What grade would you give PJ Fleck in his Gopher debut season?

What grade would you give PJ Fleck in his Gopher debut season?

  • A

    Votes: 12 5.7%

  • B

    Votes: 21 10.0%

  • C

    Votes: 60 28.6%

  • D

    Votes: 79 37.6%

  • F

    Votes: 38 18.1%
  • Total voters
    210
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Sunday NCAA stats: Gopher overall defense 29th in nation (about like last year); Croft 120th in passing yards per game with 41.5% completion, 4 TDs, 7 interceptions; Gophers 122 of 129 teams in total offense, 121st in passing. Coaches brought nothing to the table on offense, biggest victories being over weak teams like Oregon St (1-11) and a 4-7 Nebraska team that had its worst season since 1961, plus 2-10 Illinois. Our passing was often worse than that of the triple option service teams (2 completions vs NW, 3 vs Wisconsin). Coaches did okay on defense, flopped on offense (yet again, we have seen this before). QB is the most important player on the team - we need an outstanding QB! Team had no identity on offense other than RUTM in early games. As said earlier, B for defense, F for offense, overall D for season record and team development, as well as game day coaching.
 

mkAz said:
Is 5 wins really a disaster? Sure, it was bad at times, but enough with the hyperbole.
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Two shutouts to end the season. 133 yards vs 286 last year against Wisc. 3 games with less than 200 yards of offense vs 0 games last year under 250 yards of offense. 1,000 less yards in offense than any of the previous 4 seasons. Scoring offense rank of 109 vs 63 last year. T/O margin rank of 70 vs 18 last year.

Looks like pretty disastrous to me.
 


I think what PJ and the Gophers need is another trademark phrase. So, here's PJ at the close of next year's presser...
"I want to thank all of you for coming out to support the program. Ski-u-mah! Row-the-boat! Whoomp there it is!"
 

PMWinSTP said:
Two shutouts to end the season. 133 yards vs 286 last year against Wisc. 3 games with less than 200 yards of offense vs 0 games last year under 250 yards of offense. 1,000 less yards in offense than any of the previous 4 seasons. Scoring offense rank of 109 vs 63 last year. T/O margin rank of 70 vs 18 last year.

Looks like pretty disastrous to me.
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The offense was bad. The defense wasn’t nor was the season as a whole the disaster you guys believe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 


B

The program came along way even tho it hasn't shown on the field. I know some of the players having lived next door to many of them and the program was in chaos internally. The press didn't get the half of it.

The on field stuff will change in the coming years when we have classes ranked higher than 86
 

scools12 said:
The offense was bad. The defense wasn’t nor was the season as a whole the disaster you guys believe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Gophs play 5 teams with winning records. Lost all five games by a combined score of 47-150. Got curb stomped twice on national TV.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Gophs play 5 teams with winning records. Lost all five games by a combined score of 47-150. Got curb stomped twice on national TV.
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It's a recruiting selling point. "If you want to play immediately and grow into a chanpionship...come to Minnesota."
"Minnesota, things are looking up!"
 

I voted D yesterday on emotion but would probably change it to C today. C- seems about right to me. F would've been a loss in the nonconference or to Illinois. Defense was fairly solid and playing with a new set of DB's seemingly every week (with our best one out the entire conference schedule). Everyone was learning a new scheme and Coughlin was learning a brand new position. On O, we lost a starting T for the year and had several other OL in and out with injuries. Brooks missed at least parts of 4 games, TJ missed 2 games, Douglas out most of the season, Lingen out much of the season (and ineffective when present). Also learning a new scheme that was like plugging square pegs into round holes with that OL we were running out there. Team looked organized and took far fewer penalties this year, which tells me practices were well-run and disciplined.

I'm disappointed in the results, but I'm hopeful for a light uptick next year based on getting luckier with injuries and having an extra year to adjust to the scheme. I'll give a way too early prediction of 6-6 with 2 more very close losses...and many GHers saying they hate the uniform's, 4th down fist raises, and Fleck's shoes.
 



JZsportswhiz said:
The program was in chaos internally. The press didn't get the half of it.
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Unless you're going to post all the details, don't post this type of comment. Give us your source and more details.
 

JZsportswhiz said:
B

The program came along way even tho it hasn't shown on the field. I know some of the players having lived next door to many of them and the program was in chaos internally. The press didn't get the half of it.

The on field stuff will change in the coming years when we have classes ranked higher than 86
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That isn’t on the head coach? Isn’t he supposed to get everybody to buy in? And I’m not doubting you, this has been 10 quarters of clown show.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
Sunday NCAA stats: Gopher overall defense 29th in nation (about like last year); Croft 120th in passing yards per game with 41.5% completion, 4 TDs, 7 interceptions; Gophers 122 of 129 teams in total offense, 121st in passing. Coaches brought nothing to the table on offense, biggest victories being over weak teams like Oregon St (1-11) and a 4-7 Nebraska team that had its worst season since 1961, plus 2-10 Illinois. Our passing was often worse than that of the triple option service teams (2 completions vs NW, 3 vs Wisconsin). Coaches did okay on defense, flopped on offense (yet again, we have seen this before). QB is the most important player on the team - we need an outstanding QB! Team had no identity on offense other than RUTM in early games. As said earlier, B for defense, F for offense, overall D for season record and team development, as well as game day coaching.
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Circling back to my original post the final regular season numbers are in from S&P+:

Overall 97th in FBS
Offense 119th
Defense 43rd
Special teams 107th
 




I can't be sure but I'm pretty sure it means we were bad "despite" winning 5 games. 5* victories.

It doesn't mean we will continue to stink or Fleck can't get better or recruit better. It means this was a very bad overall product, in 2017.
 

JZsportswhiz said:
B

The program came along way even tho it hasn't shown on the field. I know some of the players having lived next door to many of them and the program was in chaos internally. The press didn't get the half of it.

The on field stuff will change in the coming years when we have classes ranked higher than 86
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Total B.S.
 


Great Plains Gopher said:
Sunday NCAA stats: Gopher overall defense 29th in nation (about like last year); Croft 120th in passing yards per game with 41.5% completion, 4 TDs, 7 interceptions; Gophers 122 of 129 teams in total offense, 121st in passing. Coaches brought nothing to the table on offense, biggest victories being over weak teams like Oregon St (1-11) and a 4-7 Nebraska team that had its worst season since 1961, plus 2-10 Illinois. Our passing was often worse than that of the triple option service teams (2 completions vs NW, 3 vs Wisconsin). Coaches did okay on defense, flopped on offense (yet again, we have seen this before). QB is the most important player on the team - we need an outstanding QB! Team had no identity on offense other than RUTM in early games. As said earlier, B for defense, F for offense, overall D for season record and team development, as well as game day coaching.
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On defense, we went from 21 to 29th which isn't about like last year, but it wasn't an abysmal drop-off. Overall we went from 4th in the Big Ten to 7th. In Conference, we went from 7th to 10th in total defense. Given some of the challenges with depth and injury, to be expected. Throw in the complete incompetence on offense this year, that didn't help statistically. While I do think the Wisconsin game was one of the better efforts by the "D" I think who we played and the fact that the game was never in any danger had a bigger impact on the result than anything our "D" did.

On offense, I think we out-thought ourselves regularly. Once the coaches feel better they have "their" players, I expect they'll get back to what they want to do, so from that perspective, I expect the offense will get marginally better next year with a still shakey O-Line and limited options at WR, even if the QB of the future arrives, those problems won't be fixed overnight. I think we'll see what our scheme is going to be more consistently, however.

I think from a scheme perspective, the "D" was very different this year - much different than the stats above indicate. I expect the "D" will get worse next year and unless the scheme significantly changes, I don't see a trend taking us back into the top half of the conference in defense. We played soft on defense and that will become more of an issue that will get exploited if we actually threaten teams on offense next year (at least ones that aren't self imploding). If we'd shown a pulse yesterday, the score could have been much worse. It appears we're heading back to the Mason days of the best defense is a good offense. I'm not gonna lie. Disappointed in that. Robb Smith did nothing with the limited tools he had this year, and I will remain concerned with his efforts unless/until he shows that his consistently and rapidly failing defenses at Arkansas were the outlier in the data on his coaching ability, not the norm.

My biggest concern is that our highest ranked coach in recruiting is 80th. That may be better than any previous year, but that isn't going to get us to top 5 in the Big Ten, which is where we're going to need to be if PJ Fleck will be successful with his approach and what worked for him at Western Michigan.
 

Our 2014 lone returned is Rodney Smith (if I'm correct).

Our 2015 class is really weak (63rd and 13th Big Ten at time of signing and deteriorated from there).
Essentially it's Shenault, Delattiboudere, Huff and Huff (with Croft leaving).
It's like we did a Herschel Walker trade or something.

There just isn't a lot there to make you think our older leaders will make a huge impact next year.

2016 ranked 46th nationally and 8th in Big Ten. This would be the Kill / Claeys class. Many of those guys were key contributors this year so that's a sign of improvement to come as they get older.

2017 mostly redshirted. This is the Claeys / Fleck class. Coming off of a 9 win season, it's somewhat disappointing ranking 59th and 12th. The good thing being half that class was PJ's guys who should theoretically fit in his system.



PJ's future will have a lot to do with how well 2016 does when they are seniors and whether PJ recruits better replacements for them by the time they are seniors.
 

Minnesota went from nine wins to five.

Purdue went from three to six, including beating Gophers.

One program-coach trending up, the other not so much.

Apparently Brohm doesn't believe in "Year Zero" or that you have to tear everything down before you build.
 

Broncos181973 said:
Minnesota went from nine wins to five.

Purdue went from three to six, including beating Gophers.

One program-coach trending up, the other not so much.

Apparently Brohm doesn't believe in "Year Zero" or that you have to tear everything down before you build.
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Brohm came in to coach a football team, Fleck came in to build a program.
Brohm is working with the pieces he has, Fleck is installing a system for pieces he doesn't have yet.

That's the difference. Fleck could have won zero games this year, he wouldn't have cared other than dealing with the media.
He has a vision of Minnesota as a spread offense with a prevent defense and he's going to run our team that way regardless of the personnel we have.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Gophs play 5 teams with winning records. Lost all five games by a combined score of 47-150. Got curb stomped twice on national TV.
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Nobody is disputing that the offense was bad. It hasn't been great for a while now but this year was terrible. You clearly blame Fleck for that, I put that far more on the personnel they were working with then the coaches. Not a lot of great offenses out there with bad QBs. In slight defense of Rhoda and Croft they had next to nothing to work with at WR and on those times when they actually did make a good throw there was a decent chance the receiver was going to drop it.

The last two games were disappointing to be sure, never want to get shutout. The reality of those games is that even if we had scored we were not winning either of those games with our current offense against really good teams. Wouldn't have mattered who the coach was as we would have needed to throw to beat either of those teams and with stone handed receivers and below average passers getting minimal protection from the offensive line that just wasn't going to happen.

Fleck has to figure out how to do something that Kill/Claeys failed at, recruit above average WR and QBs. If he can the offense will turn around quickly in my opinion. This offense was going to struggle this season no matter who the coach was because the personnel was not good at most spots.
 

hello-world said:
Brohm came in to coach a football team, Fleck came in to build a program.
Brohm is working with the pieces he has, Fleck is installing a system for pieces he doesn't have yet.

That's the difference. Fleck could have won zero games this year, he wouldn't have cared other than dealing with the media.
He has a vision of Minnesota as a spread offense with a prevent defense and he's going to run our team that way regardless of the personnel we have.
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Correct IMO.

The culture change that keeps being referred to is not the obvious one year debacle scandal....it's changing from a losing culture to a winning culture. That is way bigger. The day gopher fans expect to win every game rather than expect to lose or fear losing even the ones gophers are favored, is the day the culture change has been accomplished.... it took whisky 10-15 years to get there and now their challenge is to stay there. It's MNs (Fleck's) job to unseat them...its going to take time.
 

Maverick said:
Correct IMO.

The culture change that keeps being referred to is not the obvious one year debacle scandal....it's changing from a losing culture to a winning culture. That is way bigger. The day gopher fans expect to win every game rather than expect to lose or fear losing even the ones gophers are favored, is the day the culture change has been accomplished.... it took whisky 10-15 years to get there and now their challenge is to stay there. It's MNs (Fleck's) job to unseat them...its going to take time.
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GWG he's talking to you. According to your posts, you weren't surprised by the losses to Maryland and Purdue. Consequently, you were expecting to lose. You need to buy in, row the boat, and start changing the culture.
 

On the field C off the field A+

First of all I would trade 2 or 3 years of crap for a legitimate shot at a B1G championship any day of the week. Claeys ceiling was 8 or 9 wins, Fleck's is 12-0 period. Coming in to 2017 the cupboard was pretty barren and a new culture was being put in place, add in a ton of injuries and new system being implemented 5 wins was not terrible. We don't lose a ton of players from this year and have one of the best recruiting classes ever coming in, next year will be better. Just give him some time with new facilities, players and new culture. I challenge all those nay sayers save your comments and we will compare in 2020.

RTB & Ski U Mah!!
 


JZsportswhiz said:
B
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:rolleyes:

JZsportswhiz said:
The program came along way even tho it hasn't shown on the field. I know some of the players having lived next door to many of them and the program was in chaos internally. The press didn't get the half of it.
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:rolleyes:

JZsportswhiz said:
The on field stuff will change in the coming years when we have classes ranked higher than 86
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We've never had a recruiting class even approaching 86th, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
 

SconnieGopher15 said:
On the field C off the field A+

First of all I would trade 2 or 3 years of crap for a legitimate shot at a B1G championship any day of the week. Claeys ceiling was 8 or 9 wins, Fleck's is 12-0 period. Coming in to 2017 the cupboard was pretty barren and a new culture was being put in place, add in a ton of injuries and new system being implemented 5 wins was not terrible. We don't lose a ton of players from this year and have one of the best recruiting classes ever coming in, next year will be better. Just give him some time with new facilities, players and new culture. I challenge all those nay sayers save your comments and we will compare in 2020.

RTB & Ski U Mah!!
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I say Claeys' ceiling was a national championship. The beautiful thing about hypotheticals is that you can say whatever ridiculous thing you want and neither of us can ever be proven right or wrong.
 

SconnieGopher15 said:
On the field C off the field A+

First of all I would trade 2 or 3 years of crap for a legitimate shot at a B1G championship any day of the week. Claeys ceiling was 8 or 9 wins, Fleck's is 12-0 period. Coming in to 2017 the cupboard was pretty barren and a new culture was being put in place, add in a ton of injuries and new system being implemented 5 wins was not terrible. We don't lose a ton of players from this year and have one of the best recruiting classes ever coming in, next year will be better. Just give him some time with new facilities, players and new culture. I challenge all those nay sayers save your comments and we will compare in 2020.

RTB & Ski U Mah!!
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So are you buying Season Tickets next year then?
 

SconnieGopher15 said:
On the field C off the field A+

First of all I would trade 2 or 3 years of crap for a legitimate shot at a B1G championship any day of the week. Claeys ceiling was 8 or 9 wins, Fleck's is 12-0 period. Coming in to 2017 the cupboard was pretty barren and a new culture was being put in place, add in a ton of injuries and new system being implemented 5 wins was not terrible. We don't lose a ton of players from this year and have one of the best recruiting classes ever coming in, next year will be better. Just give him some time with new facilities, players and new culture. I challenge all those nay sayers save your comments and we will compare in 2020.

RTB & Ski U Mah!!
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Apparently off the field items don't include recruiting or ticket sales.
 


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