We have blinders on

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You wanna talk about having blinders on?

It's as if most of you don't watch the games or have no ability to figure out what's happening right in front of you.

1. Tubby Smith's teams at Minnesota have always run a pathetic offense. If you don't see the vast difference between the best teams' offenses and our offense, then you have blinders on. It's a glaring and terminal shortcoming. My high school basketball coach devised a better offense 30 years ago than the piece of crap we run. We have guys passing the ball and then running right to the guy to whom they passed the ball in order to set a screen. Sorry guys, that's how 5th graders play basketball. If you don't understand that, you shouldn't be coaching basketball.

2. Tubby Smith is not a draw. The best do not want to play for Tubby Smith. We will not get one of the big three in 2014. We do not attract top talent. Blake Hoffarber. Good guy. Very limited basketball player. It has little to do with where we're located or our facilities. It has everything to do with our coach and our legacy. If Coach K moved here 5 years ago, or Tom Izzo, or any other "hot" coach in the country, we would've seen the talent shoot through roof. If you can't see this, you have blinders on.

3. Tubby Smith signs lousy basketball players. You have blinders on if you think Osenieks, Ahanmisi, Welch, Ingram, etc, should ever see a minute of playing time in the Big Ten. Their skills are so lacking it's embarrassing. Can't you see this with your own eyes? Can they somewhat get by on the court? At times. But that doesn't mean they should be on a Big Ten roster. If you disagree, you have no ability to evaluate players. Rodney Williams is not a good basketball player against top talent. Period. He's clumsy, somewhat uncoordinated and often out of control. So he can dunk, bfd. He won't last 5 seconds in the NBA. Joe Coleman is not a Big Ten caliber player either. Good athlete, bad basketball player by Big Ten standards. Austin and Andre are very good, but not great. Trevor's pretty special, but they miss him at least half the time when he's open down low. We'll never know how dominating he could've been.

If you think it's any more complicated than this, you're wearing blinders!
 

I think the thread starter makes a great point regarding the Minnesota weather. Ann Arbor, East Lansing, and Columbus are all tropical paradises September through May. Good point.
 

OK breakthecurse, not going to bicker with you about what you said in your post, instead I have a question for you.


If what you say about Tubby is true, then why did we hire him?! Many here would agree with your assessment of Tubby. But some of those same people here argue that hiring Tubby was a great hire, SO MUCH SO that it should have vaulted us right up into the upper echelon of the Big Ten despite our lack of facilities and our lack of history.

Some Gopher fans also claim that the Minnesota job is a Top 20 job, that anyone we want out there outside of the Big Ten and excluding the coaches at the Bluebloods, should be available and should want this job, and our getting Tubby was proof of this.

I don't think people can have it both ways?


What is it, was Tubby a great hire, and should we really expect so much of him?

Or was he all we could get, because we are NOT a Top 20 job? Did we know Tubby wasn't that great of a coach? Did we think his famous name alone could maybe make up for his lack of coaching skills? Did we feel we needed a hire that would make a big splash more than we needed a truly good coach that would not be considered a huge hire?!

Or are we truly a Top 20 job, that made a bad hire?!


Or was it a great hire, but everything is simply Tubby's fault? Is Tubby buddies with Clem Haskins? Is this a plan they hatched to get back at UMn for how we treated Clem after the scandal? Is Tubby screwing things up here on purpose?!


And the Monson hire, was that really that good of a hire?! What I heard was that everyone with any brains knew Monson's assistant was the brains of that operation at Gonzaga, and that, like the Tubby hire, getting Monson was basically an attempt just to get a big name fresh in the minds of recruits?! While at the same time it was conceded that he was also only hired to bring respectability back to the program, not necessarily wins.


I'm just curious as to what you think?
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
I don't think people can have it both ways?
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In this case, they can. It is not mutually exclusive that Tubby could have been an in demand coach who underperformed upon arrival. That he has (arguably) not done well does not mean that we didn't beat out other schools who wanted him. Sometimes in all sports, the number one draft pick turns out to be a bust, but that doesn't mean that numbers two through five wouldn't have taken him if he had still been available.
 

Jibrahnike said:
I think the thread starter makes a great point regarding the Minnesota weather. Ann Arbor, East Lansing, and Columbus are all tropical paradises September through May. Good point.
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clearly your blinders must be covering your eyes because you didnt read the rest of my post. Those three cities you listed have better EVERYTHING then MN. Practice facilities, winning football programs, and have been relevant in the NCAA for the past 15 years. Recruits have seen and heard of all of those programs while growing up and seen them all on National TV.

Go find kids who are between 14-18 years old right now and did not grow up in the midwest and ask them what they know about Minnesota Gopher sports. We have been an unknown program since we cheated to make final four in mid 90's. Why go to an unknown program where it is cold when you can go to a well known program where it is cold?
 


this is news to me, I've never met anyone who's planned a trip to either of those states unless relatives live there.
 

bleedgold said:
Why go to an unknown program where it is cold when you can go to a well known program where it is cold?
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Since you are the only one in this state without blinders on could you help the rest of us out with your list of solutions?

Thanks in advance.
 

BreakTheGopherCurse said:
3. Tubby Smith signs lousy basketball players. You have blinders on if you think Osenieks, Ahanmisi, Welch, Ingram, etc, should ever see a minute of playing time in the Big Ten. Their skills are so lacking it's embarrassing. Can't you see this with your own eyes? Can they somewhat get by on the court? At times. But that doesn't mean they should be on a Big Ten roster. If you disagree, you have no ability to evaluate players. Rodney Williams is not a good basketball player against top talent. Period. He's clumsy, somewhat uncoordinated and often out of control. So he can dunk, bfd. He won't last 5 seconds in the NBA. Joe Coleman is not a Big Ten caliber player either. Good athlete, bad basketball player by Big Ten standards. Austin and Andre are very good, but not great. Trevor's pretty special, but they miss him at least half the time when he's open down low. We'll never know how dominating he could've been.
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Why do so few many not understand that guys like Ahanmisi, Armelin, Welch, and Ingram were brought in because of transfers? Criticize Tubby for the transfers and/or for not banking a scholarship instead of bringing in a last second recruit. We've seen more talent come through the program since Tubby got here than in a long time, they just haven't all stayed here or haven't developed.

As for Coleman, not everyone has to be a great player to be considered "Big Ten caliber." They guy scored 29 points on the road in the Big Ten this year for crying out loud. He's extremely inconsistent and very frustrating to watch at times, but that does not mean he's not able to play at this level.

Andre Hollins has the potential to be a very special player in the next two years if you ask me. People probably don't realize this, but Andre is on pace to have about 800 career points after this season. If you say he averages 15 points a game the next two years (not much of an increase over his 13.8 right now), and the Gophers average 33 games a season, that would put him in the Top 5 scorers of all-time in team history.

If you think it's any more complicated than this, you're wearing blinders!
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I guess I have blinders on then, because I don't think it's as simple as some people are making it out to be.
 

tinyarch said:
The Twin Cities is a Fortune 500 city. We have professional sports teams, top notch medical fields and are looking to make a bid to host the Olympics. Yeah...what do we have to recruit with? Point out to the kids parents and to the kid that the networking capabilities should they need a job after the NBA are phenomenal here in the Twin Cities. If the kid has half a brain they can put together a stellar career in a field of their choosing. Really, if being cold in the winter is the only thing holding a kid back, then all those other factors should overwhelmingly compensate for a few days of cold. It's not like Madison and Iowa City are tropical paradises. Come on, if a coach can't sell Minneapolis/St. Paul, then they just aren't very good salesmen.
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And you think that HELPS recruiting? If you were a high school stud, would you choose UM where your program is about the fifth or sixth most followed program in town? Where basketball is the second most followed winter sport? Or would you pick UW or Kansas where your program is on page one of the sports section and you're adored by the fans and media? UM stopped being competitive in college sports when the Twin Cities became a pro town. We can be better than we are, but only with more effort and good luck than college towns require. As to coaches selling the TCs to recruits, many in football and basketball have tried. Were all the coaches poor salesmen? Or was some other constant inhibiting them?
 



Maximus said:
Since you are the only one in this state without blinders on could you help the rest of us out with your list of solutions?

Thanks in advance.
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Thanks for asking I would love to.

The whole point to me starting this thread is to not back Tubby because this will be his tell tale year of what he has accomplished but more so to look at what we are actually going up against in terms of recruiting, facilities and lack of national exposure and understand that Tubby has NOT been nearly as bad as people think.

2 years ago we were ranked 14 in the nation, we had just beat UNC and our floor leader breaks his foot. We can sit here and play the what if games all we want but everyone would agree we were 10x the team with Nolen playing PG instead of Hoffarber. Without that injury we most likely end season in top 25. Anyone who disagrees can watch Kentucky the rest of the year and see how they do without their best player in the line-up and then get back to me. ( I will leave the ROyce white debacle out but Tubby recruited him, signed him and he clearly would have helped us win, not Tubby's fault he hadnt matured yet)

This year Gophers were 14-1 and all national analysts were talking about us, Tom Crean was gushing about us on twitter there was excitement in MN that we havnt had since mid to late 90's. The fact Tubby had/has us relevant is extremely important to both recruiting and getting us a new practicie facility. I find it hard to believe every national anaylyst and coaches were wrong when saying Tubby has a great team this year.

Clearly we are in a bad stretch but how do we go from ranked 9th in the nation, everyone loves us to now everyone is calling for Tubby's head. Kansas just lost 3 in a row and scored 11 points in the first half against a terrible TCU team. Rough patches happen but other than the NW loss, we have lost to some VERY good teams and almost every loss has been a very close game.

Before everyone calls for Tubby's head, and demanding we hire someone else, look at what our program is facing and has been facing for 15+ years and realize being ranked in the top 25, 2 out of the last 3 years is a very good accomplishment from where we have been. If we lose first round this year ok...make a change but we have a good squad and should easily win 1 if not 2 games.
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
And you think that HELPS recruiting? If you were a high school stud, would you choose UM where your program is about the fifth or sixth most followed program in town? Where basketball is the second most followed winter sport? Or would you pick UW or Kansas where your program is on page one of the sports section and you're adored by the fans and media?
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You're making it seem as though being the #6 choice among many is automatically worse than being the #1 choice among one. I'd rather be the #6 choice in Minneapolis (or NYC, or LA, or Houston, or Chicago, etc., etc.) than the #1 choice in Bumf*ck, UT.

FanSinceTheFifties said:
UM stopped being competitive in college sports when the Twin Cities became a pro town.
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O RLY? I'm sure our hockey, wrestling, volleyball, golf, etc., etc. teams would love to hear this breaking news.
 

I don't think people are expecting too much. I am not expecting us to always be as good/better than OSU, Michigan, Indiana. . .I get the hierarchy.

However, I expected Tubby to be WAY better than Monson and he's only been marginally been than Monson was following NCAA sanctions.
 

BreakTheGopherCurse said:
It's as if most of you don't watch the games or have no ability to figure out what's happening right in front of you.

1. Tubby Smith's teams at Minnesota have always run a pathetic offense. If you don't see the vast difference between the best teams' offenses and our offense, then you have blinders on. It's a glaring and terminal shortcoming. My high school basketball coach devised a better offense 30 years ago than the piece of crap we run. We have guys passing the ball and then running right to the guy to whom they passed the ball in order to set a screen. Sorry guys, that's how 5th graders play basketball. If you don't understand that, you shouldn't be coaching basketball.

2. Tubby Smith is not a draw. The best do not want to play for Tubby Smith. We will not get one of the big three in 2014. We do not attract top talent. Blake Hoffarber. Good guy. Very limited basketball player. It has little to do with where we're located or our facilities. It has everything to do with our coach and our legacy. If Coach K moved here 5 years ago, or Tom Izzo, or any other "hot" coach in the country, we would've seen the talent shoot through roof. If you can't see this, you have blinders on.

3. Tubby Smith signs lousy basketball players. You have blinders on if you think Osenieks, Ahanmisi, Welch, Ingram, etc, should ever see a minute of playing time in the Big Ten. Their skills are so lacking it's embarrassing. Can't you see this with your own eyes? Can they somewhat get by on the court? At times. But that doesn't mean they should be on a Big Ten roster. If you disagree, you have no ability to evaluate players. Rodney Williams is not a good basketball player against top talent. Period. He's clumsy, somewhat uncoordinated and often out of control. So he can dunk, bfd. He won't last 5 seconds in the NBA. Joe Coleman is not a Big Ten caliber player either. Good athlete, bad basketball player by Big Ten standards. Austin and Andre are very good, but not great. Trevor's pretty special, but they miss him at least half the time when he's open down low. We'll never know how dominating he could've been.

If you think it's any more complicated than this, you're wearing blinders!
Click to expand...

Completely agree on number 1. Heavily disagree on 2 and 3

Do you realize how highly Tubby's first recruiting classes were ranked? They were very very good. He kept the best in state talent and got some good talent from out if state.

As GopherInIowa said, you can get pissed about his retention and development I guess, but the recruiting classes were all very highly rated.

And Blake Hoffarber had quite a few BCS offers, but not a Tubby recruit. Maybe your beef is with Monson if you dislike Blake the player so much?
 



dpodoll68 said:
You're making it seem as though being the #6 choice among many is automatically worse than being the #1 choice among one. I'd rather be the #6 choice in Minneapolis (or NYC, or LA, or Houston, or Chicago, etc., etc.) than the #1 choice in Bumf*ck, UT.



O RLY? I'm sure our hockey, wrestling, volleyball, golf, etc., etc. teams would love to hear this breaking news.
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You're right -- I should have specified basketball and football, the two sports considered important at nearly every major school except UM. As to your opinion that you'd rather be in a town with six major attractions -- sure, as a fan you would. As an 18 year old who's been coddled all his life and loves the attention, you'd prefer to be at Madison, Iowa City, Lawrence, Fayetteville, or a score of other college towns where you're noticed. I think we've disagreed on the matter of the influence of the pro sports in this market before. I'll leave the last word up to you. Rgds.
 

But the point is valid and unavoidable. If Mike Hebert could build a national title contender in women's volleyball at Minnesota, you have to consider anything is possible. He got kids from Hawaii and California to pass up close-by prominent programs to come here. Objectively that sounds three times harder than recruiting men's basketball players to the north. All I hear are a bunch of excuses that don't hold an ounce of water upon analysis. If Hebert could contend for national championships, basketball can finish higher than sixth place more often than six or more years' intervals.
 

I agree with you on this one. dpodoll implied that it's either huge city or middle of nowhere--I'm guessing players prefer somewhere in between. It helps to have a "real" college town feel. Dinky just isn't that great.

FanSinceTheFifties said:
You're right -- I should have specified basketball and football, the two sports considered important at nearly every major school except UM. As to your opinion that you'd rather be in a town with six major attractions -- sure, as a fan you would. As an 18 year old who's been coddled all his life and loves the attention, you'd prefer to be at Madison, Iowa City, Lawrence, Fayetteville, or a score of other college towns where you're noticed. I think we've disagreed on the matter of the influence of the pro sports in this market before. I'll leave the last word up to you. Rgds.
Click to expand...
 

bleedgold said:
clearly your blinders must be covering your eyes because you didnt read the rest of my post. Those three cities you listed have better EVERYTHING then MN. Practice facilities, winning football programs, and have been relevant in the NCAA for the past 15 years. Recruits have seen and heard of all of those programs while growing up and seen them all on National TV.

Go find kids who are between 14-18 years old right now and did not grow up in the midwest and ask them what they know about Minnesota Gopher sports. We have been an unknown program since we cheated to make final four in mid 90's. Why go to an unknown program where it is cold when you can go to a well known program where it is cold?
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You're right, I didn't read the rest of your lame post. Because, I stopped when you compared us to Ohio St, Michigan, and Michigan St, and decided to start your rant by talking about the weather. Like East Lansing, Columbus and Ann Arbor are tropical paradises compared to the U of M September thru May. Dumbshyt. LOL!

Like the football program we have has much to do with where a recruit goes to play basketball. If that were the case, Duke would suck every year! Oh, and let's not mention Kentucky's 0-8 performance in SEC play! How has that played into Kentucky's ability to recruit tough guy? Oh, and Lexington is such a superior city in every way to Minneapolis! They make us look like the A-hole of 'Merica comparatively!

With the potential of being set for life through playing the game of basketball, do you really think anything other than a coach that will put you in a position to make the pro's, and a good education would weigh more in your decision to come to a program? Patino would recruit just as well here practice facility or no practice facility. Good football program, bad football program. Why? Because he has a proven track record of making players into pros and winners. Get a clue bro.

Stop trying to make people feel clueless with your rant, as if none of our failures with recruiting have anything to do with Tubby. Tubby and his slow down offense is not a good situation to be able to further your basketball career. Just look at Cobbs, Joseph, and Iverson. They finally were able to excel in their career apart from Tubby Time! Tyus Jones need take one look at that boring, no assemblance of an offensive game plan, and know that he will never catch the eyes of a scout in such a system. Moron! Blinders???

Oh, and how many 4-5 star recruits families take family vacations to lame cities like Ann Arbor, East Lansing, or Columbus you imbecile? Haha! You can't make up such stupidity! WTF were you thinking when you decided to go on this lousy rant? Huh? Seriously bro? Is your head right?

Take your Tubby Rules blinders off, and join the real world pal. Haha! Settling on a guy like Maverick, when Siyani Chambers would've loved to be here, has nothing to do with what you are ranting about. Perhaps try opening your own blinders. A little ray of light might do your brain some good bud!
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
You're right -- I should have specified basketball and football, the two sports considered important at nearly every major school except UM. As to your opinion that you'd rather be in a town with six major attractions -- sure, as a fan you would. As an 18 year old who's been coddled all his life and loves the attention, you'd prefer to be at Madison, Iowa City, Lawrence, Fayetteville, or a score of other college towns where you're noticed. I think we've disagreed on the matter of the influence of the pro sports in this market before. I'll leave the last word up to you. Rgds.
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That's why Miami is struggling so much this year.
 

Jigrahnike- First off, I am not your "bro" and I never will be.

It is hard to have a discussion with someone who will only read one sentence of a paragraph before they start their rant instead of read all of the points that were laid out. As you stated you are correct, East Lansing, Ann Arbor and Columbus are not tropical paradies, nor is there weather much better if better at all then the U of M. But kids have grown up watching those teams WIN on national television. Ohio State, MSU are sweet 16 or better year in and year out for the last 10 years. Michigan is known for Fab 5, they have been ranked #1 this year....kids who are 12-18 years old right now know the faces of those programs. What has the U of M done in the last 15 years that would allow a kid to know about them? Not a dang thing. So back to what I said...Why go play in the cold at an unknown college when I can go play in the cold at a top program like those listed above? The answer is common sense.

I am embarassed for you and your football rant. Comparing Kentucky's football program and Dukes to how they recruit is ridiculous. You are talking about two of the most well known historic basketball programs in the nation. Of course football doesnt affect them. But you can honestly say an 18 year old kid watching a gophers football game with 10,000 people at the game and then watching a game at say the big house or Wisconsin with 70,000 people is not going to have more fun elsewhere? Get a grip on real life. These are kids who want to have FUN in college.
 

The biggest obstacle our teams face is the annual despair brought on by Seasonal Affective Disorder.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Easy to hear it if that is what you are looking to hear. Advocating in state vs. national recruiting is not a racial issue.
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Thx, bleedsmaroonandgold. I would be happy to meet From the Barn and have you tell me to my face that I am a racist. Last time I looked Trevor Mbakwe and Rodney Williams not to mention Royce White and Tyus Jones are persons of color and Oto Osieniks is not. It also happens Wolters and Woodside are not. I don't remember anybody saying to all of you who say that neither of them was worth a damn that that is a racist comment. Or all the Tubby haters. Let's debate whether that's racist or not. That would elevate things about as much as From the Barn has done.
 

Wow this got to 5 pages? I gotta admit I'm surprised.

This was a great troll thread.
 

Clem Haskins could flat out coach basketball and had the team fired up. Play Hosea! You knew when that kid came in we butt whooped the other side.
 

Losses

vs #1 Duke
@ #5 MSU
vs #6 Michigan
@ #12 Indiana

vs #28 Illinois
@ #32 Wisconsin

@ #108 Nrthwstrn




Wins

vs #5 MSU
vs #24 Memphis

@ #28 Illinois
vs #32 Wisc

vs #63 FSU
vs #67 Stanford
vs #72 NDSU
vs #73 SDSU

vs #84 Richmond
vs #89 Iowa
vs #95 USC
vs #96 Tenn St

vs #101 Nebraska
vs #108 Nrthwstrn


2-4 vs Top 25
4-6 vs Top 50
8-6 vs Top 75
12-6 vs Top 100
14-7 vs Top 125


You judge for yourself how good or bad of a job Tubby is doing as compared to any NON-cheating team in the last 20 years.
 

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