What grade do you give Ben Johnson for his first year?

What grade do you give Ben Johnson for his first year?

  • A

    Votes: 14 5.9%
  • B

    Votes: 75 31.8%
  • C

    Votes: 92 39.0%
  • D

    Votes: 41 17.4%
  • F

    Votes: 14 5.9%

  • Total voters
    236

That's a fair point. You could still move but waivers weren't handed out with a rubber stamp. Coleman left the team, if memory serves. The rest of the guys stayed, I believe. Last year was a different animal.
It was different in that you could lose players but also pick them up. It worked both ways. He just didn't win enough in recruiting. Smart at Marquette put a whole new roster together.. 10 frosh and he is 19-12
 

6'8" is an extremely reasonable size for someone to rebound well in the Big Ten. 6 of the top 10 rebounders in the Big 10 this year were 6'9" or shorter, and Jordan Murphy deserves at shoutout
Agreed. Not slamming Fox at all. The comment about he and ihnen worth 20 points defensively is ludicrous.
 

Who knows, the two players missing this season could have some silver lining? Both have two more years to go into, expectedly, a more stable program.
 

I’m not so sure the base is stronger. Very few returning contributors. Major reliance for significant contribution from players coming back from injury and freshmen who have promise but on paper aren’t the kind of guys who facilitate quick turnarounds. The saving grace of this year’s team was maturity in the supporting cast players beyond the two legitimate B1G players. From the beginning I thought that next year could be worse than this and I’ve seen nothing to change that perspective. Ben may be a great coach but he hasn’t left a good portion of the fan base a lot to be hopeful about next year.

Best of luck in the portal. Without a proven point guard and a serviceable big, we are in for some ugly losses next year.
Well, thanks for throwing my optimism on the floor and stomping on it.:cry: Actually, I think you're very fair and knowledgable so it kind of is a downer. When you're 76 and have had many more lows than highs since you heard Lou Hudson broke his shooting hand, you really want to see the light at the end of the tunnel get brighter.
 



Giving an F is absolutely ridiculous. Once Fox and Ihnen went down, most people on this website were saying this team wouldn't even win ten games total. You're just pissed they didn't make the postseason after going undefeated in the non-conference.

This team played extremely hard, and they were in a bunch of close games. Just not enough depth, talent, and athleticism to close out Big Ten games. I only saw one game where this team quit. How many Gopher teams have you seen in the last twenty years that got down big in the first half and then pretty much coasted to the loss? Ben also showed he's an excellent play-caller out of timeouts.

I would rate this year as a B-, given preseason expectations.
 

Yes, inability to retain anyone from last year. Even our last coach was able to sell the program and kept much of the prior regime's roster intact. It led to a markedly better first year than we just observed and a roster that had much more upside (as of now) for year two. I'm just comparing the first year, not making an overall endorsement of Pitino.

I'm not willing to give a complete pass to Johnson for having to fill 11scholarships. Is it unprecedented? No, but certainly unusual. But again, that's at least partially on him. The roster didn't have room for Fox AND Johnson? Williams AND Stephens? Gach AND Thiam? By your own admission, we had four scholarships either unfilled or filled by players with no chance to develop. I'm pretty sure Williams, Freeman, Gach, Johnson, others could have provided more than your assessment of some of these wasted scholarships. That's at least partially on Ben.
It's on him if they left because they didn't want to play for him. If their minds were made up to play elsewhere, not so much. Guys who don't want to be here are not a good fit.
 

Well, thanks for throwing my optimism on the floor and stomping on it.:cry: Actually, I think you're very fair and knowledgable so it kind of is a downer. When you're 76 and have had many more lows than highs since you heard Lou Hudson broke his shooting hand, you really want to see the light at the end of the tunnel get brighter.
Take delight in that I am usually more wrong than right. If it’s any consolation I was talking to some Penn State people today and they are in a similar position as us. Their best players are moving on and they will be in rebuild mode next year too. They will have a little more experience than us but not much.
 



Agreed. Not slamming Fox at all. The comment about he and ihnen worth 20 points defensively is ludicrous.
Jen, surely you recall a couple of our losses where the other team was two for ever on threes yet they scored 25 or 30 bunnies on back doors, put backs, and lay ups to beat us. Think Fox and Ihnen could have said "Not here" on a bunch of those gimmies?
 

It was different in that you could lose players but also pick them up. It worked both ways. He just didn't win enough in recruiting. Smart at Marquette put a whole new roster together.. 10 frosh and he is 19-12

You are right about the upside and downside of the current transfer portal. Shaka Smart has a slightly more established pedigree than Johnson so it's not surprising he could build a team late with 10 freshmen and have a successful year.

A better comparison for me is the Penn State coach -- first year coach at a traditional conference doormat. He managed to retain 7 players from the prior year including Dread/Harrar/Lundy. They didn't have a great year but they have now had 9 conference wins beyond January 1st and we had 3. Pickett was a nice transfer for them but much of their production was from the players they retained. They also have at least 8 guys on the roster now that are juniors/sophomores/freshmen and a recruiting class for 2022 ranked higher than ours. Shrewsberry had a better first year than Johnson by any metric.
 
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Well, thanks for throwing my optimism on the floor and stomping on it.:cry: Actually, I think you're very fair and knowledgable so it kind of is a downer. When you're 76 and have had many more lows than highs since you heard Lou Hudson broke his shooting hand, you really want to see the light at the end of the tunnel get brighter.
That was bad news. But Sweet Lou still averaged 15 a game shooting all left-handed and we unleashed Archie Clark for about 22 a game. Don Yates right behind.

No finer threesome ever played for the Gophers.
 

Giving an F is silly. I know we live in a time of knee jerk reactions but there wasn’t a soul that had this team finishing 4 games under .500 before the season started. Particularly with power conference road wins including the big one at Michigan. Despite being undersized and undermanned, they played up against Wisconsin both times and were a play or two away from pulling an upset. To me that matters when there’s a clear talent gap, we’re undersized and short on depth. Willis and Battle (who we get two more years of) were tremendous adds, if Ihnen and Parker Fox aren’t lost for the season, I think we’re on par or slightly better than PSU and Maryland. Payne’s arguably got the highest ceiling in the state and as mentioned before, Carrington’s looking like the front runner for Mr. Basketball. Henley’s also had an impressive year out in California.

the games that disappointed me most were @Nebraska, @PSU, @iowa and @NW, just inexcusable effort in those games. The front court transfers they brought in were not good, missing on Race and Dawson aren’t the end of the world but there were definitely better options out there. Would have been nice to have a bigger bodied 5 even if Ihnen and Fox were healthy. Another ball handler would have been nice too, Thiam was a questionable addition.

I’d give the season a C+. Slight overachievement with the strong non-conference showing. The roster overhaul was necessary IMO because I thought the culture was poor and the parts didn’t mesh to a point to produce good team basketball. In flashes, we saw a fluid offense with good floor spacing, a coach that maximizes timeouts, defensive creativity and flexibility despite clear disadvantages, a real sense of togetherness both on the court with effort and off the court with how united they were as a group. Also restoring a sense of pride with the return of some of the players of the past, hopefully that’s something that can be built on.

I feel positive about this staff in the longer term, both Johnson and each of his assistants are impressive in their own right. Obviously a big off-season coming up that likely shapes how this tenure will go, I believe we’ll see higher quality transfers and I’m hopeful we pull one of the big three in-staters before the summer’s out. Hang in there, we got through the rough transition year…wasn’t too dissimilar to Fleck’s first was it?
Flecks first year was a 3 way tie for 11th
2-2 vs bottom 7 in the conference
Gophers in a 2 way tie for 13th.
3-7 vs bottom 7 in the conference:

both unbeaten against a non conference schedule not that impressive.

I would say that getting last place in the conference is worse than not getting last place but that’s just me. I suppose that you could say both were equally totally disappointing.
 



It's on him if they left because they didn't want to play for him. If their minds were made up to play elsewhere, not so much. Guys who don't want to be here are not a good fit.

We can agree to disagree. I agree there are some players that would have left pretty much regardless of who they could have hired. (Mashburn and Robbins in particular) But I still think the number of players that stayed was awful and led to the results this year. That said....I'm actually more concerned about how little they are bringing back next year. But we'll find out as we go along and Johnson clearly deserves more time.
 


Other than the losing, it was enjoyable not seeing Pitino stomp around with his arms folded after a bad play or call.
Pitino still owns the best conference finish and only true conference title contention in the 23 years since Haskins was fired (11-7, 4th place, 3 games out of first place). That was his fourth season here. The hope is that Ben can at least duplicate that feat in his first half decade in this job.
 

I guess Tanner Morgan, Chris Autman-Bell, John Michael Schmitz, Mo Ibrahim, Boye Mafe, and Esezi Otomewo should have just stayed in the MAC since they haven't contributed to the success of the program....Plus he had to recruit Winfield Jr to stay and keep Blaise Andries committed. All of those players were recruited his first 3 weeks on the job to a program coming off of a very public scandal.
Boys was not a MAC recruit. The others were. PJ also didn’t have to deal with free transfers, which considering all that went on during that time and the anger the players had towards the university I would guess there would have been a large group that would have left.
 

What grade do you give Thorson? Because when the Gophers were winning he sure was getting a lot of credit!

I give Ben a strong B for coaching. Team were organized, played hard, and played smart. Made in-game adjustments. They were just outmatched which you can give him and his staff blame. My opinion is he went the year Zero route like PJ. He also has a good start on recruiting. Needs a starting PG and Big out of the portal.
 

We can agree to disagree. I agree there are some players that would have left pretty much regardless of who they could have hired. (Mashburn and Robbins in particular) But I still think the number of players that stayed was awful and led to the results this year. That said....I'm actually more concerned about how little they are bringing back next year. But we'll find out as we go along and Johnson clearly deserves more time.
I am not so concerned with what's coming back. Battle, Fox, and Ihnen make a good core. Thompson is already in the gym, weight room, and dining room getting ready to play. And in starting fresh the focus is on who is coming in, not who just left. Four good recruits and three or four transfers. We will be much stronger next year.
 

Man I'm fired up for next year now. Dakota says Fox is basically Giannis, Ihnen is KD, TT is McHale! LETS GO !!! guy clearly knows the guys in and out, way better bball guy than me you jen Greta or Karen ever will be!!
 

I gave Ben a B. Tough year. Like the rest of you, I live and die for Gopher basketball. Ben has the demeanor and the coaches to be successful. It will all be good.
 

Call it Year zero or year one… I saw enough this year to say I’m very confident the Gophers will not play on Wednesday next year in the Big Ten conference tournament.
 

Jen, surely you recall a couple of our losses where the other team was two for ever on threes yet they scored 25 or 30 bunnies on back doors, put backs, and lay ups to beat us. Think Fox and Ihnen could have said "Not here" on a bunch of those gimmies?
20 points defensively. Fox and II are going to be int he record books for improving opponent PPG!!!
 

Man I'm fired up for next year now. Dakota says Fox is basically Giannis, Ihnen is KD, TT is McHale! LETS GO !!! guy clearly knows the guys in and out, way better bball guy than me you jen Greta or Karen ever will be!!
:love: :love: :love: :love: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

If your bench basically has no one who can play a lick, what is it you’re suppose to develop? You see guys everyday in practice as a coach. Ben along with his assistants I believe Are every bit as focused on next season as the fan base.
Yep!!

We can complain until the "cows come home" but there ain't no hay in the barn.
 

Boys was not a MAC recruit. The others were. PJ also didn’t have to deal with free transfers, which considering all that went on during that time and the anger the players had towards the university I would guess there would have been a large group that would have left.

The transfer portal works both ways
 



Is anyone arguing that it doesn't? He landed good players in the portal but not enough to replace the 10+ that left (some before Ben was hired).
Going back to the point in the original post: Iowa St vs Minnesota this year.

- Iowa State hired TJ on March 18, 2021
- this is what TJ was able to do: https://247sports.com/college/iowa-state/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/

- we hired BJ on March 22, 2021
- this is what BJ was able to do: https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/


This says nothing about how much of those commits were due to the respective coaches vs the previous coaches, it says nothing about how much those players contributed to the current year's results, and it says nothing about who else was left on the roster for this year from the previous year.


The only further caveat is obviously Gabe. On one hand, you could argue that no matter what BJ said, Gabe wanted out and wanted a change of scenery. That could be true. But the case could also be made that Gabe would've stayed if BJ sold him well enough. I have no idea which is correct or closer to correct.
 

Going back to the point in the original post: Iowa St vs Minnesota this year.

- Iowa State hired TJ on March 18, 2021
- this is what TJ was able to do: https://247sports.com/college/iowa-state/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/

- we hired BJ on March 22, 2021
- this is what BJ was able to do: https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2021-Basketball/Commits/


This says nothing about how much of those commits were due to the respective coaches vs the previous coaches, it says nothing about how much those players contributed to the current year's results, and it says nothing about who else was left on the roster for this year from the previous year.


The only further caveat is obviously Gabe. On one hand, you could argue that no matter what BJ said, Gabe wanted out and wanted a change of scenery. That could be true. But the case could also be made that Gabe would've stayed if BJ sold him well enough. I have no idea which is correct or closer to correct.
Obviously TJ did better and he also has more guys to carry over to next year. I think Ben has a better frosh class coming in for next year...so that's good.
 




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