Where Kill thinks the state of Gopher football is at

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I've heard a lot from Coach about how the Gophs "got a long ways to go" and I think I know why. I think that when Kill was hired here, at a B1G program and a BCS school, he expected our athletes to be significantly bigger, stronger, and faster than SIU and NIU.. When in reality our Gophers aren't that far ahead of those two schools (specifically NIU) in those categories. And now that the Killer is evaluating the players up close and personal he's finding they aren't as far along as he expected.

So his statements that we have a ways to go are completely valid. We aren't as big, as strong, or as fast as a B1G, BCS program should be in his mind.

This is why I like Kill so much. He's not a-sceered of speaking the truth on what he thinks/sees with our Golden Gophers, despite how bleak it sounds right now. If he does what he plans on doing and makes our football team as big, strong and fast as they should be, in his opinion, then we should be on track to success.
 

Formo said:
I've heard a lot from Coach about how the Gophs "got a long ways to go" and I think I know why. I think that when Kill was hired here, at a B1G program and a BCS school, he expected our athletes to be significantly bigger, stronger, and faster than SIU and NIU.. When in reality our Gophers aren't that far ahead of those two schools (specifically NIU) in those categories. And now that the Killer is evaluating the players up close and personal he's finding they aren't as far along as he expected.

So his statements that we have a ways to go are completely valid. We aren't as big, as strong, or as fast as a B1G, BCS program should be in his mind.

This is why I like Kill so much. He's not a-sceered of speaking the truth on what he thinks/sees with our Golden Gophers, despite how bleak it sounds right now. If he does what he plans on doing and makes our football team as big, strong and fast as they should be, in his opinion, then we should be on track to success.
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Or, it could all be a smoke screen to avoid the heat.
 

Or it could be that talkind down about your players and saying not to expect much is a gimmick in itself.


Earth to fans......Do not read to much into anything a coach says ever.
 

harrys ghost said:
Or, it could all be a smoke screen to avoid the heat.
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I wouldn't call it a smokescreen because it sounds too much like a fabrication. I'd say he is being cautiously pestimistic particularly due to the academic pitfalls that shadow the program at this time. Frankly, I doubt very seriously that he is at all disappointed in the size of his personnel. Remember, they beat the Illini and Hawkeyes; two bowl teams that won their bowl games. Game speed, he has not been able to assess on his own and appropriately reserves comment. He knows the team turned in the worst pass rush statistics in the FBS and consequently has spoken openly about how we have to improve there. HE CALLS IT HOW HE SEES IT. LOVE THIS GUY!

I think he will benefit greatly having an All American recruit with proven Big Ten success and experience on the field, taking snaps for his offense. Particularly in light of an inexperienced OLine.
 


It's just a different way of talking. Brewster said a lot of the same things about needing to get bigger, stronger, faster, but that was lost on some who just heard "Rose Bowl". Kill's style of talking seems to appeal to more Minnesotan's especially those who have the power of the pen. I could care less how the coach talks as long as he wins.
 

Rosemountian said:
Or it could be that talkind down about your players and saying not to expect much is a gimmick in itself.


Earth to fans......Do not read to much into anything a coach says ever.
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Thank you for writing this. It is stunning to me to see how much people read into comments by coaches.
 

jags1998 said:
Thank you for writing this. It is stunning to me to see how much people read into comments by coaches.
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Jags, it is even more stunning to me to see how much some commentors read into comments by other commentors. :)
 




I think it just a case of breaking them down to build them up. He knows first hand how bad this team was last year, he brough NIU to TCF and they demolished the Gophers. But he also knows this team has talent at several positions and they will compete.
 

Let's face it, we lost our four year starting qb and we are now starting a qb with very little experience. Plus, our likely new starting qb was our second best receiver. That does not necessarily bode well for a great season. I would feel a lot better if MG was entering his second year as starting qb and not his first. Also, Kill said that we do have "pluses," which we do, but I do think it will be a struggle to win six games.
 

Hope springs eternal, and the Spring Scrimmages will tell all. I think Coach Kill is tamping down the expectations on purpose.
 




Why would anyone think we DON'T have a long way to go, given our history? This is not like taking over at Ohio State. Maturi set this program back 10 years with his hiring of Brewster and it's going to be a long road to get back to even the middle of the Big 10.
 

Coach Kill is the next coach in line to face the same familiar huge problem; build Minnesota football to respectability.
And once again, the players are learning a new system. Same old stuff around here as once again we are starting over.

This is still a young squad getting familiar with the basics of Kill's program. It will be interesting to see which players develop and how many are the type of player that Coach Kill wants. Lets hope that the nucleus is there rather than having Kill scramble to find the athletes he desires.
 

I am looking to 1984 as a template. The 1983 team was probably the worst in Gopher history. In 1984, Holtz's first year, we went 4-7 (3-6 BT) with a true freshman QB.
 

go4rob said:
Why would anyone think we DON'T have a long way to go, given our history? This is not like taking over at Ohio State. Maturi set this program back 10 years with his hiring of Brewster and it's going to be a long road to get back to even the middle of the Big 10.
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I'm not predicting sunshine and lollipops in the immediate future but by your estimation it's going to take 10 years to get back to the middle of the Big 10? Do you honestly believe that or are you just throwing numbers out there?
 

I think we need to have moderate expectations. We shouldn't be irrationally exuberant, but we also shouldn't be irrationally pessimistic either. It shouldn't take us 10 years to get back to the middle of the Big Ten, the Gophers were at mediocre under Brewster in 2008 and 2009. I do think that Kill is to an extent managing expectations. There was nothing wrong with Brewster's optimism, it's just that he couldn't back it up. The fan base just isn't ready to hear that kind of optimism after the Brewster years. Also, he doesn't want the players to get too full of themselves. Or non-conference opponents are not going to roll over in fear of us, they are going to feel like they have a chance. It's too easy for a team to get so high on themselves that they overlook opponents they should beat easily. The Gophers need to be as hungry as the opponents will be.
 

Kuato Lives! said:
I'm not predicting sunshine and lollipops in the immediate future but by your estimation it's going to take 10 years to get back to the middle of the Big 10? Do you honestly believe that or are you just throwing numbers out there?
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No I don't think it will take 10 years to get back to the middle of the Big 10. I think Coach Kill is a much better Coach than what we've had. What I said was I think that the hire of Brewster, while meant to take us to the next level UP in the Big 10, had the exact opposite effect and set us back (10 years what just a figure of speech as it still remains to be seen how far back in actuality).
 

6 months training

In WWII, the law of the land said an 18 year old draftee must have at least 6 months of training before entering a combat zone. We are talking about football. These kids don't need 6 months to play football. Spring ball and fall camp should about do it. The rest is garbage. This isn't rocket science. Nothing is at stake here. Can the qb throw the ball? Can the running back gain yards? Can the line punch the defensive line onto its heals? Can the wide outs catch the ball and not stink the joint up? Can anybody tackle? 4 years or 10 years is BS! Wars are won and lost faster than that, with the glaring exception of the non-war on terror. If we can not prepare 18, 19, 20 and 21 year old college kids for a few Saturdays than Kill and the U ought to hang it up and end the charade. I think we need to adjust our thinking here and demand excellence this year. I don't care who are players are, 1 star or 5 star. Kill should be able to get it done in less than 6 months. That is the old standard of far more importance. I believe in training for execution. So does Kill. Yesterdays record does not concern me. What can we do today concerns me. We win by what we do today.
 

Mustang Mountain Man said:
In WWII, the law of the land said an 18 year old draftee must have at least 6 months of training before entering a combat zone. We are talking about football. These kids don't need 6 months to play football. Spring ball and fall camp should about do it. The rest is garbage. This isn't rocket science. Nothing is at stake here. Can the qb throw the ball? Can the running back gain yards? Can the line punch the defensive line onto its heals? Can the wide outs catch the ball and not stink the joint up? Can anybody tackle? 4 years or 10 years is BS! Wars are won and lost faster than that, with the glaring exception of the non-war on terror. If we can not prepare 18, 19, 20 and 21 year old college kids for a few Saturdays than Kill and the U ought to hang it up and end the charade. I think we need to adjust our thinking here and demand excellence this year. I don't care who are players are, 1 star or 5 star. Kill should be able to get it done in less than 6 months. That is the old standard of far more importance. I believe in training for execution. So does Kill. Yesterdays record does not concern me. What can we do today concerns me. We win by what we do today.
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I'm nominating you for post of the year. Are we an outstanding team? No. Are we the worst team in the BCS? Not even close. Are we the worst team in the Big Ten? No. Is this team a disaster? Far from.

There is talent here. Not great--with a few exceptions--but good. Is this team coachable? I'd say yes. Is Jerry Kill the right guy at the right time? Absolutely. Jerry Kill is laying low because that's how you should play it. He is a coach's coach, and he knows absolutely, and without a doubt that he has the right system. This is not rocket science, it's football.

I think the players that "get it" (most of them) see the difference, and will listen. I think 6-6 with 3-5 in the Big Ten West is not inconceivable.
 

Mustang Mountain Man said:
In WWII, the law of the land said an 18 year old draftee must have at least 6 months of training before entering a combat zone. We are talking about football. These kids don't need 6 months to play football. Spring ball and fall camp should about do it. The rest is garbage. This isn't rocket science. Nothing is at stake here. Can the qb throw the ball? Can the running back gain yards? Can the line punch the defensive line onto its heals? Can the wide outs catch the ball and not stink the joint up? Can anybody tackle? 4 years or 10 years is BS! Wars are won and lost faster than that, with the glaring exception of the non-war on terror. If we can not prepare 18, 19, 20 and 21 year old college kids for a few Saturdays than Kill and the U ought to hang it up and end the charade. I think we need to adjust our thinking here and demand excellence this year. I don't care who are players are, 1 star or 5 star. Kill should be able to get it done in less than 6 months. That is the old standard of far more importance. I believe in training for execution. So does Kill. Yesterdays record does not concern me. What can we do today concerns me. We win by what we do today.
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How many of those 18 yo kids didn't make it home because six months was not adequate?

You can't teach size, speed or strength. Yes you can improve it but you also can't polish a turd. There is no coach who could come in here and produce a B1G champ with the players we have. Period. That doesn't mean we can't have a decent year, it just means you have to have some level of talent to work from that we just don't have yet.

It won't take ten years but there's a reason that coaches are given minimum three years to show improvement, let alone achieve any meaningful amount of wins. Changing cultures and systems takes time.
 

Mustang Mountain Man said:
In WWII, the law of the land said an 18 year old draftee must have at least 6 months of training before entering a combat zone. We are talking about football. These kids don't need 6 months to play football. Spring ball and fall camp should about do it. The rest is garbage. This isn't rocket science. Nothing is at stake here. Can the qb throw the ball? Can the running back gain yards? Can the line punch the defensive line onto its heals? Can the wide outs catch the ball and not stink the joint up? Can anybody tackle? 4 years or 10 years is BS! Wars are won and lost faster than that, with the glaring exception of the non-war on terror. If we can not prepare 18, 19, 20 and 21 year old college kids for a few Saturdays than Kill and the U ought to hang it up and end the charade. I think we need to adjust our thinking here and demand excellence this year. I don't care who are players are, 1 star or 5 star. Kill should be able to get it done in less than 6 months. That is the old standard of far more importance. I believe in training for execution. So does Kill. Yesterdays record does not concern me. What can we do today concerns me. We win by what we do today.
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Love the passion but the analogy is off base. Coaches can't will teams to victories. There is a big difference between a team with players that have been running the same offense for 3-5 years vs just learning. The team with the new offense has to learn everything from scratch. What are the numbering systems for holes? What is the system for routes? Is a comeback route 10 or 12 yds? What depth do the safeties line up in cover 4? You have to spend practice time getting these things straight while a team used to the same offense is working on the smaller checks and adjustments that can make a difference in games. In addition, football at it's core is about blocking and tackling and while size and speed aren't everything, if you're slower and smaller than your opponents then blocking and tackling are much more difficult. The reality is that football is a very complex sport where each play requires 11 moving parts all synchronized and working in tandem.
 

Lakeville Goldy said:
How many of those 18 yo kids didn't make it home because six months was not adequate?

You can't teach size, speed or strength. Yes you can improve it but you also can't polish a turd. There is no coach who could come in here and produce a B1G champ with the players we have. Period. That doesn't mean we can't have a decent year, it just means you have to have some level of talent to work from that we just don't have yet.

It won't take ten years but there's a reason that coaches are given minimum three years to show improvement, let alone achieve any meaningful amount of wins. Changing cultures and systems takes time.
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Those guys gained more ground, took more prisoners and beat 3 nations armies. Casualties were sure to come because the enemy was well armed and capable. You get an F for playing soldier in a vacuum. I stand by my comment on football on any given Saturday.
 

oleboy41 said:
Love the passion but the analogy is off base. Coaches can't will teams to victories. There is a big difference between a team with players that have been running the same offense for 3-5 years vs just learning. The team with the new offense has to learn everything from scratch. What are the numbering systems for holes? What is the system for routes? Is a comeback route 10 or 12 yds? What depth do the safeties line up in cover 4? You have to spend practice time getting these things straight while a team used to the same offense is working on the smaller checks and adjustments that can make a difference in games. In addition, football at it's core is about blocking and tackling and while size and speed aren't everything, if you're slower and smaller than your opponents then blocking and tackling are much more difficult. The reality is that football is a very complex sport where each play requires 11 moving parts all synchronized and working in tandem.
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My analogy is correct. Not only correct, a vastly more complex problem. 6 months. That is the standard. 6 months to learn how to maneuver with other units, artillery, air, sea, armor, infantry, signals, intelligence, engineering, air defense artillery, chemical, supply, logistics, you name it... That is the standard and don't tell me it is about size, speed, timing, yards. Simple stuff compared to war. Imagine timing an artillery strike too soon. Could screw up the offensive in the first few seconds. Imagine screwing up all how to load the rifle, could cause you to not engage the enemy. I know I am speaking more about the leadership, but that is the point. The athletes just need to execute the plan. I'm done with coaches who think that it takes years to build a team necessary to win. The time is right now. They say they have the coaching leaders to build a team. Let's see it. No talk now. Just do it. If I hear the excuse that we lost 22 players to academics. Not my problem. It's the coaches problem. Solve it. Leaders will get it done. Done with the apologists and the nay sayers. Don't come to this table and make proclamations that amount to didly nothing. If the guy cant win in the first 5 games, I'll be the first to ask for his head on a platter. Guaranteed. I think he can get it done. I hear the first excuse out of his mouth, I'll call for dismissal. I'm setting the bar at 6 months. At the end of September, we will know if this guy knows something about football, or if he too is full of smoke.
 

Mustang Mountain Man said:
My analogy is correct. Not only correct, a vastly more complex problem. 6 months. That is the standard. 6 months to learn how to maneuver with other units, artillery, air, sea, armor, infantry, signals, intelligence, engineering, air defense artillery, chemical, supply, logistics, you name it... That is the standard and don't tell me it is about size, speed, timing, yards. Simple stuff compared to war. Imagine timing an artillery strike too soon. Could screw up the offensive in the first few seconds. Imagine screwing up all how to load the rifle, could cause you to not engage the enemy. I know I am speaking more about the leadership, but that is the point. The athletes just need to execute the plan. I'm done with coaches who think that it takes years to build a team necessary to win. The time is right now. They say they have the coaching leaders to build a team. Let's see it. No talk now. Just do it. If I hear the excuse that we lost 22 players to academics. Not my problem. It's the coaches problem. Solve it. Leaders will get it done. Done with the apologists and the nay sayers. Don't come to this table and make proclamations that amount to didly nothing. If the guy cant win in the first 5 games, I'll be the first to ask for his head on a platter. Guaranteed. I think he can get it done. I hear the first excuse out of his mouth, I'll call for dismissal. I'm setting the bar at 6 months. At the end of September, we will know if this guy knows something about football, or if he too is full of smoke.
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Sorry but its completely different. You're talking 6 months of guys training day in and day out. Kill has 14 or 15 total practices in the spring and about 3 weeks of practicing in the fall to get a team he's never coached ready to play and all be on the same page to perform at a high enough level to beat teams that have been in the same systems for years and also coached by high paid professionals. There's no weapons advantage here and even if there was we'd be closer to WWII Egypt than America. Plenty of coaches come in with the attitude you're asking for but coaching is more teaching than anything else and you can't force your knowledge into players. You have to teach them and they have to understand what you want in a short time period. Your standards would have plenty of great coaches out on the street. Plenty of great coaches lose and lose badly their first few years. I work for a head coach that won a lot of games for a bad HS a few years back. He took a job at a struggling school with many problems and won 2 games last year. A coach can only do so much so soon. I have no idea how good we'll be next year but I do know that making a judgement on a coach after one year is almost always a bad idea. After 1 year Charlie Weiss was The Man. After one year Barry Alvarez and Kirk Ferentz were terrible.
 

Mustang Mountain Man said:
In WWII, the law of the land said an 18 year old draftee must have at least 6 months of training before entering a combat zone. We are talking about football. These kids don't need 6 months to play football. Spring ball and fall camp should about do it. The rest is garbage. This isn't rocket science. Nothing is at stake here. Can the qb throw the ball? Can the running back gain yards? Can the line punch the defensive line onto its heals? Can the wide outs catch the ball and not stink the joint up? Can anybody tackle? 4 years or 10 years is BS! Wars are won and lost faster than that, with the glaring exception of the non-war on terror. If we can not prepare 18, 19, 20 and 21 year old college kids for a few Saturdays than Kill and the U ought to hang it up and end the charade. I think we need to adjust our thinking here and demand excellence this year. I don't care who are players are, 1 star or 5 star. Kill should be able to get it done in less than 6 months. That is the old standard of far more importance. I believe in training for execution. So does Kill. Yesterdays record does not concern me. What can we do today concerns me. We win by what we do today.
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Statements like that are always great, you can reduce the complications of achieving excellence to simply other people not being motivated enough. In reality, almost all of the past failed Gopher staffs were made up of people who work harder than a very high percentage of the people on this board. "Let's just demand excellence", an intellectual breakthrough no one has thought of until now. We have been crappy for 50 years, and it all was avoidable just by demanding excellence. What is the great motivating factor making the demands effective?
Short of the old fashioned Roman technique of "decimation", (killing every 10th soldier after a loss), I can't think of too much that has not been tried other than investing in the program the way schools that want to win invest in their teams.
Our demanding excellence does not solve any problems, but Coach Kill demanding excellence in ways not seen here since Holtz can make a difference. (My view is that Kill is Holtz wihout the bombast, and maybe some of the offensive wizardry, and a lot more loyalty). What he needs is support, not assinine demands that no one enforce.
 

Mustang Mountain Man said:
In WWII, the law of the land said an 18 year old draftee must have at least 6 months of training before entering a combat zone. We are talking about football. These kids don't need 6 months to play football. Spring ball and fall camp should about do it. The rest is garbage. This isn't rocket science. Nothing is at stake here. Can the qb throw the ball? Can the running back gain yards? Can the line punch the defensive line onto its heals? Can the wide outs catch the ball and not stink the joint up? Can anybody tackle? 4 years or 10 years is BS! Wars are won and lost faster than that, with the glaring exception of the non-war on terror. If we can not prepare 18, 19, 20 and 21 year old college kids for a few Saturdays than Kill and the U ought to hang it up and end the charade. I think we need to adjust our thinking here and demand excellence this year. I don't care who are players are, 1 star or 5 star. Kill should be able to get it done in less than 6 months. That is the old standard of far more importance. I believe in training for execution. So does Kill. Yesterdays record does not concern me. What can we do today concerns me. We win by what we do today.
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B

Best post of 2011. Now I'm fired up.
 

I understand the point of the Army analogy, but I don't buy it. The other team in most cases has a coach just as smart, kids who work just as hard and has kids starting from a higher set point, working with more and better equipment.
 

I'm sure the fact that you can die in war plays no part in how quickly people learn to fight. Not in any way analogous to a football game. Spending 6 months being told your mistakes mean you and your friends are dead, being trained for 6 months to fear an attack around every corner or in today's army, to assume every piece of trash is an IED...none of this is in any way comparable to college football. The analogy is not apt, the analogy sucks. Football players are rightfully skewered for comparing their game to war. I see no reason not to dismiss this line of thinking for the same reason.
 

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