What is the Problem?

[caliGopher]

On the INT to end the game sure looked like he went through progressions from 9 to 14 to 22. Just not a great throw, forced it rather than taking the underneath man. I suppose he wanted to stop the clock with a first down. Bad decision, yep.

Getting drilled as he threw so he couldn't follow through didn't help.

 

[Plato]

These are PJ's recruits, his coordinators, and his team.
PJ is the captain of the ship and when things go wrong he takes the blame.

 

[Dakota2]

No read option under Ciarocca if I remember right. Was either straight hand-off, slant, slant & go, bubble screen, (Wildcat?)

To be honest it just tells you how good Johnson and Bateman were

Not Johnson nor Bateman could have caught the balls Morgan threw today. Seven throws were badly off the mark including the two interceptions. Three others batted down. If Fleck is serious about winning there will be three new guys next week at QB, right tackle, and calling plays.

 

[hello-world]

We literally run almost an identical offense to two years ago

Is it though? I remember watching Morgan read the safety on every play and throwing daggers across the middle whenever it looked like they were going to come in on run support. I remember Minnesota checking to deep passes whenever a subpar corner was left on an island.

None of those things are happening right now. He's throwing his receivers into the safety, throwing deep into double / triple coverage, etc. Those were things we didn't see in KC's offense. Honestly, his throwing motion even looks worse than it was two years ago.

I'll admit, I'm biased. I thought Sanford was a bad hire. The offenses and quarterbacks he works with seem to get worse with time, not better. Think given the offensive line play today, there's a chance that we might have seen the last of him.

 

[fmlizard]

There's many, but receivers not getting open was a big one.

We as fans tend to judge WR on the catching part but coaches would say that route running and separation skill are just as much or more a part of WR play. Receivers not getting open doesn't show up on the TV broadcast, it just looks like a QB running around not throwing. Unless you pay close attention to it and either attend the game watching from a high sideline vantage point or watch the All 22 it's a silent deficiency.

 

[Herd]

Happy feet, not having superstars to catch everything, confidence waning.

KG gets it, simply put, he has lost his confidence. Im not saying go away from him permanently, but yesterday it was best for the team to sit him. Might take a change to breathe some life into the team during a struggle like yesterday.

 

[jonnyganas]

Non-con play calling is too vanilla, especially in situations where it is close or we are behind. As a fan, it feels like we are watching the team learn some kind of lesson from Fleck, instead of playing to win. I imagine Fleck challenging his OC to only use 4 plays, thinking a "good" football team should beat this level of opponent with basic, limited scheme. I don't know if it's gamesmanship to hide our plays from division opponents or some old coaching philosophy, but I hate it. We had to pull a game saving drive out of our ass for Georgia Southern in 2019 which was then held up as an example of what that team was made of. Perhaps they wanted another one of those games. I hope that the B1G season they cut that crap out and show what this offense can do.

The OL just didn't show up against BG and was the main problem in that game. They have shown up in big ways before, so I have some confidence they will return to form.

 

[Word]

KG gets it, simply put, he has lost his confidence. Im not saying go away from him permanently, but yesterday it was best for the team to sit him. Might take a change to breathe some life into the team during a struggle like yesterday.

Lots of QBs lose confidence after getting drilled like he did. For all we know he was hurt too.

 

[NotAFanOfBecky]

KG gets it, simply put, he has lost his confidence. Im not saying go away from him permanently, but yesterday it was best for the team to sit him. Might take a change to breathe some life into the team during a struggle like yesterday.

I agree. I love TM, he’s more than capable of driving this car but when he got smoked on that blitz that they initially called targeting on, he changed. He was seeing ghosts. He needed to sit for a bit and get composed again. Same for Big Dan! For me, it was the Oline that crapped the bed. It was as bad of line play that I’ve ever seen. I’ve watched Gopher football for 45+ years and this was right up there. There is way too much talent on that line to play like that. They got badly outcoached by the BG d coordinator and couldn’t figure out the stunts or blitzes. This team can still win the West with the talent they have but need to figure out the offense. On the other side very, very happy with how the D has played the last 2 games. Hopefully that can continue!

 

[MplsGopher]

You’re giving too much credit to Johnson and Bateman. If Ciarocca was here this offense would be much better. The game plan and play calling would be much better. Does Fleck call the plays?

Play calling is one thing.

Let us also not forget that Ciarrocca and Sanford were/are also the QB position coaches.


On your question: I have zero inside info, but I suspect Fleck does not call ever offensive play. I suspect he does not work intensively on developing the gameplan. But I do suspect he has a lot of creative influence on the scheme and the gameplan, and can also have an "overall influence" on play calls at times.

Like, in certain situations he might get on the radio and say "Mike, I want a play-action throw here, give me the best one we've had in the game so far" or something like that.

 

[MplsGopher]

I don’t debate this. OL was terrible. But Morgan’s issues aren’t just this game. It goes back to the start of 2020. I was in the camp of let Morgan play and hope he works through his problems. But after this game, I am firmly in the “try somebody else” camp. His throws, even when he had time weren’t good.

That's true on the bad ones. He has had some great throws this season, I don't think anyone can deny that, right?

And again .... Ohio State? How did he pull that off, then?


Maybe it all comes down to how well we're running and thus how well play-action is working.

I have not done, nor seen anyone do, an analysis of just the pure passing situations, where it's a dropback pass and everyone knows it. We don't do that a ton.

And pressure can certainly muck those up.

 

[btowngopher]

He didn’t really read defenses two years ago and it worked fine. But he had wideouts who could just flat out out-compete the opponents for balls

In games when the run game isn’t working, MN will struggle to score with Morgan

They’ll struggle to score with anyone because they just keep running whether it’s working or not.

 

[Some guy]

They’ll struggle to score with anyone because they just keep running whether it’s working or not.

That’s not new. This looks very much like the 2017, early 2018, and 2020 offenses.

 

[BTChamp]

All of this Tanner/Sanford/ Fleck talk is part of the problem, but the real problem is all on me. I didn't wear my lucky Gopher shorts.

Sorry guys, you can blame me.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I know many of you played high school football. You know how you had some big guys who played, started, and were big, but really didn't have a drive or total love of football.

I question that about our offensive line. They are big, strong, etc......but do they have the drive and nasty?

I don't think that's their issue. When our OL struggle it's with athleticism. I can't think of any of them I wouldn't consider a mauler.

 

[hungan1]

The offense was almost identical under ciarocca


Not sure what you’re watching

Yeah, on paper it says that. What we have is a dufus knock-off.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

The offense was almost identical under ciarocca


Not sure what you’re watching

It really wasn't. It often looked similar but the offense with Ciarocca probably had 35-50% more slants on offense. He believed much more in max protect and a fewer options in the passing game. We are throwing the ball more than 2X more often to TEs and RBs and we have to running max protect passing plays 3Xs less often in 2021 than 2019. The routes are even different. I think Sanford tried to move a bit back to more slants at the end of the year last year, but nowhere near what we used to. If you actually watch the routes and the number of people out on routes on each play, it's completely different.

There is also a style difference and I'm not sure how much of that is PJ or not. But Ciarocca mixed it up a bit more and certainly rotated more people at RB.

 

[hungan1]

I dno’t konw, but my biarn fog tlles me yastredey’s lsos was an ilulsoin. It’s slilt yaer zero aeftr all in my dearms. My msucles wehre aichng and I was in a clod seewt when I wkoe up srcemaing, “tehy’ve hierd a jakuynrd delaer”!

 

[MplsGopher]

Agree that the offense "looks" similar to 2019 because we're using a lot of "big" personnel groups, and even send in extra OL to be blockers.

Disagree that it actually is similar, because they don't call the plays the same - particularly rhythm, something PJ said in the post-game "we couldn't get into any kind of rhythm" - and things like the kinds of routes that Bob is talking about. I don't ever watch the routes develop, I'm always watching the ball and the lines, so I'll have to take someone's word on that.

 

[BTChamp]

I dno’t konw, but my biarn fog tlles me yastredey’s lsos was an ilulsoin. It’s slilt yaer zero aeftr all in my dearms. My msucles wehre aichng and I was in a clod seewt when I wkoe up srcemaing, “tehy’ve hierd a jakuynrd delaer”!

Talon?

 

[hungan1]

Please let's not have a chant, " Do the Gopher".

 

[PMWinSTP]

Is it though? I remember watching Morgan read the safety on every play and throwing daggers across the middle whenever it looked like they were going to come in on run support. I remember Minnesota checking to deep passes whenever a subpar corner was left on an island.

None of those things are happening right now. He's throwing his receivers into the safety, throwing deep into double / triple coverage, etc. Those were things we didn't see in KC's offense. Honestly, his throwing motion even looks worse than it was two years ago.

I'll admit, I'm biased. I thought Sanford was a bad hire. The offenses and quarterbacks he works with seem to get worse with time, not better. Think given the offensive line play today, there's a chance that we might have seen the last of him.

I don't remember it that way. A vast majority of the time the #1 was open to me.

 

[Some guy]

It really wasn't. It often looked similar but the offense with Ciarocca probably had 35-50% more slants on offense. He believed much more in max protect and a fewer options in the passing game. We are throwing the ball more than 2X more often to TEs and RBs and we have to running max protect passing plays 3Xs less often in 2021 than 2019. The routes are even different. I think Sanford tried to move a bit back to more slants at the end of the year last year, but nowhere near what we used to. If you actually watch the routes and the number of people out on routes on each play, it's completely different.

There is also a style difference and I'm not sure how much of that is PJ or not. But Ciarocca mixed it up a bit more and certainly rotated more people at RB.

Not throwing slants and not running slants are two completely different things.

running them and not throwing them doesn’t make there be less of them.


I can defer to you though as it sounds like you count things as you watch

 

[MplsGopher]

I can defer to you though

Thanks, that will save people having to reply to you trying to pass your wild guesses off as informed, experienced opinions.

 

[Tim from Rosemount]

I’m glad we ripped out the slants and tunnel screens from our playbook. Those never worked in 2019.

We needed Seth Green to convert 3rd and 4th and short on numerous occasions in 2019. I think that was an underrated factor in keeping drives alive, all year.
We are missing the same caliber of playmaker wide receivers right now
Potts isn’t quite Mo, and particularly playing injured.
Bizarre play calling at times.
Lack of urgency/running out the clock on ourselves in the 4th
Tanner Morgan regressing under Sanfords coaching

This team has been so up and down under PJF genuinely don’t know what to expect each week. We could go on to win the West and it wouldn’t surprise me that much.

Yes. Sanford is killing Morgan as he regressed last year and his barely keeping his head above water this year. Remember 2019? I know you had two NFL WR’s, but Morgan still had to get the ball to him.

 

[Tim from Rosemount]

The play calling is nowhere near identical.

You are correct. It’s not identical. We were not running up the middle nonstop. We were mixing it up, running off tackle, running slants, and simple down and outs. We’re doing very little of that stuff this year.

 

[Tim from Rosemount]

These are PJ's recruits, his coordinators, and his team.
PJ is the captain of the ship and when things go wrong he takes the blame.

I can take the blame too. Taking the blame and doing something about it are two different things.

 

[Taji34]

Wish you could pick multiple, as I would have picked coaching-offense AND OL. The coaching was first and foremost, but the OL didn't help. No reason BG should have gotten anywhere close to Morgan on any play, much less sack him.

However, seeing that, you gotta start calling more plays that give Morgan more protection. We saw that in 2019 with our old OC, extra QB protection when warranted and it worked!

I believe very much Morgan needs to get in a rhythm and build confidence, and both in 2020 and 2021 the only game where I've seen that a bit was the CO game.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

Is it though? I remember watching Morgan read the safety on every play and throwing daggers across the middle whenever it looked like they were going to come in on run support. I remember Minnesota checking to deep passes whenever a subpar corner was left on an island.

None of those things are happening right now. He's throwing his receivers into the safety, throwing deep into double / triple coverage, etc. Those were things we didn't see in KC's offense. Honestly, his throwing motion even looks worse than it was two years ago.

I'll admit, I'm biased. I thought Sanford was a bad hire. The offenses and quarterbacks he works with seem to get worse with time, not better. Think given the offensive line play today, there's a chance that we might have seen the last of him.

I can agree with this, Morgan's throwing motion doesn't look the same as even last year. This year and he has been getting hit a lot more. Should watch the film and compare. I am hoping the Gophers change the play calling duties over for this upcoming game. We need something to change or this season is going to spiral downwards. O-line play has been sub-par to what has been expected.