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bleedgold

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I do not think there is anyone in MN who wont agree that Tubby Smith has not brought the Gophers to the power house we all expected but I do not think you can argue we are in a much better place now then we were 5-10 years ago. The problem is as MN fans we all think we should be able to recruit as well as and beat Michigan State, Ohio State, Michigan ect...

What exactly does MN have to sell to top notch 4-5star recruits? School runs September through May and that is the worst times to live in MN weather wise. The kids we are recruiting now were born around the same time we had our last final four run (we cheated to get there). Tell me how a kid who is not from the midwest has ever heard of MN and the gophers? Its not even like they hear about our great football program, so what are we selling them on?

How many families from the east coast, west coast or south take family trips to MN? Not many if any, so we dont even have that going for us.

We now expect our coaches to tighten the border battle for recruiting. What is the draw for Tyus, Vaugh or Travis to stay here? Stay here and enjoy the cold that you have suffered through for 18 years already or go play for a Hall of Fame coach at Duke or Kentucky or Kansas where they make the sweet 16 and are on National Television every year. It is easy for us rubes to sit here and say "oh but you can be the hometown hero, everyone will love you." Duke only has 2 kids on its roster from NC. Kansas only has 3 kids on its team from Kansas.

But now you are recruiting and you get a kid who says ok I can battle the cold...I can tough it out...so if they are going to tough it out...why chose MN? Now you go to Michigan State, or Michigan or Ohio State. Schools that offer the same weather but are known winners.

Tubby is not a life saver and without a win in the Dance this year he should be gone but what are our real expectations? We are a middle of the pack program, always will be and we have possibly the worst facilities in the BIG10. Tubby has had us ranked 20th or higher in 3 of his 6 years. How much better do you really think we can get?
 

Can-do attitudes are for the weak. We need more of the Not-us, Not-ever attitude.

Wild guess....life long Minnesotan?
 

What school(s) in a different geography would you compare us to as far as attractiveness to potential recruits? I'm curious.

Washington?
Washington State?
St. John's?
 

Maximus said:
Can-do attitudes are for the weak. We need more of the Not-us, Not-ever attitude.

Wild guess....life long Minnesotan?
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It's insane, the defeatist attitude is incredible around these parts (I'm a Scandinavian Minnesotan).
 

goldengophers said:
It's insane, the defeatist attitude is incredible around these parts (I'm a Scandinavian Minnesotan).
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Exactly. I can't believe the comments of, "We can't compete with..." That's so stupid. East Lansing is not a great college town with great weather. Yet, they win. Wisconsin does not offer more than Minnesota, but they have been winning (although I could never watch that style of hoops year in and out). Kansas State? Oklahoma State? Purdue?

There is no reason a coach can't win here. We have a ton to offer, especially for hoops, that most others don't. Is it a greater challenge than MSU, Duke, or UNC? Of course it is. Does it have to stay that way? No.

It's been a long time, but Dutch brought in a number one recruiting class. When Clem left, I remember Billy Packer, Vitale, and others saying it is a great job - should be one of the top 20 in the country with what we pay, the city, ability to get a decent base of recruits in MN, and traditionally one of the top 2-4 conferences in the country.

Too many of our fans think the grass is always greener, and act like we are Wyoming, South Dakota, or Idaho.
 


goldengophers said:
It's insane, the defeatist attitude is incredible around these parts (I'm a Scandinavian Minnesotan).
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"how them Gophers doin' this year?"...."oh not so bad"..."how 'bout that villiams kid, he sure can yump can't he?"..."ya he's yumper fer sur"..."and that Eliason, tall or vat?"..."like a silo i'd say"..."Tubby, he'll get 'em goin' fer sur"...you betcha."
 

Is it just me or do we have one of the top five arenas in the country? Seriously, this should still be a huge asset for this program, and yes I am aware of the need for a practice facility.
 

nokomismod said:
Is it just me or do we have one of the top five arenas in the country? Seriously, this should still be a huge asset for this program, and yes I am aware of the need for a practice facility.
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Williams is awesome. The fact you can never use it isn't.
 

lots of people go to central north carolin and kansas for vacation.
 




Recruiting has not been the biggest problem under Tubby IMO. I'd argue he's done a good job at recruiting. The problem is being able to keep these players in the program, and executing on game day.
 

Part of the reason Monson was brought in was because he could run a clean program and tread water through the issue years. The thought was that after probation Monson would get us back to competitive. Before Clem was caught we had 4 NCAA appearances in the 6 years prior and the outlook for the program was not a mid to bottom tier Big10 team. We also only finished with a losing conference record once in his last 7 years. My belief is that we were thought of as mid tier team with the potential to compete for the top spot every couple of years.

I don't think that type of expectation is out of the realm of possibility. We need to only look one state to the east and see what the Grinch has done at 'Sconny. What is better over there than here? Milwaukee isn't that nice. The Dells is ok once or twice in ten years. They lead the nation in per capita serial killers and dead deer humpers. He has built a very good program that is competitive year in and year out with much less than we offer.

You are not going to get every great in state recruit. You are always going to have your Aldrichs, Dahlmans, and Allen Andersons. But you need to get the other good guys and we have done that in the past(Pryz, Jacobsen, Humpries, etc.) When you go out of state you need to get good recruits like the Hollins, Devoe, even Colton was a good recruit. You also need to make sure you don't let good secondary in state kids leave. I'm not talking Wolters either ( I don't think he would have been as good here as he is currently). Kids that can come off the bench and possibly develop. Guys like Dower, Cam Rundles, Noah Dahlman, Lockett, etc. (I think we let one go this year with Graham Woodward).

What has frustrated me this year more than the others is the bad play. You score 48 points against Northwestern when you dumped 69 on them two weeks before, you get held to 44 by a badger team that isn't as good as you and hasn't held a decent team to less points all season, you lose to Illinois at home scoring 21 points less than you did when you beat them on the road, etc. The team can't shoot, break a press or a zone, and when you watch it's coach from the sidelines it appears he has given up on them. I expect to have a tough time with teams like Indiana, Mich & St, OSU. You beat any of them this year it's a bonus. The barn is dead. I've been going to games for many years and I don't remember many times when the atmosphere has been as negative as it is currently.

Sorry for rambling but I think the mindset that we are a bottom Big 10 team is just as bad as thinking we are MSU or Ohio State.
 

I think at minimum we should expect a 500 conference overall record at MN. Not the current 43-58.
 



Wisconsin, Michigan and Michigan State seem to have no trouble recruiting good players in similar climates. Coaching is the reason we don't get good recruits.
 

mcal24 said:
Wisconsin, Michigan and Michigan State seem to have no trouble recruiting good players in similar climates. Coaching is the reason we don't get good recruits.
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And facilities.
 

The Twin Cities is a Fortune 500 city. We have professional sports teams, top notch medical fields and are looking to make a bid to host the Olympics. Yeah...what do we have to recruit with? Point out to the kids parents and to the kid that the networking capabilities should they need a job after the NBA are phenomenal here in the Twin Cities. If the kid has half a brain they can put together a stellar career in a field of their choosing. Really, if being cold in the winter is the only thing holding a kid back, then all those other factors should overwhelmingly compensate for a few days of cold. It's not like Madison and Iowa City are tropical paradises. Come on, if a coach can't sell Minneapolis/St. Paul, then they just aren't very good salesmen.
 

tinyarch said:
The Twin Cities is a Fortune 500 city. We have professional sports teams, top notch medical fields and are looking to make a bid to host the Olympics. Yeah...what do we have to recruit with? Point out to the kids parents and to the kid that the networking capabilities should they need a job after the NBA are phenomenal here in the Twin Cities. If the kid has half a brain they can put together a stellar career in a field of their choosing. Really, if being cold in the winter is the only thing holding a kid back, then all those other factors should overwhelmingly compensate for a few days of cold. It's not like Madison and Iowa City are tropical paradises. Come on, if a coach can't sell Minneapolis/St. Paul, then they just aren't very good salesmen.
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Well said.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Exactly. I can't believe the comments of, "We can't compete with..." That's so stupid. East Lansing is not a great college town with great weather. Yet, they win. Wisconsin does not offer more than Minnesota, but they have been winning (although I could never watch that style of hoops year in and out). Kansas State? Oklahoma State? Purdue?

There is no reason a coach can't win here. We have a ton to offer, especially for hoops, that most others don't. Is it a greater challenge than MSU, Duke, or UNC? Of course it is. Does it have to stay that way? No.

It's been a long time, but Dutch brought in a number one recruiting class. When Clem left, I remember Billy Packer, Vitale, and others saying it is a great job - should be one of the top 20 in the country with what we pay, the city, ability to get a decent base of recruits in MN, and traditionally one of the top 2-4 conferences in the country.

Too many of our fans think the grass is always greener, and act like we are Wyoming, South Dakota, or Idaho.
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As I have said in the past here, I will never forget what Dutcher said his standard for competing in the Big Ten was. He said that Minnesota was place where he thought that a coach should be able to make a run at the Big Ten title once every 4 years. He didn't say win it- he did say he wanted to contend for it. He realized that you wouldn't get great recruiting classes year in year out up here. Instead you have to build for a run at the title and then rebuild and do it again. His idea was to try and get the #1 player out of Minnesota every year (if possible) and get the rest from where ever he had to go. I think he was realistic and he lived up to those standards.
 

station19 said:
I think at minimum we should expect a 500 conference overall record at MN. Not the current 43-58.
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Nothing unrealistic about that. Some would have you believe that that is impossible.
 

Have never bought the "woe is us" routine. That's a cop-out, and it gets frickin' old real quick.

Hate to bring it up (others have), but look no further than the Red Menace to our east. Bottom line. If Bucky can have consistently strong football and basketball programs -- the bread & butter programs of any major university -- there's no reason we can't. Nothing is more distasteful than losing to Bucky in those two sports almost every single time we play 'em. And now I see what Fran McCaffery is building at Iowa and it just makes me want to hurl. Iowa's gonna' be real good real soon, too, IMO.
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Exactly. I can't believe the comments of, "We can't compete with..." That's so stupid. East Lansing is not a great college town with great weather. Yet, they win. Wisconsin does not offer more than Minnesota, but they have been winning (although I could never watch that style of hoops year in and out). Kansas State? Oklahoma State? Purdue?

There is no reason a coach can't win here. We have a ton to offer, especially for hoops, that most others don't. Is it a greater challenge than MSU, Duke, or UNC? Of course it is. Does it have to stay that way? No.

It's been a long time, but Dutch brought in a number one recruiting class. When Clem left, I remember Billy Packer, Vitale, and others saying it is a great job - should be one of the top 20 in the country with what we pay, the city, ability to get a decent base of recruits in MN, and traditionally one of the top 2-4 conferences in the country.

Too many of our fans think the grass is always greener, and act like we are Wyoming, South Dakota, or Idaho.
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For 18-22 year old kids. East Lansing is a great college town. I speak from experience.
 

scher215 said:
And facilities.
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If Tubby had been "all in" on this job working his fanny off recruiting, promoting it and winning (as he could have with his name brand)- we would already have shovels in the ground on the facilities. It's tougher to get the funds when the town lacks the excitement. It's been a half hearted effort by Tubby- the potential was there.
 

bleedgold said:
I do not think there is anyone in MN who wont agree that Tubby Smith has not brought the Gophers to the power house we all expected but I do not think you can argue we are in a much better place now then we were 5-10 years ago. The problem is as MN fans we all think we should be able to recruit as well as and beat Michigan State, Ohio State, Michigan ect...

What exactly does MN have to sell to top notch 4-5star recruits? School runs September through May and that is the worst times to live in MN weather wise. The kids we are recruiting now were born around the same time we had our last final four run (we cheated to get there). Tell me how a kid who is not from the midwest has ever heard of MN and the gophers? Its not even like they hear about our great football program, so what are we selling them on?

How many families from the east coast, west coast or south take family trips to MN? Not many if any, so we dont even have that going for us.

We now expect our coaches to tighten the border battle for recruiting. What is the draw for Tyus, Vaugh or Travis to stay here? Stay here and enjoy the cold that you have suffered through for 18 years already or go play for a Hall of Fame coach at Duke or Kentucky or Kansas where they make the sweet 16 and are on National Television every year. It is easy for us rubes to sit here and say "oh but you can be the hometown hero, everyone will love you." Duke only has 2 kids on its roster from NC. Kansas only has 3 kids on its team from Kansas.

But now you are recruiting and you get a kid who says ok I can battle the cold...I can tough it out...so if they are going to tough it out...why chose MN? Now you go to Michigan State, or Michigan or Ohio State. Schools that offer the same weather but are known winners.

Tubby is not a life saver and without a win in the Dance this year he should be gone but what are our real expectations? We are a middle of the pack program, always will be and we have possibly the worst facilities in the BIG10. Tubby has had us ranked 20th or higher in 3 of his 6 years. How much better do you really think we can get?
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You have to finish well. If you end the year with top 20 finishes no one cares what happens in the middle or at the start. Don't start with the injuries and defections stuff- that won't sell. You get credit for the players you put on the court.
 

Certainly it has turned out that Tubby is not a great recruiter. Like his predecessors--Clem Haskins, anyway--he does not really respect Minnesota high school ball. He recruits the obvious ones like Royce and Rodney; he only got Mbakwe on the rebound. But then he goes out on the national market and gets guards who are no better than Wolters or Woodside if they are even as good.

The secret to winning at Minnesota is to close the borders--not for the Tyus Joneses (and similarly, the Tayler Hills), who as has been pointed out are getting offers from the Dukes and North Carolinas and Kansases of the world, let 'em go. But shut the borders for all the other kids who don't have those kinds of offers, which makes them no different than Maverick Ahanmisi and most of the other kids that Tubby recruits.

Then after you've got a roster that is a Minnesota all-star team (minus 1 or 2 4 and 5 star players), I admit that you will need to have the best %^*(& game-day coach around. I mean, Bill Musselman coulda won with Wolters and Muscala, don't kid yourselves. I saw him beat the Celtics of Bird and McHale with Scott Roth. And he's gotta ask those kids to run through a brick wall.

I know, I know. But this my friends is the one sure foundation. This is a game plan you can execute if you want to, and once you have a little success with it, then a couple of kids might come from somewhere else who can put you over the top. But relying on out-of-town talent as a foundation? No. That's what we've got today and it ain't working.
 

sunnyday2 said:
But relying on out-of-town talent as a foundation? No. That's what we've got today and it ain't working.
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If they hadn't already had to forfeit it due to cheating, I presume you'd want the 1997 squad to give up their Final Four appearance because they only had 3 Minnesota natives in the rotation?
 

Recruits aren't thinking about places to get a job and all of that, the bid for the olympics was back in 96. The type of recruits we need to win in the bigten aren't thinking about what fortune 500 company they will work for, they're are thinking about becoming NBA ballers
 

dpodoll68 said:
If they hadn't already had to forfeit it due to cheating, I presume you'd want the 1997 squad to give up their Final Four appearance because they only had 3 Minnesota natives in the rotation?
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You answered your own question. The fact that they forfeited it due to cheating is exactly a consequence of the bigger strategy of relying on the national market. It didn't work without cheating.
 

This thread gives me hope, I'm glad there is a base willing to challenge the negative fans content with helping to keep the program down.
 

If we hire the right coach it will turn pretty quickly.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Have never bought the "woe is us" routine. That's a cop-out, and it gets frickin' old real quick.

Hate to bring it up (others have), but look no further than the Red Menace to our east. Bottom line. If Bucky can have consistently strong football and basketball programs -- the bread & butter programs of any major university -- there's no reason we can't. Nothing is more distasteful than losing to Bucky in those two sports almost every single time we play 'em. And now I see what Fran McCaffery is building at Iowa and it just makes me want to hurl. Iowa's gonna' be real good real soon, too, IMO.
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Agreed. Also look at Iowa state, not exactly a great destination for a city kid in the middle of the corn fields.

A big city with a professional franchise should be a great draw. I guess i didn't see Ricky Rubio at Iowa or any other hickville towns, but he was at the Barn!
 

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