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FireDaveLee said:
I think they absolutely knew their actions would be talked about, but I think you're giving the EOAA too much credit about what their intent is.
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The reguirement to provide a fair and impartial hearing has nothing to do with the intent of the indivual members of the EOAA. If this was a kangaroo court they will be found out soon enough after the appeal process is completed. Until then none of us knows anything about how the EOAA did their job.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
The reguirement to provide a fair and impartial hearing has nothing to do with the intent of the indivual members of the EOAA. If this was a kangaroo court they will be found out soon enough after the appeal process is completed. Until then none of us knows anything about how the EOAA did their job.
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The appeals process will likely not tell us much. Lawsuits brought by the players will shed sunlight. Hutton seems very sure once the facts are out there it will look very bad for the U. I tend to believe him based on past overreach by EOAA boards around the country.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Absolutely terrifying takes. The EOAA process and procedures are incredibly faulty. These kids deserve better from so-called adults.

Dean, settle down and take a breath. Try to look at things from other than our own biased perspective.
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Not going to happen. My main bias is for the process. The process is fine. I don't think it needs to be fixed. As to my absolute bias against the event, that is most certainly not going to change either. If you are asking me to walk in their shoes, I already have done that. Nobody has given any argument worthy of stating the process has failed, other than to point to 6 students who were suspended for one year. That is not an argument. It is a condition, and not a very harsh condition at that because the promise exists for continued education after the term. At their age, that is not a heavy burden. It just isn't a burden or very harsh. And, it is not the responsibility of the University to do anything other than what they decided. Not every decision is going to bring people cheer.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
I don't ever assume that police always do the right thing. But I also don't criticize them until I have enough evidence to make a reasonable assessment on my own. The large majority of the posters today are automatically assuming the U doesn't have enough evidence to say the players violated the Code of Conduct even though they have seen none of the evidence the U is using to justify their actions. They think the punishment of the players is a hatchet job and many of them are calling for Kaler and the AD to be fired. I have been fighting that battle all day long.
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Maybe some feel that way. But I think most people that not even providing information for those involved is ridiculous. I would be pissed too if my son was suspended and I'm not given a reason as to why. I keep getting no answer but meanwhile my son's name and face is out there in the public as if they are guilty of rape. Seriously, check out social media and comments on national stories about this. People around the country are labeling all 10 of these guys as rapists even though some say they weren't even there.

If they are guilty of breaking the code of conduct, then tell them what they did and why they are suspended. It sounds like Winfield's dad was on campus all day yesterday and got no information.
 


GophersInIowa said:
Maybe some feel that way. But I think most people that not even providing information for those involved is ridiculous. I would be pissed too if my son was suspended and I'm not given a reason as to why. I keep getting no answer but meanwhile my son's name and face is out there in the public as if they are guilty of rape. Seriously, check out social media and comments on national stories about this. People around the country are labeling all 10 of these guys as rapists even though some say they weren't even there.

If they are guilty of breaking the code of conduct, then tell them what they did and why they are suspended. It sounds like Winfield's dad was on campus all day yesterday and got no information.
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My suspect that Jr. never gave Dad his copy of the report. Dad has no right to the copy of the report. He was not involved.
 

Dean S said:
This board appears to be over representative of the male, elitist opinion that 10 very intimidating guys in a bedroom do not represent an existential threat to a single, smaller, drunk woman.
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And this is the problem. You're like a lot of the general public and are assuming all 10 were suspended because they were in the room that night. There's some saying that not all 10 were in the room or even at the apartment.

Like I just mentioned in the above post, look around on social media. It's all about these "10 guys who raped a girl". People continue to make assumptions without knowing the facts. There are many reasons why someone may be recommended to be suspended after this investigation. Yet it has been assumed by many that it was a 10 person rape.

And, what kind of person videos this brutality for later viewing? The whole thing is morally corrupt.
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I certainly don't understand it and it isn't my thing. With that said:
1. It appears the video tapes could be a big reason why a few guys aren't in jail right now. It showed what appeared to be consensual sex. That doesn't mean it couldn't have turned into nonconsensual. It just means this shows evidence that favored the players.
2. Believe it or not, there are woman that enjoy this. I heard of this happening once at my school (many men with one woman) and it was the woman who initiated it. Again, not my thing at all. But it is a slippery slope to start condemning these kinds of sexual acts just because we don't agree with it. Obviously if not consensual is different, but some people seem to be saying just having group sex alone is reason to be suspended.
 

Dean S said:
Railroaded? Really? With 2000 other venues for a college education, I would assume my daughters or sons would have the right to transfer their credits and move on. There are no rights that would be violated in that sense. If I felt they were being abused, I would counsel them to go where they are more wanted.
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Seriously? Your response a perceived injustice against your child that will follow your him or her around for the rest of their lives would be to crawl away and move on? I don't believe you...stop embarrassing yourself.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Maybe some feel that way. But I think most people that not even providing information for those involved is ridiculous. I would be pissed too if my son was suspended and I'm not given a reason as to why. I keep getting no answer but meanwhile my son's name and face is out there in the public as if they are guilty of rape. Seriously, check out social media and comments on national stories about this. People around the country are labeling all 10 of these guys as rapists even though some say they weren't even there.

If they are guilty of breaking the code of conduct, then tell them what they did and why they are suspended. It sounds like Winfield's dad was on campus all day yesterday and got no information.
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I guarantee you that the players and their families already know what the evidence is that the U used against them. Every one of the players was interviewed during the investigation process and given an opportunity to tell their side of the story. They just don't agree with conclusions of the EOAA and their attorney is not going to publicly disclose any evidence that implicates his clients in the violation of the Code of Conduct. The only information we are going to get from the attorney will be to help his clients.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
The appeals process will likely not tell us much. Lawsuits brought by the players will shed sunlight. Hutton seems very sure once the facts are out there it will look very bad for the U. I tend to believe him based on past overreach by EOAA boards around the country.
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IT will look bad for the U because underage football recruits were on the premise of the described incident on 09/03/16, some had contact with the alleged victim, and those recruits even if not condoned or sponsored were on the University of Minnesota official visit that the University football department and AD paid for. Hutton and the alleged victim have big time ammo to hammer the U and the AD for large settlements even if the alleged actions of players violated this code of conduct thing.
 


UpnorthGo4 said:
Everyone of the players was interviewed during the investigation process and given an opportunity to tell their side of the story.
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Where was this reported? Do you know for a fact that all 10 players were interviewed by the EoAA? Were the players and witnesses under oath with perjury penalties? One issue during the investigation was the integrity of the accuser and inconsistencies including her taking the 5th during the TRO hearing? Was this information included? You don't know and are just making stuff up.

I don't know either but aren't pretending to know.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Seriously? Your response a perceived injustice against your child that will follow your him or her around for the rest of their lives would be to crawl away and move on? I don't believe you...stop embarrassing yourself.
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Really, I was thinking about the woman. If my son's had been in this situation, the same rules apply. It does not follow them around. The records are sealed as to the reason for the suspension. In fact, I believe it never gets recorded on the transcript. So, why would they have a need to worry? Really, prove to me that there is a real concern here about continuing with life. Show me the real harm.
 



gopherdudepart2 said:
IT will look bad for the U because underage football recruits were on the premise of the described incident on 09/03/16, some had contact with the alleged victim, and those recruits even if not condoned or sponsored were on the University of Minnesota official visit that the University football department and AD paid for. Hutton and the alleged victim have big time ammo to hammer the U and the AD for large settlements even if the alleged actions of players violated this code of conduct thing.
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And this (among many other reasons) is why in the end, Kaler, Coyle & Claeys are all gone.
 

Dean S said:
My suspect that Jr. never gave Dad his copy of the report. Dad has no right to the copy of the report. He was not involved.
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Maybe. Or it could be that he read the report and thinks his son is unfairly being punished.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
I guarantee you that the players and their families already know what the evidence is that the U used against them. Every one of the players was interviewed during the investigation process and given an opportunity to tell their side of the story. They just don't agree with conclusions of the EOAA and their attorney is not going to publicly disclose any evidence that implicates his clients in the violation of the Code of Conduct. The only information we are going to get from the attorney will be to help his clients.
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How do you know this? Maybe it is true but there have been cases like this around the country where the accused was not even interviewed.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Where was this reported? Do you know for a fact that all 10 players were interviewed by the EoAA? Were the players and witnesses under oath with perjury penalties? One issue during the investigation was the integrity of the accuser and inconsistencies including her taking the 5th during the TRO hearing? Was this information included? You don't know and are just making stuff up.

I don't know either but aren't pretending to know.
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Does it matter? That is a more pertinent question than you are willing to consider. If the woman takes the 5th, then there is a gap in her testimony and that is considered like any other lack of evidence. Are you insinuating that a lack of evidence resulted in an injustice, without evidence of an injustice? Please describe the injustice here. What exactly is unjust? Is it the one year suspension? That is hardly a concern. It is hardly a penalty. Kids with bad grades get this penalty and they don't hire lawyers to protest it. It is a consequential administrative penalty of no concern to anybody outside of the U. It has no real level of harm because the degree may still be granted afterward. Let me repeat that because it has a nice ring to it. There is no harm because a degree may still be earned afterward. Ahh, that is the essence of why it is not a harsh penalty.
 

Dean S said:
Really, I was thinking about the woman. If my son's had been in this situation, the same rules apply. It does not follow them around. The records are sealed as to the reason for the suspension. In fact, I believe it never gets recorded on the transcript. So, why would they have a need to worry? Really, prove to me that there is a real concern here about continuing with life. Show me the real harm.
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You are acting a fool...and that is sad. Every players name has been published in the newspaper related to this story. Ever heard of Google? Maybe you aren't in a position of authority and never had hire/fire responsibilities, but yes we who are use social media, google, etc when making hiring decisions.

You think a kid like AWjr isn't going to followed by this if he gets a shot at the NFL? You think Pepsi is going to want his endorsement a little less over this fiasco?

And Expulsion of Violating the Schools Code of Conduct is recorded on their permanent transcript.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
You are acting a fool...and that is sad. Every players name has been published in the newspaper related to this story. Ever heard of Google? Maybe you aren't in a position of authority and never had hire/fire responsibilities, but yes we who are use social media, google, etc when making hiring decisions.

You think a kid like AWjr isn't going to followed by this if he gets a shot at the NFL? You think Pepsi is going to want his endorsement a little less over this fiasco?

And Expulsion of Violating the Schools Code of Conduct is recorded on their permanent transcript.
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Exactly. I think we all agree that IF something illegal happened, the guilty parties should be charged and expelled/suspended.

But what about the players who might be innocent? There names are being trashed through the national media, and they are either suspended or expelled from school. Just transferring to a school doesn't make everything all peachy and OK again. Those players are fighting for their futures, their name sake, and their reputations. People are already labeling them as rapists, and no one actually knows what happened. If I was in their position and was innocent, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to be cleared as well.
 

Dean S said:
Does it matter? That is a more pertinent question than you are willing to consider. If the woman takes the 5th, then there is a gap in her testimony and that is considered like any other lack of evidence. Are you insinuating that a lack of evidence resulted in an injustice, without evidence of an injustice? Please describe the injustice here. What exactly is unjust? Is it the one year suspension? That is hardly a concern. It is hardly a penalty. Kids with bad grades get this penalty and they don't hire lawyers to protest it. It is a consequential administrative penalty of no concern to anybody outside of the U. It has no real level of harm because the degree may still be granted afterward. Let me repeat that because it has a nice ring to it. There is no harm because a degree may still be earned afterward. Ahh, that is the essence of why it is not a harsh penalty.
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On what ****ing planet does a year long suspension or an expulsion from a large public university, the disruption of their education, financial aid, life and home not a big deal? You are being a troll of the highest order.
 

Gopherocious said:
Exactly. I think we all agree that IF something illegal happened, the guilty parties should be charged and expelled/suspended.

But what about the players who might be innocent? There names are being trashed through the national media, and they are either suspended or expelled from school. Just transferring to a school doesn't make everything all peachy and OK again. Those players are fighting for their futures, their name sake, and their reputations. People are already labeling them as rapists, and no one actually knows what happened. If I was in their position and was innocent, I'd be fighting tooth and nail to be cleared as well.
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Regarding these players and their reputations- correct me if I'm wrong- but weren't all the initial media leaks, that are the basis for so much of this judgement in the public sphere, all initiated by either Hutton or one of those that Hutton is representing? Who is causing all this reputation harm, then?
 

Dean S said:
Really, I was thinking about the woman. If my son's had been in this situation, the same rules apply. It does not follow them around. The records are sealed as to the reason for the suspension. In fact, I believe it never gets recorded on the transcript. So, why would they have a need to worry? Really, prove to me that there is a real concern here about continuing with life. Show me the real harm.
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Do a google search of any of these players names. Yep, you're right it doesn't follow them around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

citywok said:
Regarding these players and their reputations- correct me if I'm wrong- but weren't all the initial media leaks, that are the basis for so much of this judgement in the public sphere, all initiated by either Hutton or one of those that Hutton is representing? Who is causing all this reputation harm, then?
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I was thinking the same thing. Hutton and one of the player's parents have probably given the public the most information about the players. I don't think Hutton is fairing well in the court of public opinion.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
You are acting a fool...and that is sad. Every players name has been published in the newspaper related to this story. Ever heard of Google? Maybe you aren't in a position of authority and never had hire/fire responsibilities, but yes we who are use social media, google, etc when making hiring decisions.

You think a kid like AWjr isn't going to followed by this if he gets a shot at the NFL? You think Pepsi is going to want his endorsement a little less over this fiasco?

And Expulsion of Violating the Schools Code of Conduct is recorded on their permanent transcript.
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I called the registrars office about suspensions. They do not get recorded on transcripts. I think that I am not a fool as I had the facts correct. As for the poor lad loosing out on a Pepsi deal, that is pure speculation. Did a deal appear and was it lost?
 

MNGoldenGophers1 said:
I was thinking the same thing. Hutton and one of the player's parents have probably given the public the most information about the players. I don't think Hutton is fairing well in the court of public opinion.
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Yes, Hutton is the one creating the harm. He is fighting this in the press, always a weak sauce case that way. If harm was done, it was not done by the U.
 

Dean S said:
Does it matter? ... It is a consequential administrative penalty of no concern to anybody outside of the U. It has no real level of harm because the degree may still be granted afterward. Let me repeat that because it has a nice ring to it. There is no harm because a degree may still be earned afterward. Ahh, that is the essence of why it is not a harsh penalty.
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This is how power hungry arrogant vindictive bureaucrats think and act. May you run into one soon.
 

Dean S said:
Really, I was thinking about the woman. If my son's had been in this situation, the same rules apply. It does not follow them around. The records are sealed as to the reason for the suspension. In fact, I believe it never gets recorded on the transcript. So, why would they have a need to worry? Really, prove to me that there is a real concern here about continuing with life. Show me the real harm.
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Wow.

A new leader emerges in the GopherHole naive division.
 

UST_Gopher said:
Do a google search of any of these players names. Yep, you're right it doesn't follow them around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Whose responsibility is that? The University did not publish names. And, what jobs are they trying to get? What industry? Some things hang more heavily than others. And, it is not true that all employers do google searches.
 

Dean S said:
I called the registrars office about suspensions. They do not get recorded on transcripts. I think that I am not a fool as I had the facts correct. As for the poor lad loosing out on a Pepsi deal, that is pure speculation. Did a deal appear and was it lost?
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You're missing the point, Dean. Please tell me you don't honestly believe any hiring manager or admissions counselor around the country doesn't do a simple google search. If you're going to claim that this is all because of the attorney and the information he released, any quality reporter or semi-informed mind could generate a quality conclusion as to the reasoning behind the expulsions, suspensions, etc.
 

UST_Gopher said:
You're missing the point, Dean. Please tell me you don't honestly believe any hiring manager or admissions counselor around the country doesn't do a simple google search. If you're going to claim that this is all because of the attorney and the information he released, any quality reporter or semi-informed mind could generate a quality conclusion as to the reasoning behind the expulsions, suspensions, etc.
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Then I have a suggestion. Do something really nice and get many of those nice mentions on the web and bury the problem to the shadows of the web. It was not the University that created this problem. It is not my problem. It is the problem of the athlete that did not do the right thing. And, if you have a case, pursue it. Otherwise, it is a tough love kind of day. Time to grow up, wise up and move on.
 

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