Welch

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scher215 said:
You're right, Welch is awful and anyone who thinks differently is just a Tubby basher.

Who in the world signed that Welch kid to a scholarship anyways??? He must be a real moron.
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A little over the top, eh? Julian is a decent player, but has struggled this year, without a doubt. He is slow footed for the B1G, which hampers his ability to play defense. I always liked his shooting when he is on, and agree with assessments that he might be effective against zones. Julian has been on the wrong end of more unforced turnovers than any guard I remember in a long time, though. For a senior, he had more apparantly "just not there" moments than asenior should have. I am glad his skills have been shown in the last games of his career.
 

Holy Man said:
A little over the top, eh? Julian is a decent player, but has struggled this year, without a doubt. He is slow footed for the B1G, which hampers his ability to play defense. I always liked his shooting when he is on, and agree with assessments that he might be effective against zones. Julian has been on the wrong end of more unforced turnovers than any guard I remember in a long time, though. For a senior, he had more apparantly "just not there" moments than asenior should have. I am glad his skills have been shown in the last games of his career.
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Sarcasm, sorry.

I like Welch a lot personally and think he is a pretty good player.
 

scher215 said:
You're right, Welch is awful and anyone who thinks differently is just a Tubby basher.

Who in the world signed that Welch kid to a scholarship anyways??? He must be a real moron.
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Another ridiculous post. I have never bashed a player and never will because I have played college sports and I know how it feels when people do it. Basketball is a game of confidence. There is so much involved to it than just putting a ball in the basket. I have a feeling that a coach like Tubby would understand who to play at any given night. I am not saying that he wouldn't make any mistakes. Anybody does. Welch did get his chances many times this year. He was just not into it. During his last game at the Barn, he played his best game. I am hoping that he gets more minutes and plays well during the next few games.

Go Gophers
 

The-Real-Truth said:
Another ridiculous post. I have never bashed a player and never will because I have played college sports and I know how it feels when people do it. Basketball is a game of confidence. There is so much involved to it than just putting a ball in the basket. I have a feeling that a coach like Tubby would understand who to play at any given night. I am not saying that he wouldn't make any mistakes. Anybody does. Welch did get his chances many times this year. He was just not into it. During his last game at the Barn, he played his best game. I am hoping that he gets more minutes and plays well during the next few games.

Go Gophers
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All I am saying is when Welch was getting minutes with starters last season, he played very well. The 5 subs at once is dumb, yes even for a HOF coach and I say that with confidence due to many HOF coaches who never do 5 subs at once. I disagree with it. I think it hurts players like Julian and Mav. Both look a lot better when they are with more starters amd have a set role. If you agree with Tubby and that he does that, no problem, but then you are essentially saying guys like coach K are not good coaches because they don't do the 5 subs at once. Tubby has made the adjustment lately, and I agree with it. It has helped a lot in my opinion.

IMO, if Julian got the playing time he would be putting up very good numbers. He proved it last year. He didn't forget how to play basketball. You are correct, maybe he lost some confidence, but even though it was PSU I believe he can still play at a high level.

But yes, I took you agreeing with a post that called Welch a non-big ten caliber player and said he should be in D2 as "bashing" him.

In the Big10 last season:

27 MPG
46.7% FG
42.9% 3PT
78.0% FT
10.5 PPG
3.1 RPG
3.6 APG
1.1 SPG
1.5 A/T Ratio

IMO, that is a Big10 caliber player.
 

scher215 said:
All I am saying is when Welch was getting minutes with starters last season, he played very well. The 5 subs at once is dumb, yes even for a HOF coach and I say that with confidence due to many HOF coaches who never do 5 subs at once. I disagree with it. I think it hurts players like Julian and Mav. Both look a lot better when they are with more starters amd have a set role. If you agree with Tubby and that he does that, no problem, but then you are essentially saying guys like coach K are not good coaches because they don't do the 5 subs at once. Tubby has made the adjustment lately, and I agree with it. It has helped a lot in my opinion.

IMO, if Julian got the playing time he would be putting up very good numbers. He proved it last year. He didn't forget how to play basketball. You are correct, maybe he lost some confidence, but even though it was PSU I believe he can still play at a high level.
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I like welch he is crafty. He is good at controlling tempo IMO, probably the best on the team at controlling tempo. The problem with welch is he can't defend anyone this year. He chases constantly and really hurts a soft perimeter defense. Mav can get out of control from time to time but he can stay in front of his defender. Both are solid shooters and are better than many claim on gopherhole. I guess it's whatever a person prefers (offense/defense) on who they think is better. I think Mav is more important to this team based in the style we play but I'm never upset when welch is on the floor
 


lakesgopher said:
I like welch he is crafty. He is good at controlling tempo IMO, probably the best on the team at controlling tempo. The problem with welch is he can't defend anyone this year. He chases constantly and really hurts a soft perimeter defense. Mav can get out of control from time to time but he can stay in front of his defender. Both are solid shooters and are better than many claim on gopherhole. I guess it's whatever a person prefers (offense/defense) on who they think is better. I think Mav is more important to this team based in the style we play but I'm never upset when welch is on the floor
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Honestly, I like them both. They both have impressed me in different areas and I think on a team lacking shooting at times, they both deserve some more PT, especially Welch as I believe he is a better shooter than he has shown this year. You don't shoot 45% from 3 in a season by accident.

To me, they are both Big 10 caliber players. I agree with your assesment though for the most part.

Welch is better at running the offense, he is a better passer. Mav, this year, has been a better shooter, but not as good at setting up the offense and creating looks for others.

On D, Mav is better at staying in front of people, but Welch is better at creating turnovers. He has pretty good hands on D and is smart and a little crafty. I think both have shown they can contribute when called upon and both have ended up being solid additions by Tubby.
 

Sure you remember Welch missing FT's because they lost the game, or had a hand in losing the game. Nebraska is a game where he should get some minutes. The Gophers need to shut down the
one guard ( Galego, sp?) which means no zone and put Austin on him. Agree, on JW's defense. He has a habit of turning his head and losing his guy. It is like he is looking to jump the passing lane for steal. So if you play JW you're probably going to give up some on defense. So the question is does he bring enough to the offense to offset that? I don't see Tubby starting him over Coleman, but he might bring him in over Mav as first sub based on a decent game against Penn State. Just don't
Have him shooting FT's last in the game. He would make a cup of coffee nervous.
 

Just a thought here. ...

What the last two games have shown is, when used properly -- playing with 3 or 4 starters -- Ahanmisi and Welch can give the Gophers solid minutes at the guard position. As others have pointed out, it's much easier to look good & contribute when you're playing with some combination of the Big 4 (Hollins x 2, Mbakwe, Williams).
 

Neither Mav, nor Welch can play defense, but Mav gets blown past less often. I've ridden Maverick hard, but he has been one of the players communicating on the offensive end of the floor more recently. Welch has forced way too many awful shots during his career to warrant a significant boost in playing time.
 



Just goes to prove that JW can play Penn St. type teams, but not upper half of BT teams. Good JC player or small college, but not top end. Nothing against him, just not that talent level.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Maverick has been the better shooter. Welch has been the better ball handler and distributor.
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Do you really think Welch would be able to handle the ball and distribute against an Indiana, Michigan, Ohio state, or msu? Because if he could, I would love to see more of him at point and dre at his true position of shooting guard. Keep the starters the same but instead of subbing out the hollins and Coleman for 3 stagnant players that fail to control the game and put points on the board, put Welch in for Coleman and move dre to the 2. Having Welch and mavon the floor together isn't all bad but the more time dre can spend on the court the better and if he plays more shooting guard opposed to always point will save him energy. But I guess one good game from Welch against PSU doesn't prove much...just a thought though.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Just a thought here. ...

What the last two games have shown is, when used properly -- playing with 3 or 4 starters -- Ahanmisi and Welch can give the Gophers solid minutes at the guard position. As others have pointed out, it's much easier to look good & contribute when you're playing with some combination of the Big 4 (Hollins x 2, Mbakwe, Williams).
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It is true that their confidence level can increase when they play with the starters. Unfortunately, this was not the case earlier this year. Several times when Dre was in foul trouble, one of them came in but it was very clear that Mav was a better man out there.

Go Gophers
 

Bigg Robb said:
The reality is, Welch is not Big Ten caliber player. He is very, very slow and has D-2 quickness, at best. Everything he gets on offense is a result of poor defense or wide open looks. He cannot create his own shot and struggles guarding pretty much everyone.

The two passes he had to Rodney last game were not great. The reason the first dunk was so crazy is because he had to go get the lob which was thrown behind him. The one in which Rodney was fouled was probably worse. Fast break, late, behind him and below his waist. Two GREAT plays by Rodney. To give any praise to Welch is ridiculous.

IMO Mav is a MUCH better all-around baller. Plus Mav seems to like to pressure of big shots whereas Welch has the confidence issue.
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So when a guy penetrates into the middle of the lane, allowing other players to get open (lets say Rodney Williams), getting any praise is ridiculous? No the pass wasn't great, but if it weren't for Welch getting into the paint to begin with the dunk would have never happened.

No matter how anyone tries to spin it, Welch had a very good game against Penn St. Yes, I know it's Penn St. and I know it's only one game. I just think he's better than some of you are giving him credit for.
 



gray4heisman said:
Do you really think Welch would be able to handle the ball and distribute against an Indiana, Michigan, Ohio state, or msu? Because if he could, I would love to see more of him at point and dre at his true position of shooting guard. Keep the starters the same but instead of subbing out the hollins and Coleman for 3 stagnant players that fail to control the game and put points on the board, put Welch in for Coleman and move dre to the 2. Having Welch and mavon the floor together isn't all bad but the more time dre can spend on the court the better and if he plays more shooting guard opposed to always point will save him energy. But I guess one good game from Welch against PSU doesn't prove much...just a thought though.
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Last season:

@Indiana: .33 A/T Ratio (1&3) (10 Points on 10 Shots) W - 21 Minutes
Indiana: 0.0 A/T Ratio (0&1) (3 Points on 4 Shots) L - 11 Minutes
@Michigan: 1.5 A/T Ratio (3&2) (11 Points on 7 Shots) L - 27 Minutes
Michigan (BTT): 1.0 (2&2) A/T Ratio (6 Points on 5 Shots) L - 27 Minutes
OSU: 9.0 A/T Ratio (9&1) (11 Points on 6 Shots) L - 33 Minutes
MSU: 2.0 A/T Ratio (8&4) (10 Points on 5 Shots) L - 32 Minutes
@MSU: 2.0 A/T Ratio (4&2) (9 Points on 8 Shots) L - 27 Minutes
 

Trevor mbakwe 5;669862]Last season:

@Indiana: .33 A/T Ratio (1&3) (10 Points on 10 Shots) W - 21 Minutes
Indiana: 0.0 A/T Ratio (0&1) (3 Points on 4 Shots) L - 11 Minutes
@Michigan: 1.5 A/T Ratio (3&2) (11 Points on 7 Shots) L - 27 Minutes
Michigan (BTT): 1.0 (2&2) A/T Ratio (6 Points on 5 Shots) L - 27 Minutes
OSU: 9.0 A/T Ratio (9&1) (11 Points on 6 Shots) L - 33 Minutes
MSU: 2.0 A/T Ratio (8&4) (10 Points on 5 Shots) L - 32 Minutes
@MSU: 2.0 A/T Ratio (4&2) (9 Points on 8 Shots) L - 27 Minutes[/QUOT

Well seeing this I hope that in these next two games we try to get him back in that 15-20+ minute range and see if we can put together our true best line up for the btt/ncaat. Like everyone's saying, if we get hot, watch out.
 

Julian Welch: A very good 3.2% steal%... 2.9 FC/40.
(2.5% and 3.3 for Dre, as a comparison... 2.8%, 3.2 for Ahanmisi)

...and one of the best group of shot blockers in the nation behind him to help.
 


This thread has gone completely downhill. Apparently last BT season was a complete fluke. A d2-caliber player managed to average double digits while shooting a very good effective field goal percentage. Man, I wish I had his luck.
 

bga1 said:
But he didn't come in as 6th man. He came in with 4 other subs. If he would have come in as 6th man I think we might have seen soem better things out of him. My opinion is that Joe should have played about 20 minutes in a lot of games depending upon the opposition. Dre has to be out there 30-35 minutes but you can slide him to the 2 when Welch is out there and Austin over to the 3 with no problem. Joe is tremendous against teams that will run- like Indiana, but has a real tough time against the zone and slow down teams. Welch is the opposite.
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Agreed - it's nearly impossible to judge some of the subs' playing efforts this year, as when they get in there it's nearly always with other subs; and they all drag each other's games down. This is not the way subbing in basketball is meant to be. Welch has proven over two years of being with the team that usually when he is in the game with other starters, he is an adequate sub/role player. None of the #6-10 subs, however, have succeeded during their roles on the #6-10 (or #6-15) squad.

Think about what's been going on over just the past 3 seasons in Tubby's program:
2 years ago Colton Iverson and Devoe Joseph were, at times, relegated to the "2nd team"; Devoe because he was in the doghouse, and Colton because; well who knows why RSIII ever played in front of him. Both of them struggled in that role and left the program. Justin Cobb did the same thing as a 2nd/3rd teamer. These higher-quality players all left the program to look for an opportunity to prove their play. And each of them found it.

1 year ago the following players all looked fairly strong when used along with other 1st teamers, particularly late in the season: Oto Oseniks, Andre Ingram, Julian Welch (looked better earlier in the season than late, though), Eliason.

This season the following players have all showed some very good things when playing with other 1st teamers: Eliason, Mav, Welch, Ingram. Oto's had a rough year, but very few minutes with the upper-tier players. Mo has even made a few plays as of late when surrounded by 1st teamers.

The pattern is obvious, at least to nearly all of us outside the program. What Tubby needs is someone in some position of authority in that program with some brass to look him in the eye and tell him that what he is doing with line-change substitutions is a near colossal failure; and Tubby in turn needs the sense to listen and to swallow his pride to allow his program to succeed.
 



BleedGopher said:
1500: Strong Senior Day performance could mean more time for Julian Welch

"Those guys that we started played extremely well together and they may get the nod" in Wednesday's game against Nebraska," Smith said, adding he hasn't decided yet.

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Strong_Senior_Day_performance_could_mean_more_time_for_Julian_Welch030513

Go Gophers!!
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So he is thinking of starting them again? This is the kind of crap that drives me nuts about Tubby. He never has a plan. The rotations and starters can change from game to game on a whim. Why even say this? It would just create even more confusion and undefined roles as the season ends. We're going to maybe change our lineup now because a few guys looked good against Penn State? It's just mindless like all his interviews. We know our team is mentally unstable, so let's just throw some more crap against the wall.

Seems to me we just beat #1 with Welch not playing a minute, so that worked too.

I don't expect him to start those guys, and I am not as upset as this may sound, just really annoyed. It's just a throwaway comment that sums up the whole season and the way he has handled things.
 

I personally would hope that his play against Penn State wouldn't won't have a huge impact on his playing time. Against better competition in the prior game, Welch earned a DNP-CD. I am not against Welch playing more, but I think the results against Penn State shouldn't be the catalyst for that increase in playing time. We are awfully late in the season to still be considering significant rotation changes.
 

WilliamsArenaGuy said:
So he is thinking of starting them again? This is the kind of crap that drives me nuts about Tubby. He never has a plan. The rotations and starters can change from game to game on a whim. Why even say this? It would just create even more confusion and undefined roles as the season ends. We're going to maybe change our lineup now because a few guys looked good against Penn State? It's just mindless like all his interviews. We know our team is mentally unstable, so let's just throw some more crap against the wall.

Seems to me we just beat #1 with Welch not playing a minute, so that worked too.

I don't expect him to start those guys, and I am not as upset as this may sound, just really annoyed. It's just a throwaway comment that sums up the whole season and the way he has handled things.
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It's basketball! These guys have played ball all their lives and they are D1 basketball players. They know the system, they know how to defend, rebound, set screens, take open shots, when to drive the lane etc.. I'd say RW, TM, Austin and Andre. Playing Ingram at the 4 isn't all that bad, playing welch as a 3rd guard isn't all the bad. It's about what it takes to win the game. Ingram is a better rebounder than Rodney, Welch is a better shooter than Coleman. Rodney is probably better offensively than Ingram and Coleman is a better defender than Welch but like I said, it's about what it takes to win the game. In case you haven't noticed, your coach has won over 500 D1 games plus a national title so he might know a little bit about what it takes to win a game or 2.
 

So you'd change the starting lineup with two games to go then? And put Andre Hollins on the bench? Because that is what he suggested might happen. That is what this is addressing.

But you're right. Tubby's a more accomplished coach than me. You got me on that one. Now why don't you go back and address the actual comment. Or better yet go away. After all you are notagopherfan.
 

Tubby says he is going to change the lineup every week and he never does.
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
Tubby says he is going to change the lineup every week and he never does.
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Exactly. Settle down folks, enjoy the ride. We've had pretty much the same starting lineup the entire season.
 

Rayno: Welch and Ingram could start vs. Nebraska

Blog Post by: Amelia Rayno http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/195487521.html
March 5, 2013 - 10:09 PM

What was meant to be simply an honor to this year's seniors has turned into the Gophers' potential new starting lineup as they barrel toward the NCAA tournament.

On Saturday against Penn State, Minnesota coach Tubby Smith threw out a special starting five in ode to "Senior Day" -- all four seniors started, including Julian Welch and Andre Ingram, who have come off the bench all season.

Now, after watching that group's success -- albeit against basement-dweller Penn State -- Smith is perhaps ready to give it a try again.

"Those guys that we started played extremely well together, so they may get the nod tomorrow," Smith said. "I haven’t really decided yet.. But I like the way Julian played – seven assists, no turnovers. He really defended. We were able to shut down their best players in [D.J] Newbill and [Jermaine] Marshall, and the reason was that we probably had our best defensive team on the court. Andre Ingram is one of our better, if not our best post defender. He’s probably a pretty heady player in that area."

Smith praised the ultimate size of the lineup around Trevor Mbakwe as well, noting that it gave Rodney Williams the freedom to work more from the perimeter -- where the forward spends lot of time anyway. The coach also liked the spark he got from Joe Coleman -- who had stuggled offensively until the Penn State game, when the sophomore went off for 12 points in 13 minutes -- off the bench.

The real issue would be that in that lineup, Andre Hollins, often referred to as the leader of the team, would be a reserve. On Saturday, Austin Hollins was the lone non-senior to start with the bunch. Smith has been using Andre off the ball a lot more in attempt to re-energize the other things the point guard does well, like, for instance score, an aspect that has been up-and-down for the sophomore. But bringing him off the bench is a different story.

"Dre is our leading scorer and probably our best all-around player, so it’s tough to keep a guy like him out of the lineup," Smith said.

Other notes from tonight's media access:

Smith has been dealing with a bad sore throat last week and early this week, staying home sick for most of Monday. Smith was back on Tuesday, though, saying that after a few rounds of antibiotics and steroids over the last couple days, he's feeling better.

Elliott Eliason seems to have picked up the bug, and at a bad time as Nebraska is a home-coming for the Chadron, Neb. native. He had a sore throat on Tuesday. "It's going around," he said.

If Welch does start, it will be a surprise to him. "[Coach] hasn’t said anything to me," he said. At the same time, the senior who was a starter a year ago would welcome it, saying he enjoyed his first start of the year on Saturday. "I was way more comfortable," he said. "It felt more like last year, so it was definitely a good experience ... It was a little weird, but it was a good weird."

Count Mbakwe as a fan of the Gophers' recent offensive adjustments -- Smith has basically simplified Minnesota's half-court and made a return to the flex offense that the team used successfully a year ago in the Indiana game. "Coach has been great," Mbakwe said. "I know he went to the blackboard and said ‘How can we improve offensively?’ We went through a stretch where it felt like it was hard for us to score 30 points in games. Lately we were able to score more points."

Mbakwe said his recent proliferation inside is a blend of those changes plus him making an effort to call for the ball more and aggressively go to the hoop once he has it. "I think previously, I was only shooting four or five times a game," he said. "And I made put more emphasis on myself to just be more aggressive and getting more of a feel during games. And part of it has been the change in offense and getting the ball more inside. We’ve been working the high-low to me and Elliott."


© 2011 Star Tribune
 

On a side-note, I like how Welch talked about going to the gym for more practice.
"When things weren't looking good for me, I went to the gym to get extra work in, or I went to the weight room."
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Funny, I thought the Gophers had no practice facility to access based upon comments from the GH. Perhaps the kids can go in and get some extra work in after all. Who'd of thought...
 

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