Weber till the end?

[Silvio]

The big issue with Weber is it appears that players (Gray, Decker) around him make Weber better rather than Weber making the players around him better.

 

[Rosemountian]

Gray needs to get snaps at QB but if you think Gray playing 100% of the QB snaps is going to change our win/loss record then you haven't been paying much attention to how the season has been going.

Never said it did. I said that Brew needs to get to 6-6 to save his job with Weber. I said getting to 4 or 5 wins after a QB change would have a chance to save his job if the younger QB looked like a stud doing it.

With Weber as the QB
This team has a 0% chance at winning 6 games.
5% chance of winning 5
10% chance of winning 4
35% chance of winning 3
40% chance of winning 2
10% chance of winning 1

With someone else as the QB, no one really knows how many they would win. Weber's QB play has been so bad, I doubt a QB change would hurt too much (maybe a game). But the rest of the team is so bad, if a new QB came in and played great, I don't think it could gain them more than a game of what they'd have done otherwise.

My point is this, Brewster is gone if they win 4-5 games with Weber as the QB in the Iowa game.
If they win 4-5 games with someone else starting at QB by the end(a young guy who looks like he has potential), there is a slight chance Brew could survive.

 

[Rosemountian]

The team leader and face of the program is generally the starting QB. While coaches have said he gives us the best chance to win, it makes me question there evalualtion of the talent. Weber was a dual threat coming out of high school, not as talented as Gray. But when he became a threat in the backfield along with a legitimate running back threat. When Weber was restrained from running and made a pocket passer there was no threat. Think Juice Williams with Rashard Mendenhall. Without Rashard, Juice was fair to midland. And the same can be said of Weber, with one caveat, we have no running back like Rashard. Maybe, Maybe Lamonte is the answer. He needs to be ready for Gray. Then maybe we have two threats. Right now maybe 1. And how hard is it stop 1 option.

2 things
1) Weber is not, and never was, remotely close to Juice Williams as a runner. He was an average runner at best. After the knee injury, he has not ran well at all. He has dropped to the point where most people would rather have him never run, because of his fumbling problem.

2) You have lamonte Edwards Wayy overrated. He is not a top 4 running back on this team (maybe not even top 5). Eskridge, Bennett, Kirkwood and Hoese are all better than him (3 will be back next year). I don't really know who is better between he and the other freshman (who is redshirting also). Just cause the kid is from Minnesota, doesn't mean he should be playing.

 

[Rosemountian]

It just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it?

Statistically, the Gophers have one of the worst defenses in the NATION, giving up a nation's WORST 6.4 yards per carry; The games against USD and NIU were decided by 2-3 plays either way...


..... and yet folks still want to pin the 1-3 record on Weber?? There is no POSSIBLE way these guys are watching the games. Weber misses open receivers. Really? No kidding? Watch any game on Sunday afternoon, NFL QB's miss open receivers all the time, including Aaron Rodgers last night who missed at least half a dozen and he's supposed to be one of the best in the league. Favre is a HOF'er and he hasn't missed open receivers this year? Pull your head out.

Weber hasn't been perfect by any stretch but he's about reason #11 on the list of why the Gophers lost a couple games they should have won.

He is not bad because he has a bad completion percentage. He is bad because he leaves plays on the field. He doesn't hit the downfield throws (one of the worst deep balls in the conference). He misses on easy throws (did you catch that quick screen to Gray). He turns the ball over. He takes sacks that he doesn't have to take (no internal clock or pocket awareness). He telegraphs his throws (leading to turnovers). He can't read half the field (normally the complaint is when the QB can't read the whole field). Need I go on?

If QB play was all about stats, then the best 2 QB's in gopher history would be Adam Weber and Brian Cupito. Tell me you don't believe that. Aside from the turnovers, Weber is bad because of the plays he leaves on the field, not the ones he actually makes.

You are correct in saying he is not the only problem. But he is a major problem. How do the USD and NIU games go differently if he is able to read the field and covert 1st drive FG's into TD's? The answer: The games go very differently.
I would currently rank the gophers problems like this
1) Lining up on defense
2) DE play
3) OLB play
4) Secondary play
5) QB play (Weber)

 

[josh087]

With Weber as the QB
This team has a 0% chance at winning 6 games.
5% chance of winning 5
10% chance of winning 4
35% chance of winning 3
40% chance of winning 2
10% chance of winning 1

I agree - Gray needs to play more, and I also agree with you he could be the only thing that can possibly save brew -

But good grief, how on earth did you come to these ridiculous statistical guesses? And why do you include them? There is no need to. You made your point already...throwing out these baseless numbers only takes away from your stance. I actually started laughing when I read it.

It is just like a guy last year that claimed there were five H.S. coaches that could put together a better gameplan than Brew & Co. While I think Brew & Co. are far from the best game-planners out there, there is no way to prove this argument, let alone the fact that the guy had no basis for even evaluating any coaches to be able to formulate an argument for it. He just made it up to try to seem more valid. I hate when people used made up stats to bolster an argument.

 

[Silvio]

He is not bad because he has a bad completion percentage. He is bad because he leaves plays on the field. He doesn't hit the downfield throws (one of the worst deep balls in the conference). He misses on easy throws (did you catch that quick screen to Gray). He turns the ball over. He takes sacks that he doesn't have to take (no internal clock or pocket awareness). He telegraphs his throws (leading to turnovers). He can't read half the field (normally the complaint is when the QB can't read the whole field). Need I go on?

If QB play was all about stats, then the best 2 QB's in gopher history would be Adam Weber and Brian Cupito. Tell me you don't believe that. Aside from the turnovers, Weber is bad because of the plays he leaves on the field, not the ones he actually makes.

You are correct in saying he is not the only problem. But he is a major problem. How do the USD and NIU games go differently if he is able to read the field and covert 1st drive FG's into TD's? The answer: The games go very differently.

+1

 

[Rosemountian]

I agree - Gray needs to play more, and I also agree with you he could be the only thing that can possibly save brew -

But good grief, how on earth did you come to these ridiculous statistical guesses? And why do you include them? There is no need to. You made your point already...throwing out these baseless numbers only takes away from your stance. I actually started laughing when I read it.

It is just like a guy last year that claimed there were five H.S. coaches that could put together a better gameplan than Brew & Co. There is no way to prove this argument, let alone the fact that the guy had no basis for even evaluating anything to be able to formulate an argument for it. I hate when people used made up stats to bolster an argument.

Cause not only is this thread on Adam Weber/Tim Brewster...but it is also about the rest of the season.
That way I don't have to post in another thread about how many games I think they will win.
Wasn't really to bolster an argument. As my argument was the Gray should be the QB if Brew wants to save his job and my statement was that I don't really know how he would affect W-L. I did say I don't think it would affect more than one game a way or the other, but that we wouldn't really know.

 

[josh087]

He doesn't hit the downfield throws (one of the worst deep balls in the conference)

Huh?

His deep balls are actually halfway decent. Those seem to be the only passes we complete (almost all of our TD passes this year).

His problem is that he can't throw a pass under 10 yards.

 

[Silvio]

I think that contributes to the frustration with Weber, the shorter the pass the less accurate he becomes.

 

[Rosemountian]

Huh?

His deep balls are actually halfway decent. Those seem to be the only passes we complete (almost all of our TD passes this year).

His problem is that he can't throw a pass under 10 yards.

His WR's have saved his butt many a time in his career. I haven't broken down the film or anything, but I would guess that over 70% of his completions of over 20 yards are either Yards after catch or catch in traffic related. How many times in his first 3 seasons was Decker open by 3 steps but he had to comeback to an underthrown ball and make a great catch over the doubleteam? The only deepball I have seen this year that was a good deepball was McKnights play against USC (that was a GREAT ball). Many of his throws are late coming out of his hand, and that is why they end up being underthrown. He is indecisive and inconsistent.

 

[monk10]

If I understand what you are saying is that Weber leaves too many plays on the field, but what I'm not sure is if you are saying Gray wouldn't leave plays on the field? At this point in time the only way we are winning is if our offense makes a leap in converting possessions into TD's, or we have a big turnaround on defense. Either way you are also saying Weber has one of the worst down field throws in the Big Ten, and I'm making an inference that this is part of the problem of leaving plays on the field. However one of Gray's understood flaws is his accuracy past 15 yards. The Gray supporters are willing to give up on this because he will provide a needed threat in our rushing attack, the ability to get to the edge. In addition the Weber haters are in general much more appreciative of his down field throwing but hate that he doesn't set his feet well on the short throws. However, your logic isn't around the limitation in our run game but our ability to stretch the field. In that it seems you are hoping that Gray is more accurate then Weber, and therefore affects the winning %.

Is that an accurate summary of your thoughts?

 

[goldengophers]

If I understand what you are saying is that Weber leaves too many plays on the field, but what I'm not sure is if you are saying Gray wouldn't leave plays on the field? At this point in time the only way we are winning is if our offense makes a leap in converting possessions into TD's, or we have a big turnaround on defense. Either way you are also saying Weber has one of the worst down field throws in the Big Ten, and I'm making an inference that this is part of the problem of leaving plays on the field. However one of Gray's understood flaws is his accuracy past 15 yards. The Gray supporters are willing to give up on this because he will provide a needed threat in our rushing attack, the ability to get to the edge. In addition the Weber haters are in general much more appreciative of his down field throwing but hate that he doesn't set his feet well on the short throws. However, your logic isn't around the limitation in our run game but our ability to stretch the field. In that it seems you are hoping that Gray is more accurate then Weber, and therefore affects the winning %.

Is that an accurate summary of your thoughts?

I think the whole point is that the Gophers have nothing to lose at this point (it cannot get any worse), lets get actual game experience for the next QB of this team. Wins mean nothing to this team at this point as we are not going to go to a bowl and we do not need to try to get in the Little Cesars $5 Ticket and $5 Pizza Bowl.

 

[Section2]

It just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it?

Statistically, the Gophers have one of the worst defenses in the NATION, giving up a nation's WORST 6.4 yards per carry; The games against USD and NIU were decided by 2-3 plays either way...


..... and yet folks still want to pin the 1-3 record on Weber?? There is no POSSIBLE way these guys are watching the games. Weber misses open receivers. Really? No kidding? Watch any game on Sunday afternoon, NFL QB's miss open receivers all the time, including Aaron Rodgers last night who missed at least half a dozen and he's supposed to be one of the best in the league. Favre is a HOF'er and he hasn't missed open receivers this year? Pull your head out.

Weber hasn't been perfect by any stretch but he's about reason #11 on the list of why the Gophers lost a couple games they should have won.

Yes, he has completed a high percentage of his overall passes, but in the first half, when the games have been in doubt, he's at about 50%. Our slow starts put lots of pressure on our young defense. Weber is supposed to be the #1 strength of this team. Our defense was supposed to struggle. Fans are frustrated. Now, when you say our defense is worse than Weber, YES, it is. No one disagrees. But comparing how they SHOULD be playing, and how they ARE playing, Weber is badly underperforming our defense. Teams are loading up the box. We are getting great protection. This offense is DESIGNED to complete a very high percentage of passes. And he is missing receivers, and making poor decisions. 50% in the first half is abysmal. He's not playing well. Our drives always seem to stall and he's been very poor in the red zone. 13 points at half against USD and NIU is not good enough. Garbage time stats should be discounted.

 

[Rosemountian]

That is a completely inaccurate summary of my thoughts.
I don't think Gray would be a better passer, short or long, than Weber currently is.
I do think Gray would be a better runner than Weber (but not enough to greatly influence the record).
I don't think there is any way this team gets to 6 wins.

This is my point I made in the OP:
With a senior QB, Brew probably needs 6 wins to save his job.
With a sophomore (or younger QB), he could save his job with a sub.500 record if the team/QB looked to be improving as the season went on.
Will Brew switch QBs? Probably not
Should Brew switch QBs? If he wants to have any chance at saving his job. Cause I don't care how bad Gray is, with Weber he has almost 0 chance of getting back to .500.

 

[monk10]

I don't deny your logic of us getting back to .500. However the reality is it isn't b/c of Weber it is just b/c in general the Gophers don't go 5-3 in the Big Ten very often.

However on the flip side my belief is that if you are going to insert a young QB (especially one that didn't win the job outright) you better be able to protect him with a strong running game and a efficient passing game. However, because our defense is so porous our strategy on offense is to hold the ball, as much it is to move the ball down field. The learning mistakes Gray would most likely have would put our defense on the field more often, and that isn't something anyone wants to see. Therefore the probability of us going 0-8 in the Big Ten increases by a magnitude that would ensure Brewsters demise.

The reality is Brewster is a Dead Man Walking until he starts winning games. Winning in this case is keeping your offense on the field, and he is trying to do that by keeping his best players on the field, which happen to be Weber and Gray.

 

[BoogeyMan]

This is my first post in the football forum, but I finally had to say something about Weber. I do not get all of you idiots who come on here and rip Weber week after week, game after game. I am a Weber supported, always have been because I think he is our best QB. I'll admit he has had some bad games, but so has the entire team.

All of you morons who keep saying that Weber just isn't a winner, are you kidding me? Obviously none of you have ever played football, the Quarterback in football is the most vital position,and will always recieve too much credit for a win and too much blame for a loss, but how many games can you honestly say Weber has lost for us? Not a ton. He plays on a terrible team, with a terrible coach and administration, with a terrible o-line and terrible playmakers around him. He has always been a stand up person and leader. I've read numerous post on here about how he is not well liked on the team, is a terrible leader, etc. Who do you get this information from? I am a former athlete at the U and pretty connected around the program and have heard nothing but praise from the coaches, other players and administration.

He is certaintly not the greatest QB ever, but do you honestly think Gray is going to be much better? Why do you think he came to the U in the first place? He obviously wasn't that highly sought out by other schools. He will not be our savior. He might be big, fast and have a good arm, but I have certaintly never seen him throw with an accuracy. I fully understand that people want to see Gray get some snaps in a season that is all but lost, but Gray won't help us win anymore games and all these terrible losses are not Adam's fault.

You losers that come on here blaming losses on Weber know nothing about football. You just know that is is easier to blame the QB than to look at the million other faults this team has. I believe i just read somewhere that Weber just became the 9th QB in the history of the BIG TEN to throw for over 9,000 yards. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.

 

[goldengophers]

I don't deny your logic of us getting back to .500. However the reality is it isn't b/c of Weber it is just b/c in general the Gophers don't go 5-3 in the Big Ten very often.

However on the flip side my belief is that if you are going to insert a young QB (especially one that didn't win the job outright) you better be able to protect him with a strong running game and a efficient passing game. However, because our defense is so porous our strategy on offense is to hold the ball, as much it is to move the ball down field. The learning mistakes Gray would most likely have would put our defense on the field more often, and that isn't something anyone wants to see. Therefore the probability of us going 0-8 in the Big Ten increases by a magnitude that would ensure Brewsters demise.

The reality is Brewster is a Dead Man Walking until he starts winning games. Winning in this case is keeping your offense on the field, and he is trying to do that by keeping his best players on the field, which happen to be Weber and Gray.

Don't knock it till you try it first. There is no harm in putting Gray in for a game and seeing how it goes, if it goes so bad you stick Weber back in. Michigan could have stuck with Forcier and claimed that their defense needed to improve but Rich Rod made a move that has his team undefeated and a QB in the top 3 for the Heisman... and their defense still sucks!

P.S. Forcier also threw for the same number of touchdowns, a greater comp %, fewer interceptions and a higher passing rating than Weber in 2009.

 

[monk10]

They had an open competition in camp and Forcier lost, and ended up as the 3rd string. We had an open competition in camp and Weber won. I think that is a major difference.

When we are mathematically eliminated for a bowl game, I have no problems with putting in the young guys. Until then I'd rather go with the guys that are winning starting roles.

 

[goldengophers]

They had an open competition in camp and Forcier lost, and ended up as the 3rd string. We had an open competition in camp and Weber won. I think that is a major difference.

When we are mathematically eliminated for a bowl game, I have no problems with putting in the young guys. Until then I'd rather go with the guys that are winning starting roles.

Sorry if I don't trust Brewster's judgement for all we know Gray outplayed Weber throughout camp and still lost the competition. Also, I don't care about crap bowl games!

 

[dpodoll68]

All of you morons who keep saying that Weber just isn't a winner, are you kidding me?

Career record: 15-27 (.357). Color it any way you want - it is a fact.

Obviously none of you have ever played football

Clearly, one needs to have played football in order to have an opinion on the sport. I always love that argument.

(P.S. Most, if not nearly all, of the male posters here have played competitive, organized football at some level.)

He has always been a stand up person and leader.

That's great. We're not trying to win a Mr. Congeniality contest. We're trying to win football games. I wouldn't care if our QB was the biggest prick on the face of the earth, as long as we're winning and putting butts in the seats. A.J. Pierzynski is the biggest a-hole in baseball, and I loved him while he was a Twin. Now I'd like to punch him in the face.

but do you honestly think Gray is going to be much better? Why do you think he came to the U in the first place? He obviously wasn't that highly sought out by other schools.

I agree, scholarship offers from Iowa, Michigan St., and Oregon (among many others) are to be dismissed as nothing. (Nice insinuation, by the way, that the U only takes other school's leftovers. If you really are an M man, which I doubt, you should be embarrassed and ashamed of yourself for that comment.)

I believe i just read somewhere that Weber just became the 9th QB in the history of the BIG TEN to throw for over 9,000 yards.

That would probably mean something if they handed out wins and losses based on who throws for the most yards.

Who would most football experts place higher on the scale, Montana or Marino? Why do you suppose that is?

Besides racking up meaningless statistics, Weber is also on track to become the losingest QB in the history of the Big Ten, not to mention one of the losingest QBs in the history of Division I football. That's pretty impressive, if you ask me.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Harumph

This is my first post in the football forum, but I finally had to say something about Weber. I do not get all of you idiots who come on here and rip Weber week after week, game after game. I am a Weber supported, always have been because I think he is our best QB. I'll admit he has had some bad games, but so has the entire team.

All of you morons who keep saying that Weber just isn't a winner, are you kidding me? Obviously none of you have ever played football, the Quarterback in football is the most vital position,and will always recieve too much credit for a win and too much blame for a loss, but how many games can you honestly say Weber has lost for us? Not a ton. He plays on a terrible team, with a terrible coach and administration, with a terrible o-line and terrible playmakers around him. He has always been a stand up person and leader. I've read numerous post on here about how he is not well liked on the team, is a terrible leader, etc. Who do you get this information from? I am a former athlete at the U and pretty connected around the program and have heard nothing but praise from the coaches, other players and administration.

He is certaintly not the greatest QB ever, but do you honestly think Gray is going to be much better? Why do you think he came to the U in the first place? He obviously wasn't that highly sought out by other schools. He will not be our savior. He might be big, fast and have a good arm, but I have certaintly never seen him throw with an accuracy. I fully understand that people want to see Gray get some snaps in a season that is all but lost, but Gray won't help us win anymore games and all these terrible losses are not Adam's fault.

You losers that come on here blaming losses on Weber know nothing about football. You just know that is is easier to blame the QB than to look at the million other faults this team has. I believe i just read somewhere that Weber just became the 9th QB in the history of the BIG TEN to throw for over 9,000 yards. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.

Well said. Blunt, but my sentiments exactly.


Here is the one thing that the people calling for Gray can't seem to get a grip on. I posed the question in a thread a week or so ago and nobody had an answer. I'll give it another shot:


Weber is a Mason recruit
Gray is a Brewster recruit


If the competition was EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE, don't you think that Brewster would rather roll with HIS guy and not a guy that he inherited??? You don't think EGO would kick in and he'd rather roll the dice, go with Gray and see what happens?

Why don't you hear ANYBODY with anything to do with the team saying that Gray should be starting? If the team felt that way, why did they vote Weber the team captain for an UNPRECEDENTED third time in a row???

Forget about just Brewster (who is NOT the offensive coordinator); do you really think the entire offensive coaching staff is that f'n dense that they can't tell who gives them the best chance to win? The guys that have seen both QB's in practice, every day, hours a day for the last several years don't know as much as you, sitting at home on your couch?

Say it out loud if it helps you. It makes no sense.


Again, for the last time, you don't think that Brewster would rather sink or swim with HIS guy if things were at all close?

Trust me, I'd love to see Gray as much as the next guy. He would put pressure on opposing defenses that Weber does not and would make the Gophers slightly less predictable. But if you think Brewster is starting Weber simply because of ignorance or some man-crush, you're just plain dense.

 

[dpodoll68]

If the competition was EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE, don't you think that Brewster would rather roll with HIS guy and not a guy that he inherited???

Why do you presume than anything Brewster does makes sense? The guy is about to be fired - clearly his record of doing the right thing with this team is not good.

Why don't you hear ANYBODY with anything to do with the team saying that Gray should be starting?

Yes, teams come out in support of the backup QB all the time. Coaches and players do this all the time. Nothing will rally a team together better than publicly declaring a divided locker room.

If the team felt that way, why did they vote Weber the team captain for an UNPRECEDENTED third time in a row???

As soon as players get to decide playing time, that will have anything to do with anything.

Forget about just Brewster (who is NOT the offensive coordinator); do you really think the entire offensive coaching staff is that f'n dense that they can't tell who gives them the best chance to win?

Yes, that is exactly what I think. They lose a lot - what gives you the notion that they know the best way to win? If they did, wouldn't they, I don't know, WIN more?

Say it out loud if it helps you. It makes no sense.

I agree. Very little about this team or this administration makes any sense.

Again, for the last time, you don't think that Brewster would rather sink or swim with HIS guy if things were at all close?

One would think so, wouldn't they?

But if you think Brewster is starting Weber simply because of ignorance or some man-crush, you're just plain dense.

It's quite simple, really. He's like the great majority of football coaches in that they'd rather be conservative and hold on to their jobs as long as possible rather than let it all hang out and try for greatness. Gray is far more risk-and-reward, and that's why the coaches (even those who are DOA) won't just go for it. That, and they would have no idea how to properly use him.

 

[BoogeyMan]

Dpodoll68-

Football is a team game and for some reason people like you want to put all the blame on Weber. I already admitted he wasn't the greatest QB to walk the earth, hell even to play for the Gophers probably, but he is not the reason this team is losing. I will guarantee you that if Weber was playing for Ohio St, Iowa, Penn St, etc he would have a lot better record. The QBs job is to move the offense, which he does, he can't prevent his Defense from giving up 41 (or whatever they gave up) to South Dakota. The TEAM is terrible, and it isn't all Weber's fault.

Also, my point about Gray coming here was eaxctly that he wasn't going to play anywhere else. I am going to go ahead and assume that they only reason he decided to come to the U was that he thought (probably because the used car salesman that is Brewster) sold him on the idea that he would play right away. If Brew was smart they would have redshirted him last year, and not wasted a year of eligibilty playing behind Weber and this year he could have taken some snaps at receiver and as QB. Now he has three years of starting instead of 2. Also, I am going to go out on a limb and say he won't be any better than Weber has been for us in the coming years.

You're right, maybe you wouldn't have had to play football to have an opinion, but I feel like it certaintly helps to have some background in the sport if you are going to express your opinion. If you do, you would know that Weber is not losing all these games, its the team. When Weber has done a good job in a win, no one wants to give him credit, but when they lose (even when he has a good game) people are asking for his head.

I am a M man, and proud of it. I am a former baseball player. And I've been well connected around the University for a while now. The Gopher football program has never gotten the talent that other teams wants. Case in point, when was the last time they actually kept a top MN kid in state? It's been a while, they all go else where because they know they have a better shot at winning. I would love more than anything to see the Football program suceed, because when they do, every sport (including my gopher baseball team) has life a whole lot better.

Again, I have always been a Weber supporter, I just do not like how poorly he is treated. He deserve his share of the blame, but he gets a lot more grief than he should. I hope I am wrong about Gray and he is a standout, but I just haven't seen it yet. I would love to see him getting some more playing time this year so we can see what we might have next year because this year it lost, but I don't like him having playing time because others think Weber is such a bad QB.

And again, your Marino to Montana comparision is idiotic. Montana played on better teams, with better players around him. Put Marino on the 49'ers and Montana on the Dolphins and see what kind of careers they have. Football is the ultimate team game, one guy cannot win games all by himself, at least not consistanly.

 

[Schnauzer]

More irony... this has been coming up more often, in more threads with each passing week. The Gopher Hole 'bench Weber' drum beat is getting louder. And... it is all happening as Weber has looked better each week (MTSU < South Dakota < USC < N.Ill) while Gray has also steadily improved his production at the wide receiver position at even a greater rate.

At the current pace, by year end Weber will be going 25-25, 500 yards, and 6 touchdowns weekly and Gray will be leaving the program to enter the NFL draft as a receiver after winning the Blitnikoff award... while the Gopher Hole will have to spin off a second website dedicated to the benching of Weber because the original GH kept crashing under all the web hits and activity dedicated to the QB sniping.

And... the team will be 1-11 due to the ACTUAL problems and shortcomings on display each week.

Hey, I'm having a little fun with you here but the attention shown to item 64 on the list of 100 things that could be better with the Gophers does really amaze me.

 

[washgopher]

Weber has been doing an ok job, he's not the real problem. A large part of the problem is leadership and excitement, and based on what you see on the faces and attitudes on the field, Weber not providing that. That's why I'd like to see a half out of Alipate or Gray and at least see if any chemistry comes of it.

 

[ncgo4]

If our defense were better we could measure Webber's performance better. As it is I'm not sure if he's capable or not. i'm not a fan, but neither am I calling for the bench. He's been in a position thanks to the defense where he's had to fill the airwaves in the last 20 minutes or so. We've put up a lot of yards, but many of them are against prevent defenses. Certainly In the first half we have't put anyone away.

I will say that saturday sitting on the 50 yard line, I was never in doubt as to whom he was going to throw the ball. He stares down his receivers and also is very clearly not gifted with an excess of accuracy.

With specific regard to Gray, if we put him under center to whom would he throw with Stoudamire out?

 

[goldengophers]

Weber has been doing an ok job, he's not the real problem. A large part of the problem is leadership and excitement, and based on what you see on the faces and attitudes on the field, Weber not providing that. That's why I'd like to see a half out of Alipate or Gray and at least see if any chemistry comes of it.

Agree. I think in this whole argument one side has been speaking French and the other Spanish and neither is really understanding the other side! I want Gray to get a start not because Adam Weber sucks or has horrible statistics but because we are a team with nothing to lose and Weber is a Senior. Everyone knows Weber was jerked around his entire time here (and could have been much better with more competent coaching), that he's a great guy and his teammates like him darnit but I want to see what is on the horizon for this team. Because Brewster treated the first 4 games as preseason I want him to spend the rest of the year as like the preseason or a period of development. I want to get excited, not about this year but the future, and trying other QB's would help get me excited to watch (see Molinari Effect post).

 

[dpodoll68]

people like you want to put all the blame on Weber

Nope. Never even remotely said that. He is not the only problem, but he is definitely *a* problem. The problem with people like you is that you want to make it all or nothing, when the reality is somewhere in-between.

The TEAM is terrible, and it isn't all Weber's fault.

Nope. Again, I never said that.

Also, my point about Gray coming here was eaxctly that he wasn't going to play anywhere else.

Wow. I don't even know how to fully elucidate the idiocy of this statement. Gray is without question the best player on the Gophers (and it's not even close), and he wouldn't have played anywhere else? You really have a high opinion of your school's football team, don't you?

I am going to go ahead and assume that they only reason he decided to come to the U was that he thought (probably because the used car salesman that is Brewster) sold him on the idea that he would play right away.

You know what they say about assuming, don't you?

If Brew was smart they would have redshirted him last year, and not wasted a year of eligibilty playing behind Weber and this year he could have taken some snaps at receiver and as QB. Now he has three years of starting instead of 2.

I fully agree. Since Weber won't be benched for anything short of homicide, Gray's 2009 season was a waste of a year of eligibility. You won't hear any argument from me on that.

Also, I am going to go out on a limb and say he won't be any better than Weber has been for us in the coming years.

Possibly, but it will be tough to be any worse. Unless the Gophers win 4 or less games next year.

If you do, you would know that Weber is not losing all these games, its the team.

Yes. I NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. However, if you had any background in football, you would know that the guy who has the ball in his hands on 99% of the offensive plays has a disproportionate amount of the responsibility for a win or loss.

The Gopher football program has never gotten the talent that other teams wants. Case in point, when was the last time they actually kept a top MN kid in state?

Wow, you're pretty well-connected. Anthony Jacobs? Matt Garin? Rashede Hageman? Ed Olson? Tommy Olson? Jimmy Gjere? Lamonte Edwards? Peter Westerhaus? Moses Alipate? Shady Salamon? Sam Maresh? Ryan Grant? You're right, no one wanted any of those players.

And again, your Marino to Montana comparision is idiotic. Montana played on better teams, with better players around him. Put Marino on the 49'ers and Montana on the Dolphins and see what kind of careers they have.

No sh*t, Sherlock. That's why you citing Weber's irrelevant statistics was pointless. Marino was a loser and a stat accumulator, just like Weber is. Gray might not be any better, but we'll never know until he gets a chance.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Agree. I think in this whole argument one side has been speaking French and the other Spanish and neither is really understanding the other side! I want Gray to get a start not because Adam Weber sucks or has horrible statistics but because we are a team with nothing to lose and Weber is a Senior. Everyone knows Weber was jerked around his entire time here (and could have been much better with more competent coaching), that he's a great guy and his teammates like him darnit but I want to see what is on the horizon for this team. Because Brewster treated the first 4 games as preseason I want him to spend the rest of the year as like the preseason or a period of development. I want to get excited, not about this year but the future, and trying other QB's would help get me excited to watch (see Molinari Effect post).

Head, meet wall. Okay, let's try simplifying this even further. Forget about Weber. For the most part, THE ENTIRE OFFENSE has not been the problem.

Apparently some folks change the channel to check out another game when the Gophers don't have the ball. Have you seen the defense? Really?

Outside of the USC game, the Gophers have punted 5 times in 3 games. And you think offense is even remotely a problem??? 41 points to South Dakota, and Gray would have made a difference?

Against NIU, they gave up RUNNING plays of 29, 30, 30, 33, 56, and 61 yards. Gray would have made a difference there?

Weber isn't doing a good enough job of leading the defense, "providing leadership and excitement" on that side of the ball? Do you have any idea how LITTLE the offense and defense actually interact on a major college football team?

I am honestly and sincerely at a f'n loss for words. Really.

 

[goldengophers]

Head, meet wall. Okay, let's try simplifying this even further. Forget about Weber. For the most part, THE ENTIRE OFFENSE has not been the problem.

Apparently some folks change the channel to check out another game when the Gophers don't have the ball. Have you seen the defense? Really?

Outside of the USC game, the Gophers have punted 5 times in 3 games. And you think offense is even remotely a problem??? 41 points to South Dakota, and Gray would have made a difference?

Against NIU, they gave up RUNNING plays of 29, 30, 30, 33, 56, and 61 yards. Gray would have made a difference there?

Weber isn't doing a good enough job of leading the defense, "providing leadership and excitement" on that side of the ball? Do you have any idea how LITTLE the offense and defense actually interact on a major college football team?

I am honestly and sincerely at a f'n loss for words. Really.

The defense isn't a part of this argument, its about the starting quarterback but to appease you I will also agree to playing more of the second and third string defense in hopes of overcoming Kevin Cosgrove's defensive gameplan.
Now, I stand by what I said when stating that I want to see what Gray or Alipate can do for that matter. We can also mix it up at running back and go down the depth chart there! JFC!