moving to a major conference or would do so very shortly thereafter and he'd adjust. Good coaches can change their systems to match not only their talent but their competition.
 


How is "Havoc" different then "40 Minutes of Hell"? Serious question. That seemed to work for Coach Richardson all the way to the National Championship, right?

I do agree, though, you do have to have the right mix of players.
 

Arkansas and KY won titles with relentless pressure. IU loves to run, Louisville likes to pressure And UNC loves the secondary break. Havoc is more than just pressing, it's about trapping and creating its name. Plus he has an undersized team with mid major type recruits playing against the most talented teams in the country. I think he'll be fine
 

Regarding havoc...if people think that Tyus Jones would consider coming here with a Smart hire, I must ask, Why? If he is truly a 1 and done (or 2 and done, or more...) why would he come to a program like that? I'm not sure that he would develop much in that system to prepare him for the NBA. I think Travis could be a good fit in it, however, and have never seen Rashad play, so I can't comment on that. P.S. This isn't to say that a hire should be focused on the likelihood of landing Jones, Travis, or any other recruit...that should be the absolute last criteria.
 

WadeHokenson said:
Regarding havoc...if people think that Tyus Jones would consider coming here with a Smart hire, I must ask, Why? If he is truly a 1 and done (or 2 and done, or more...) why would he come to a program like that? I'm not sure that he would develop much in that system to prepare him for the NBA. I think Travis could be a good fit in it, however, and have never seen Rashad play, so I can't comment on that. P.S. This isn't to say that a hire should be focused on the likelihood of landing Jones, Travis, or any other recruit...that should be the absolute last criteria.
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I think Vaughn and Travis would flourish under Smart. Tyus is a little harder to read, but IMO, he'd flourish in any system. He'd love breaking though off of those turnovers.
 

GopherNation said:
If anyone has actually seen Shaka's half court offense, you would not want him to come here. And if you don't like Tubby's line changes...you might hate Shaka's 12 man rotation.
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I have a funny feeling that you've only seen VCU's game against Michigan. I like their half court sets, they are a lot like Florida's. The spread the court, shoot a lot of threes and don't clog the middle of the paint. They aren't anything like Tubby's. I don't think Tubby's sets were that bad, it was how listlessly (word?) the players ran the sets. They weren't zipping around and that's on Tubby.

As far as the line changes, again, apples to oranges. I don't think we would have minded Tubby's substitutions if they are a result of constant havoc, Tubby's substitutions did not seem needed. If we're pressing, we are going to have to make a lot of subs.
 

scher215 said:
I think Vaughn and Travis would flourish under Smart. Tyus is a little harder to read, but IMO, he'd flourish in any system. He'd love breaking though off of those turnovers.
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Yeah, I think Tyus would be fantastic. Tyus reminds me so much of Jason Kidd, a young Jason Kidd was so good in the open court. I actually all three of those guys would be absolutely fantastic.

Vaughn is a scorer, he'd excel with the open court and spread out system in the 1/2 court. Reid Travis would be the super athletic PF who would be able to be athletic enough to press, run the floor, etc.
 

justthefacts said:
I wouldn't call down 5 with 2:24 to play a miraculous comeback. I actually think that's a good indicator of the issues you'd have. IU basically didn't have a point guard last year and still won that game.

I think there's a reason that you don't see big time programs press all the time and it's certainly not lack of talent. I think it doesn't work against guards on Top 25 teams. When VCU beat KU a couple of years ago it was because KU shot 2-21 from 3 and VCU shot 12-25, not because they turned KU over all that much. Even in the Purdue game that year, while VCU didn't light it up from 3, VCU did win because of offense. They scored 1.42 pts / possession, which is just ridiculous. Purdue only turned it over 7 times and scored 1.15 PPP, which isn't really that bad. In fact, VCU's offense in 2011 was ranked 32nd in offensive efficiency but their defense was only ranked 86th.

All of that being said, either Smart would realize that before moving to a major conference or would do so very shortly thereafter and he'd adjust. Good coaches can change their systems to match not only their talent but their competition.
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+1
 

Michigan just happened to have a great game against VCU - maybe the best game they played all year. I don't understand the hate for the leading candidate to lead our university's program, someone who's led their team to a lot of glory in three short years. What he might be able to do with the type of recruits you can attract to the Big Ten is intriguing.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Michigan just happened to have a great game against VCU - maybe the best game they played all year. I don't understand the hate for the leading candidate to lead our university's program, someone who's led their team to a lot of glory in three short years. What he might be able to do with the type of recruits you can attract to the Big Ten is intriguing.
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We have no coach to bash at the moment and need to get started on doubting whomever the next one might be.
 


It doesn't matter what system you run, what matters is your ability to play the game you want to play, coach up the players you have and to recruit the men that are needed to run your system. I would love to see havoc, it's a lot like 40 minutes of hell
 

The system that Tyus has played in at Apple Valley runs all the time. Tyus appears to love that style and flurish in it. His ability to anticipate on defense and pass the ball in the open floor would be an excellent fit in my opinion.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Michigan just happened to have a great game against VCU - maybe the best game they played all year. I don't understand the hate for the leading candidate to lead our university's program, someone who's led their team to a lot of glory in three short years. What he might be able to do with the type of recruits you can attract to the Big Ten is intriguing.
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No hating, just questions. We did go this road before, under different circumstances, and our on floor program became the worst in my lifetime. And as said, we are from Minnesota. We love and hate you at the same time when you are one of us, and he is not one of us yet.
 

WadeHokenson said:
Regarding havoc...if people think that Tyus Jones would consider coming here with a Smart hire, I must ask, Why? If he is truly a 1 and done (or 2 and done, or more...) why would he come to a program like that? I'm not sure that he would develop much in that system to prepare him for the NBA. I think Travis could be a good fit in it, however, and have never seen Rashad play, so I can't comment on that. P.S. This isn't to say that a hire should be focused on the likelihood of landing Jones, Travis, or any other recruit...that should be the absolute last criteria.
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regarding Tyus- because the coach is a young up and comer who obviously has the ability to develop players (he took some rather unheralded guys all the way to the final four despite the fact that they made the tourney as one of the last 4 in because of losing earlier in the year). this shows he has some coaching chops. Plus he runs a wide open style which allows a pg of tyus's ability to really develop his passing skills and use his creativity to make plays for himself and his teammate. The NBA is becoming increasingly a create your own type of league and Smart's offense enables that in the fast break. Plus, and you can't underestimate this, it just looks fun and exciting.

I think all 3 of these guys would be outstanding fits with this style, especially Travis with his length and speed.
 

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