View change of Kill

[scools12]

I believe we've seen this movie before. Mase loaded up on 3-4 desserts, went 3-5 in the B10 (average 3.2 wins and 4.8 losses in 10 years at U), and found themselves in El Paso, Nashville, or Tempe, before Jan 1.

That's because over a four year period Brewster showed he couldn't develop players.

Some pretty good players came out of Minnesota during Mason's tenure. The program went to a lot of bowl games over that period and still couldn't develop enough with all those extra practices to reach an average of 3.5 conference wins a season.

Are the 15 extra practices meaningless? No, but not nearly as important as some on this board are trying to make them out to be.

 

[everybody knows my name]

This board is populated by morons.

I keep reading that this proves Kill thinks the Gophers can only be bowl eligible if they get 4 OOC wins. But this doesn't have to be the difference between five wins or six. It might be the difference between six wins or seven. Seven wins or eight.

And harping on the $800,000 - this isn't going to cost the U $800 grand. It's going to cost some money up front, but not that much in the end. I think we can agree that having an extra home game mitigates a significant portion of that amount. Revenue from going to a bowl game (or upgrading to a better bowl game) mitigates still more.

Coach Kill probably didn't expect the kind of backlash this move is generating, but I hope he tunes it out. He's no dummy; he's been down this road before. Don't waste energy worrying about strength of schedule when the Gophers get to play Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, and Wisconsin every year.

 

[jovs]

I guess we shouldn't expect to play in a New Years day bowl game until the end of the decade at the earliest.

 

[westcoastgopher11]

People have some unique views on coach Kill that I think evolve out of frustration from the last two losses. And let me preface this whole comment by saying that if ANYONE in this thread is talking trash about this man's poor leadership, no vision, etc, you should have the balls to revoke your posting privileges on GH until next axe week if he beats the Badgers. Because if he goes into Madison and does win, (admittedly unlikely) this guy will be hailed as the savior of this team (or worse, bitched about because we could be 7-0 and in the nat'l championship picture).

So let's keep some perspective on this MONUMENTAL schedule change that suddenly makes this program a national laughingstock. Except... wait.. A basketball school from the ACC gets canceled on by a hockey school from the WCHA in football? Stop the presses at the NYT, don't hit Submit at ESPN.com's frontpage we got ourselves a new national headline people! This is not a rare occurrence in college football, and trust me there are tens if not hundreds of these stories that pop up in different fanbases all over the country every few years. These schools aren't making changes because they are afraid of anyone, but instead do not serve to accomplish a goal for their program.

Kill's goal for this program is to take this program to consistent bowl games, to do that he wants four winnable games in the non-conference where we can iron out the kinks and get our squad ready for B1G play. How do I know that's his goal? Because that level of play is exactly one level above what we've been doing pretty consistently for as long as I've been alive, namely losing consistently and not going to bowl games. You gotta walk before you can run, and this program has been standing still at best from the last staff.

I don't doubt Kill will eventually schedule some "good" NC games down the road, but he's going to be discerning when doing it, and not to the detriment to having 8 home games a year, especially with the upcoming unbalanced 9 game B1G schedule. So let's all take a deep breathe here, jettison any "casual fans" turned off by the loss of mighty UNC, and focus on the one thing that matters. Beating those stinkin' Badgers.

 

[EG#9]

I think the motivation for what Kill is doing is threefold.

1 - We don't have the depth (and will not for a few years) to be getting through our Big Ten schedule. We need the less NC schedule to preserve some health and to gain some necessary experience for back up who will play (due to injury) in the Big Ten part of our schedule.

2 - Kill is not going to get 5 star kids. He is going to get lots of kids that can play, but they will need development. He needs to be in a bowl, any bowl, for the next few years to gain the extra 15 practices. For a freshman, that would equal 45 more practices before they become a junior!!

3 - Finally, Kill has NEVER said that he will NOT play a BCS opponent. He continues to say that he needs time to develop our program. So let's relax and give him the benefit of some time. If 4 years from now we are still 6-6 and playing in crappy bowls, then we can (and should) complain.

Responses by point

1. We don't have the depth to play ONE non-conference game against a BCS opponent? That's quite a bold claim and the roster will be at least 60% Kill(and probably significantly more than that) next year. Most significant injuries are non-contact and/or freak injuries that could occur against anyone. Harbsion went down against a terrible UNLV team this year. The vast majority of the Big Ten plays a non-conference BCS opponent every year, Minnesota can handle the same thing.

2. It would be nice if we had a coach who was recruiting more highly regarded kids. Hopefully, these kids turn out, but the coach is responsible for who he recruits. The extra practices maybe productive, but we've played in a lot of minor bowls over the last decade plus and those extra practices have not taken the program to another level. Because this is a new coach, with a new system, the extra practices claim may still have some merit.

3. Why should Jerry Kill get time that Tim Brewster did not? 4 years form now would be Jerry Kill's SIXTH season and we should complain then if he's 6-6? Tim Brewster was 6-6 in year 3 (lost to Cal in non-conference or replace with a cupcake and he's 7-5) after going 7-5 in year 2 and was THISCLOSE to being let go. Nobody disagreed with moving on from Brewster in his fourth year, but Kill should get more time because...? At the very least there should be a 3 win Big Ten season next year. Our program has consistently won 2 or more conference games, it does not need to be "rebuilt" to that point.

 

[huntster17]

Any chance to have an extra home game is a win! Who cares who we play. Viva la tailgate!

 

[MNVCGUY]

Kill's goal for this program is to take this program to consistent bowl games, to do that he wants four winnable games in the non-conference where we can iron out the kinks and get our squad ready for B1G play. How do I know that's his goal? Because that level of play is exactly one level above what we've been doing pretty consistently for as long as I've been alive, namely losing consistently and not going to bowl games. You gotta walk before you can run, and this program has been standing still at best from the last staff.

I don't doubt Kill will eventually schedule some "good" NC games down the road, but he's going to be discerning when doing it, and not to the detriment to having 8 home games a year, especially with the upcoming unbalanced 9 game B1G schedule. So let's all take a deep breathe here, jettison any "casual fans" turned off by the loss of mighty UNC, and focus on the one thing that matters. Beating those stinkin' Badgers.

I take issue with the idea of winnable non-conf games and this idea that North Carolina is somehow a guaranteed loss. 3-4 years into his coaching tenure we should be in a position to compete with a program like North Carolina, it is not like we are talking about a top 10 program year in and year out like USC.

Also the not going to bowl games comment seems odd since under Mason we went almost every year and in the 3 1/2 years Brewster had we went twice. We have not gone to top tier bowl games but we have had coaches that could get to .500. Heck Brew even got there with quality teams on the non-conf schedule.

 

[play hard]

lets let the year play out and good off-season topic. Lets get the ax this weekend and rally behind the team and Kill !!!! If we can double the wins from last year to six in year 2 this would be a successful season and a bowl game. The extra practices will help build for the future and get some exposure for future recruits. Lots of schools do this in Non-conference early on. Once he builds it up and wins he can add some tougher teams. I would like to see Kansas State, Kansas, UNI or Iowa State down the road. Lets build up a regional series and Kill supposly has the connections in these states to build a pipeline here. Thoughts ?

 

[Rescooter]

People have some unique views on coach Kill that I think evolve out of frustration from the last two losses. And let me preface this whole comment by saying that if ANYONE in this thread is talking trash about this man's poor leadership, no vision, etc, you should have the balls to revoke your posting privileges on GH until next axe week if he beats the Badgers. Because if he goes into Madison and does win, (admittedly unlikely) this guy will be hailed as the savior of this team (or worse, bitched about because we could be 7-0 and in the nat'l championship picture).

So let's keep some perspective on this MONUMENTAL schedule change that suddenly makes this program a national laughingstock. Except... wait.. A basketball school from the ACC gets canceled on by a hockey school from the WCHA in football? Stop the presses at the NYT, don't hit Submit at ESPN.com's frontpage we got ourselves a new national headline people! This is not a rare occurrence in college football, and trust me there are tens if not hundreds of these stories that pop up in different fanbases all over the country every few years. These schools aren't making changes because they are afraid of anyone, but instead do not serve to accomplish a goal for their program.

Kill's goal for this program is to take this program to consistent bowl games, to do that he wants four winnable games in the non-conference where we can iron out the kinks and get our squad ready for B1G play. How do I know that's his goal? Because that level of play is exactly one level above what we've been doing pretty consistently for as long as I've been alive, namely losing consistently and not going to bowl games. You gotta walk before you can run, and this program has been standing still at best from the last staff.

I don't doubt Kill will eventually schedule some "good" NC games down the road, but he's going to be discerning when doing it, and not to the detriment to having 8 home games a year, especially with the upcoming unbalanced 9 game B1G schedule. So let's all take a deep breathe here, jettison any "casual fans" turned off by the loss of mighty UNC, and focus on the one thing that matters. Beating those stinkin' Badgers.

This guy gets it.

Having read his contract, there is nothing in it that says "make the fans happy about who you schedule" or worse yet....not make Gopherhole posters happy. Blame Maturi then for not putting that in his contract.

What his contract does say is he needs to win games, go to bowls, and make sure his Student/Athletes are Students and represent the university well. If his goals can be better reached by cancelling UNC, then blame the person that wrote the goals, not the person that is trying to reach those goals.

When my boss gives me goals, I do my best to reach those goals. Don't blame Kill or Teague on this one. I would blame the person that wrote the contract/incentives. Winning and going to bowls are what eventually puts rears in the seats. Those that are whining about this need a little longer horizen. One game out of 12 is nothing to get bent out of shape over.

 

[dpodoll68]

When my boss gives me goals, I do my best to reach those goals.

Perish the thought. You mean, when your boss says, "Have that contract on my desk by 5:00 PM Friday", you don't respond, "Nah, that's too easy. I'll have it on your desk by 5:00 PM Friday in quadruplicate - English, Spanish, Swahili, and Braille."??? If you don't do that, you're pathetic and gutless and your boss shouldn't expect you to do anything more complicated than standard contracts by the end of this decade.

 

[Iceland12]

Blame Maturi then for not putting that in his contract.. Don't blame Kill or Teague on this one. I would blame the person that wrote the contract/incentives

Yep, anytime Teaue or Kill make a mistake that can't be rationally justified try to blame Maturi. When Mason was Head Coach the go to for blame was Voeltz.

 

[Tx_Gopher]

Also those of you clinging to the idea we will schedule better teams in the future are kidding yourself. This is the philosophy Kill is going to live by, right or wrong it is what it is.

Yeah, I haven't seen any indication that this is a one-time downgrade in the schedule. What I've seen in the Strib suggests that Kill's philosophy is four OOC cupcakes so that two conference wins gets a bowl game.

I think Brewster was a buffoon and a disaster as a coach, but the one thing I appreciated about him was his desire to upgrade the OOC schedule.

It's still early in Kill's tenure, so I'll cut him so slack, but this decision is a disappointment to me as a fan and an alum.

 

[MRJ]

This guy gets it.

Having read his contract, there is nothing in it that says "make the fans happy about who you schedule" or worse yet....not make Gopherhole posters happy. Blame Maturi then for not putting that in his contract.

What his contract does say is he needs to win games, go to bowls, and make sure his Student/Athletes are Students and represent the university well. If his goals can be better reached by cancelling UNC, then blame the person that wrote the goals, not the person that is trying to reach those goals.

When my boss gives me goals, I do my best to reach those goals. Don't blame Kill or Teague on this one. I would blame the person that wrote the contract/incentives. Winning and going to bowls are what eventually puts rears in the seats. Those that are whining about this need a little longer horizen. One game out of 12 is nothing to get bent out of shape over.

I love this response! So it's all Maturi's fault for Kills' views on scheduling? Take about deflecting blame. I can buy the whole Kill realizes we stink and is just trying to maximize opportunities for wins. But don't forget, Kill SIGNED his own freakin' contract. And I guarantee he went over it tooth-and-nail, right down to the scheduling aspects. Any scheduling requirements in there were almost certainly determined by Kill, not the University. The U already had schedules in place and Kill has already admitted that canceling the North Carolina series was one of the first things he wanted to do. Sorry, this falls completely on Kill and his lawyer if those things were put in place on the contract. Maturi and now Teague are simply morons for agreeing to go along with it. But make no mistake, this mostly Kill's doing.

 

[PurplePride]

The company line is that we're not good enough in years 2-3 of this process.
If that's the case then why don't we schedule some "Big time" opponents in 2014, 2015 or 2016?

 

[dpodoll68]

If that's the case then why don't we schedule some "Big time" opponents in 2014, 2015 or 2016?

Paying more money to buy wins is bad enough. Now you want us to pay money to buy losses?

 

[westcoastgopher11]

I take issue with the idea of winnable non-conf games and this idea that North Carolina is somehow a guaranteed loss. 3-4 years into his coaching tenure we should be in a position to compete with a program like North Carolina, it is not like we are talking about a top 10 program year in and year out like USC.

I don't think UNC would be a guaranteed loss by any means, but its definitely not closer to a W than New Mexico State is. I've got friends down in Chapel Hill and I was really looking forward to making the trip to see the boys play the Heels, not to mention I think it would've benefited us from a recruiting standpoint as NC at least initially has gotten us some players. I'm disappointed they won't be playing the game but I'm not outraged or getting all hot and bothered by the cancellation like so many seem to be. And beyond that, I understand Kill's rationale for not wanting to play the game, and its his show right now so I'm gonna let him run it the way he wants. Lastly, and its a moot point now, but I think Fedora will get UNC playing well soon, even with the sanctions. The ACC is bad and he's a pretty solid coach.

Also the not going to bowl games comment seems odd since under Mason we went almost every year and in the 3 1/2 years Brewster had we went twice. We have not gone to top tier bowl games but we have had coaches that could get to .500. Heck Brew even got there with quality teams on the non-conf schedule.

In my lifetime, and I'm dating myself as a rather youngin' but the Gophers have gone to bowl games in 9 of their 24 seasons, so a little over 1 in 4. That ratio has been helped by the last decade or so and the Mason years but its gotta be closer to 3 of 4 before we think about taking the next step and going to New Year's Day bowls.

 

[westcoastgopher11]

I love this response! So it's all Maturi's fault for Kills' views on scheduling? Take about deflecting blame. I can buy the whole Kill realizes we stink and is just trying to maximize opportunities for wins. But don't forget, Kill SIGNED his own freakin' contract. And I guarantee he went over it tooth-and-nail, right down to the scheduling aspects. Any scheduling requirements in there were almost certainly determined by Kill, not the University. The U already had schedules in place and Kill has already admitted that canceling the North Carolina series was one of the first things he wanted to do. Sorry, this falls completely on Kill and his lawyer if those things were put in place on the contract. Maturi and now Teague are simply morons for agreeing to go along with it. But make no mistake, this mostly Kill's doing.

The cancellation of UNC was Kill's doing, its his responsibility, blame implies he did something wrong. You give the guy all the tools he needs to succeed, that way there are no excuses when you evaluate the results. I understand why he cancelled the series, I don't love that he did it, but its his call.