With non-conference season behind us, the Gophers are?…

With non-conference season behind us, the Gophers are?…

  • Better than you expected

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • About what you expected

    Votes: 13 13.7%

  • Worse than you expected

    Votes: 82 86.3%
  • Total voters
    95
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Strongazzoffer said:
Frank Mitchell: Has not been nearly what we needed him to be. At Canisus he liked like someone who would grad boards and run the floor. He has beaten up on some of garbage teams like Morgan State but really didn't give much against better opponents.
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I agree that he has been a disappointment but I did like what I saw from him in the last game. I don't think it was all the lowly competition. He looked like he was moving much better than he did previously. Perhaps his injuries lingered a little longer than we thought. Not that it will make much difference in the overall fortunes of this team but if he can move and play like he did last game, he might be able to be a solid contributor coming off the bench in the future. To me, Patterson has been the biggest disappointment so far.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Mike Mitchell Jr. as by-far our weakest starter could have been a great team this year.

Coach Johnson gave it a good try. I don't know what else a coach here could have done.
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Having some sort of offensive cohesion would be a starter. But we get your silly narrative that without a massive NIL budget it is hard to find 5 guys who can even dribble. Never mind it happens all over the nation in a variety of conferences.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Will be shocking if a move isn't made after the season.
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Yes, because not making a move would have to be the result of something even more shocking like the team having such a significant turnaround in conference play that their final record could justify retention.
 


USAF said:
Johnson is the same coach today as he was last season.
He no more "deserved" another year then as now.
He should have been gone 2 years ago and giving him last season, much less ANOTHER year this year, was and is an entirely predictable trip farther into the hole dug with his hire.

And I LIKED the hire. But it was quickly obvious he's not equipped for this job. In ANY way. Coaching, recruiting, hiring, fund raising, enthusiasm generating, program building. Anything.
He's awful.

Hell, attendance is so bad the program might be LOSING money, FFS.

And he was awful last year as well. He's been awful since day one. He's never NOT going to be awful.

Pretending that's not the case is idiotic, and part of the problem.
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I'm calling bullshit on you liking the hire. No one likes the hire I think most of us tried to find things we liked and hoped it would work out. They also weren't going to fire him after year two, if it's true that we were strong armed into hiring a black coach by the BoR and the Strib. (Which may explain why they never go hard at Ben and the team) They certainly weren't going to pull the plug after year two. As for year three no coach is getting fired after improving their conference record by seven wins. And by the time the roster have completely imploded it was May, not going to get a good coach that late in the cycle. It is what it is, they gave Ben four years and barring some sort miracle finish he will be seen as a failure and he let go and hopefully we do a proper search and hire Will Wade. Will Wade is the way!
 


USAF said:
Johnson is the same coach today as he was last season.
He no more "deserved" another year then as now.
He should have been gone 2 years ago and giving him last season, much less ANOTHER year this year, was and is an entirely predictable trip farther into the hole dug with his hire.

And I LIKED the hire. But it was quickly obvious he's not equipped for this job. In ANY way. Coaching, recruiting, hiring, fund raising, enthusiasm generating, program building. Anything.
He's awful.

Hell, attendance is so bad the program might be LOSING money, FFS.

And he was awful last year as well. He's been awful since day one. He's never NOT going to be awful.

Pretending that's not the case is idiotic, and part of the problem.
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Mnvcguy is certainly part of the problem at Mn.

The "let's give it time" crowd loved the hire and still can't stand the thought of moving on to a new coach. Mind boggling.
 

Last year might have been the worst thing that could have happened to the program. The 9-11 record was a mirage. The lower half of the league last year was as bad as it's been, and the Gophers really only got victories against those bottom-dwellers. It made it look a lot better than it really was. In a "normal' year - and this year is more normal - last year's team wins maybe 6.

It just delayed the inevitable rebuild by a year (and saved some buyout $, I suppose).

Similarly, the worst thing that could happen this year is qualifying 15th for the BTT. That might be enough to say they exceeded expectations.
 

Strongazzoffer said:
I'm calling bullshit on you liking the hire.
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Good lord you're a tool.

You think I'm MAKING UP fhat I liked the worst hire in Gooher Athletics history??

I'm PRETENDING I was spectacularly, epically wrong???

And with that, on "ignore" you go. Should have done so with your incredibly vulgar post on the football board.
 

Strongazzoffer said:
As for the OP, we are worse than I thought we would be. Generally as a rule of thump it's my opinion that you need nine guys you can play and seven that you can trust. The gophs have about 10 guys you can play but the problem guys 3-10 are bench role types. Mike Mitchell would be a nice fourth or fifth option on a good team. Garcia a dawg but he's not a guard so someone has to get him the ball.

Overall, I think Mike Mitchell stays healthy we're still not very good we can avoid being historically bad. I would say MM, Garcia and Fox they are what they are. Asuama is a better defender as a freshman than I thought he would be, thought he would bring a little more this year on offense, but he has a high IQ for the game and will be very good down the line.

Lu'Cye Patterson, I thought as a second team all AAC guy his pedigree was better then any transfer guard coming in outside of Peyton Willis, his stroke has just not been there this season and we really need led him to be a top contributor and he just isn't.

Femi: Honestly he's about what I thought he would be, good defender, a hot mess on offense. Thought his shooting percentages would be better.

Rigsby: I thought would be a solid fourth or to with starter/ six man, like he was at Oregon. I can see why they let him walk out the door. Outside of the Yale game where he did a really good job on John Poulakdidas (Former Pitino Recruit) his defense has not been there and his three points shooting has taken a nose dive

Frank Mitchell: Has not been nearly what we needed him to be. At Canisus he liked like someone who would grad boards and run the floor. He has beaten up on some of garbage teams like Morgan State but really didn't give much against better opponents.

Edmonds: He's actually been better especially on offense then I thought he would be.

Williams: Tough to say as he had mono and the road back from that can kick your ass almost hard as the sickness itself. Will see if he can carve out a role for himself, his defense will probably be brutal but if he can make shots this team is desperately in need of another guy who can spread the floor.

Betts: As someone who saw Betts tear up D1 MN with his Pluto AAU team I've been driving the Betts bandwagon. Unfortunately it just hasn't clicked for him. I would like to see him get some minutes that matter as I think he has been fine in the garbage time that he's played. Unfortunately for him maybe it just comes down to he's not a three year a four and we can't really afford have Dawson on the bench.

I'm not as down on this group as most with that said it don't think we have enough top end talent to make any real noise. This is probably at best a 5-6 win team in conference will that be enough to earn a 15 seed for weakling Wednesday. Probably not, probably need seven wins to or that and I just don't know where those wins will come from right now. Right now the only team we have beaten with any sort of pulse is Yale. Ben is a nice guy but he's clearly not it as a head man and I think this was a pretty inevitable outcome once he lost Hawk, Payne, Christie etc.
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Betts is a guy that Ben should have given 20 minutes a game to, in this garbage schedule, to see if the lights came on. But Ben was afraid to do it for fear he might lose to one of our weak sister opponents. He may not be any good but at least he has a future unlike most of his team mates.

You just are not going to get any mojo playing 3-5 minutes a game.
 



I don't think this team is as historically bad as some on here suggest (candidate for going winless or one win). Barring injuries to Garcia/Mitchell, they will still win a handful of games in conference. My fear is they win enough to disguise the fact this regime has been a failure and try to find reasons to run this back again. This was an unqualified candidate that hasn't out-punted expectations in any of the prior seasons. This year isn't any different in that regard. Even a Pitino level of accomplishment seems like a far stretch at this point.
 






bga1 said:
Betts is a guy that Ben should have given 20 minutes a game to, in this garbage schedule, to see if the lights came on. But Ben was afraid to do it for fear he might lose to one of our weak sister opponents. He may not be any good but at least he has a future unlike most of his team mates.

You just are not going to get any mojo playing 3-5 minutes a game.
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In fairness in Ben he did give him 17ish vs Morgan State, but overall I agree, hopeful he would carve out an 8-10 type of role. Maybe see some minutes when Garcia moves to the five spot
 

BarnBurner said:
There was no academic scandal. None. Once again, Mn leadership made something out of nothing.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you. But put aside whatever your belief is in regards to the legitimacy or non-legitimacy of the "scandal'" If ending the tenure of the most successful coach the basketball program has ever seen and starting the program down the trajectory it is today doesn't qualify as a low point, I'm not what the definition of low point is then.
 

golfing18now said:
I don't necessarily disagree with you. But put aside whatever your belief is in regards to the legitimacy or non-legitimacy of the "scandal'" If ending the tenure of the most successful coach the basketball program has ever seen and starting the program down the trajectory it is today doesn't qualify as a low point, I'm not what the definition of low point is then.
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Monson did better than Ben with his hands tied behind his back, a blindfold on, and kicking Joel P off the team.
The current brand isn't even basketball. Ben never should have been hired, it was obvious then and now.
Stands are empty, diehard fans don't even care anymore.
You tell me.....,.
 

Interesting plus/minus tallies so far: Garcia and Asuma are both +67, then Odukule at +57 and Mike Mitchell at +28 - on the bottom end is big Frank at +3 and Rigsby at +6. Mitchell would obviously be much higher but his # of possessions played is 1/3 of Garcia's and half of Asuma's.
 


BarnBurner said:
Monson did better than Ben with his hands tied behind his back, a blindfold on, and kicking Joel P off the team.
The current brand isn't even basketball. Ben never should have been hired, it was obvious then and now.
Stands are empty, diehard fans don't even care anymore.
You tell me.....,.
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You are definitely correct on the level of interest in this team. There has never been a time when fan apathy was close to the level it is now. Even the game day threads are whittling away on this site.

I do think turning around a program is easier now than it would have been post Clem. But it starts with having a competent coach. I won't believe that change is coming until I see it actually happen.
 


leib0039 said:
....in for one of the least fun conference seasons of all time. With a team that is full of players who just got here and the fans have no investment in and a coach who is 99.99999% getting fired.


It's one thing to be bad, it's another to be totally and completely irrelevant, which is where we are. I can't imagine there has EVER in the history of the program been less excitement for the team. Maybe we had a coach or a few freshman or something we could hang on to. This team has nothing. It's the absolute worst. Hopefully Coyle or whoever is making the calls sees you simply can't hire someone with Ben's coaching profile ever again
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Ben assembled what would have been a great team this year. Mike Mitchell Jr would have been by-far our weakest starter.

And now I have to listen to you people talk about COYLE "or whoever is making the calls" as if they are the SOLITON to the problem???

They ARE the problem.
 

MNVCGUY said:
First two years were brutal but last year was not. That team went 9-11 in
Coyle absolutely could have made a move when the players left but he chose not to. He could chose to make the move in season but he doesn't seem inclined to go that route either. Will be shocking if a move isn't made after the season.
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So you're saying Coyle should have fired himself? Or fired the administration?
 

USAF said:
Johnson is the same coach today as he was last season.
He no more "deserved" another year then as now.
He should have been gone 2 years ago and giving him last season, much less ANOTHER year this year, was and is an entirely predictable trip farther into the hole dug with his hire.

And I LIKED the hire. But it was quickly obvious he's not equipped for this job. In ANY way. Coaching, recruiting, hiring, fund raising, enthusiasm generating, program building. Anything.
He's awful.

Hell, attendance is so bad the program might be LOSING money, FFS.

And he was awful last year as well. He's been awful since day one. He's never NOT going to be awful.

Pretending that's not the case is idiotic, and part of the problem.
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"Pretending that's not the case is idiotic, and part of the problem."

It is totally idiotic to blame the coach. It's like nobody in here has a brain.

But...I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt. You love the Gophers...and you're purposely being totally delusional in order to have hope. Because facing the truth that Coyle & the administration are the problem is not fun.
 

formerlybis said:
Last year might have been the worst thing that could have happened to the program. The 9-11 record was a mirage. The lower half of the league last year was as bad as it's been, and the Gophers really only got victories against those bottom-dwellers. It made it look a lot better than it really was. In a "normal' year - and this year is more normal - last year's team wins maybe 6.

It just delayed the inevitable rebuild by a year (and saved some buyout $, I suppose).

Similarly, the worst thing that could happen this year is qualifying 15th for the BTT. That might be enough to say they exceeded expectations.
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LOL.

Despite the non-stop mud-slinging in here...I will be extra nice. And assume you are purposely being delusional. And that deep down you realize we had good improving young players last year...who left for money.
 




Poor Ben. If only we had more NIL $$ we'd have kept Hawkins and Payne.

Hawkins: 6.9 PPG. 5.4 APG. His replacement Lu'Cye Patterson 9.7 PPG, 3.9 APG.
Payne: 7.3 PPG, 4.7 RPG. His replacement Frank Mitchell 4.7 PPG, 3.8 RPG.

Obviously you'd rather have Hawkins and Payne. But let's stop acting like swapping out these two spots turns 1-19 into an NCAA tournament team. It doesn't.

 

howeda7 said:
Poor Ben. If only we had more NIL $$ we'd have kept Hawkins and Payne.

Hawkins: 6.9 PPG. 5.4 APG. His replacement Lu'Cye Patterson 9.7 PPG, 3.9 APG.
Payne: 7.3 PPG, 4.7 RPG. His replacement Frank Mitchell 4.7 PPG, 3.8 RPG.

Obviously you'd rather have Hawkins and Payne. But let's stop acting like swapping out these two spots turns 1-19 into an NCAA tournament team. It doesn't.

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Hawkins has been brutal this year for Tech. Christie being 1 and done hurt more than losing Payne and Hawkins. You throw them on this team, and were probably a little worse than what we were last season. Maybe a top 100 team. Maybe better than USC and Washington.
 


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