What grade do you give Ben Johnson for his first year?

What grade do you give Ben Johnson for his first year?

  • A

    Votes: 14 5.9%
  • B

    Votes: 75 31.8%
  • C

    Votes: 92 39.0%
  • D

    Votes: 41 17.4%
  • F

    Votes: 14 5.9%

  • Total voters
    236
Here is how the grades average out using a 4.0 grading scale through 193 votes.

A = 4
B = 3
C = 2
D = 1
F = 0

Average over 193 votes = 2.10 - C minus

Still crazy to see such a wide range of opinions on a season, but makes sense when everyone is basing their opinions on different factors.
 

Gave it a C, went the way I thought it would. In the offseason with the new free transfer rule and even how the portal went the year before, when it became clear after the NW home loss last year that Pitino was finished, my biggest fear for the next coach was going to be a mass exodus of players, sure they may like the new coach, but when you can move consequence free, it's like being an employee and you get a new boss, it may turn out alright, but you're going to have change thrusted upon you, you're going to want as much control as possible of the end result and put yourself in the best situation for yourself. The exodus turned out even worse than i thought it would, I never imagine Gabe would leave and I thought Gach and Johnson would stick it out another year as well. Carr never thought he'd play college again, Robbins and Mashburn didn't shock me and quite frankly I didn't care what Mitchell, Freeman or Tre Williams did.

I actually liked most of the moves in the portal, Ogele, and Daniels were desperation moves, but I thought Sutherlin was a pleasant surprise, thought he would be a deep reserve, perhaps Ben did too. But I thought Battle, Fox Willis, Loewe and Stephens was a nice haul, if you get five guys like that to join a core in place, lets just say for example of core of Robbins, Gach, Gabe, Johnson, Ihnen, Curry and Thompson, throw in Sutherlin and that's a good 13 man roster and you're competing for a tourney birth, however that obviously didn't happen. I'll put about 10% Ben for the roster turnover, obviously had a chance to re recruit some guys, but when you can move around consequence free, I'm not going to blame Ben for guys looking out for themselves, if Jackson-Davis declares, I think it would have all fallen apart at IU, so kudos for Woodson for convincing his star to stay.

As for the season when the schedule came out I thought we would go 7-3 in non con and 5-15 in big ten play. for 12-18 record. We went 9-0 and 4-16 13-16. Probably go 14-16 if Alcorn State game is played. Record wise, would up a smidge better overall a smidge worse in league play, too bad we didn't have Curry in the Iowa and Ohio State home losses, but the Rutgers win was special and will find out in a few hours with Michigan, but with that win Ben Johnson, did something his coach never did in seven years and some change, beat an NCAA team on the road. On another note, it was nice to see A&M CC, Alcorn State, Princeton, Jacksonville and Fort Wayne all make runs to the semis and finals of their conference tournaments. Kansas City believed tied for third in the Summit regular season.

Recruiting sucked to lose out on Tre and Pierre, but I think Carrington was a nice get. And the staff did a good job of building relationships with Payne and JOJ, as they were late bloomers and really blew up over summer, especially Payne, there recruitments reminded me of Macura in 2014 Tschetter last year and to a lesser extent Reuvers in 2017, it was nice to see Ben Johnson and Dave Thorson put in the work on those guys when Pitino probably would have ignored them.

All in all I like the freshman class coming in, looking at the all big ten teams, and whose probably leaving, I think Battle could have a shot at Preseason all Big Ten, a great building block to have. Sounds like we are sitting well with our top 2023 targets and I'm excited to see what we get in the portal. If we recruit well, I think by year three Ben will have a nucleus that can make a run as upperclassmen and will probably know by Twins opening day what we will have in the portal to determine what next year will look like, but no sense in putting the cart before the horse on that, somethings need to happen before the delusions of grandeur start to set in.
 

It is the first time we finished in position for the last seed in the conference since at least 1967 I think.

2015 non conference losses were to:
20 win Milwaukee
12 win Oklahoma state
26 win South Dakota state
14 win South Dakota
21 win temple


clearly a worse year. But I would say both Fs all else being equal. All else is not equal so I rated this year a D overall.
Where has Ben participated in a winning collegiate program.
 


Man I'm fired up for next year now. Dakota says Fox is basically Giannis, Ihnen is KD, TT is McHale! LETS GO !!! guy clearly knows the guys in and out, way better bball guy than me you jen Greta or Karen ever will be!!
Don't recall saying any of our guys resembled McHale. But yeah, most of us here know more than you, Greta.
 


Not to be argumentative but this is kind of a ridiculous statement. Completely new coaching staff and new offensive and defensive systems for all the players, a new school and environment for a bunch of the players. It doesn't matter if you're 18 or 24 years old, you should be a lot more efficient and effective playing in the new system and scheme in March than you were in Nov/Dec if the coaching is doing anything at all.

I hope you're not saying that players in the NBA stop progressing and developing when they reach 22 years old? Come on man...

There are different ways to evaluate a coach, with two primary ones in college being recruiting/roster assembly and actual coaching. BJ and the staff can absolutely 100% get a free pass this first year on how difficult it was going to be to assemble a roster. I find it hard to give them a free pass on the team just plain looking a lot worse at the end of the year than in the beginning. The competition argument is weak as well, regardless of competition, you can tell if the players are improving and working more efficiently in the system.
You are confusing team play, which can always improve with good coaching, with natural physical talent, which generally does not.
 

Tough crowd here. We'll get a better idea next year on the steps that he has taken in both recruiting and coaching. Hard to judge a guy in his first year.
 

It is the first time we finished in position for the last seed in the conference since at least 1967 I think.

2015 non conference losses were to:
20 win Milwaukee
12 win Oklahoma state
26 win South Dakota state
14 win South Dakota
21 win temple


clearly a worse year. But I would say both Fs all else being equal. All else is not equal so I rated this year a D overall.

We didn't finish in last place in 2015-2016 because there was a 1-17 Rutgers in the conference. We didn't have a team that shitty this year and usually the conference doesn't have one that bad.

Nonconference games count too! A 6-6 nonconference record is horrible for a Big Ten team. I can agree with a D grade but there's no way this season was as bad as 2015-16.
 

We didn't finish in last place in 2015-2016 because there was a 1-17 Rutgers in the conference. We didn't have a team that shitty this year and usually the conference doesn't have one that bad.

Nonconference games count too! A 6-6 nonconference record is horrible for a Big Ten team. I can agree with a D grade but there's no way this season was as bad as 2015-16.
If it wasn’t for us there would’ve been a 17 loss Nebraska this year too. So that’s kinda funny.

non conference games do count. That’s literally why I said “clearly a worse year”
Both Fs all else being equal, but this one was much closer to pass than that one was. And this one had the extenuating circumstance of a coaching change wrecking the roster.
 



If it wasn’t for us there would’ve been a 17 loss Nebraska this year too. So that’s kinda funny.

No, if it wasn't for us, Nebraska would have won 3 conference games. You can't say that if Nebraska didn't beat us they wouldn't have beaten anyone else. It was clear when we played Nebraska that they did have some athletic talent including freshman McGowens who is predicted to be a first round pick. They should have had a better season than they did.
 

No, if it wasn't for us, Nebraska would have won 3 conference games. You can't say that if Nebraska didn't beat us they wouldn't have beaten anyone else. It was clear when we played Nebraska that they did have some athletic talent including freshman McGowens who is predicted to be a first round pick. They should have had a better season than they did.
Lol okay

I’m not even sure you disagree with what I’m saying. I said this season was an F in a regular season but a D because it’s his first year.

I said the 15-16 season was also an F but a lower F due to non conference.
 

Lol okay

I’m not even sure you disagree with what I’m saying. I said this season was an F in a regular season but a D because it’s his first year.

I said the 15-16 season was also an F but a lower F due to non conference.

Well, I stated at the outset my reasons for disagreeing with the "F" grade. That should be reserved for exceptionally awful teams and I didn't feel this one was bad enough. At least this one had a very good non-conference season and it also had a better nonconference season (albeit not close to good) than the 2015-16 team.

I've taught at the collegiate level since the mid-nineties. On the whole, F grades aren't given as much as they were 50 years ago. I apply the same change in grading to athletic teams. :)
 

No, if it wasn't for us, Nebraska would have won 3 conference games. You can't say that if Nebraska didn't beat us they wouldn't have beaten anyone else. It was clear when we played Nebraska that they did have some athletic talent including freshman McGowens who is predicted to be a first round pick. They should have had a better season than they did.
Yeah I was about to say I thought Nebby would challenge for a Tourney birth in the pre season, definitely got that one wrong. Underestimated Iowa and Wisconsin, overestimated Maryland, NW, Nebby, and to lesser extents Sparty and Michigan
 



Well, I stated at the outset my reasons for disagreeing with the "F" grade. That should be reserved for exceptionally awful teams and I didn't feel this one was bad enough. At least this one had a very good non-conference season and it also had a better nonconference season (albeit not close to good) than the 2015-16 team.

I've taught at the collegiate level since the mid-nineties. On the whole, F grades aren't given as much as they were 50 years ago. I apply the same change in grading to athletic teams. :)

I find it interesting that people will give 2015-16 an F as a whole, fail to acknowledge the roster construction that led to that season, then give Ben a pass for this season when he had a lot more control over the roster construction due to the current transfer portal.

The 15-16 team was really bad on the court, but they had young talent and you could see it. Nate Mason was a sophomore, Dupree McBrayer and Jordan Murphy were freshman, Reggie Lynch was sitting out as a transfer. Mason, McBrayer, and Dorsey were suspended at the end of that season which led to those final really bad losses. The reason they were young is because Tubby left nothing in the cupboard his last two recruiting classes, and he had to build through mostly HS players.

Pitino had Coffey and Curry committed who were both 4 stars, and higher ranked than any recruits we have coming in next season. He also added Akeem Springs, and the Gophers were a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament the following season.

People want to scream that Johnson was left with a depleted roster, when none of the players who could have returned had committed elsewhere. Mike Woodson came into Indiana and kept several players who were going to leave, and now they are a tournament team.

People want say a lack of depth is why this years team was bad, but how much better would the depth had been if he would have just kept Brandon Johnson, Gach, and Gabe, who all went go play for other 1st year head coaches?

What's left for next season? Battle is very good, we all think Fox can be good but that's unknown, and Ihnen can likely offer depth. The HS class coming in appears to be good, but not great on paper, and there are still massive holes on this roster just to compete with teams in the middle of the conference.

15-16 was an F, but you could see that brighter days were ahead. This year was an F because they finished last, and the future of climbing out of the basement is still very uncertain.
 

I find it interesting that people will give 2015-16 an F as a whole, fail to acknowledge the roster construction that led to that season, then give Ben a pass for this season when he had a lot more control over the roster construction due to the current transfer portal.

The 15-16 team was really bad on the court, but they had young talent and you could see it. Nate Mason was a sophomore, Dupree McBrayer and Jordan Murphy were freshman, Reggie Lynch was sitting out as a transfer. Mason, McBrayer, and Dorsey were suspended at the end of that season which led to those final really bad losses. The reason they were young is because Tubby left nothing in the cupboard his last two recruiting classes, and he had to build through mostly HS players.

Pitino had Coffey and Curry committed who were both 4 stars, and higher ranked than any recruits we have coming in next season. He also added Akeem Springs, and the Gophers were a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament the following season.

People want to scream that Johnson was left with a depleted roster, when none of the players who could have returned had committed elsewhere. Mike Woodson came into Indiana and kept several players who were going to leave, and now they are a tournament team.

People want say a lack of depth is why this years team was bad, but how much better would the depth had been if he would have just kept Brandon Johnson, Gach, and Gabe, who all went go play for other 1st year head coaches?

What's left for next season? Battle is very good, we all think Fox can be good but that's unknown, and Ihnen can likely offer depth. The HS class coming in appears to be good, but not great on paper, and there are still massive holes on this roster just to compete with teams in the middle of the conference.

15-16 was an F, but you could see that brighter days were ahead. This year was an F because they finished last, and the future of climbing out of the basement is still very uncertain.

We have a good class coming in….we are in good position in future classes and we have a coaching staff that high school basketball coaches actually like compared to the previous coaching staff we had. The middle of the conference made the NCAA tournament this year. Was our bench not very useful this year….yeah and part of that was the position Johnson was the put in or put himself in. In his defense it’s more difficult to build a team than anyone posting on this board realizes. Fox being healthy and one or two more guys deciding to play here would have made a huge difference. Before the season no one expected us to win as many games as we did. Many people thought we were worse than St Thomas. If you can’t see the future is brighter now than at the end of the Pitino’s regime….you need to get your eyes checked. It takes a while to recover from the broken recruiting position Pitino put us in.
 

I find it interesting that people will give 2015-16 an F as a whole, fail to acknowledge the roster construction that led to that season, then give Ben a pass for this season when he had a lot more control over the roster construction due to the current transfer portal.

The 15-16 team was really bad on the court, but they had young talent and you could see it. Nate Mason was a sophomore, Dupree McBrayer and Jordan Murphy were freshman, Reggie Lynch was sitting out as a transfer. Mason, McBrayer, and Dorsey were suspended at the end of that season which led to those final really bad losses. The reason they were young is because Tubby left nothing in the cupboard his last two recruiting classes, and he had to build through mostly HS players.

Pitino had Coffey and Curry committed who were both 4 stars, and higher ranked than any recruits we have coming in next season. He also added Akeem Springs, and the Gophers were a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament the following season.

People want to scream that Johnson was left with a depleted roster, when none of the players who could have returned had committed elsewhere. Mike Woodson came into Indiana and kept several players who were going to leave, and now they are a tournament team.

People want say a lack of depth is why this years team was bad, but how much better would the depth had been if he would have just kept Brandon Johnson, Gach, and Gabe, who all went go play for other 1st year head coaches?

What's left for next season? Battle is very good, we all think Fox can be good but that's unknown, and Ihnen can likely offer depth. The HS class coming in appears to be good, but not great on paper, and there are still massive holes on this roster just to compete with teams in the middle of the conference.

15-16 was an F, but you could see that brighter days were ahead. This year was an F because they finished last, and the future of climbing out of the basement is still very uncertain.
15-16 was a roster construction issue that to me isn’t forgivable outside a coaches first year. I’m not sure how you forgive not having a good roster in year 3.

Johnson chalk up to injury
Mcbrayer and Murphy good freshmen recruits that were long term great program guys:

Gilbert and Dorsey bad gets it turns out

two guys redshirting due to transfers
Diedhiou
Konate
Gilbert

That’s 40% of the scholarship roster that’s dead weight. Of course they couldn’t sustain through Johnson heart thing and three suspensions. But you can’t have 40% of your roster be guys who either can’t play or CANT PLAY in year 3.

Those suspensions only impacted 3 games.
 

We have a good class coming in….we are in good position in future classes and we have a coaching staff that high school basketball coaches actually like compared to the previous coaching staff we had. The middle of the conference made the NCAA tournament this year. Was our bench not very useful this year….yeah and part of that was the position Johnson was the put in or put himself in. In his defense it’s more difficult to build a team than anyone posting on this board realizes. Fox being healthy and one or two more guys deciding to play here would have made a huge difference. Before the season no one expected us to win as many games as we did. Many people thought we were worse than St Thomas. If you can’t see the future is brighter now than at the end of the Pitino’s regime….you need to get your eyes checked. It takes a while to recover from the broken recruiting position Pitino put us in.

It's really not all that good of a class coming in. Hoping for the best, expecting the worst: MN Sports.
 

The 15-16 team was really bad on the court, but they had young talent and you could see it. Nate Mason was a sophomore, Dupree McBrayer and Jordan Murphy were freshman, Reggie Lynch was sitting out as a transfer. Mason, McBrayer, and Dorsey were suspended at the end of that season which led to those final really bad losses. The reason they were young is because Tubby left nothing in the cupboard his last two recruiting classes, and he had to build through mostly HS players.

But future potential is irrelevant to my evaluation of a season, as it should be in my opinion. Pitino got plenty of kudos from most interested parties for the performance in 2016-17. The only thing that matters to me is that particular season compared to others. The saving grace from the potential for future improvement is only to give one more optimism for the next season.

As I mentioned previously, I have been a collegiate instructor for many years. I would not go back and regrade a poorly done and poorly graded assignment because the student's performance on the next assignment was much better.
 


But you can’t have 40% of your roster be guys who either can’t play or CANT PLAY in year 3.

Those suspensions only impacted 3 games.
Indeed, because if two or three guys are injured, suspended, or leave the team, then you could have more than half of the roster consisting of guys who can't play.
 

Yeah I was about to say I thought Nebby would challenge for a Tourney birth in the pre season, definitely got that one wrong. Underestimated Iowa and Wisconsin, overestimated Maryland, NW, Nebby, and to lesser extents Sparty and Michigan

I definitely underestimated Iowa and Wisconsin too. Amazing how much a potential lottery pick can help a team sometimes!
 

I find it interesting that people will give 2015-16 an F as a whole, fail to acknowledge the roster construction that led to that season, then give Ben a pass for this season when he had a lot more control over the roster construction due to the current transfer portal.

The 15-16 team was really bad on the court, but they had young talent and you could see it. Nate Mason was a sophomore, Dupree McBrayer and Jordan Murphy were freshman, Reggie Lynch was sitting out as a transfer. Mason, McBrayer, and Dorsey were suspended at the end of that season which led to those final really bad losses. The reason they were young is because Tubby left nothing in the cupboard his last two recruiting classes, and he had to build through mostly HS players.

Pitino had Coffey and Curry committed who were both 4 stars, and higher ranked than any recruits we have coming in next season. He also added Akeem Springs, and the Gophers were a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament the following season.

People want to scream that Johnson was left with a depleted roster, when none of the players who could have returned had committed elsewhere. Mike Woodson came into Indiana and kept several players who were going to leave, and now they are a tournament team.

People want say a lack of depth is why this years team was bad, but how much better would the depth had been if he would have just kept Brandon Johnson, Gach, and Gabe, who all went go play for other 1st year head coaches?

What's left for next season? Battle is very good, we all think Fox can be good but that's unknown, and Ihnen can likely offer depth. The HS class coming in appears to be good, but not great on paper, and there are still massive holes on this roster just to compete with teams in the middle of the conference.

15-16 was an F, but you could see that brighter days were ahead. This year was an F because they finished last, and the future of climbing out of the basement is still very uncertain.
100%. It is much better to have a bottom out year with a young squad than with an old one.

If we had the record we had this year with 3-4 freshman starters, people would be lined up to buy tickets for next year.
 

Some major spin zone stuff to put the roster issues on the previous coach in year 3 for Pitino but put the entire roster problem on Johnson in year 1. Maybe the Johnson couldn't attract better talent in year 1 before coaching a game because the team was at the bottom of the conference for the majority of the 8 years prior?
 



100%. It is much better to have a bottom out year with a young squad than with an old one.

If we had the record we had this year with 3-4 freshman starters, people would be lined up to buy tickets for next year.
Now with the Transfer Portal/no Redshirt year the days of P5 teams going with 3-4 freshman starters are going to be non-existent/extremely rare (unless a couple are expected to be 1 and done as a pit stop to the NBA).

Only way it would ever happen is if a HC has had tremendous success in the past and has enough collateral to withstand a reset year with a very understanding fanbase and AD.
 

Now with the Transfer Portal/no Redshirt year the days of P5 teams going with 3-4 freshman starters are going to be non-existent/extremely rare (unless a couple are expected to be 1 and done as a pit stop to the NBA).

Only way it would ever happen is if a HC has had tremendous success in the past and has enough collateral to withstand a reset year with a very understanding fanbase and AD.
If we are going the transfer portal route long term- then we hired the wrong coach. My belief is that Ben was hired to recruit the best of the locals and build a program that is a developmental program somewhat like the dreaded Badgers. If you want a "reload every year" coach there are a bunch of others that would have been preferred. I think that going developmental with a rare transfer addition is a much better way to go and gives recruits a view that you won't recruit over the top of them with the next shiny object out of the portal.
 

If we are going the transfer portal route long term- then we hired the wrong coach. My belief is that Ben was hired to recruit the best of the locals and build a program that is a developmental program somewhat like the dreaded Badgers. If you want a "reload every year" coach there are a bunch of others that would have been preferred. I think that going developmental with a rare transfer addition is a much better way to go and gives recruits a view that you won't recruit over the top of them with the next shiny object out of the portal.
You said 3-4 freshmen as starters. That is the part that is not happening. Anywhere.

Ben Johnson can "still recruit the best of the locals and build a program" but that would be with 1 or maybe 2 freshmen as starters, with perhaps another in the rotation off the bench. That's about it.
 
Last edited:

If we are going the transfer portal route long term- then we hired the wrong coach. My belief is that Ben was hired to recruit the best of the locals and build a program that is a developmental program somewhat like the dreaded Badgers. If you want a "reload every year" coach there are a bunch of others that would have been preferred. I think that going developmental with a rare transfer addition is a much better way to go and gives recruits a view that you won't recruit over the top of them with the next shiny object out of the portal.
Agree with the developmental sentiment but don't think transfers have to be a rare occurrence for that to happen. Transfer portal is a key way to make a developmental program work, we are seeing it first hand in football. The core of your team needs to be guys you bring in and develop and then you use the portal to fill in the gaps around them.
 

Like it or not, the transfer portal is now an integral part of D1 FB and hoops.

When players leave via the portal, they have to be replaced.

I agree that, in a perfect world, you would want the bulk of your team to consist of HS players you have recruited and developed.

But, for roster management, you have to be flexible. If two kids leave via the portal, I don't know if you want a huge incoming FR class. to balance the roster, I think you would want to bring in at least one or two experienced players through the portal or a grad transfer.

Bottom line - excuse the cynicism, but fans will complain about the portal when it hurts "their" team but they will love it when it helps "their" team.

If the Gophs bring in an All-B1G level player through the portal, no one will be complaining that "they should have given that roster spot to a HS player."
 




Top Bottom