Western Conference Finals Minnesota Timberwolves vs Oklahoma City Thunder

Donate To GopherHole
golf said:
22 nugget turnovers led to 37 thunder pts today
Click to expand...
We dribbled a lot and settled for threes. OKC went to the hoop. I thought Edwards, who is my favorite player by far, mailed it in, in the 4th quarter. Go down fighting instead of laying down.
 


upnorthkid said:
The amount of “touch” calls he gets versus the rest of the league is insane. I get he’s a high usage but he’s become a massive statistical anomaly the last 3 years. Taking 1-2 more shots but getting 2-3 more FTs and scoring is up 6-8 points as a result.

He’s going to keep doing it because it works, and there’s no punishment for it. At some point, the nba is going to need to do what they did with 3 point shooters in allowing to call them for an offensive foul if they kick out to try draw contact or bait the refs. The flopping goes way further than sga, but he’s one of the most proficient at it (right up there with doncic)
Click to expand...
I was curious, so I checked the box score. SGA put up 27 shots (4 from 3pt). Ant put up 13 shots (8 from 3pt). SGA got 14 ft's, Ant got 7 FT's. SGA was rewarded for going to the hoop. OKC shut off the lane and/or Ant settled. (I think his ankle was bothering him.) The wolves should have constructed their defense in a way that dared him to shoot the 3. I know, easier said than done.
 


Border Gopher said:
Click to expand...

I am sure refs review these games. Really hard to fathom why they don't understand what is happening here.
Thanks for sharing the vid. Especially interesting the sequence where Shai gets the call and then DDV doesn't for virtually the same thing.
 
Last edited:



tikited said:
Donte passing to Rudy is textbook on what not to do. I don't put that on Rudy. Donte needs to be smarter.
Click to expand...

For sure. Generally, though, Rudy is playing significantly worse than last year playoffs imo.

The puzzling thing to me is how weak he is playing.
He just flaps at the ball when rebounding. If somehow he does get both hands on the ball, the slightest bump dislodges it.
If he is passed the ball, anything other than a wide open dunk turns into a disaster.
I get that they are two totally different types of players, but Chet is so much better.
 
Last edited:

golf said:
I am sure refs review these games. Really hard to fathom why they don't understand what is happening here.
Thanks for sharing the vid. Especially interesting the sequence where Shai gets the call and then DDV doesn't for virtually the same thing.
Click to expand...
I've seen a lot of national sports media calling it out after last night, not just MN fans.
 

golf said:
For sure. Generally, though, Rudy is playing significantly worse than last year playoffs imo.

The puzzling thing to me is how weak he is playing.
He just flaps at the ball when rebounding. If somehow he does get both hands on the ball, the slightest bump dislodges it.
If he is passed the ball, anything other than a wide open dunk turns into a disaster.
I get that they are two totally different types of players, but Chet is so much better.
Click to expand...
Chet couldn't do anything in the first half (when Rudy got most of his minutes).

I agree that something is up with Rudy offensively this year (playoffs), but I feel like this has happened during most of his career. He gets hacked constantly in the playoffs, with most not called. Finch hasn't been able to figure out how to fix this, minus the game against the Lakers.
 




Purple Daily assigning blame for last night:
10%. Ant
20%. Finch
70%. Bench
 

tikited said:
Chet couldn't do anything in the first half (when Rudy got most of his minutes).

I agree that something is up with Rudy offensively this year (playoffs), but I feel like this has happened during most of his career. He gets hacked constantly in the playoffs, with most not called. Finch hasn't been able to figure out how to fix this, minus the game against the Lakers.
Click to expand...

Whole Thunder team struggled first half, not sure I credit Chet's struggles strictly to Rudy. Guess would have to go back and look at the tape.
Anyway imo Chet is much better than Rudy thru the playoffs so far.

Also to your point though, Rudy had a +/- of -2.
I sometimes wonder about the efficacy of +/-, but that stat at least points positively regarding Rudy's contribution last night.
 

Advanced stats saying our 3 bench guys were 4 for 24 with open threes.
(5/28 overall)

Another:
Wolves 8-3 in playoffs this season. 8-0 when Ant has at least 4 assists. (Per Phil Mackey)
 
Last edited:



upnorthkid said:
The amount of “touch” calls he gets versus the rest of the league is insane. I get he’s a high usage but he’s become a massive statistical anomaly the last 3 years. Taking 1-2 more shots but getting 2-3 more FTs and scoring is up 6-8 points as a result.

He’s going to keep doing it because it works, and there’s no punishment for it. At some point, the nba is going to need to do what they did with 3 point shooters in allowing to call them for an offensive foul if they kick out to try draw contact or bait the refs. The flopping goes way further than sga, but he’s one of the most proficient at it (right up there with doncic)
Click to expand...
Tatum, Embid do too. Except SGA is good at it. I give him credit for selling well.

This discussion comes up everytime we play them.
 

atsgopher said:
Tatum, Embid do too. Except SGA is good at it. I give him credit for selling well.

This discussion comes up everytime we play them.
Click to expand...

Maybe coaches need to start practicing flopping techniques with their players.
Perhaps employ Flopping Coaches.
I write this in all seriousness.
 

jamiche said:
So SGA isn't in your top 100. You whine like Ant.

The wolves got beat by a better, smarter team last night that knew how to play the game and play the refs. Let's see if they learn something Thursday.
Click to expand...
jamiche said:
SGA has been getting those "phantom" calls for the last 2-3 years. He goes to the hoop all the time when he's not shooting the mid range, he's smooth as hell, changes speed and direction beautifully, knows how to use his off arm, leans into the defender then away as he goes up. Most importantly, he doesn't whine and he doesn't show the refs up. He's a smart player. Ant would get a lot more calls if he would shut up and stop flailing his arms.
Click to expand...

Where did I say he's not in the top 100? He's not a top 10-15 player like people say he his. He's DeMar DeRozan 2.0 who flops his way to more points.

It doesn't matter if he's gotten those calls for years. He pushes off and flops. That's not basketball. There's nothing beautiful about it.

If he got the same whistle as everyone else, and the Wolves were allowed to play D on him the way OKC is allowed to play D on the Wolves, he wouldn't make it to 20 PPG.
 
Last edited:

upnorthkid said:
What? They had 5 twos in the first half. Hartenstein had 5 buckets himself comparatively. Julius was raining 3s in the first half and ant was shooting ok. We had 2 buckets at the rim.
Click to expand...

I should have clarified I meant on defense. Hartenstein was good on O, but SGA, Williams, and Chet really struggled scoring on the Wolves size in the first half.

OKC baited the Wolves into taking 3s all night and they fell for it. If a few more 3's go down earlier, OKC likely has to change their D, making it easier for the Wolves to get to the basket. They need to figure out a way to be more balanced in game 2.
 

golf said:
Maybe coaches need to start practicing flopping techniques with their players.
Perhaps employ Flopping Coaches.
I write this in all seriousness.
Click to expand...
I’d be for it if they advertised and forced the NBA to address it. It ruins players and the game. I watch significantly less ball.

Only way Embid ever led the league in scoirng. Only way Lebron set the points record.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Where did I say he's not in the top 100? He's not a top 10-15 player like people say he his. He's DeMar DeRozan 2.0 who flops his way to more points.

It doesn't matter if he's gotten those calls for years. He pushes off and flops. That's not basketball. There's nothing beautiful about it.

If he got the same whistle as everyone else, and the Wolves were allowed to play D on him the way OKC is allowed to play D on the Wolves, he wouldn't make it to 20 PPG.
Click to expand...
I was mocking you about SGA not being a top 100 player because you deserved it.

OKC was 68-14 because of Nikola Topic and Rob Dillingham is 6'6" and 225lbs.

SGA is a great player and part of the reason he's a great player is he's really smart. He knows how to get calls. Sorry, part of being a great player is being really smart. Jokic is really smart. He gets calls. Curry is really smart. He gets calls. LeBron is really smart. He gets calls. Ant is a great player who isn't smart (yet). He doesn't get calls. KAT doesn't get calls.

DDV is really fun when he's on. He's also a very emotional player. He doesn't get calls.

SGA pisses me off too, but I respect his game. He's not DeRozan 2.0. If the wolves refuse to figure him out and keep whining about him, they'll get swept.
 

atsgopher said:
I’d be for it if they advertised and forced the NBA to address it. It ruins players and the game. I watch significantly less ball.

Only way Embid ever led the league in scoirng. Only way Lebron set the points record.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Maybe if teams started actively coaching flopping the league would address it.
 

jamiche said:
I was mocking you about SGA not being a top 100 player because you deserved it.

OKC was 68-14 because of Nikola Topic and Rob Dillingham is 6'6" and 225lbs.

SGA is a great player and part of the reason he's a great player is he's really smart. He knows how to get calls. Sorry, part of being a great player is being really smart. Jokic is really smart. He gets calls. Curry is really smart. He gets calls. LeBron is really smart. He gets calls. Ant is a great player who isn't smart (yet). He doesn't get calls. KAT doesn't get calls.

DDV is really fun when he's on. He's also a very emotional player. He doesn't get calls.

SGA pisses me off too, but I respect his game. He's not DeRozan 2.0. If the wolves refuse to figure him out and keep whining about him, they'll get swept.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that great players are really smart. SGA is pretty smart. But there's nothing smart about what the NBA allows for their manufactured star in SGA. The phantom calls are phantom calls to anyone with a pair of eyes and a functioning brain.

If the NBA wants their ratings to tank, last night was already really bad, they'll keep allowing a different set of rules for their manufactured star. If SGA was officiated the way Ant is, and allowed to be hacked as much as Ant is, and defensive players were allowed to hold and grab SGA as much as they allow Ant to be held and grabbed, he wouldn't be close to Ant's level.
 

golf said:
Maybe coaches need to start practicing flopping techniques with their players.
Perhaps employ Flopping Coaches.
I write this in all seriousness.
Click to expand...
In the NHL, it's a minor penalty for embellishment and it's a yellow card in soccer. You still need officials to properly and consistently enforce those rules, though.

If FTA was playing in a pickup game down at the YMCA and asking for those calls, he'd get laughed off the court.
 


Nick Wright is not local media. He is a premiere natl NBA media personality. Some of his thoughts:

"I hate that this (flopping) is the story of game 1."

"The way OKC gets to play football on one end of the court and behind museum glass on the other is infuriating."

"The dichotomy between how the Thunder guard . . . and the way Shai is allowed to be guarded . . . and time after time is rewarded is utterly maddening."

"It is impossible to watch . . . the way Caruso and Dort and Wiggins and Wallace and JDub are allowed to guard, and then see on the other end how SGA is treated by the refs . . . as if a different set of rules."

"When the refs make it clear right away they are going to reward Shai's flopping, then later in the game guys feel like they have to give him space because he's going to draw a foul even if it doesn't exist. Then Shai gets in a comfortable space to take that step back three "

"Alex Caruso is awesome . . . but was allowed to basically take out a police baton on Nikola Jokic. The refs were like whatever man."

"I wondered if Shai was going to get the whistle he got during the regular season in the playoffs . . . up to this point the answer is absolutely yes."

"You guys (Wolves) need to decide as a team if you are going to get your money's worth. Because right now Shai is getting the best of all worlds. He is living at the free throws line and he's leaving the game feeling better than he came in cause he had no hard contact. There wasn't a single foul that was a hard playoff foul."

Obviously at this point nothing will change. Wolves need to find a way to win anyway. Start with not throwing bricks at the rim and not turning the ball over.

 
Last edited:

Indiana tied game on a 2 pointer at the buzzer.

Tyrese Haliburton with the Reggie choke sign
 

golf said:
Nick Wright is not local media. He is a premiere natl NBA media personality. Some of his thoughts:

"I hate that this (flopping) is the story of game 1."

"The way OKC gets to play football on one end of the court and behind museum glass on the other is infuriating."

"The dichotomy between how the Thunder guard . . . and the way Shai is allowed to be guarded . . . and time after time is rewarded is utterly maddening."

"It is impossible to watch . . . the way Caruso and Dort and Wiggins and Wallace and JDub are allowed to guard, and then see on the other end how SGA is treated by the refs . . . as if a different set of rules."

"When the refs make it clear right away they are going to reward Shai's flopping, then later in the game guys feel like they have to give him space because he's going to draw a foul even if it doesn't exist. Then Shai gets in a comfortable space to take that step back three "

"Alex Caruso is awesome . . . but was allowed to basically take out a police baton on Nikola Jokic. The refs were like whatever man."

"I wondered if Shai was going to get the whistle he got during the regular season in the playoffs . . . up to this point the answer is absolutely yes."

"You guys (Wolves) need to decide as a team if you are going to get your money's worth. Because right now Shai is getting the best of all worlds. He is living at the free throws line and he's leaving the game feeling better than he came in cause he had no hard contact. There wasn't a single foul that was a hard playoff foul."

Obviously at this point nothing will change. Wolves need to find a way to win anyway. Start with not throwing bricks at the rim and not turning the ball over.

Click to expand...
Every quote is entirely correct
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I agree with you that great players are really smart. SGA is pretty smart. But there's nothing smart about what the NBA allows for their manufactured star in SGA. The phantom calls are phantom calls to anyone with a pair of eyes and a functioning brain.

If the NBA wants their ratings to tank, last night was already really bad, they'll keep allowing a different set of rules for their manufactured star. If SGA was officiated the way Ant is, and allowed to be hacked as much as Ant is, and defensive players were allowed to hold and grab SGA as much as they allow Ant to be held and grabbed, he wouldn't be close to Ant's level.
Click to expand...
I seriously doubt any NBA front office personnel, coaches or players would call SGA a "manufactured star" or "pretty smart," but you can.

Like it or not, there are three guys on the floor who are going to have something to do with the outcome and the wolves have to do a better job of getting balance in the calls. I'm not aware of Finch putting public pressure on the NBA about the reffing. I hope he's at least working them privately. The wolves have to get back on defense when they don't get calls. Ant has to keep his mouth shut and force calls by going to the hoop. The wolves need to pass more, dribble less and hit a three every once in a while.

Life isn't fair. The wolves can complain or adapt.
 



jamiche said:
I seriously doubt any NBA front office personnel, coaches or players would call SGA a "manufactured star" or "pretty smart," but you can.

Like it or not, there are three guys on the floor who are going to have something to do with the outcome and the wolves have to do a better job of getting balance in the calls. I'm not aware of Finch putting public pressure on the NBA about the reffing. I hope he's at least working them privately. The wolves have to get back on defense when they don't get calls. Ant has to keep his mouth shut and force calls by going to the hoop. The wolves need to pass more, dribble less and hit a three every once in a while.

Life isn't fair. The wolves can complain or adapt.
Click to expand...

Really? Finch was pretty public about it even before the series started. You want Ant to keep his mouth shut, well he has done a much better job of it since he was suspended. Still doesn't matter. He gets constantly hacked, doesn't get calls, SGA flops after someone gets within 3 ft of him and he goes to the line.

Brunson flops plenty too, but you can't tell me that after watching last nights game, that the officiating isn't entirely different for the Pacers, Knicks, and Wolves than it is for SGA/OKC. It has nothing to do with being 'smart'.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom