Underpaying Coaches - Is this our top problem?

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WAGopher

WAGopher

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Last year, many of us felt DC Rossi was underpaid at $1.1 Million and was hired away for about $1.5 Million. The year before our OC Kirk Ciarrocca was hired away by Rutgers for a $300,000 annual increase.

Yesterday both inexperienced coordinators were out coached the entire second half.

What do you think?
 

WAGopher said:
Last year, many of us felt DC Rossi was underpaid at $1.1 Million and was hired away for about $1.5 Million. The year before our OC Kirk Ciarrocca was hired away by Rutgers for a $300,000 annual increase.

Yesterday both inexperienced coordinators were out coached the entire second half.

What do you think?
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PJ was out coached yesterday. I agree with you 100% , since PJ is not a Frentz who probably is responsible for 50% of Iowas wins because of his coaching and adjustments thru out the games. He is outstanding. Gophers need to break the bank on DC and OC Coodernators who know the heck how to make adjustments and etc... or we will never improve. pains me to say this because i do not think we will.
 

My assumption is one of two things: 1. PJ is too insecure to hire experienced coordinators who have had some level of success; or (and?) 2. The same coordinators would not want to work for PJ.

That said, money talks. Assuming there's an experienced coordinator or coordinators who've had some success that PJ would actually hire, what kind of money would it take to overcome #2?
 

I think Coach himself has stated we are a developmental program. That apparently has been true at times under his captainship but certainly not consistent.

We are told the Gophers are recruiting better but it still looks like we're falling behind...not even keeping up.

Whatever the source cause this is a problem.
 
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BilldGopher said:
I think Coach himself has stated we are a developmental program. That apparently has been true at times under his captainship but certainly not consistent.

We are told the Gophers are recruiting better but it still looks like we're falling behind...not even keeping up.

Whatever the source of cause this is a problem.
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The problem is with free agency essentially I’m not sure “developmental program” works as a model any more
 



Some guy said:
The problem is with free agency essentially I’m not sure “developmental program” works as a model any more
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Iowa's D on Saturday was mainly the result of development. However, I suspect you are correct that this will probably be one of the last examples as this model will not survive in the new era.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Yet all our coaches leave for promotions or more money.
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Not this staff Mikey. Prior ones before last year kept our heads above water even with PJ. We ran 13 plays last night in the 3rd quarter and gained 14 yards. Iowa took the kick coming out of the half and went down and scored in 4 plays. The route was on. Good coaches laugh at our schemes and game plans.
 



While Bucky and the Hawkeyes out recruit us a little, but not like what we saw in the second half. My point being they do a better job of developing their talent.than we do. And that’s the responsibility of the coaches..
 

In the NIL era, a development program develops talent for other programs. I can’t see how this model works without undercutting itself. Even if this hasn’t happened, the threat is always there.
 

I think underpaying the players is a far bigger deal than underpaying the coaches

If you get a top dollar roster a bunch of solid D2-D3 coaches could come in and beat a bunch of expensive coaches with mid-priced talent
 

swede2 said:
My assumption is one of two things: 1. PJ is too insecure to hire experienced coordinators who have had some level of success; or (and?) 2. The same coordinators would not want to work for PJ.

That said, money talks. Assuming there's an experienced coordinator or coordinators who've had some success that PJ would actually hire, what kind of money would it take to overcome #2?
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I think you nailed it. We bring in new coordinators on both sides of the ball multiple times over the years under PJ, but they run PJ's schemes on both sides of the ball. We've never seen variations on D at all. Same positions, same alignment. Offense has morphed a bit, but in a bad way, in my estimation. We no longer hang our hat on the run. We don't even try to establish it. I think that's a huge mistake for a program line MN.

A great coordinator can't come here & bring a successful system with them. PJ won't allow it. I wonder if that's why none of them stay very long?
 



WAGopher said:
Last year, many of us felt DC Rossi was underpaid at $1.1 Million and was hired away for about $1.5 Million. The year before our OC Kirk Ciarrocca was hired away by Rutgers for a $300,000 annual increase.

Yesterday both inexperienced coordinators were out coached the entire second half.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
While I agree with you, I think OC Kirk Ciarrocca, also wanted to go back east. My guess is we might have had to ask for more than what Rutgers offered?
 


Jack jones said:
While Bucky and the Hawkeyes out recruit us a little, but not like what we saw in the second half. My point being they do a better job of developing their talent.than we do. And that’s the responsibility of the coaches..
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Good points, but it seems to me that some weaknesses (Scheme) were recognized and exploited. We also failed to adjust to the changes they made. That or Iowa played possum the first half.
 

If underpaying asst coaches is our problem then we've had it since 60s I don't think that is THE problem. Neither is the state of our facilities. The problem is we are unable to recruit enough top talent to compete with the other conference schools -- and that has been true since the 60s. If I were in charge, I'd research why more top recruits choose Iowa, Wisconsin, et al rather than UM. If the reason is fixable, I'd work on correcting it.
 

STPGopher said:
Johnnies and Joes beat X's and O's.
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You're right. But paying players is a recent corruption of the game. Prior to that, UM wasn't keeping up with the conference in recruiting either. Something else keeps enough top recruits from choosing UM and that's been the case since the 60s. We need to figure out what that something is and correct it.
 

STPGopher said:
While I agree with you, I think OC Kirk Ciarrocca, also wanted to go back east. My guess is we might have had to ask for more than what Rutgers offered?
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Yes, it sure did seem like Ciarrocca wanted to move closer to home. And it’s also true that Fleck had two tries to replace him, and both were inexperienced at the P4 level, and the first one failed miserably.

Harbaugh may end up being a very good OC, but I feel he’s cutting his teeth at our expense. Same with DC Hetherman. BTW, shouldn’t he be up in the booth so he see the entire field?
 

I don't know. In both Power 4 games, the Gophers went into halftime with a lead and looking decent, then peed down their leg in the second half. They've gone into games with a good game plans but didn't adjust while the opponent did. I don't know if that's a sign of inexperienced assistant coaches or not.

Iowa found a way to exploit the Gophers defense in the second half then embarrassed them on the ground. I'm not aware of any key injuries. That's a sign of being outcoached.
 

Panthadad2 said:
I don't know. In both Power 4 games, the Gophers went into halftime with a lead and looking decent, then peed down their leg in the second half. They've gone into games with a good game plans but didn't adjust while the opponent did. I don't know if that's a sign of inexperienced assistant coaches or not.

Iowa found a way to exploit the Gophers defense in the second half then embarrassed them on the ground. I'm not aware of any key injuries. That's a sign of being outcoached.
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Walley was out but your main point is still true= outcoached.
 

GringaGopher said:
Walley was out but your main point is still true= outcoached.
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Yeah. I meant key injuries during the game that could have contributed to a second half meltdown. The Gopher secondary seemed to play just fine. The same can't be said of the defensive front seven nor offensive line.
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
You're right. But paying players is a recent corruption of the game. Prior to that, UM wasn't keeping up with the conference in recruiting either. Something else keeps enough top recruits from choosing UM and that's been the case since the 60s. We need to figure out what that something is and correct it.
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They don’t live anywhere close to here is the problem.
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
You're right. But paying players is a recent corruption of the game. Prior to that, UM wasn't keeping up with the conference in recruiting either. Something else keeps enough top recruits from choosing UM and that's been the case since the 60s. We need to figure out what that something is and correct it.
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We have a shit pot of players now in the NFL. Kill brought in a bunch and PJ continued that. The whole it’s the Jimmy’s and Joe’s and not the Xs and Os comments on here is nonsense. It’s astounding that even though there’s a lot of change relative to how PJ is viewed that there are still some holdouts that think the main issue that we are dealing with here isn’t PJ and his day prep and coaching. He gets his ass kicked by almost any competent opposing coach.
 

WAGopher said:
Last year, many of us felt DC Rossi was underpaid at $1.1 Million and was hired away for about $1.5 Million. The year before our OC Kirk Ciarrocca was hired away by Rutgers for a $300,000 annual increase.

Yesterday both inexperienced coordinators were out coached the entire second half.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
It’s a massive problem. Being able to keep good coordinators is huge.
 

btowngopher said:
It’s a massive problem. Being able to keep good coordinators is huge.
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Michigan State was outplayed in the second half yesterday too. Not as bad as Minnesota, but still a loss for them. Rossi's defense last year collapsed in the second half against Northwestern, Illinois and Wisconsin. All very winnable games that could have resulted in an 8-win regular season instead of 5-win. The poor second half performances started last year. No doubt, gametime adjustments need to be made as all of those three losses last year and the two losses this year were against teams with a similar talent base.

BTW, Rossi deserved to get fired after the Purdue performance last year. That was surreal.
 

btowngopher said:
It’s a massive problem. Being able to keep good coordinators is huge.
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They did get paid more money, but none of us have any idea whether we were willing to match that or whether these guys were just running away from PJ.
 

BilldGopher said:
I think Coach himself has stated we are a developmental program. That apparently has been true at times under his captainship but certainly not consistent.

We are told the Gophers are recruiting better but it still looks like we're falling behind...not even keeping up.

Whatever the source cause this is a problem.
Click to expand...
He also said we are a sleeping giant.

While we may be behind in the rankings to Wisky and Iowa are we really that far behind? Recruiting isn’t exactly a science. There really isn’t much difference in average recruit ranking.
 

It’s easier to think you are hiring better coaches with more money, probably not always true. The guy hiring the coaches may be the problem, does he delegate or just expect his orders to be followed. I think this lies with the Head Coach and AD(to a lesser extent).
Have we plucked many coaches from NDSU or SDSU? They seem to be able to make football players. Basically their teams are made up of Big Ten snubs, coaches must do something right.
 

It’s a Fleck thing more than a money thing.
Fleck makes 6m a year, OC 650k, DC 850k
Matt Campbell at Iowa State makes 4m a year, pays his OC 1.1m, DC 850k.

That’s a guy that puts his money where his mouth when saying surround yourself with great people.

PJ takes care of himself and then channels his inner social studies teacher into thinking he can develop this great coaching tree.

BTW - he went to school and took some Ed classes, that doesn’t make you a 4th grade social studies teacher PJ. I took biology my freshman year but I don’t tell people I was a Doctor.

Dude just win.
 

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