Which QB do the Vikes draft?

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I don't know anything about McCarthy other than a few minutes on YouTube (100% completion rate!) and watching most of the national championship game. My question is if Harbaugh thought McCarthy was a great QB wouldn't he have used him more? I've never heard of a coach not trying to maximize the skills of a great QB.
 


jamiche said:
I don't know anything about McCarthy other than a few minutes on YouTube (100% completion rate!) and watching most of the national championship game. My question is if Harbaugh thought McCarthy was a great QB wouldn't he have used him more? I've never heard of a coach not trying to maximize the skills of a great QB.
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Harbaugh is an old school guy (4 yards and a cloud of dust), had maybe the best OL in the country and two NFL RB's. I'd say he did maximize the skills of his team.
 

Winner: Vikings

There's an argument to be made that nobody played the opening round of the NFL draft better than the Minnesota Vikings. Whether you agree that J.J. McCarthy is worthy of a top-10 pick or not, the Vikings clearly did and managed to secure his services by only moving up one spot and giving up a fourth and fifth-round pick. That was significantly less capital to trade than expected, with McCarthy projected to go earlier in the draft.

McCarthy lands in an excellent environment under the watch of coach Kevin O'Connell with an exceptional trio of young pass-catchers in Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, and T.J. Hockenson. The 21-year-old national champion can easily redshirt for a season while Sam Darnold takes the bulk of the snaps for Minnesota. That strategy worked brilliantly for the Kansas City Chiefs with Patrick Mahomes and the Green Bay Packers usage of Jordan Love.

The Vikings weren't done following the McCarthy selection, as general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah made another move later in the round to nab the No. 17 pick from the Jacksonville Jaguars. Minnesota immediately took Alabama edge rusher Dallas Turner, who theScore listed second at his position in our predraft rankings.

www.thescore.com

Winners and losers from Round 1 of 2024 NFL Draft

theScore's football editors evaluate the biggest winners and losers after the first 32 picks of the 2024 NFL Draft.Winners: QuarterbacksRoger Goodell stopped short of pulling an Oprah Winfrey and shouting on stage, "You get a quarterback, and you get a quarterback." But it would have been...
www.thescore.com www.thescore.com
 


The people in charge in ATL are getting fired eventually for that move. Cousins has a no-trade clause, so they can't just move him to whomever offers the most. If Penix sits 2 years behind Kirk, he'd be 26 his first year playing. It's like they gifted us the tampering pick swap, as the Vikes would have taken JJ at 8 if they swapped.

So the Vikes got their QB and one of the best defenders in the draft (at an area of need). If that's not a rousing success, I don't know what is. The later round draft capital doesn't bother me at all as they got to keep their #1 next year. It all hinges on JJM. If he's good, this will be a success. If he isn't, it won't be a success, simple as that.
 



jamiche said:
I don't know anything about McCarthy other than a few minutes on YouTube (100% completion rate!) and watching most of the national championship game. My question is if Harbaugh thought McCarthy was a great QB wouldn't he have used him more? I've never heard of a coach not trying to maximize the skills of a great QB.
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Harbaugh is somewhat similar to PJ; generally speaking, he's pretty conservative. I've posted this before, but look at Andrew Luck's stats. Harbaugh coached him his first two years at Stanford. At the time, Luck was viewed as a generational-level talent at QB. And even with that, Harbaugh still was conservative and run-heavy. He had a much better Defense and RB at Michigan, so not surprising McCarthy's attempts were lower. Look at Harbaugh's last year coaching Luck (2010) and McCarthy's last year (incorrectly listed as SR below). Same 9.0 Y/A, AY/A is almost identical. Completion % is within 1.6%. I think it will bare out in LA as well. I'm guessing Herbert's attempts and yards will go down by at least 15%, but his efficiency will likely be better. Just the way Harbaugh rolls. But if you watch Michigan football games, you could see he can "make all the throws". His arm isn't as strong as Penix's; however, he can make really tough throws and put it where it needs to be. He can move around the pocket. I watched a decent number of Michigan games, specifically watching JJM a lot, and I always came away impressed.

Luck:
Capture33.JPG
McCarthy:
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A predictable sorta reach by a QB-hungry team. I just don’t see it…but will be willing to eat my shoe if he turns into a good starter. Controversial player assessments, yeah? Accuracy, arm. Played on a team that had a very talented offensive line but also allegedly heavily cheated/anticipated defensive calls and pressures during his tenure, muddying the waters. There is nothing wrong with keeping your powder dry and waiting on a better and opportunity, trade or draft.
 

forever a gopher said:
Harbaugh is somewhat similar to PJ; generally speaking, he's pretty conservative. I've posted this before, but look at Andrew Luck's stats. Harbaugh coached him his first two years at Stanford. At the time, Luck was viewed as a generational-level talent at QB. And even with that, Harbaugh still was conservative and run-heavy. He had a much better Defense and RB at Michigan, so not surprising McCarthy's attempts were lower. Look at Harbaugh's last year coaching Luck (2010) and McCarthy's last year (incorrectly listed as SR below). Same 9.0 Y/A, AY/A is almost identical. Completion % is within 1.6%. I think it will bare out in LA as well. I'm guessing Herbert's attempts and yards will go down by at least 15%, but his efficiency will likely be better. Just the way Harbaugh rolls. But if you watch Michigan football games, you could see he can "make all the throws". His arm isn't as strong as Penix's; however, he can make really tough throws and put it where it needs to be. He can move around the pocket. I watched a decent number of Michigan games, specifically watching JJM a lot, and I always came away impressed.

Luck:
View attachment 31205
McCarthy:
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Harbaugh is who Fleck wants to be. The difference is that Harbaugh at Michigan had a 2-TD favorite probably 95% of the time he stepped on the field, whereas P.J. has a slight favorite 50-60% of the time. (And this coming season it'll be 40% if we're lucky.)

As an ancillary, I also think this is why Harbaugh is consistently very good, but never great, in the NFL. He does what he does probably better than anyone in the world, and you can be extremely successful playing walrus ball at a blue blood college program. But in the NFL, the talent difference even between #1 and #32 is slim, and you can't shove it down the other team's throat and expect to win every time. My guess is that San Diego will make it to the AFC Championship Game 2-3 times in the next 5 years and lose there each time, because Harbaugh has already said he wants to make the OL the stars of the team, and he won't be willing to bend enough to take advantage of having a top 10 QB.
 
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Look I haven't been on board with McCarthy from the start, but he's here and I need to get over it. I'll keep an open mid, my only ask is they bring in competition year over year and don't gift him the job the way they (under a different regime) did for Christian Ponder.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
A predictable sorta reach by a QB-hungry team. I just don’t see it…but will be willing to eat my shoe if he turns into a good starter. Controversial player assessments, yeah? Accuracy, arm. Played on a team that had a very talented offensive line but also allegedly heavily cheated/anticipated defensive calls and pressures during his tenure, muddying the waters. There is nothing wrong with keeping your powder dry and waiting on a better and opportunity, trade or draft.
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I speculate The cheating could actually help his development; e.g. didn’t Ton Brady learn to process and read so well the same way.

Arm Takent Difference between Penix and McCarthy can be coached. I actually can do that much myself; any NFL coach will do this substantially better than me. This is especially true in the ages of 24 vs 21.

I don’t mean to argue no flaws, just trying to list pros, cons, and mitigating factors to cons as well was limitations on pros.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Harbaugh is who Fleck wants to be. The difference is that Harbaugh at Michigan had a 2-TD favorite probably 95% of the time he stepped on the field, whereas P.J. has a slight favorite 50-60% of the time. (And this coming season it'll be 40% if we're lucky.)

As an ancillary, I also think this is why Harbaugh is consistently very good, bit never great, in the NFL. He does what he does probably better than anyone in the world, and you can be extremely successful playing walrus ball at a blue blood college program. But in the NFL, the talent difference even between #1 and #32 is slim, and you can't shove it down the other team's throat and expect to win every time. My guess is that San Diego will make it to the AFC Championship Game 2-3 times in the next 5 years and lose there each time, because Harbaugh has already said he wants to make the OL the stars of the team, and he won't be willing to bend enough to take advantage of having a top 10 QB.
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Sibling Rivalry will make you very flexible.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Look I haven't been on board with McCarthy from the start, but he's here and I need to get over it. I'll keep an open mid, my only ask is they bring in competition year over year and don't gift him the job the way they (under a different regime) did for Christian Ponder.
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That's not how it works in the NFL if you're a first round QB. Either you're "the guy" or you're not. They used a fair amount of draft capital to get him. They will give him every opportunity to be successful, as generally speaking, Kwesi and KOC's jobs are riding on it. One of two things will happen - he's a credible QB and he'll get a $40MM+/year contract from the Vikes after his rookie deal. Or he's a bust or journeyman type QB, and get a chance elsewhere to try and be successful.
 


Gophers1992 said:
Look I haven't been on board with McCarthy from the start, but he's here and I need to get over it. I'll keep an open mid, my only ask is they bring in competition year over year and don't gift him the job the way they (under a different regime) did for Christian Ponder.
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I'm of the opinion that if there is any question mark at QB in any way, teams should draft a QB most years. Not in the 1st or even 2nd round every time but QB is too important to just put all your eggs in one basket.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'm of the opinion that if there is any question mark at QB in any way, teams should draft a QB most years. Not in the 1st or even 2nd round every time but QB is too important to just put all your eggs in one basket.
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yep qb on a rookie deal is the easiest way to skyrocket your team to contention if they're good. which is all the reason why the falcons look like complete idiots because even if penix is good, he's sitting behind kirk's massive contract for multiple years and you lose out on his cheap years.

that's part of what worries me with mccarthy in that i don't think he's ready yet (watched every michigan game the last couple years as the significant other is a michigan fan) and i don't think the vikes plan on him playing this year. he still makes too many high danger throws and was playing with + athletes/advantage all the time based on scheme/system (ie his WRs and TEs are all in 1v1 because you get murdered by michigan's run). he does, of the QBs taken, get the most QB friendly system and he's shown he can be pretty good in structure, but I worry about his getting through progressions and only slightly above average arm strength with how many down field throws and across the middle throws on timing KOC likes to run. we shall see, but yeah he's going to get a RS year to learn but by year 2 if he's still not there the fan base is going to get real restless real fast.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'm of the opinion that if there is any question mark at QB in any way, teams should draft a QB most years. Not in the 1st or even 2nd round every time but QB is too important to just put all your eggs in one basket.
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Yeah, I wouldn't be upset at all if I was a Falcons fan. The time to draft a QB is when one you like is available.
 


Breakin' The Plane said:
Yeah, I wouldn't be upset at all if I was a Falcons fan. The time to draft a QB is when one you like is available.
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I'd be a little annoyed there. They have a lot of good players on rookie contracts on offense. Now is the time to try to win. Drafting a guy at #8 that is 24 years old and is probably a guy that could play right away, just to have him sit for at least a few years seems like a waste. In the end it might work out well but the way the NFL is set up most teams have windows here and there to win big. Theirs is in the next few years.

They need help on defense, would have been a good spot for them to get a really good player that could help right now. My very amateur opinion is they should have taken a shot at a guy like Rattler or Pratt in the later rounds. Will be interesting to see how it all works out.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'd be a little annoyed there. They have a lot of good players on rookie contracts on offense. Now is the time to try to win. Drafting a guy at #8 that is 24 years old and is probably a guy that could play right away, just to have him sit for at least a few years seems like a waste. In the end it might work out well but the way the NFL is set up most teams have windows here and there to win big. Theirs is in the next few years.

They need help on defense, would have been a good spot for them to get a really good player that could help right now. My very amateur opinion is they should have taken a shot at a guy like Rattler or Pratt in the later rounds. Will be interesting to see how it all works out.
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They should’ve picked Dallas Turner.
 


GophersInIowa said:
Or trade down.
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I’m trying to mentally set up the narrative that Atlanta is our 1989 Vikings….. we got the Cowboys Dynasty coming…. Taking Kurt gave us our Aikman. The tampering will get us a pick swap (please NFL), and Not picking Turner, allows him to slide to set up the dynastic defense that is coming…..

Don’t ruin my dreams here….😉
 

GophersInIowa said:
I'd be a little annoyed there. They have a lot of good players on rookie contracts on offense. Now is the time to try to win. Drafting a guy at #8 that is 24 years old and is probably a guy that could play right away, just to have him sit for at least a few years seems like a waste. In the end it might work out well but the way the NFL is set up most teams have windows here and there to win big. Theirs is in the next few years.

They need help on defense, would have been a good spot for them to get a really good player that could help right now. My very amateur opinion is they should have taken a shot at a guy like Rattler or Pratt in the later rounds. Will be interesting to see how it all works out.
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They tried that when they drafted Desmond Ridder in the third round. Then they gave up on him almost immediately and traded him. The whole situation is perplexing. From the outside you assume there is some grand plan that is logical. It's entirely possible they just fell in love with a certain guy and "had to have him", logic be damned.

In consecutive years, they had the #4 overall, #8 overall, #8 overall, and #8 overall picks. And they take a TE, WR, RB, an already old QB who presumably sits for two years.

Then, specifically at the QB position, they draft Ridder in '22. He sits most of the season behind Mariota. Ridder starts numerous games in '23, is benched, then once again the starter. Then, after only a handful of starts, they abandon Ridder, trade him away, sign Cousins to a 2+ year guaranteed deal worth a bunch of money, and before he even starts a game draft his successor, who will start at the earliest 2 years from now. At least from my perspective, the group running the show are complete morons and a monkey could probably do better.
 
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Breakin' The Plane said:
Yeah, I wouldn't be upset at all if I was a Falcons fan. The time to draft a QB is when one you like is available.
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I can't argue with this but grabbing Odunze to pair with London, Bijan and Pitts would've really bolstered their chances the next two (2) years.

Cousins never sees the 3rd year of his contract as the QB in ATL and the Falcons will have a 26 year old guy ready to carry the team for the next 10-12 years.

Gutsy move by the GM and worthy of debate. Good post, BTP.
 

Slim Tubby said:
I can't argue with this but grabbing Odunze to pair with London, Bijan and Pitts would've really bolstered their chances the next two (2) years.

Cousins never sees the 3rd year of his contract as the QB in ATL and the Falcons will have a 26 year old guy ready to carry the team for the next 10-12 years.

Gutsy move by the GM and worthy of debate. Good post, BTP.
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Cousins never signs with Atlanta if he knew Penix was going to be picked.

Atlanta helped us twice. They took Cousins off our hands, and didn't pick McCarthy.
 

I'm sticking by my concerns with JJM prior to the Draft, especially throwing outside the hashes.

With that said, if you told me before the Draft that we would end up with Turner at 11 and JJM at 23 without giving up our 2025 FRP, I'd be ecstatic.
 

kg21 said:
Cousins never signs with Atlanta if he knew Penix was going to be picked.

Atlanta helped us twice. They took Cousins off our hands, and didn't pick McCarthy.
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And maybe they send us a draft pick next year, too. 🙂
 

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