What letter grade would you give the 2011 Gopher recruiting class?

[GophersInIowa]

I am constantly amazed at the willingness of our fans to accept and even reward mediocrity. As I have said, Kill had some serious disadvantages and I expect and look forward to him doing much better with recruiting next year and beyond.

This class is typical of MN recruiting and is bottom of Big Ten and BCS. To grade this class a B is a joke...C is a gift, IMO. I am certain Kill isn't giving himself and his staff a B. He is saying what i am saying...no excuses, got to do better...time to go to work with what we have but need better to compete within our division and conference.

A "B"??? LOL.

I'm guessing some are grading it a B because of the circumstances (new coach, starting out late, winning 3 games last year including several embarrassing losses). If we were bringing this class in two years from now, it would not be a B. I personally would grade it a C+ at this point.

 

[MaxyJR1]

I compared this class with Pittsburgh's class. We have 22 commits and a total of 45 BCS offers for 2.05 per recruit. Pittsburgh has 20 commits at 63 BCS offers for 3.15 per recruit. Take into account that most of the Pittsburgh offers are Big East schools we are on pace with another school that just got a new coach.

Wisconsin has 19 commits with 123 BCS offers for 6.47 per recruit. That is where we want to be.

 

[JackiO]

We are 49th on Rivals. Our average rating is a few notches higher than that..higher 40's.
Iowa is at #29 with three more guys signed than us. Their average rating is 2.96 versus ours which was 2.85 before we ADDED a player and dropped to 2.82.

Look at the top 20 teams....we are not beating them anytime soon. TCU is number 26 with the success they had this season.

How can anyone say this is not an excellent year? When have we added preferred walkins to this extent? We have the 6 guys who sat out last year due to injury or transfer. We red shirted almost the whole class last year. I realize that has nothing to do with this recruiting class but I certainly get excited adding all this together. Then beating Iowa and not losing very much from that victory....gosh you gotta be excited for next year!

Would I like Estime to be in this group? Yup. Are there others? Sure but come on...this is a great job given the circumstances. This the baseline now, however. Coach Kill needs to do better next year. And I'm sure there will be some additions to straggle in this year as well.
I really like the job these guys did!

Look at the offer lists for the Iowa recruits and you cannot tell me that their class didn't smash ours. Most of our players offer lists are pretty weak. Iowa was beating out some big time schools for their kids. Goes to show you that the rating system for rivals and scout is still extremely flawed once you get out of the top 100 or 200 kids.

 

[USAFChief]

I think you HAVE to take account of circumstances when grading this class. You can't hold it to the same standard as a full class with a full year of recruitment. I give it a C, probably lean toward C-. It just lacks much pop, but that's not surprising to me really. That said, there's a lot of raw potential in this class, guys who with the right training actually could show out and become some very good players. It's just disappointing to have us whiff at the end on guys like Carter, Estime, and Clark. Just put a little bit of a bad taste near the end of the recruiting season.

"Taking into account the circumstances" is what got the Gophers into this mess.

Excuses are just that, excuses. The recruiting class is what it is, and should be judged as such.

Are future opponants going to 'take into account the circumstances' and spot the Gophers a touchdown, since Kill was at a disadvantage come recruiting time?

If Kill recruits at this level in future years, his stay will be short and he'll take his place with the list of other head coach failures.

 

[TLHGO4]

I was shuffling back and forth between B and C, and I ended up deciding on B. I think my main reason is because I just don't see nearly as much attrition out of this class. The Brew recruits have to be guys that loved the U because they stuck with the U through some pretty ugly moments and the new guys are guys that Kill has recruited. I point that out because Kill seems to have said that he puts a premium on wanting to be here and academics, if that isn't just lip service, we should start seeing better and better player retention.

So if this class, which seems "ok" talent wise can grow and avoid the kind of attrition of the last classes then it will be a pretty decent class.

I agree with Bob. Given the circumstances this class is a solid B. The same group next year would be a C. Coach'em up, Jerry.

 

[btowngopher]

"Taking into account the circumstances" is what got the Gophers into this mess.

Excuses are just that, excuses. The recruiting class is what it is, and should be judged as such.

Are future opponants going to 'take into account the circumstances' and spot the Gophers a touchdown, since Kill was at a disadvantage come recruiting time?

If Kill recruits at this level in future years, his stay will be short and he'll take his place with the list of other head coach failures.

Mason got 10 years with his average class being worse than this one.

 

[eag35]

When all else fails, rip Mason...bored with it.

 

[btowngopher]

When all else fails, rip Mason...bored with it.

I didn't rip Mason. Can I state a fact?

 

[dpodoll68]

I've never purchased a lottery ticket, so I can't help you there.

From your previous post, I had assumed you had the power to see the future.

Or is your clairvoyance limited solely to seeing where the Gophers will finish in the Big Ten standings? You could help me out by telling me that - I could get quite wealthy by placing a prop bet or two.

 

[Seany]

I'LL GET BACK TO YOU IN 3 YRS. BECAUSE NOW IT'S ALL SPECULATION!!!

Exactly. You can really only judge a recruiting class in hindsight, after they've played for a few years and proven what they can (or cannot) do, but as per right now, given the circumstances of the coaching change and short recruiting window and relative to the status of other B10 recruiting classes, I give it a 'B'.

I'd bet money that Kill has found some players who may not be so highly ranked but who will fit into his schemes and what he wants to do, and become very good players as a result of that and despite their lack of being highly ranked recruits.

 

[RodentRampage]

A coach that has a whole year to recruit is expected to be able to pull in a better recruiting class than a coach who has had two months to recruit. The quality of the recruiting class itself and the job that Coach Kill did in putting this class together are two separate issues.

 

[dpodoll68]

Where exactly would you rate our class than? Compared with the rest of the big ten, especially in our division, we are way way behind in terms of talent taken in this year.

First of all, my point was that no major recruiting services have Minnesota at the bottom of the Big Ten or anywhere near the bottom of the BCS schools. Not one.

But since you asked for my insignificant opinion, our class is clearly better than:

- Purdue: They beat out a lot of schools on their high-end prospects, but they only signed 13 players. Quantity has to be taken into account. Focusing your efforts on a small number of players in the hopes of getting a few of quality is not a viable long-term strategy. Plus, their bottom end were kids that had offers from Purdue and either no one else or 1-2 Sun Belt schools. Danny Hope's strategy seems to be going full-bore into Florida to the detriment of his local recruiting base. They signed two players from Indiana this year.

- Northwestern: Again, only 17 kids. Their top 5-6 was pretty solid, but they take a steep dropoff into the abyss after that. Given that they are the only school in Chicago, they should be able to recruit there better than they do. They have a great coach, but they could really be a contender if their recruiting took a step forward.

- Indiana: They did manage to sign one 4-star (probably because he wanted to play in the Big Ten and his only other BCS offer was from WVU), but they had 8 2-stars in a class of 21. Their strategy appears to be beating out the MAC for all the leftovers in IN and OH that no other BCS schools want.

I would probably trade our top 6 for either of Northwestern or Purdue's top 6, but no way would I trade the rest for the rest of theirs. There is also a pretty steep divide between us and the rest of the schools ahead of us, but we are quite comfortably ahead of the aforementioned schools in my opinion. I don't care to do the research, but I'm quite certain that there are at least 10-15 BCS schools with worse recruiting classes than ours, including most of the Big East, Vanderbilt, Washington St., etc.

 

[BBShopGo4]

Recruit grades vs. wins???

So, that ranks a C. I'll say this, though. If Kill brings in this level of class next year, I'd be inclined to give it a D. And in 2013, F.

I'm curious, will the teams win/loss record factor into your grades? In other words, if Coach Kill can win with classes of this level, does he still get an F in 2013? Your post could be construed that way.

My answer is no. I really don't care how the classes grade out. I care about whether Coach Kill and his staff can get the players he needs to win games. There are numerous examples of teams that can win with similar recruiting classes, so it can be done. Sure, I'd love to have higher ranked recruits that generate national attention and see guys put on UofM hats at the UA and AA All-Star games. But I'll defer to the coaching staff to determine which guys they think they need to win games. I will hand out grades based upon what happens on the field.

 

[Bisker82]

I'm curious, will the teams win/loss record factor into your grades? In other words, if Coach Kill can win with classes of this level, does he still get an F in 2013? Your post could be construed that way.

My answer is no. I really don't care how the classes grade out. I care about whether Coach Kill and his staff can get the players he needs to win games. There are numerous examples of teams that can win with similar recruiting classes, so it can be done. Sure, I'd love to have higher ranked recruits that generate national attention and see guys put on UofM hats at the UA and AA All-Star games. But I'll defer to the coaching staff to determine which guys they think they need to win games. I will hand out grades based upon what happens on the field.

+1000

 

[TLHGO4]

On a positive note we only lost one MN kid to a Big Ten school (Marz to WI). In return we got two from IL and one each from IA and WI.

 

[50PoundHead]

First of all, my point was that no major recruiting services have Minnesota at the bottom of the Big Ten or anywhere near the bottom of the BCS schools. Not one.

But since you asked for my insignificant opinion, our class is clearly better than:

- Purdue: They beat out a lot of schools on their high-end prospects, but they only signed 13 players. Quantity has to be taken into account. Focusing your efforts on a small number of players in the hopes of getting a few of quality is not a viable long-term strategy. Plus, their bottom end were kids that had offers from Purdue and either no one else or 1-2 Sun Belt schools. Danny Hope's strategy seems to be going full-bore into Florida to the detriment of his local recruiting base. They signed two players from Indiana this year.

- Northwestern: Again, only 17 kids. Their top 5-6 was pretty solid, but they take a steep dropoff into the abyss after that. Given that they are the only school in Chicago, they should be able to recruit there better than they do. They have a great coach, but they could really be a contender if their recruiting took a step forward.

- Indiana: They did manage to sign one 4-star (probably because he wanted to play in the Big Ten and his only other BCS offer was from WVU), but they had 8 2-stars in a class of 21. Their strategy appears to be beating out the MAC for all the leftovers in IN and OH that no other BCS schools want.

I would probably trade our top 6 for either of Northwestern or Purdue's top 6, but no way would I trade the rest for the rest of theirs. There is also a pretty steep divide between us and the rest of the schools ahead of us, but we are quite comfortably ahead of the aforementioned schools in my opinion. I don't care to do the research, but I'm quite certain that there are at least 10-15 BCS schools with worse recruiting classes than ours, including most of the Big East, Vanderbilt, Washington St., etc.

Great analysis.

 

[WAGopher]

I grade this class a solid C, but it has the potential to look better in a few years. If we could have landed a good RB and DT, I may have given it a B.

 

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

I'm curious, will the teams win/loss record factor into your grades? In other words, if Coach Kill can win with classes of this level, does he still get an F in 2013? Your post could be construed that way.

My answer is no. I really don't care how the classes grade out. I care about whether Coach Kill and his staff can get the players he needs to win games. There are numerous examples of teams that can win with similar recruiting classes, so it can be done. Sure, I'd love to have higher ranked recruits that generate national attention and see guys put on UofM hats at the UA and AA All-Star games. But I'll defer to the coaching staff to determine which guys they think they need to win games. I will hand out grades based upon what happens on the field.

You make some good points. Ultimately, I agree it comes down to what happens on the field. Probably the biggest positive about Coach Kill is he seems to know how to do more with less. But he's not in the MAC any more. And while there's a lot of overlap between MAC and BT level talent, you aren't going to get to Pasadena with classes like this one year after year. Mason proved that. I don't care if Kill is the second coming of Vince Lombardi.

I apologize if my post seemed too harsh. And like I said, 90% of these recruiting rankings are BS, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over whether we're ranked 37th or 49th. But in order to get a better grade in the future, I would think Kill has to do a couple of things:

1.Close down the borders. Particularly losing guys to wisky or Iowa. Kids like that OL profiled in the StP paper today need to be committing here next year.

2.Bring in some 4 star recruits, particularly at the skill positions. I'm not a recruitnik, but I don't believe there are any 4* players in this year's class (maybe a couple that would have gotten a bonus star if they went to OSU)

3.Like you said, at some point it would help to have some kids at the AA games putting on a maroon cap. A lot of this is generating buzz and hype. Start at home, and then work your way outwards. And that won't happen overnight

 

[RodentRampage]

You make some good points. Ultimately, I agree it comes down to what happens on the field. Probably the biggest positive about Coach Kill is he seems to know how to do more with less. But he's not in the MAC any more. And while there's a lot of overlap between MAC and BT level talent, you aren't going to get to Pasadena with classes like this one year after year. Mason proved that. I don't care if Kill is the second coming of Vince Lombardi.

We just came off a 3-9 season, and Kill's been here less than two months. I would expect that we would have better results if he is able to recruit for a full year, and if we are better than a 3-9 team.

 

[denguegopher]

We just came off a 3-9 season, and Kill's been here less than two months. I would expect that we would have better results if he is able to recruit for a full year, and if we are better than a 3-9 team.

There are at least 2 types of evaluations: 1) norm referenced (how did we do compared to everyone else), and 2) criterion referenced, (where are we and where should we be?). I think that those who have used norm referenced standards rate us low, while those who have employed criterion reference standards rate the class higher. Under the current circumstances (new coach, limited recruiting time, etc) I think that a criterion reference is more meaningful.

 

[USAFChief]

There are at least 2 types of evaluations: 1) norm referenced (how did we do compared to everyone else), and 2) criterion referenced, (where are we and where should we be?). I think that those who have used norm referenced standards rate us low, while those who have employed criterion reference standards rate the class higher. Under the current circumstances (new coach, limited recruiting time, etc) I think that a criterion reference is more meaningful.

"Current circumstances" may be valid, but have zero impact on whether or not this group of recruits will help win more football games in the future.

If you're rating this class--and that's what this thread asks for--then you rate the class based solely on what it brings to the UofM football program.

"Kill got a late start" is true, but meaningless in terms of future wins and losses generated by this group of recruits.

"He'll do better in the future" may be true (let's hope so), but is meaningless in terms of future wins and losses generated by this group of recruits.

This class is what it is. It should be graded thusly.

Criterion referenced is just another way of saying 'grading on a curve,' which makes mediocrity look and feel better but doesn't give you much in terms of accurate evaluation.

 

[denguegopher]

"If you're rating this class--and that's what this thread asks for--then you rate the class based solely on what it brings to the UofM football program." .

At this point how could anyone know this?

 

[Dr.Don]

I gave it a C simply because I don't know a damned thing. IOW, I think that maybe I don't know.

After reading all posts on this thread, I firmly believe that I was the most honest in my reasoning.

 

[USAFChief]

At this point how could anyone know this?

Well, that might be a valid point, but that's not what the thread asks for. If you're assigning a letter grade to this recruiting class, what else you you base it on other than what you believe it brings to the UofM football program?

 

[FireCosgroveGuy]

Either a C or D, probably a C-. There are a few guys that could be really good but its an underwhelming class IMO. Didn't expect anything more in a transition year.

 

[maxwellsmart]

I am constantly amazed at the willingness of our fans to accept and even reward mediocrity. As I have said, Kill had some serious disadvantages and I expect and look forward to him doing much better with recruiting next year and beyond.

This class is typical of MN recruiting and is bottom of Big Ten and BCS. To grade this class a B is a joke...C is a gift, IMO. I am certain Kill isn't giving himself and his staff a B. He is saying what i am saying...no excuses, got to do better...time to go to work with what we have but need better to compete within our division and conference.

A "B"??? LOL.

The "joke" is grading a recruiting class before even one of them has so much as fastened a chin strap. It's an exercise well suited for the talking heads on ESPN, who think nothing of being inaccurate a significant amount of the time. I'll pass if only for the sake of maintaining some semblance of dignityFor those of you so anxious to pass judgement the very day LOI's are signed: What about the way players might mature physically and mentally? What about the way they may or may not fit well and develop as players within the system? Sheesh!

 

[Rouser4eVA]

How many of these players have I ever seen play in person? Zip
How many of these players have ever played together? the IL brothers?
How many of these players have we ever seen block for our running backs or catch Gray's ball or tackle a Big Ten RB? None
How many of these players have played a down for Coach Kill, Claeys, Limegrover, the U of MN? Zilch
So what do I think of this class? I have no freakin' clue, but dang, August seems to be an eternity away.

 

[samloupete]

Grade

D-

 

[Tx_Gopher]

[D]ang, August seems to be an eternity away.

This.

 

[GoGophers2005]

B
I believe people are ho hum on this recruiting class solely on the fact that we didn't bring in any running backs or flash on offense.

I also think its bogus to rank a kid based on the number of offers he has. Tommy Olson would have received an offer from every school in the country if his dad and brother weren't Gophers.

Take a look at the recruiting video folks....that Montgomery kid has some talent. Check out how effortlessly he can run and hit. Check out the nice smooth arm on Shortell. Check out the pancake blocks by the Mcivoy (spelling) brothers. That Tuft kid from Edina is just as fast on the football field as he is on the track.