We are paying the price for poor recruiting (2005-2007)

[What Up Guy]

I dont want to say that our poor returns from our 2005, 2006 and 2007 recruiting classes are an excuse for losing to Wisconsin. Lets be real, Wisconsin played a good game and we made too many mistakes.

Its just kind of interesting, if you look back at our recruiting, just how poor we did in those critical years for this team. Players from the 2005-2007 classes should be the meat of our team: Redshirt Seniors, Seniors, Redshirt Juniors, Juniors and redshirt sophomores.

Please correct me if I am wrong below, I am just going off the top of my head and the rivals.com lists:

2005

Alex Daniels
Mike Chambers
Boyd Coleman
Steve Davis
Dominic Jones
Marcel Jones
Keith Massey
Ryan Ruckdashel
Ned Tavale
Jay Thomas
Nate Triplett
Troy Reilly
Eric Decker
Otis Hudson
Jason Sekinger
Michael McKelton
Chris Mensen
Matt Stommes
Jeff Brooks
Richard Christy

-Decker is elite. Davis was a solid starter and graduated. Ruckdashel, Tavale, Jay Thomas, Stommes have been part time players/starters. Ruck and Tavale don't even play this year. Thomas career has really been derailed by injury and he returns about 1 kick a game. Nate Triplett has been good this year, always was good on special teams and one year starter.
-So from 2005, we have 3 starters: Decker, Stommes, Triplett. From everyone else, they are mainly off the team and never did anything. No depth at all from this class and without Decker its embarrassing.
-13 of 20 have done nothing for this team Since Brewster took over
-(not going to talk about D. Jones...)

2006

Dominic Alford
Tommy Becker
Andy Brinkhaus
Garrett Brown
R.J. Buckner
D.J. Burris
Brylee Callender
Lee Campbell
Duran Cooley
Willie Dyson
Eric Ellestad
Ben Fischer
Jamar Howard
E.J. Jones
Daron Love
Robert McField
Sean McWhirter
Josh Robertson
Rudy Robinson
Terrence Sherrer
Adam Weber
Mike Wey

-4 starters from this class (Seniors/Redshirt Juniors) including the kicker Ellestad, its Brown, Campbell and Weber. Dom Alford has been a part-time starter and has played in the never ending offensive line rotation. I think Brinkhaus is still a backup.
-Basically 16 of the 22 contributed nothing in their MN careers
-McField, we dont even need to get into that
-Brylee, kid had some problems, bad recruit

2007

Anthony Jacobs
Clint Brewster
Andre Tate
Curtis Thomas
Trey Davis
Ryan Orton
Chris Bunders
Ryan Collado
Durrell Clark- James
Logan Uu
Duane Bennett
Marc Cheatham
Serge Elizee
Collin McGarry
Shane Potter
Eric Small
Justin Chatman
Tray Herndon
Ryan Wynn
Kyle Theret
Jimmy Thompson
Harold Howell
Ralph Spry Jr.
Damien White

-3 full-time starters Small, Theret and Bennett
-8 guys who have started (including Spry who is gone, and 4 OL who have been in an out)
-about 7 guys who actually play at all this year
-13 guys already gone, didnt make it at all

All in all looking at this years roster:

-Decker, Weber, Small, Brown, Theret, Jacobs, Campbell, Bunders, Bennett, Triplett. Count 'em 10, what I would call "significant" players out of 68 total recuits

-About 10 other guys who have contributed or are back-ups. Alford, Collado, Ryan Wynn types...

-Just too many swings and misses overall in a 3 year span. I think the lack of quality depth and quality starters from these seasons are pretty evident, specially on the offensive line.

-Like I said, if I missed anything, messed something up, please let me know. I am no expert, just a rube who is just going off his head and the rivals.com lists from 05-07.

 

[Goldmember]

The obvious counter-argument is that if our talent was so bad then why are we playing so many more seniors than Wisconsin and Iowa?

 

[Ole]

I put something similar in the Oline athlete thread
Unreal, the numbers of guys who never sniffed special teams even.

Our program rotted from the inside out over the last 4 years of the previous regime.
Between the Dome, soft schedules, this recruiting, HS coaches sour relationships, etc. We patched holes with Jucos, but the job of righting these wrongs is still not done yet. Wisconsin had solid recruiting during this period, established identity, and smoothly transitioned into their current Dbag coach.
Brew's young guys are going to need to step into the spotlight earlier than should be expected of them, but I hope it is sooner rather than later

 

[Gold Vision]

The obvious counter-argument is that if our talent was so bad then why are we playing so many more seniors than Wisconsin and Iowa?

Exactly what I am thinking. Why not play some of these "better athletes"?

 

[gophertree]

It could happen sooner than later

I think a lot depends on what direction the season takes from here on out. I agree that would should play more of the younger talent, but I doubt Brew will lean too heavily on them unless the season really takes a turn for the worst. This is especially true with the Weber/Gray debate. I believe Brew feels (rightfully so) that he needs to win now, and the staff believes that the best way to do that is with the experienced Weber under center.

I don't really agree, and I would love to see Gray get at least a series or 2 each game to see what happens.

PUR is a must win, if we go into PSU and OSU at 3-3 I think we're in trouble.

I guess the other option is if Maturi assures Brew that he is the guy for the next 4-5 years, he may relax a bit and feel like he can afford to throw some of the younger talent in and put up with the youthful mistakes.

 

[monk10]

I thought the common perception around coaches is that if they are going to lose they are going to lose with their guys. If Brewster felt the pressure to win now, wouldn't he want to go out with the guys he recruited? To me it seems like he has a long term plan in place which includes allowing his younger pups to get experience in certain situations and rely on the experience of others on a game basis.

 

[What Up Guy]

Exactly what I am thinking. Why not play some of these "better athletes"?

Its tough to play in the Big Ten as a true soph/freshman, especially up front where bigger more mature players rule. I never said we should play the younger guys, or that the younger guys are better than the older guys now. I am just saying we haven't gotten enough out of the old guys.

2008 class contributed some JUCOs like Simoni and then Royston transferred. I dont think you can argue we didn't get much, or enough from those years to compete at the top end of the Big Ten yet.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

This pretty much sums up the lack of depth for the Gophers

Wow that is a lot of misses in three years from the previous staff in recruiting. There are so many names on these list that are not here it is not even funny. No wonder we lost scholarships for the APR thing. A large UGH when seeing all of the people that are no longer here.

 

[Governor Sibley]

It was so weird. We would basically just take whoever didn't have any other offers (remember the year with like 8 quarterbacks!?!?). We weren't even competing for recruits for a couple years.

Mason's approach to recruiting was completely outdated. He thought that a B10 head coach was a king who worked four months a year and did not deign to go into living rooms. This is a hustling young man's job now.

 

[cduff]

The obvious counter-argument is that if our talent was so bad then why are we playing so many more seniors than Wisconsin and Iowa?

Even though we do not have a lot of seniors who were from our 05 or 06 classes, we do have a ton of former walkons, transfers, or JUCO players who are seniors.

Logan Uu
Ben Kuznia
David Pittman
Nick Tow-Arnett
Jeff Tow-Arnett
Ray Henderson
Cedric McKinley
Barrett Moen
Derrick Onwuachi
Eric Small
Simoni Lawrence
Rex Sharpe
Marcus Sherels
Traye Simmons
Blake Hauden

By my count we have about 27 seniors, which is a lot. So if anything it just becomes a nubmers game, where chances are a lot of seniors are going to be starters because there are so many of them. Regardless of how well they end up doing this year, it's still going to be the 2008 class and earlier that determines whether Brew gets extended.

 

[thailleagle]

All I know is Mason recruited Weber & Decker.......

 

[nc2mn]

All I know is Mason recruited Weber & Decker.......

Surely you don't think that was nearly enough? Where's the running back (Maroney or Barber) to go with them - not to mention the other 19 positions?

 

[Iceland12]

All I know is Mason recruited Weber & Decker.......

Very true and I'm glad we got them, but they also sum-up Mason's recruiting M.O.

Weber, who did state early on that he was going to the "U", had one other from Wisconsin. Decker had an offer from St. John's University in Collegeville.

If Mason had put as much effort into recruiting (and selling tickets) as his golf game and vacations we wouldn't even be talking about Brewster!

 

[1983]

good post

Who will captain this team next year? Who is going to fill in for our top defensive players who are graduating? It seems every year a guy steps up like Triplett. I think we need to get O-line squared away soon.

 

[thailleagle]

Imagine if Weber & Decker weren't our Offense and Clint Brewster & Ralph Spry were.......

*shivers*

 

[What Up Guy]

Who will captain this team next year? Who is going to fill in for our top defensive players who are graduating? It seems every year a guy steps up like Triplett. I think we need to get O-line squared away soon.

I dont want to talk about next year after the 5th game, BUT...losing 3/4ths of the DL, All 3 starting LBs and both starting corners...luckily we have talent behind them. Will that talent translate? This is where Brewster's recruits start to take the mantle: Cooper, Carter, Tinsley, Kirksey, Reeves, Dandridge...etc.

IMO, when Brewster's real first class in 2008 are redshirt seniors/seniors like the 2005 class is now, we will be in MUCH better shape than we are now.

 

[BrewsterBooster]

It was so weird. We would basically just take whoever didn't have any other offers (remember the year with like 8 quarterbacks!?!?). We weren't even competing for recruits for a couple years.

Mason's approach to recruiting was completely outdated. He thought that a B10 head coach was a king who worked four months a year and did not deign to go into living rooms. This is a hustling young man's job now.

Agree. This transition has been painful, and the number one pain has been a lack of talent. The Mason aloofness with his coaches doing all the work/recruiting and his unwillingness to promote the program, well, it really got old for everyone.....and it sure did not work for the recruiting trail. It was just time for a change. I will say it again....we cannot judge Brew until his first real recruiting class (Feb. 2008) is in its senior year (Fall 2011). No one likes that timeline, but it is realistic under the circumstances. I think we are in for two 6-6 seasons and then the program will break out.

 

[Schnoodler]

Agree. This transition has been painful, and the number one pain has been a lack of talent. The Mason aloofness with his coaches doing all the work/recruiting and his unwillingness to promote the program, well, it really got old for everyone.....and it sure did not work for the recruiting trail. It was just time for a change. I will say it again....we cannot judge Brew until his first real recruiting class (Feb. 2008) is in its senior year (Fall 2011). No one likes that timeline, but it is realistic under the circumstances. I think we are in for two 6-6 seasons and then the program will break out.

+1

This is the reality of the situation.

 

[Troy McClure]

Very true and I'm glad we got them, but they also sum-up Mason's recruiting M.O.

Weber, who did state early on that he was going to the "U", had one other from Wisconsin. Decker had an offer from St. John's University in Collegeville.

If Mason had put as much effort into recruiting (and selling tickets) as his golf game and vacations we wouldn't even be talking about Brewster!

Oh so true. It was pretty clear after a couple of years that the U was to be his stepping stone. Mase really seemed to start mailing it in after he didn't get the tOSU job and it became apparent he reached his coaching zenith.

Despite all that, I'm thankfull for the progress he made with the team. Too bad he couldn't get us over the hump.

 

[pharmacygopher]

All I know is Mason recruited Weber & Decker.......

I can believe that is all that you know about college football

 

[thailleagle]

I can believe that is all that you know about college football

Sarcasm much?

 

[NewEngland_Gold]

Great thread and fact-based expose on bringing GHers into reality regarding the exceptionally bad overall recruiting results during the last years under Mase. Horrid!

Beyond Mase, his boss...the AD...was also clearly asleep at the switch and didn't have a clue as to how much the program was collapsing in terms of acquiring talent under his watch.

Thanks to the web and recruiting services such as Rivals, this is unlikely to happen again in our lifetimes because GHers and fans who similarly follow the GGs closely will have no hesitancy in calling out the coach, AD and others in positions of responsibility/authority if recruiting results start to slide in the future and portend another program collapse.

Looking at the huge turnaround in recruited talent by Brew, there is no question in my view that he is doing an "A" job in this area for GN. My congratulations and encouragment to continue that strong effort. Joel M also deserves credit for coming out of a deep sleep in this area.

Of course, the big W/L question remains: does Brew have the smarts to develop into a well-rounded field general?

GHers really don't know and neither does his boss. Time will tell. In the meantime, GHers can continue to grade out his HC/Staff coaching performance on a week-by-week basis to give us an idea if he making progress, stagnating or slipping. Ardent Brew supporters may consider this somewhat unfair and short-sighted, but GN is looking for improved performance on the field as well as in talent acquisition...this is the reality of living on internet-time: there is nowhere to "hide", fans expect positive results and performance will be measured on a timely basis.

Again, my congratulations to all who contributed to this informative thread!

 

[What Up Guy]

Agree. This transition has been painful, and the number one pain has been a lack of talent. The Mason aloofness with his coaches doing all the work/recruiting and his unwillingness to promote the program, well, it really got old for everyone.....and it sure did not work for the recruiting trail. It was just time for a change. I will say it again....we cannot judge Brew until his first real recruiting class (Feb. 2008) is in its senior year (Fall 2011). No one likes that timeline, but it is realistic under the circumstances. I think we are in for two 6-6 seasons and then the program will break out.

Pretty much how I feel about it. I still think we CAN be a 8 win type team or better, even before then (Fall 2011) if they pieces fall into place. Who knows...gotta start winning games like this last one.

 

[Loyal Gopher]

Most of the losers on this board were optimistic prior to the season. When things fall apart, they go back to blaming Mason.

 

[Monty519]

It's blatantly obvious recruiting suffered mightily in those years and it has left the team with a little bit of a void of talent depth. I documented this a while back how the best talent that was brought in during those four years prior to Brewster were just flat out not sufficient enough at all to be any type of player in the Big Ten, and it has shown. The reliance we now have to put on JUCOs who may be seniors but really only have one year of Big Ten football experience renders the talk about how many seniors we have a little misleading. They're good stopgaps, but this program will thrive based on how the '08 and '09 freshmen classes mature over the next two years. If we can get the production from those groups that you would hope for considering their "rankings", then we're going to be in great shape in the future. If they don't pan out, then we're in some trouble, but it most definitely can't be any worse than it was with those classes mentioned in the OP. These kinds of things can happen with coaching transitions though. That's why people usually say a coach needs four or five years to really establish himself.

And of course many were optimistic about this season, when are fans not really optimistic about their team. But you also have to use some sense and realize, there are some holes that just couldn't be filled in two recruiting classes. They are holes that should have been filled in '05 or '06, but weren't for whatever reason. Hence, you are seeing a team that is not yet complete. But with all that said, things are looking up and are improving.

 

[Ole]

Most of the losers on this board were optimistic prior to the season. When things fall apart, they go back to blaming Mason.

I think many were optimistic. It's clear that the turnaround isn't complete yet, if you honestly look at those classes from 05, 06, 07 and tell me that the team's RS seniors, Seniors, and RS Juniors, Juniors are good, solid, big ten contributors for our team this year(as upperclassmen should be) you are just plain lying. The optimism was based on the idea that the RS So, So, and RS Fr were going to be ready day 1, they are not all there yet, flashes, here and there quality plays, but none are there yet.

These guys will form the base of our Defense in 2011
Cooper RSFr Reeves Fr Singleton Fr Maresh Fr Tinsley So
Wilhite RS Fr Jacobs RS So Kirksey So Edwards So
Carter Fr Dandridge So Watkins Fr Lewis Fr

These guys will form the base of our O in 2011
Gray Fr
Bennett RS So, Eskridge So, Whaley RSFr
Stoudemire So, Green So, McKnight So, Brandon So, Allen Fr, Keise Fr
Lair So, Hagemen Fr
Orton RSSo Michel Fr, Olson Fr, Wynn RSSo, Davis RSSo, Bunders RSSo

Where are the guys from 05,06 this year?

 

[ConferenceChamp]

I dont want to say that our poor returns from our 2005, 2006 and 2007 recruiting classes are an excuse for losing to Wisconsin. Lets be real, Wisconsin played a good game and we made too many mistakes.

Its just kind of interesting, if you look back at our recruiting, just how poor we did in those critical years for this team. Players from the 2005-2007 classes should be the meat of our team: Redshirt Seniors, Seniors, Redshirt Juniors, Juniors and redshirt sophomores.

-Just too many swings and misses overall in a 3 year span. I think the lack of quality depth and quality starters from these seasons are pretty evident, specially on the offensive line.

-Like I said, if I missed anything, messed something up, please let me know. I am no expert, just a rube who is just going off his head and the rivals.com lists from 05-07.

Threads like this one are always good for a chuckle.

I can remember the 'wasted' scholarship offers to Ben Hamilton, Greg Eslinger, MBIII, et. al.

At some point, a commitment needs to be made to coaching our current guys up.
Not sure how much this is happening, compared to the previous regime(s)?

 

[Ole]

Threads like this one are always good for a chuckle.

I can remember the 'wasted' scholarship offers to Ben Hamilton, Greg Eslinger, MBIII, et. al.

At some point, a commitment needs to be made to coaching our current guys up.
Not sure how much this is happening, compared to the previous regime(s)?

So basically what your saying is that all of those recruits(33 of 56 by my count) who are no longer here, or have proven physically to not be up to par for a Big Ten player, are simply not getting coached up enough?? The fact is these guys should be core players for us by now, most are not even here any more. That's on the recruiting not on the lack of coaching up.

 

[Schnoodler]

I think many were optimistic. It's clear that the turnaround isn't complete yet, if you honestly look at those classes from 05, 06, 07 and tell me that the team's RS seniors, Seniors, and RS Juniors, Juniors are good, solid, big ten contributors for our team this year(as upperclassmen should be) you are just plain lying. The optimism was based on the idea that the RS So, So, and RS Fr were going to be ready day 1, they are not all there yet, flashes, here and there quality plays, but none are there yet.

These guys will form the base of our Defense in 2011
Cooper RSFr Reeves Fr Singleton Fr Maresh Fr Tinsley So
Wilhite RS Fr Jacobs RS So Kirksey So Edwards So
Carter Fr Dandridge So Watkins Fr Lewis Fr

These guys will form the base of our O in 2011
Gray Fr
Bennett RS So, Eskridge So, Whaley RSFr
Stoudemire So, Green So, McKnight So, Brandon So, Allen Fr, Keise Fr
Lair So, Hagemen Fr
Orton RSSo Michel Fr, Olson Fr, Wynn RSSo, Davis RSSo, Bunders RSSo

Where are the guys from 05,06 this year?

don't forget Lipscomb. He's still intent on being a gopher.

 

[ConferenceChamp]

So basically what your saying is that all of those recruits(33 of 56 by my count) who are no longer here, or have proven physically to not be up to par for a Big Ten player, are simply not getting coached up enough?? The fact is these guys should be core players for us by now, most are not even here any more. That's on the recruiting not on the lack of coaching up.

Without going into too much detail, many of the Gopher players recruited 3-5 years ago were not-so-subtly shown the door. This coaching tactic is not unique to Brewster, as other coaches have done their version of 'scorched earth' when coming in to 'clean up' a given program.

It is rather intuitive that Brewster's predecessors, (Mason, Wacker, Gutey, Holtz, Salem---for his 1st 3 years only) did more with what they had...and in some cases, far more.

The same can be said for many of Brewster's contemporaries...Ferentz; Bielema---to a slightly lesser degree, Zook---for 3rd year only
Mark Mangino, Gary Pinkel, and so on