What grade would you give Mark Coyle in hiring Bob Motzko?

[alchemy2u]

You really need to relax a little, below are a few responses:

I do not like this hire. Gophs missing the NCAA tourney by .001 the year the Frozen Four was here, and when 3 of their Conf opponents all made the Frozen Four, was the worst thing that could ever have happened imo, as there just didn't see like there was anyone out there who could do for Minnesota what it needs.
You have not listen to what many people have been trying to tell you, Missing the NCAA this year was not the reason Lucia is gone. It was his uninspiring style of play, underutilization of talent and lack of player development. The U should not accept mediocrity because you do not now of any better coaches.

But I'll wait to see. I hope I'm wrong? What Minnesota needs more than anything is an incredible coach. Because the NHL will continue to expand and rape and pillage college hockey's blue blood programs of all of their best talent and non-blue bloods are going to continue to have random great seasons so we need a guy who can figure out how to win consistently even when our best young talent gets taken.
I know that you are wrong. The NHL has poached players from the college ranks for decades. Remember that Motzko was a coach at the U during their last two NC and he has been the coach of the US national team the last two years (where he got more out of some of the U superstars than Lucia did).

I just can't see how hiring a guy with ABSOLUTELY NO NCAA TOURNEY success could be the best hire???
not true

And who did they lose to? Air Force? Are you kidding me? At least when we lost to Yale, they went on to win the Title. AF just got whooped the next round.
so, now your view is short term, I am sure some of your statistical analysis would show SCSU was the number one seed and the number one team in the country.

this just feels like the beginning of a long series of hires and fires, much like has gone on with the mens bb and football teams. And 15-20 years from now I'll be pointing out how dumb we were for letting Lucia go, the guy with probably the best ability(that he had to learn the hard way) to recruit in a way that minimizes the negative effort that the NHL's needs cause.
Motzko will only be a 5-10 year coach because of his age, but he will have success at the U. I don't think you will have the chance to gloat about your predictions in 15-20 years, but you could show some maturity and come back and next year and reflect on your ideas when the Gophers are in the NCAA's

Speaking of Lucia, I think the right program out there could hire him and find a truly gem of a coach. But I doubt tDon would want to go that route. But Blais did.
Lucia is done. He has had a successful career and is a legendary coach at the U. He wants to remain a "hero" in the state and spend time with his grandkids. Blais burned a few bridges at UND when he didn't get the Gopher job instead of Lucia. He was not ready to hang up the skates and went on to the Pro's and build the program in Nebraska

Honestly, SCSU should go after Lucia, lol.
Now that is just being spiteful, not a snowballs chance... SCSU needs another young and up and coming coach.

People may point at UMD as an example of a program that is winning consistently? Especially if UMD wins the title this year? Then watch the NHL start to turn it's sights on UMD and start to consider them as a new blue blood program. Then UMD will start to struggle just as UMn has.
It is not the easy. UMD has won titles in the past and they still don't get first pick of the Minnesota players. Just think about each years incoming rosters, every other school in Minnesota would most likely trade 70-90% of their incoming class for players that are coming into the U.

The NHL sees NCAA hockey as nothing but a feeder system. Things have changed so drastically over the past 10 or so years that Gopher fans need to adjust their expectations.
again, nothing new. There is more acceptance of US College player vs Canadians over the last 10 years, but the NHL will always buy what ever players that will help them win. That is the business model.

This year it was Vegas, next will be Seattle. The NHL is going to continue to need more and more talent to fill the rosters of all of it's teams. And Blue Blood programs will always be who they look to first.

Have you ever watched and NHL draft? The majority of the players come from Canadian juniors and Europe. The pressure is always there, but the NHL also has a couple levels of Pro hockey leagues similar to baseball.

 

[MennoSota]

I give Coyle 2 snakes out of 5 for the hire. [emoji216][emoji216]

 

[UncleSam'sMisguidedChild]

I give Coyle 2 snakes out of 5 for the hire. [emoji216][emoji216]

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm unfamiliar with the snake scale. Is 5 snakes the best, like a 5-star restaurant, or is 1 snake the best, such as the 3 stars of an NHL game where the best player that night receives 1 star?

 

[north45]

I give it a B. Bob is highly regarded in the world of college hockey. Did a great job coaching the USA world junior team. He could improve his grade to an A by making it to the Frozen Four in a year or two.

 

[MennoSota]

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm unfamiliar with the snake scale. Is 5 snakes the best, like a 5-star restaurant, or is 1 snake the best, such as the 3 stars of an NHL game where the best player that night receives 1 star?

Go with restaurant. [emoji56]

 

[UncleSam'sMisguidedChild]

Go with restaurant. [emoji56]

Figured, but thanks for clarifying. I'll give 3.5 snakes. He's a solid coach, name recognized, knows exactly what to do. He's also fairly old and doesn't have much tournament success as an NCAA head coach. My hopes are up a bit though after listening to him and doing some reading on what more enlightened hockey guys have to say.

 

[KillmeNow]

You really need to relax a little, below are a few responses:


Have you ever watched and NHL draft? The majority of the players come from Canadian juniors and Europe. The pressure is always there, but the NHL also has a couple levels of Pro hockey leagues similar to baseball.

Alchemy2u,

Ok, I was upset and venting, mostly because I know and have all the facts and stats to back up that the vast majority of Gopher fans, almost all of Lucia's critics, were NOT giving him the credit he was due, and were holding him to almost impossible standards that NO ONE ELSE in all of college hockey was meeting, either.

That said, I probably was wrong about this being a horrible hire. For one, I didn't know Motzko attended the U and tried out for the team twice. That changes a lot. That means the U was his first choice, and SCSU was NOT his first choice. That right there makes me warm up to him a great deal.

I wrote that post before I saw his press conference talking to the press about his feelings, why he took the job, why he left SCSU, etc., and the thing is, he said almost EXACTLY what I've been saying all year in here, about how things have changed drastically in college hockey the last 10-12 years. He always sounded like he was defending Lucia and explaining to the press why he may have struggled in comparison to before the last decade, which may be for his own benefit, because he may fear that he'll be looked upon poorly for the same lazy reasons people looked down on Lucia??? And all that he said about his connections and/or friendship with Lucia and Woog and Brooks, etc. made me convinced he has a good grasp of the situation and might be able to do what needs to be done.


So I can give you that much, that I probably was wrong about how Motzko will do and how good of a hire it was.



But you and so many other's opinion that Lucia underutilized players, and didn't develop them, seem to me to be lazy conclusions based on unrealistic expectations and/or a lack of understanding of the bigger picture, and assuming everything negative anyone said about Lucia was true without caring enough to check to see if it was true or not, just because you were disappointed with the results and it's easier to just blame the coach then accept the fact that the real problem is something coming from outside of the program, that is almost unfixable.

Regarding player development, that would require a longer discussion. Almost ALL of Lucia's players developed while here, the vast majority from beginning of 1st year to end, then from year one to year two, a lot of them from year 2 to year 3 as well, and a few from year 3 to year 4. The reasons for the leveling off of some of the older players, doesn't have to be something Lucia did wrong.


And your dismissing the NHL factor as if its been going on for decades and every school has to deal with it, yet the vast majority of players drafted come from Canadian juniors and Europe, sounds to me like you don't hardly have a clue what you are talking about.


Around 33% of the NHL comes out of NCAA Hockey now. Almost 2.5 % of the players that have scored a point in the NHL this year are former Gophers.


But the poaching of NCAA Blue Blood programs has NOT been going on for decades, in fact it was very rare that a college player would end up going to the NHL before 1980. After 1980 there was a little surge in the #s of college players going to the NHL, but those numbers declined again by the 90s. Oh, of course there were still a few here and there that made the jump, but nothing even close to what's been going on lately. It wasn't until the late 90s that the NHL started looking more seriously at college hockey programs as a legitimate training grounds for future NHLers. First they looked to Michigan after they dominated the late 90s, and UND as well, and both UND and more so Michigan struggled after their little runs, until recently for both of them, then the Gophers came along and won 2 titles, and then struggled until 2012-14, and then struggled again since, then Denver won 2 titles and then they struggled until just recently. Both Wisconsin and MSU have struggled a great deal since they each won a title.




If you think the NHL poaching UMn isn't unique to UMn, then how come UMn has as many players in the NHL as the other 4 Minnesota based teams have in the NHL COMBINED???

And not only does UMn have as many in the NHL as all 4 of those other Minnesota based schools combined, but those former Gophers are outscoring them, for sure by 2 to 1, and it's possible if you only look at the players who left college early, that its 3 to 1.


566 to 220.

558 if you only count those players who left school early. Not sure about the players from the other 4 schools?


566 > 220


That's a HUGE difference.


Kessel and Wheeler score more points than all of the SCSU and UMD Alums combined have scored.

Bjugstad and Goligoski score more points than all of the Mankato and Bemidji Alums combined have scored.



If you combined all of the players who played college hockey in the state of Minnesota that are now playing in the NHL together, and ranked them by points scored, former Gophers would make up the Top 9 spots. Our #10, has been injured otherwise it might be the entire Top 10?


And our top 13 scorers, for sure, and 15 out of 20 were guys who left school early and account for all but 8 of the 566 points scored by former Gophers. How many of the 20 guys that scored in the NHL from the other 4 Minnesota based schools were guys who left early?

 

[alchemy2u]

Alchemy2u,

Ok, I was upset and venting, mostly because I know and have all the facts and stats to back up that the vast majority of Gopher fans, almost all of Lucia's critics, were NOT giving him the credit he was due, and were holding him to almost impossible standards that NO ONE ELSE in all of college hockey was meeting, either.

That said, I probably was wrong about this being a horrible hire. For one, I didn't know Motzko attended the U and tried out for the team twice. That changes a lot. That means the U was his first choice, and SCSU was NOT his first choice. That right there makes me warm up to him a great deal.

I wrote that post before I saw his press conference talking to the press about his feelings, why he took the job, why he left SCSU, etc., and the thing is, he said almost EXACTLY what I've been saying all year in here, about how things have changed drastically in college hockey the last 10-12 years. He always sounded like he was defending Lucia and explaining to the press why he may have struggled in comparison to before the last decade, which may be for his own benefit, because he may fear that he'll be looked upon poorly for the same lazy reasons people looked down on Lucia??? And all that he said about his connections and/or friendship with Lucia and Woog and Brooks, etc. made me convinced he has a good grasp of the situation and might be able to do what needs to be done.


So I can give you that much, that I probably was wrong about how Motzko will do and how good of a hire it was.



But you and so many other's opinion that Lucia underutilized players, and didn't develop them, seem to me to be lazy conclusions based on unrealistic expectations and/or a lack of understanding of the bigger picture, and assuming everything negative anyone said about Lucia was true without caring enough to check to see if it was true or not, just because you were disappointed with the results and it's easier to just blame the coach then accept the fact that the real problem is something coming from outside of the program, that is almost unfixable.

Regarding player development, that would require a longer discussion. Almost ALL of Lucia's players developed while here, the vast majority from beginning of 1st year to end, then from year one to year two, a lot of them from year 2 to year 3 as well, and a few from year 3 to year 4. The reasons for the leveling off of some of the older players, doesn't have to be something Lucia did wrong.


And your dismissing the NHL factor as if its been going on for decades and every school has to deal with it, yet the vast majority of players drafted come from Canadian juniors and Europe, sounds to me like you don't hardly have a clue what you are talking about.


Around 33% of the NHL comes out of NCAA Hockey now. Almost 2.5 % of the players that have scored a point in the NHL this year are former Gophers.


But the poaching of NCAA Blue Blood programs has NOT been going on for decades, in fact it was very rare that a college player would end up going to the NHL before 1980. After 1980 there was a little surge in the #s of college players going to the NHL, but those numbers declined again by the 90s. Oh, of course there were still a few here and there that made the jump, but nothing even close to what's been going on lately. It wasn't until the late 90s that the NHL started looking more seriously at college hockey programs as a legitimate training grounds for future NHLers. First they looked to Michigan after they dominated the late 90s, and UND as well, and both UND and more so Michigan struggled after their little runs, until recently for both of them, then the Gophers came along and won 2 titles, and then struggled until 2012-14, and then struggled again since, then Denver won 2 titles and then they struggled until just recently. Both Wisconsin and MSU have struggled a great deal since they each won a title.




If you think the NHL poaching UMn isn't unique to UMn, then how come UMn has as many players in the NHL as the other 4 Minnesota based teams have in the NHL COMBINED???

And not only does UMn have as many in the NHL as all 4 of those other Minnesota based schools combined, but those former Gophers are outscoring them, for sure by 2 to 1, and it's possible if you only look at the players who left college early, that its 3 to 1.


566 to 220.

558 if you only count those players who left school early. Not sure about the players from the other 4 schools?


566 > 220


That's a HUGE difference.


Kessel and Wheeler score more points than all of the SCSU and UMD Alums combined have scored.

Bjugstad and Goligoski score more points than all of the Mankato and Bemidji Alums combined have scored.



If you combined all of the players who played college hockey in the state of Minnesota that are now playing in the NHL together, and ranked them by points scored, former Gophers would make up the Top 9 spots. Our #10, has been injured otherwise it might be the entire Top 10?


And our top 13 scorers, for sure, and 15 out of 20 were guys who left school early and account for all but 8 of the 566 points scored by former Gophers. How many of the 20 guys that scored in the NHL from the other 4 Minnesota based schools were guys who left early?

You started out with a gracious acknowledgment that you didn’t know anything about Motzko, but then you went off the rails with wild assumptions. My impression of Lucia’s coaching is firsthand from being a season ticket holder. I would assume it is safe to say that I have watched Gopher hockey for more years than you have been breathing. Combine that with my dozen years of coaching hockey and I can say my observations are not based upon what other people say. It is simple, if a guy behind you beats you to the loose puck then you are lazy. It is like rebounding in basketball, it is all effort.
Do you realize the irony in your discussion of Gophers in the NHL? If the U has as many NHL alumni as the other 4 MN schools combined, then the reason that they have been the 3rd or 4th best team in the state can’t be lack of talent. And if you consistently have that much more talent and don’t win, then you are under achievers and/or poorly coached.
Also, 66% non NCAA is a majority. The strong NHL bias for Canadian players has gradually softened over the last 20 years and with that more US college players are getting a chance. Step back and look at what the data is actually telling you, don’t bend it to support your hypothesis.


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[KillmeNow]

You started out with a gracious acknowledgment that you didn’t know anything about Motzko, but then you went off the rails with wild assumptions. My impression of Lucia’s coaching is firsthand from being a season ticket holder. I would assume it is safe to say that I have watched Gopher hockey for more years than you have been breathing. Combine that with my dozen years of coaching hockey and I can say my observations are not based upon what other people say. It is simple, if a guy behind you beats you to the loose puck then you are lazy. It is like rebounding in basketball, it is all effort.
Do you realize the irony in your discussion of Gophers in the NHL? If the U has as many NHL alumni as the other 4 MN schools combined, then the reason that they have been the 3rd or 4th best team in the state can’t be lack of talent. And if you consistently have that much more talent and don’t win, then you are under achievers and/or poorly coached.
Also, 66% non NCAA is a majority. The strong NHL bias for Canadian players has gradually softened over the last 20 years and with that more US college players are getting a chance. Step back and look at what the data is actually telling you, don’t bend it to support your hypothesis.


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Don't lie about what I said ashhole! I said I didn't know Motzko tried out for the Gophers. I know all about his coaching here and SCSU and that those were not his only stops. And you claim you have watched Gopher hockey longer than I've been alive? So you are old & senile? And what would what happened in the 70s or 80s have to do with anything going on for the last 20-30 years, much less back in the 50s or 60s when apparently you started watching?



Maybe your bias against Lucia prevents you from seeing that those players in the NHL ALL LEFT EARLY, or all the REALLY good ones.

Can those other 4 schools make the same claim?


So of course NHL GMs who cared 1000 times more about their own interests than about the interests of UMn hockey, lied to UMn players about being worried that Lucia would hurt their development.

And IF anything would hurt their development, it would be COLLEGE HOCKEY as a whole. It had nothing to do with Lucia personally.

Lucia was doing SO WELL in recruiting, that guys like Vanek, Kessel, etc., their development would have been hurt simply because they were SO GOOD, and Lucia may have had something to do with that.

Wheeler spent 3 years at the U, not 1 or 2 like others, and look where he is now? He was an All-Star this year, and is #1 in Assists in the NHL.

Okposo on the other hand left half way through his 2nd year, and as I heard it, because a GM told him Lucia would hurt his development.


So lets compare them. Okposo scored just 5 points that season. His 2nd season he scored 39. Wheeler on the other hand, scored 45 his first season.

Maybe you want to argue that what would have been Okposo's Senior season he had 52? So a little better than 45, but with an NHL coach working on his development and having an 82 game season, plus the games the season before to work with, I might think he'd do better than 7 pts more than Wheeler?

And with a part of a season head start, Okposo has scored a grant total of 456 points, to Wheeler's 601.

601 > 456


Okposo's best season has been a 69 pt performance. Wheeler had 69 that same season, but Wheeler's also had seasons of 74, 78 & 87 so far this ssn.

87 - 78 - 74 - 69 - 64 - 61 - 46 - 44 - 41 - 38 for Wheeler
69 - 64 - 52 - 51 - 45 - 45 - 42 - 39 - 24 - 20 for Okposo and his 5 pts in 08.


So there has been ONCE in the last 10 years that Okposo outperformed Wheeler and once that they matched each other.


Granted Wheeler's played more games, and I remember Okposo struggling with injuries on more than one occasion, but he's a year younger than Wheeler, right, and he's only ONCE in a decade outperformed Wheeler who had the audacity to stick around under Lucia's tutelage for 3 years, compared to Okposo's abandoning his team half way through his 2nd season.

And Okposo's career plus minus is a -99, while Wheeler's is a +96.


Wheeler has had 7 more Game winning goals(33 to 26) and Wheeler has had 11 short handed goals in his career and Okposo has had NONE.


And I have a few other examples that seem to show the players that stuck around for 3 years, are doing better in the NHL than the guys who left after 1 season, with the obvious exception of Kessel.


But that doesn't seem to be the case with the other 4 Minnesota teams, their players sticking around for longer in college and helping their teams beat the Gophers, while our players left early, did not help them to more productive NHL careers.

And you are also ignoring the Super Bowl Factor, as those 4 teams always looked at their games vs UMn as their Super Bowl, because between them, outside of UMD, none of them do diddly come March. There are 43 NCAA programs with a better winning percentage in the tourney than SCSU. BSU has one trip to the FF in their history? Has Mankato ever gotten there? Mankato and BSU play little league schedules compared to the schedules UMn plays, outside of those first 2 years of the B1G, which hurt us, both in not even making the tourney the one year, and not being prepared for it the next. But we didn't know that going in.


What happened to Lucia, was that he did incredibly well recruiting, arguably too good, because Vanek left after 2, Okposo after 1.5, Kessel, Johnson & Leddy after 1, as well as another guy who doesn't seem to have done anything in the NHL, so he should count against the leave after 1 year guys, but I can't remember his name off hand? So he tried adjusting who he targeted and the result was the run from 12-14, which was really hurt by running into Yale in the 1st round, that was just bad luck, and running into a really old and mature and good Union team. Had we gotten to the FF before meeting Yale, and had we beat Union, Lucia might still have his job, as he could have been argued to be the #2 coach in the NCAA the last 7 years, maybe the last 10?

What has happened since then? Well, a move to the B1G, and the fans abandoning the team, and even if that can be blamed by the U for raising ticket prices, that's hardly Lucia's fault. And it can be tough to pour your heart onto the ice when the fans don't seem to give a sh1t.


If you listen to Motzko's presser, he said the same thing I've been talking about all season. He has the same opinion of Lucia as I do!!



And yes, 66% is a majority, but DUH, that 66% doesn't come from the same Hemisphere, much less league. Give me a frigging break. Divide that 66% up by Hemisphere or Continent/Country, and what percentage comes from Asia(Russia and does Latvia, Lithuania, etc. count as asia or Europe?) and what percentage comes from Europe? Then Canada of course.

So say 4 groups, Asia, Europe, Canada & US Collegiate, sure US Collegiate may not be a bigger percentage than Canada, but 33% is still a nice chunk as has to be larger than Asia and Europe, and its been growing every year with more and more Americans playing hockey.

 

[alchemy2u]

Don't lie about what I said ashhole! I said I didn't know Motzko tried out for the Gophers. I know all about his coaching here and SCSU and that those were not his only stops. And you claim you have watched Gopher hockey longer than I've been alive? So you are old & senile? And what would what happened in the 70s or 80s have to do with anything going on for the last 20-30 years, much less back in the 50s or 60s when apparently you started watching?



Maybe your bias against Lucia prevents you from seeing that those players in the NHL ALL LEFT EARLY, or all the REALLY good ones.

Can those other 4 schools make the same claim?


So of course NHL GMs who cared 1000 times more about their own interests than about the interests of UMn hockey, lied to UMn players about being worried that Lucia would hurt their development.

And IF anything would hurt their development, it would be COLLEGE HOCKEY as a whole. It had nothing to do with Lucia personally.

Lucia was doing SO WELL in recruiting, that guys like Vanek, Kessel, etc., their development would have been hurt simply because they were SO GOOD, and Lucia may have had something to do with that.

Wheeler spent 3 years at the U, not 1 or 2 like others, and look where he is now? He was an All-Star this year, and is #1 in Assists in the NHL.

Okposo on the other hand left half way through his 2nd year, and as I heard it, because a GM told him Lucia would hurt his development.


So lets compare them. Okposo scored just 5 points that season. His 2nd season he scored 39. Wheeler on the other hand, scored 45 his first season.

Maybe you want to argue that what would have been Okposo's Senior season he had 52? So a little better than 45, but with an NHL coach working on his development and having an 82 game season, plus the games the season before to work with, I might think he'd do better than 7 pts more than Wheeler?

And with a part of a season head start, Okposo has scored a grant total of 456 points, to Wheeler's 601.

601 > 456


Okposo's best season has been a 69 pt performance. Wheeler had 69 that same season, but Wheeler's also had seasons of 74, 78 & 87 so far this ssn.

87 - 78 - 74 - 69 - 64 - 61 - 46 - 44 - 41 - 38 for Wheeler
69 - 64 - 52 - 51 - 45 - 45 - 42 - 39 - 24 - 20 for Okposo and his 5 pts in 08.


So there has been ONCE in the last 10 years that Okposo outperformed Wheeler and once that they matched each other.


Granted Wheeler's played more games, and I remember Okposo struggling with injuries on more than one occasion, but he's a year younger than Wheeler, right, and he's only ONCE in a decade outperformed Wheeler who had the audacity to stick around under Lucia's tutelage for 3 years, compared to Okposo's abandoning his team half way through his 2nd season.

And Okposo's career plus minus is a -99, while Wheeler's is a +96.


Wheeler has had 7 more Game winning goals(33 to 26) and Wheeler has had 11 short handed goals in his career and Okposo has had NONE.


And I have a few other examples that seem to show the players that stuck around for 3 years, are doing better in the NHL than the guys who left after 1 season, with the obvious exception of Kessel.


But that doesn't seem to be the case with the other 4 Minnesota teams, their players sticking around for longer in college and helping their teams beat the Gophers, while our players left early, did not help them to more productive NHL careers.

And you are also ignoring the Super Bowl Factor, as those 4 teams always looked at their games vs UMn as their Super Bowl, because between them, outside of UMD, none of them do diddly come March. There are 43 NCAA programs with a better winning percentage in the tourney than SCSU. BSU has one trip to the FF in their history? Has Mankato ever gotten there? Mankato and BSU play little league schedules compared to the schedules UMn plays, outside of those first 2 years of the B1G, which hurt us, both in not even making the tourney the one year, and not being prepared for it the next. But we didn't know that going in.


What happened to Lucia, was that he did incredibly well recruiting, arguably too good, because Vanek left after 2, Okposo after 1.5, Kessel, Johnson & Leddy after 1, as well as another guy who doesn't seem to have done anything in the NHL, so he should count against the leave after 1 year guys, but I can't remember his name off hand? So he tried adjusting who he targeted and the result was the run from 12-14, which was really hurt by running into Yale in the 1st round, that was just bad luck, and running into a really old and mature and good Union team. Had we gotten to the FF before meeting Yale, and had we beat Union, Lucia might still have his job, as he could have been argued to be the #2 coach in the NCAA the last 7 years, maybe the last 10?

What has happened since then? Well, a move to the B1G, and the fans abandoning the team, and even if that can be blamed by the U for raising ticket prices, that's hardly Lucia's fault. And it can be tough to pour your heart onto the ice when the fans don't seem to give a sh1t.


If you listen to Motzko's presser, he said the same thing I've been talking about all season. He has the same opinion of Lucia as I do!!



And yes, 66% is a majority, but DUH, that 66% doesn't come from the same Hemisphere, much less league. Give me a frigging break. Divide that 66% up by Hemisphere or Continent/Country, and what percentage comes from Asia(Russia and does Latvia, Lithuania, etc. count as asia or Europe?) and what percentage comes from Europe? Then Canada of course.

So say 4 groups, Asia, Europe, Canada & US Collegiate, sure US Collegiate may not be a bigger percentage than Canada, but 33% is still a nice chunk as has to be larger than Asia and Europe, and its been growing every year with more and more Americans playing hockey.

Great job of showing your maturity and class.
So how long do you think coach Cal would last at Kentucky if he consistently loss to Western Kentucky and never made it to the sweet sixteen? But wait, look at all the players that “he” puts into the NBA, he must be an excellent recruiter and developer of players. He can’t help it that the NBA poaches all his player so early..... blah, blah, blah...(insert 5 paragraphs of meaningless and out of context data because I think numbers will make up for what I don’t understand about how to play the game).... add some other personal attacks, name calling... now I can pat myself on the back because I am so smart.... wait, why do most of the other fans disagree with my take?


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[KillmeNow]

Great job of showing your maturity and class.
So how long do you think coach Cal would last at Kentucky if he consistently loss to Western Kentucky and never made it to the sweet sixteen? But wait, look at all the players that “he” puts into the NBA, he must be an excellent recruiter and developer of players. He can’t help it that the NBA poaches all his player so early..... blah, blah, blah...(insert 5 paragraphs of meaningless and out of context data because I think numbers will make up for what I don’t understand about how to play the game).... add some other personal attacks, name calling... now I can pat myself on the back because I am so smart.... wait, why do most of the other fans disagree with my take?


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Maturity and class? That is what lying about what I said is considered by you? Btw, how old are you?



And Kentucky? Calipari? Are you kidding me? That's bb, much different than hockey. Why don't you give me the Hockey equivalent of Calipari who PURPOSELY goes after NBA bound after 1 season players. And how many Natl titles has he won with this technique? Just 1.


And not a lot of COLLEGE sports fans outside of Kentucky like the UK way, and only a small percentage of that is jealousy.

What connection is made with the players? Players who, at that point, are just USING you, for one and only one reason, to get to the next level.

So go ahead, hold up the Calipari way, show me what kind of person you are. You know why Calipari had to leave a couple of his prior jobs, right?


OMG, here, at Minnesota, you bring up a cheating sh1t like Calipari, who gets away with what he does because he's in a state that prides itself in being as backwards as any in the nation. Seriously??? What do you think of when you think of Kentucky? cbb, Nascar, moonshine, no teeth, incest. What else?





And why do most of the other fans disagree with my take?


Because they are lazy and don't look beyond their simplistic uneducated feelings?

I'm not saying Lucia was the greatest hockey mind ever known. There doesn't seem to be a lot of those out there?



I mean, which coach, that is still coaching, has more than 2 FFs in the last 7 years?


Jerry York. That's it. And he's now missed 2 straight NCAA tournaments.



Combine Lucia's 2 Frozen Four trips with all of the players he sends to the NHL before their eligibility is up that are DOMINATING the NHL, and Lucia could very arguably have done more for his college hockey team/program than anyone else in the nation, after Jerry York.


The mission of any college sports program is to give to the STUDENTS first and foremost. I know some of you dumbsh1t fans think college sports exists to service the needs and wants of the fans, but that's not reality. The fans only matter as far as they funnel money into the program to allow the University to continue servicing it's students.


Fans think winning is all that matters, Universities thing that producing high quality graduates is the primary function. Supplying the NHL with 2.5% of its productive players is something the other 4 Minnesota based schools struggle to do.



Hey, our new coach agrees with me! Listen to her presser, the guy says the EXACT same thing that I've been saying all year, that the NHL has been raping and pillaging blue blood programs, and the last 10 years WAY more non-blue blood programs have been making the FF and getting to the Title game and have won it.

08-17 vs 1998-07 non-blue bloods
21 > 4 Frozen fours
6 > 0 Title game Appearances
4 > 0 Titles


There is a direct correlation, and just because LAZY Gopher fans think the hockey world should just bow to UMn's greatness, doesn't mean the rest of the college hockey world agrees.

Wake up and smell the coffee.


So many of you basically abandoned the team after the move to the B1G, and you wonder why the players don't give 110%? Why should they? You fans don't deserve their killing themselves to satisfy your WAY TOO HIGH of expectations.


You don't show them love for coming here, it's like you think you are Gods and the players should feel privileged to serve you, and if they don't give you good enough offerings to start, then you will not bless them. Well, sorry to say this Gopher fans, but the world has changed, they can go to lots of other schools and be shown love from the fans, and not be put down and criticized for not meeting your unrealistic expectations.

Honestly, I have hope that Motzko can turn things around, partly because I see a little Herb Brooks in him, in that he has unfinished business here at the U, and I see and believe that he thinks much like I do, and understands the situation before him and he recognizes Lucia as being better than Gopher fans have given him credit for.

But another part of me thinks that the Gopher Hockey program is heading right where the Gopher football program went, down, down, and down.



You, the lazy spoiled arsehole fans are part of the problem.

 

[Otis]

Killmenow is arguing Alchemy's point about Lucia not being able to get maximum performance from his players.

If Wheeler and others are doing so amazing in the NHL then why don't we have any trophies from their era? 2003-4 is quite awhile ago. Performance in the NHL and your stats show we had VERY good players and still managed to have underwhelming seasons. If the guys leaving the U this year excel in the NHL it will be even more proof that Lucia couldn't coach them up or light a fire under them.

For these reasons, I give Coyle an "F" for hiring Motzko. Mainly because he should have FIRED Lucia years ago, but also because he could have gone for a young coach with MN connections and instead went with another OLD coach who was cut by Brad Buetow twice. Of course we fired Buetow who won multiple Championships at Denver and hired "Zero Championships Wooger". Maybe Brad had a pretty good idea of Motzko's ability on the ice. Typical U leader went for a safe hire instead of a home run!

As for all the success of former U players, didn't Phil Kessel also play for the U? Seems to me he is also pretty special and failed to win the NCAA tournament as well.

 

[alchemy2u]

Killmenow is arguing Alchemy's point about Lucia not being able to get maximum performance from his players.

If Wheeler and others are doing so amazing in the NHL then why don't we have any trophies from their era? 2003-4 is quite awhile ago. Performance in the NHL and your stats show we had VERY good players and still managed to have underwhelming seasons. If the guys leaving the U this year excel in the NHL it will be even more proof that Lucia couldn't coach them up or light a fire under them.

For these reasons, I give Coyle an "F" for hiring Motzko. Mainly because he should have FIRED Lucia years ago, but also because he could have gone for a young coach with MN connections and instead went with another OLD coach who was cut by Brad Buetow twice. Of course we fired Buetow who won multiple Championships at Denver and hired "Zero Championships Wooger". Maybe Brad had a pretty good idea of Motzko's ability on the ice. Typical U leader went for a safe hire instead of a home run!

As for all the success of former U players, didn't Phil Kessel also play for the U? Seems to me he is also pretty special and failed to win the NCAA tournament as well.

Exactly, he is too blinded by his anger and smart aleck remarks too see the real conclusion from all of the data he throws out. I see your point on the excitement of bringing in new blood with a young coach, but we are at a turning point with the hockey program at the U. It has been in decline recently because of lack of results and insane ticket pricing. Many season ticket holders have left and the true hockey fans are drifting away. At this point I like the hiring of Motzko because he can stop the bleeding. He has shown that he can develop players, install a hustling work effort and knows the U very well. We can hire a younger coach in 5 years or so when Motzko has the program back on the upswing. If we would have hired a young coach and they failed, it could have ended the reputation of the U as a blue blood hockey program. The U has the luxury in hockey of being able to poach most any coach they want, we don't need to have a coach learn on the job. Let Grant learn the ropes for a few more years before we poach him.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Killmenow is arguing Alchemy's point about Lucia not being able to get maximum performance from his players.

If Wheeler and others are doing so amazing in the NHL then why don't we have any trophies from their era? 2003-4 is quite awhile ago. Performance in the NHL and your stats show we had VERY good players and still managed to have underwhelming seasons. If the guys leaving the U this year excel in the NHL it will be even more proof that Lucia couldn't coach them up or light a fire under them.

For these reasons, I give Coyle an "F" for hiring Motzko. Mainly because he should have FIRED Lucia years ago, but also because he could have gone for a young coach with MN connections and instead went with another OLD coach who was cut by Brad Buetow twice. Of course we fired Buetow who won multiple Championships at Denver and hired "Zero Championships Wooger". Maybe Brad had a pretty good idea of Motzko's ability on the ice. Typical U leader went for a safe hire instead of a home run!

As for all the success of former U players, didn't Phil Kessel also play for the U? Seems to me he is also pretty special and failed to win the NCAA tournament as well.

There's middle ground. 2011/12 - 2014/15 stretch averaged 26+ wins a season, NCAA birth all four years, two Frozen Four appearances and one NCAA runner up. The guy was very successful over his tenure...I think he just lost a lot of the fire in the last 3 years. 30 years as a D1 HC and that just might happen.

When was Coyle hired...?

 

[Tucker]

Far be it from me to give advice, but I think KillmeNow would be a lot easier to follow and understand if his posts were longer.

 

[KillmeNow]

Far be it from me to give advice, but I think KillmeNow would be a lot easier to follow and understand if his posts were longer.

lol, that one made me smile. I got no problem with people poking fun of me, and enjoy laughing at myself once in a while.

That being said, my points are valid. I do my research, I know what I'm talking about.

Was it time for Lucia to go? Maybe it was. But so many talk about how he lost a lot of the fire the last 3 years? Could that be in part because the fans, in protest to the move to the B1G and I guess rising ticket prices, basically abandoned Lucia and the team? I think so! Which would in of its own maybe be acceptable, but not when they then turn and blame Lucia for everything and crap on him constantly when he didn't deserve it. And his age I'm sure had something to do with it. And maybe frustration with how hard it was to battle not just the non-blue bloods whose rosters were older and not plundered by the NHL, but the NHL who went around criticizing him to his players to get those players to leave earlier than maybe they should have? And then the fans who blamed him for things he couldn't control. My guess is that he loves the U and the Gophers and will not come out and admit it, but he probably feels very unappreciated by the fans. Gopher fans are DELUSIONAL if they think a new coach is going to magically fix things. He may have more fire in his belly and maybe he's a better coach? So things could get better. But they weren't as bad as simple minded people like to make them out to be.

 

[KillmeNow]

If Wheeler and others are doing so amazing in the NHL then why don't we have any trophies from their era? 2003-4 is quite awhile ago. Performance in the NHL and your stats show we had VERY good players and still managed to have underwhelming seasons.

As for all the success of former U players, didn't Phil Kessel also play for the U? Seems to me he is also pretty special and failed to win the NCAA tournament as well.

Dude, Wheeler was like the ONLY ONE who stuck around for 3 years.

Vanek left after 2, and DID help us to a Title.

Okposo left after 1 basically. He contributed as much his 2nd season as Lynch did to his 2nd season on the bb team. Yeah, neither helped the team out at all.

Leddy left after 1.

Johnson left after 1.

Another player I can't remember his name partly because he didn't do squat in the NHL, left after 1.

And DUH, of course Kessel is kicking tail, but he also left after just one season, too.


And those guys didn't all play together, some of them did, but not many.

All off the top of my head,

Vanek left before Kessel & Wheeler showed up. Thing is, Kessel didn't go right to the NHL, his first season away from the Gophers was spent in the minors I believe?

If my memory serves me right, Kessel & Wheeler played together for that one year Kessel was there, so both were just frosh.
And they won the WCHA Title that year, Not exactly a horrible season. They lost to Holy Cross in OT in the 1st round. Gotta remember a team is made up of more than one superstar, especially when that star is just a freshman. We've since seen SCSU lose just as embarrassingly, as well as Virginia in the Cbb tourney. Things like that happen. Is Virginia's coach not a successful coach because of that one game's result? He's never even gotten UVA to the Final Four. But most would consider him a great coach.


Kessel left and then Okposo & Johnson showed up, so Okposo & Johnson, just Frosh, and Wheeler the Soph, won BOTH the WCHA Regular season Title & The WCHA Conf Tourney Title and got to the 2nd round and lost to #6 ranked UND in OT. Not a horrible year. I remember being very upset to see us paired with UND in the Regional that year. I swear Eastern people with too much influence in chk, after the 4 WCHA teams in the FF thing, have gone out of their way to try to pair up the best western teams to take each other out limiting how many make the FF since then.


then Johnson leaves and essentially after screwing his coach out of an open spot for someone else, Okposo left half way through the year, leaving Wheeler by himself to eek the team into the NCAA tourney, just barely where they got beat easily by BC, who went on to win the Title I believe?

Then Wheeler leaves.


Then they struggle for the next 3 years. Leddy shows up for that first season, barely contributes and then leaves.


I believe this is around when Lucia chose to change up his recruiting some, going after guys who were maybe smaller, yet still good, who the NHL wouldn't want as much, but who could still play well. Well, those types do not always pan out, and the younger and younger guys Lucia was having to go after also don't always pan out the way you want them too.


But his new tactic towards recruiting paid off in 2012-2015. Like PMWinSTP stated, 4 straight tourney appearances, 2 FFs, a title game appearance. 4 straight Conf Reg Season Titles, 2 of those being WCHA titles, and a Conf Tourney title in 2015, which came to show didn't mean much.

It was just bad luck to run into Yale in the 1st round the way we did, and its not like they rolled over us, either. So Lucia put together a group that essentially should have been a 3 time FF team.

Those guys didn't suffer a single player leaving after 1 year, some left after 3, and all of those guys are doing well in the NHL, arguably better than the guys who left after 1 year, with the exception of Kessel.


And looking at the last 7 seasons, only one coach has gotten his team to more FFs than Don did. That is Jerry York.


So Don made adjustments that WORKED. He was a great coach and we should feel lucky we had him.


Denver missed something like 10 straight FFs after their back to back titles. I can show evidence that ALL the blue bloods suffered through droughts in the last 15-20 years.



So what explains the last 3-4 seasons? Well, the move to, at the time, a weaker B1G conf hurt the team, which wasn't Lucia's fault btw, and not just on the ice, when the fans started abandoning the team because of the move(maybe the players found it harder to inspire themselves to give 100% on the ice with no fan support, which is not all Lucia's fault) and higher ticket prices(again not Lucia's fault), well, coach is getting older(not his fault), harder to find motivation(partially his fault), fans are whining like little spoiled b1tches and talking crap about you all the time(only partially his fault), is it any wonder the team has suffered some?

And its so easy for lazy ignorant fans to blame it ALL on the coach. They can't handle taking on any of the responsibility, and they deserve SOME, I mean, I understand they are not the coach or the players, but die hard fans who love you NO MATTER WHAT can help inspire players to rise up and give 110%, OR accepting the simple fact that the times have been a changing. The days of the blue bloods reigning over college hockey are GONE.

FIVE TIMES AS MANY non-blue bloods made the FF from 2008-2017 than the 10 years prior to that.
SIX TIMES AS MANY non-blue bloods made the Title game from 08-17 than the 10 yrs prior to that.
FOUR TIMES AS MANY non-blue bloods won NCAA Titles from 2008-17 than the 10 years prior to that.

 

[KillmeNow]

FIVE TIMES AS MANY non-blue bloods made the FF from 2008-2017 than the 10 years prior to that.
SIX TIMES AS MANY non-blue bloods made the Title game from 08-17 than the 10 yrs prior to that.
FOUR TIMES AS MANY non-blue bloods won NCAA Titles from 2008-17 than the 10 years prior to that.

nm

 

[KillmeNow]

Just ONE COACH got to more FFs in the last 7 years than Lucia.

 

[Otis]

Was it time for Lucia to go? Maybe it was. But so many talk about how he lost a lot of the fire the last 3 years? Could that be in part because the fans, in protest to the move to the B1G and I guess rising ticket prices, basically abandoned Lucia and the team? I think so! Which would in of its own maybe be acceptable, but not when they then turn and blame Lucia for everything and crap on him constantly when he didn't deserve it. And his age I'm sure had something to do with it. And maybe frustration with how hard it was to battle not just the non-blue bloods whose rosters were older and not plundered by the NHL, but the NHL who went around criticizing him to his players to get those players to leave earlier than maybe they should have? And then the fans who blamed him for things he couldn't control. My guess is that he loves the U and the Gophers and will not come out and admit it, but he probably feels very unappreciated by the fans. Gopher fans are DELUSIONAL if they think a new coach is going to magically fix things. He may have more fire in his belly and maybe he's a better coach? So things could get better. But they weren't as bad as simple minded people like to make them out to be.

The B1G switch totally blew. We lost those great rivalries with UMD and UND. Plus the WCHA was a rock solid hockey conference beyond those teams.

Ticket prices are highest in hockey among pro sports, but I don't think that necessarily translates to college. They need to cut prices back and get more student tickets sold. Students are the fans who are the loudest and most enthusiastic.

 

[KillmeNow]

The B1G switch totally blew. We lost those great rivalries with UMD and UND. Plus the WCHA was a rock solid hockey conference beyond those teams.

Ticket prices are highest in hockey among pro sports, but I don't think that necessarily translates to college. They need to cut prices back and get more student tickets sold. Students are the fans who are the loudest and most enthusiastic.

So Otis, I don't think you do, but I need to ask for clarification, do you think those 2 things are Lucia's fault?

 

[Otis]

No, but the lack of consistent effort is.

I blame the University Athletic Department leaders for assuming a hockey hungry fan-base could be mined for money to support non-revenue producing sports which they are so proud of! They took a good thing and made it bad. How many schools make money past Football and Basketball? We have a revenue stream other schools are envious of. And now that we joined the B1G and gave that revenue stream to schools with well run athletic departments (Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Notre Dame) we have lost yet another competitive advantage over true blue-blood schools where sports matter more than in the Gopher state school!

Three B1G schools in the Frozen Four, and Goldy doesn't skate with any of them. Nice job guys!