Western Conference Finals Minnesota Timberwolves vs Oklahoma City Thunder

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The former Knicks did not have a good game this evening. Which is unfortunate as ant showed up and you got some bonus points from guys like NAW.
 


Conley can dribble and handle the ball no one else can. Conley competes is always in position and knows his assignments… he might get beat off the dribble or they post him up but he is battling… he stays focused.. he is 38 not very big but is the least of the Wolves worries .. his focus on his task and his maturity show how immature and lacking focus especially on D some of the Wolves are…
 

Roland Brooks said:
Conley can dribble and handle the ball no one else can. Conley competes is always in position and knows his assignments… he might get beat off the dribble or they post him up but he is battling… he stays focused.. he is 38 not very big but is the least of the Wolves worries .. his focus on his task and his maturity show how immature and lacking focus especially on D some of the Wolves are…
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Ignoring getting a 3rd PG really showed this season. Forcing NAW and Donte into the role slows down the offense so much. Last night, it took almost 14 seconds on average to just get the ball to Ant with those two.
 

tikited said:
Ignoring getting a 3rd PG really showed this season. Forcing NAW and Donte into the role slows down the offense so much. Last night, it took almost 14 seconds on average to just get the ball to Ant with those two.
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this is the underappreciated aspect that doesn't show in the box (well it did last night with Donte turning it over repeatedly). When you're so much slower to initiate, it's much harder to get to your spots.

It is also why I'd like if we'd pick up a little more aggressively full court (even if its faux pressure) and smother SGA off the ball more as it just makes you exert more. Though this of course becomes challenging when they barely let you touch him before they call something, but make him catch it in the back court and take 5-6 seconds to come up the court rather than get set up with 20 seconds every time down. It lets them (and any team) swing the ball so many more times when you're actually in your set at 20 rather than 10 where the trigger to play iso ball comes at you way faster. This is also one of my pet peeves when we try feed Julius the ball is it just begs OKC to double hard late in the clock as he's getting it with under 10 on the shot clock with his back to the basket on a lob in. That's on Finch and the set up but plagued by that it take DDV and NAW 10-14 seconds to just get us down the court and into the offense
 


Some stats Thunder won:
Assists 30-20
Points off turnovers 22-10
Points in the paint 58-44
Steals 9-2
Offensive rebds 13-9

A couple other stats:
Naz, Julius, Ant from three were 1-17
Wolves in the 2nd half from three 2-15
Wolves in the 2nd half from two 16-24
 


The wolves were swarmed all night. Consequently, they rushed their shots and it showed in the shooting percentages. OKC's defense is elite. The wolves are also playing stupid basketball, led by DDV. Rudy. Should. Only. See. The. Ball. Above. His. Shoulders. Period.

I was listening to the Dane Moore Podcast the other day (a great listen, btw) and he had on his OKC counterpart. The guy said the wolves lineup that scared him the most was Naz at the 5 and Jaden at the 4. That's pretty much the lineup the wolves went with in the fourth last night. It was their most effective lineup. I hope we see more of it tomorrow night.

I know SGA gets calls and it's maddening for opposing teams and fans, but he's a great, great player. It was a Hershel Walker move for the Clippers to gift him (plus draft picks) to OKC for Paul George.
 

tikited said:
Ignoring getting a 3rd PG really showed this season.
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I think a lot us (okay...me) were lulled into a false sense of security at the PG position after trading for Dillingham.

I know it takes time for Rookies to find their groove in the league but I wasn't expecting him to be completely irrelevant and unplayable by the time the Playoffs rolled around.

Crazy things happen but OKC is a great team right down to their foundations. They also have an expansive war chest of tradable assets to improve their overall roster even further, far more than any other team in the NBA.
 



Roland Brooks said:
Conley can dribble and handle the ball no one else can. Conley competes is always in position and knows his assignments… he might get beat off the dribble or they post him up but he is battling… he stays focused.. he is 38 not very big but is the least of the Wolves worries .. his focus on his task and his maturity show how immature and lacking focus especially on D some of the Wolves are…
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He had 3 points and 3 assists.

You have to score to beat OKC. I think Conley kills us.

You have to get production out of the point guard.

Ant was 32, 9 and 7 last night with no turnovers. He was -22 in the plus/minus.

+/- is the most stupid stat in all of sports.

Point guard kills this team and has all year. Our starting point is old, and we don't have a backup so we are forced to use DDV and others at the point.
 
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Slim Tubby said:
I think a lot us (okay...me) were lulled into a false sense of security at the PG position after trading for Dillingham.

I know it takes time for Rookies to find their groove in the league but I wasn't expecting him to be completely irrelevant and unplayable by the time the Playoffs rolled around.

Crazy things happen but OKC is a great team right down to their foundations. They also have an expansive war chest of tradable assets to improve their overall roster even further, far more than any other team in the NBA.
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Dilly's shot is broken. Not sure if that can get fixed enough to be a starter in this league.
 

tikited said:
Dilly's shot is broken. Not sure if that can get fixed enough to be a starter in this league.
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Dilly shot 44% on the year. Conley shot 40% on the year.

Ant shot 45% on the year.

Why is his shot broken?

Now Rob could be a bust or a great player. I think the wolves already have an opinion formed on this. I wish we could be a fly on the wall and hear what is going on. If Rob is not it, we need to make a massive trade to find a point guard.
 
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kg21 said:
Dilly shot 44% on the year. Conley shot 40% on the year.

Ant shot 45% on the year.

Why is his shot broken?
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Dilly 3pt % is 33.

Conley 3pt % is 41.

I should have been clearer about that specific.

Plus, my eye test tells me Dilly has terrible form.
 



kg21 said:
Dilly shot 44% on the year. Conley shot 40% on the year.

Ant shot 45% on the year.

Why is his shot broken?
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go look at advanced shooting metrics, which account for type of shot, defense, etc.. getting to shoot wide open layups and shots against backups is very different
True shooting
Dilly 50.3%
Ant 59.5%
Conley 57.3%

Dilly's points added by shooting is like a -30% based on the shot quality he gets. It's not broken long term (Ant looked very similar early in his career).
 

tikited said:
Dilly 3pt % is 33.

Conley 3pt % is 41.

I should have been clearer about that specific.

Plus, my eye test tells me Dilly has terrible form.
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So we expect Dilly to stay at 33% forever based on his few games played. We need a slasher from the point. Someone who can break a defense down and get us some easy shots. Everything is so hard for Ant and the others. Right now, our max is the western conference finals until point guard is massively upgraded.
 

kg21 said:
So we expect Dilly to stay at 33% forever based on his few games played. We need a slasher from the point. Someone who can break a defense down and get us some easy shots. Everything is so hard for Ant and the others. Right now, our max is the western conference finals until point guard is massively upgraded.
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you're describing 2 very different players. They don't need more iso ball players. Jaden is a slasher. NAW is a slasher. DDV, Naz are spot up shooters with Mike being probably the most adept at both spot up shooting and drive and kick. we run a pick and roll heavy offense. So does OKC. They just have a rangy 4/5 and otherwise play small ball. It's why our offense "looks" smoother when Naz is on the floor instead of Rudy even if the efficiency is still so-so (some of that is Ant and some of it that we don't have that many true, blue knock down shooters).

With Ant, you need a floor spacer/ball mover who can drive and kick off the swing. NAW does this ok and is lightyears better than when he was drafted, but still not a plus shooter from outside yet. This is why Conley plays well with Ant as he can move to the corner and knock down shots when he is open plus can cut inside and make a good decision with the ball. You can't play another guy who specializes in iso ball when you already have Ant (he's a ball dominant SG) and Randle (he is a ball dominant F at his optimum and an ok spot up shooter/stretch forward). Floor spacing is the bigger issue. in regards to Ant and your next level of Ant becoming a true MVP type candidate is his decision making off the penetration where his assist/TO ratio starts to balloon more positively. He's getting there, he's just nowhere near his peak yet but this is the next part of all ball dominant stars and whether they peak as high scoring SGs or full team elevating players. Ant looks like a transcendent talent built as the latter if they can put enough shooting (with defense) around him.

It's actually why I think they may have pulled the plug on KAT a little early as KAT could create off the dribble a little (like Chet) and space the floor (also like Chet). Julius is an ok outside shooter, but 8% lower is a big swing in points over the course of a season.
 

Oh my gawd, we need someone to break the defense down and cause the defense to be off balance and get better looks.

You think Jaden and NAW do that? Seriously?

And as for Dillingham........he was considered the best shooter in the draft.
 

kg21 said:
Oh my gawd, we need someone to break the defense down and cause the defense to be off balance and get better looks.

You think Jaden and NAW do that? Seriously?

And as for Dillingham........he was considered the best shooter in the draft.
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He was considered a streaky shooter who had a bad rookie season. Can he improve, yes. Do I worry he's a backup? Yes. His form is bad. He is weak. Lots needs to change.
 

kg21 said:
Oh my gawd, we need someone to break the defense down and cause the defense to be off balance and get better looks.

You think Jaden and NAW do that? Seriously?

And as for Dillingham........he was considered the best shooter in the draft.
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a slasher drives the ball for layups and dunks, generally speaking off the catch or cutting to the hoop without the ball but their best spots of finishing are at the rim

They can occasionally have a bit of a handle, which yes NAW and Jaden both do. NAWs typical shot charts are 3s and at the rim. Jaden has a tiny amount of middy game but its always off the drive. Yeah they both can handle it enough, but no they can't initiate the offense for others (again that's a different role)

You're talking about a different player in that you want them to have the ball in their hands and be able to iso and create for others off the drive (its referred to more as a creator or a ball handler now).

There are some guys who are of interest in the draft around where the wolves should pick who could fit some of what you're talking about though and develop into that. I don't know how that fits on the floor with Ant at the same time, but Jakucionas (Ill) and Riley (Ill) both had that mold from the B10 this year. I'd prefer they get someone who's already developed in the league as more a ball dominant 6th man to come off the bench and take some minute load of Ant, be able to initiate (like say a Pritchard, Monk, or Reggie Jackson as players, not saying they'd be options)
 
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tikited said:
Not writing him off, but they need a starting PG next season. He ain't it.
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So how do we get one?

They don't grow on trees.

The four teams left have point guards named, haliburton, Brunson, and SGA. Denver took them to 7 with Murray being able to score. The Warriors won with a guy named Steph at point guard.

We will never contend with nothing from the point guard, which is basically what we get.
 

tikited said:
Not writing him off, but they need a starting PG next season. He ain't it.
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Rob D, TSJ, and Clark are all going to play a lot more next season as Conley's minutes continue to go down. People get way too worked up about positions in basketball.

Those 3 guys are a big reason why the Wolves beat OKC twice without Rudy/Randle. Maybe they need to play a little more small ball with those guys tomorrow night.
 

kg21 said:
So how do we get one?

They don't grow on trees.

The four teams left have point guards named, haliburton, Brunson, and SGA. Denver took them to 7 with Murray being able to score. The Warriors won with a guy named Steph at point guard.

We will never contend with nothing from the point guard, which is basically what we get.
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Garland is likely the best PG that "might" be available and would cost us McDaniels...for starters. Garland also has his own flaws and can't stay healthy.

Short of getting extremely lucky in the Draft, there are very few avenues for us to upgrade at PG that are more realistic than Dilly evolving into a Top 12 guy at his position. As we all witnessed this year, that is no guarantee, either.

Shepherd was taken earlier and he was considered the best shooter in last years Draft, not Dillingham. That dude could barely find the court for HOU, and when he did, he was terrible.

It could be worse...DAL basically let Brunson walk for nothing.
 

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