Where recruits come from


Gopherphile

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GopherGod

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I saw this on Deadspin and thought it was interesting. Provides a breakdown of where recruits are coming from and gives a per capita view.

http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2013/9/11/4718442/college-football-state-texas-california-florida

I think it just highlights the poor overall level of high school football in the state. Per capita, Minnesota high schools and towns just aren't developing much Division 1 talent, even for a state with a decent overall population. The youth programs here just don't seem to be nearly as big here as in many other places.
 

upnorthkid

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would be interesting to see this on an NCAA D1 athlete per capita rating to see if our talent is even but we're shuttling off to other sports
 

GopherVictory

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I think it just highlights the poor overall level of high school football in the state. Per capita, Minnesota high schools and towns just aren't developing much Division 1 talent, even for a state with a decent overall population. The youth programs here just don't seem to be nearly as big here as in many other places.
Just like all of the complaints about Maturi worrying too much about the Directors Cup standings, it is all about focus. We don't focus on football up here. You can't play football outdoors all year round and many (most?) kids play multiple sports instead of specializing. Which I don't think is a bad thing...unless the only thing in life you care about is college football. :)
 


Gopherprof

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There's also the elephant in the room, which is that Minnesota has a comparatively low black population. It's not a huge secret why the Deep South produces so much talent and New England doesn't.

The only real exception to this is New York, because NYC youths generally focus on basketball, and the states that produce a large number of Pacific Islanders, who also disproportionately play and excel at football.
 

AO54

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There's also the elephant in the room, which is that Minnesota has a comparatively low black population. It's not a huge secret why the Deep South produces so much talent and New England doesn't.

The only real exception to this is New York, because NYC youths generally focus on basketball, and the states that produce a large number of Pacific Islanders, who also disproportionately play and excel at football.
They focus on basketball more here too. The exception is the South. It's got nothing to do with the color of their skin. Weather and culture are the factors.
 

Gopherprof

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They focus on basketball more here too. The exception is the South. It's got nothing to do with the color of their skin. Weather and culture are the factors.
Oh please. It has nothing to do with race? Gimme a break....

Common sense would tell you that with blacks making up 12.6% of the U.S. population but 68% of the NFL, there might be a wee bit of a correlation.

Or you could just compare the list above with this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population
 

dpodoll68

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It's got nothing to do with the color of their skin. Weather and culture are the factors.

So you see a lot of white RB, WR, CB, and S on the teams in the south, right?
 



AO54

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Oh please. It has nothing to do with race? Gimme a break....

Common sense would tell you that with blacks making up 12.6% of the U.S. population but 68% of the NFL, there might be a wee bit of a correlation.

Or you could just compare the list above with this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_African-American_population
read it again. Culture, not race. The kids regardless of color in the southern culture are more likely to be football fanatics. Just because you were born a certain color does not pre-dispose you to football vs soccer or volleyball. That is introduced to them via their culture not their race.
 

Gopherprof

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read it again. Culture, not race. The kids regardless of color in the southern culture are more likely to be football fanatics. Just because you were born a certain color does not pre-dispose you to football vs soccer or volleyball. That is introduced to them via their culture not their race.
I don't need to read it again. You are wrong. You are very, very wrong.

It doesn't pre-dispose you, but it certainly makes you far more likely to excel at it. Or, as dpoll said, if that was the case why aren't there more white kids from the South excelling at positions of speed? They are born into the same culture that is obsessed with football, but if you look at any SEC roster it's dominated by black kids because the black kids, on average, are much better at football, especially at the speed positions.

I realize this is sensitive area, but you have to be completely out of your mind to not see that race plays a good deal into this. Not always, as there are exceptions to every rule, but very often.
 

50PoundHead

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Good information. Thanks for posting.

PS--I agree with GopherProf.
 

AO54

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I don't need to read it again. You are wrong. You are very, very wrong.

It doesn't pre-dispose you, but it certainly makes you far more likely to excel at it. Or, as dpoll said, if that was the case why aren't there more white kids from the South excelling at positions of speed? They are born into the same culture that is obsessed with football, but if you look at any SEC roster it's dominated by black kids because the black kids, on average, are much better at football, especially at the speed positions.

I realize this is sensitive area, but you have to be completely out of your mind to not see that race plays a good deal into this. Not always, as there are exceptions to every rule, but very often.
Race plays no part. This is the very definition of racism.

You are not more than likely to excel at Football thanks to your color. You're more likely because of your parents and the athletic genes they passed to you and the way they raised you after you were born, not the skin color gene. Check your list again. You seem to understand how culture can affect New York kids, but then you forget that lesson for every other state? Look at your link of black populations again and compare it to the college football list. Arizona, Washington and Utah are more white than Minnesota yet have more football players. Switching cultures with the South would have a more profound impact on football players than switching races.
 



FreakyDeke

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AO54 said:
Race plays no part. This is the very definition of racism.

You are not more than likely to excel at Football thanks to your color. You're more likely because of your parents and the athletic genes they passed to you and the way they raised you after you were born, not the skin color gene. Check your list again. You seem to understand how culture can affect New York kids, but then you forget that lesson for every other state? Look at your link of black populations again and compare it to the college football list. Arizona, Washington and Utah are more white than Minnesota yet have more football players. Switching cultures with the South would have a more profound impact on football players than switching races.

That's not the definition of racism. Saying that statistically you will not be an NFL cornerback if you are white is not racism. Saying we will not give you the opportunity because you're white would be racism.
 

AO54

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That's not the definition of racism. Saying that statistically you will not be an NFL cornerback if you are white is not racism. Saying we will not give you the opportunity because you're white would be racism.
RACISM: views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior, or superior.
 

Gopherprof

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Race plays no part. This is the very definition of racism.
*Shakes head*

Just stop it. Usually I enjoy the diversion of an argument, but I've been down this road with you before and you are painfully out of your element. You're exhausting to discuss anything with because you constantly move the goal posts every time a specific point is proven wrong.

You seem to understand how culture can affect New York kids, but then you forget that lesson for every other state? Look at your link of black populations again and compare it to the college football list. Arizona, Washington and Utah are more white than Minnesota yet have more football players.

This is very much on the margins. I even specifically said that race wasn't an absolute, but it is by far the best predictor.

Switching cultures with the South would have a more profound impact on football players than switching races.
It totally wouldn't, and only you seem to believe this, but ok. I learned this the hard way when my football-obsessed small white town from Ohio got pummeled in the playoffs every year by the inner city schools of Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati, where the vast majority of the FBS recruits come from.
 

Gopherprof

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RACISM: views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior, or superior.
Haha....you went to wikipedia.....
 

AO54

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Check your list again. You seem to understand how culture can affect New York kids, but then you forget that lesson for every other state? Look at your link of black populations again and compare it to the college football list. Arizona, Washington and Utah are more white than Minnesota yet have more football players.
This is very much on the margins. I even specifically said that race wasn't an absolute, but it is by far the best predictor.


It totally wouldn't, and only you seem to believe this, but ok. I learned this the hard way when my football-obsessed small white town from Ohio got pummeled in the playoffs every year by the inner city schools of Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati, where the vast majority of the FBS recruits come from.
Here's a life lesson. Don't use race as a predictor. You might be right some of the time or even most of the time, but when you're wrong the consequences outweigh the rewards of your previous predictions.

The only reason you could come up with for the reason you were getting beat in high school playoffs was the race of your opponent, and you're not racist? What?
 


upnorthkid

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look. you guys are both obviously right. culture plays a big role in that it pushes kids to play and drive themselves to achieve success in football. african americans are also pre-disposed to have better football (and overall sports requiring burst, jumping, speed, etc.) due to the evolutionary process we've undergone for a long long time. they have more of the proper muscle fibers that endow them with that talent. that is not to say that white kids can't have the same traits (hence why sons and daughters have a higher chance of also being successful athletes, but not always). no one here is being racist (i assume), but is just pointing out the genetic predisposition they have. it has nothing to do with the color of their skin, but the genetics of their muscles and other internal components.
 

Gopherprof

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Here's a life lesson. Don't use race as a predictor. You might be right some of the time or even most of the time, but when you're wrong the consequences outweigh the rewards of your previous predictions.
Translation: I'm right.

The only reason you could come up with for the reason you were getting beat in high school playoffs was the race of your opponent, and you're not racist? What?
Eh....perhaps personal anecdotes don't help the argument considering this is a much more macro-level discussion. I'll grant that. The point remains, however, that even at the local level where football culture is consistent, black players typically outperform white players at positions of speed. This holds up for other speed-based sports as well.

As for wikipedia, there's a difference between using it for facts and statistics vs. the definition or meaning of things. One is far more interpretive than the other.
 

Gopherprof

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look. you guys are both obviously right. culture plays a big role in that it pushes kids to play and drive themselves to achieve success in football. african americans are also pre-disposed to have better football (and overall sports requiring burst, jumping, speed, etc.) due to the evolutionary process we've undergone for a long long time. they have more of the proper muscle fibers that endow them with that talent. that is not to say that white kids can't have the same traits (hence why sons and daughters have a higher chance of also being successful athletes, but not always). no one here is being racist (i assume), but is just pointing out the genetic predisposition they have. it has nothing to do with the color of their skin, but the genetics of their muscles and other internal components.
I agree with all of this. The thing is, the argument isn't over whether culture plays a part. I agree that culture plays an important, though clearly lesser, role. He maintains that race plays NO part, which is absurd.

As to your last point about skin pigmentation, when the skin pigmentation is the most obvious (and in this case at a marco-level, only) marker of said genetics of muscles and internal components, it's relevant.
 


Gopherprof

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I was right with ya until you slammed wikipedia, prof.
Haha....ok fine. I actually like wikipedia as a quick reference for facts and figures. And to read about how my microwave works because my understanding of physics stalled in high school.
 


TLHGO4

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Translation: I'm right.


Eh....perhaps personal anecdotes don't help the argument considering this is a much more macro-level discussion. I'll grant that. The point remains, however, that even at the local level where football culture is consistent, black players typically outperform white players at positions of speed. This holds up for other speed-based sports as well.

Last time I checked it doesn't seem to hold for ice hockey.
 

Killjoy

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Last time I checked it doesn't seem to hold for ice hockey.

Maybe it is because some "cultures" don't like cold weather. That should give this discussion some more fuel. By the way, have any of you noticed that there are no fast black ski racers? I also don't think there are many black ice fishermen, but that may be due to too much alcohol and/or lack of brains with white fishermen. Anyway it is a good sport for a slow white guy. Carry on.
 

savagerube

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read it again. Culture, not race. The kids regardless of color in the southern culture are more likely to be football fanatics. Just because you were born a certain color does not pre-dispose you to football vs soccer or volleyball. That is introduced to them via their culture not their race.

Very true. However, if kids are more prone to be football fanatics, it proves the point that African Americans are better athletes even more; the fact pure athleticism results in African Americans standing out amongst their peers, it shows that, if the passion for football is equal across all cultures in the south, it's even more impressive when SEC teams are predominately African Americans. From a talent standpoint, numbers will prove the talent pool in the south is on another level when compared to the midwest. So even though the level of passion, competition and overall football interest is greater in the south, African Americans' athletic ability results in a clear disparity between pure athletic ability between races. This isn't being racist.. This is mentioning the elephant in the middle of the room. It's not a coincidence that Kill has been preaching speed since he got here. As a result, our defense will feature 11 African Americans during this season.
 

mggoph

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Maybe it is because some "cultures" don't like cold weather. That should give this discussion some more fuel. By the way, have any of you noticed that there are no fast black ski racers? I also don't think there are many black ice fishermen, but that may be due to too much alcohol and/or lack of brains with white fishermen. Anyway it is a good sport for a slow white guy. Carry on.

Hey! I'm one of those slow white guys!
 

GopherVictory

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Chris Rock as Nat X (SNL)
“Top 5 Reasons Brothers don’t play hockey”:

Reason #5: It’s cold out there.
Reason #4: They scared to get their gold tooth knocked out.
Reason #3: Don’t want to be around white guys with sticks.
Reason #2: Don’t want to be around a white guy with a mask.
…and the #1 Reason Black Guys Don’t Play Hockey: Don’t feel the need to dominate yet another sport.
 




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