Ultimate Proof Ben is unfit to rule

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TwistingMyMelon said:
Two questions:

Why does it matter whether or not he realizes it's time to move on? You don't need people's permission to fire them.

If you hate Ben, why the hell do you listen to his radio show? I don't watch or listen to any coach's radio or TV show and that has nothing to do with whether I like the coach or not. Listening to coaches talk just isn't interesting to me even if I like the coach. I would have even less interest in listening to a coach I didn't like.

Seems like you're just a glutton for outrage.
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I turned KFAN on, didn't realize it was coaches show day. Listened to him talk about free throws and then tuned out. I don't dislike Ben Johnson, I really dislike apathy and stagnation of Minnesota Men's basketball. Last year seemed like hope, this year seems like a desert. When football was really bad Gophers mens basketball was the show and fun to attend, barn was rocking. Now it is a shell of a program. The AD is letting it wither and die, as much as the head coach. It's sad to see. After you pay to park and buy tix and the place is just dead, makes it not likely you will come back as a customer. Losing Hawkins was a big blow.
 
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USAF said:
Here's the ultimate "Johnson cant coach" moment.

They manage to get up 7, with the ball, but there's almost 6 minutes left in regulation.

And he has them go into a stall on offense.

More-fucking-ronic.
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That’s his version of the prevent defense, which we all know very well doesn’t work for the Vikings
 

Tucker32 said:
Williams Arena was the worst it has been since the last days of Monson the other night. Inside the arena, the concourses, everything - there was absolutely no life. Concession stands were closed, Gopher gear stands were closed. You could hear the coaches consistently from across the court - that doesn't happen when there is any kind of vibe in the arena. It was awful.

The reason Coyle has to make a change now is because it would get fans engaged again. The conversation would become about the future with excitement about possibilities. Local recruits I know would become interested in paying attention to the Gophers again because they would want to know who the coach is. They aren't interested at all now because they know they aren't being recruited by their future coach, and if they are they aren't interested in playing for him.

There is no reason to keep him at this point... just let Thorson take over for now. He has a fun personality and will engage the media much better than Ben does. And, the team will be much better coached. Yes, he is on the staff and is part of the dysfunction, but the positive influence he could have is largely limited by the head coach.

I have been going to Williams Arena forever and this can be an amazing program if we get the right person in, but there has to be a dramatic change now as we are losing more and more people by the day. You have to change the narrative from the present to the future.
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This post...all of it.

Going to the Barn this season has been a genuinely depressing experience.
 

Tucker32 said:
Williams Arena was the worst it has been since the last days of Monson the other night. Inside the arena, the concourses, everything - there was absolutely no life. Concession stands were closed, Gopher gear stands were closed. You could hear the coaches consistently from across the court - that doesn't happen when there is any kind of vibe in the arena. It was awful.

The reason Coyle has to make a change now is because it would get fans engaged again. The conversation would become about the future with excitement about possibilities. Local recruits I know would become interested in paying attention to the Gophers again because they would want to know who the coach is. They aren't interested at all now because they know they aren't being recruited by their future coach, and if they are they aren't interested in playing for him.

There is no reason to keep him at this point... just let Thorson take over for now. He has a fun personality and will engage the media much better than Ben does. And, the team will be much better coached. Yes, he is on the staff and is part of the dysfunction, but the positive influence he could have is largely limited by the head coach.

I have been going to Williams Arena forever and this can be an amazing program if we get the right person in, but there has to be a dramatic change now as we are losing more and more people by the day. You have to change the narrative from the present to the future.
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At this point I don't think you will find anyone that doesn't feel a change has to be made. But I still question how much you gain from doing it in season vs. waiting till the end of the season.

I don't see fans being motivated to come back to the barn just because Johnson is gone and I seriously question that anyone on the current staff would be able to turn this collection of players into something more effective than it has been.

They could fire Johnson tomorrow and I don't think you would get any complaints from the fanbase, but that doesn't mean people are going to come out to watch this collection of players who will nearly all be gone next year anyway, play for an assistant coach who is also going to be gone as well.

All firing Johnson now does is calm down the people who are afraid a change isn't going to be made after the season. But there is no possible way Coyle won't make a move after this year (if he doesn't do it sooner).
 

MNVCGUY said:
At this point I don't think you will find anyone that doesn't feel a change has to be made. But I still question how much you gain from doing it in season vs. waiting till the end of the season.

I don't see fans being motivated to come back to the barn just because Johnson is gone and I seriously question that anyone on the current staff would be able to turn this collection of players into something more effective than it has been.

They could fire Johnson tomorrow and I don't think you would get any complaints from the fanbase, but that doesn't mean people are going to come out to watch this collection of players who will nearly all be gone next year anyway, play for an assistant coach who is also going to be gone as well.

All firing Johnson now does is calm down the people who are afraid a change isn't going to be made after the season. But there is no possible way Coyle won't make a move after this year (if he doesn't do it sooner).
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I’d like to BJ turn the season around and get reupped. Still hoping!
 


gopherdudepart2 said:
I turned KFAN on, didn't realize it was coaches show day. Listened to him talk about free throws and then tuned out. I don't dislike Ben Johnson, I really dislike apathy and stagnation of Minnesota Men's basketball. Last year seemed like hope, this year seems like a desert. When football was really bad Gophers mens basketball was the show and fun to attend, barn was rocking. Now it is a shell of a program. The AD is letting it wither and die, as much as the head coach. It's sad to see. After you pay to park and buy tix and the place is just dead, makes it not likely you will come back as a customer. Losing Hawkins was a big blow.
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Oh, boo hoo! If this is the worst thing in your life, you will indeed have led a very charmed life. Suck it up! The coach is likely a dead man walking and it should be over before you know it. His successor likely will be better. Couldn't be worse and at least will be different.

I can't believe how much some of you whine about something so temporary and inconsequential. Baby men. Proof of the juvenilization of the American male that been reported recently.
 

MNVCGUY said:
At this point I don't think you will find anyone that doesn't feel a change has to be made. But I still question how much you gain from doing it in season vs. waiting till the end of the season.
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I was with you on this until about a week ago. Now...I'd rip the bandaid off ASAP.

It can't possibly get any worst. What's the harm, maybe the pressure gets taken off the boys a bit? Maybe the morgue like atmosphere at the Barn improves slightly once the inevitable has been made official? Maybe we get a head start on the search, probably won't help, but can't hurt. Any AD worth his salt (not putting Coyle in this category) is back channeling already.

Anyone who's been at the majority of games this season knows just how morbid everything has been. It's honestly difficult to describe how sad and depressing things are in person.

Put Ben out of his misery. For the players, for the fans, for everyone.

"What will be done eventually, must be done immediately."
-former Florida AD Jeremy Foley, when firing Ron Zook midseason in 2004
 


TwistingMyMelon said:
Oh, boo hoo! If this is the worst thing in your life, you will indeed have led a very charmed life. Suck it up! The coach is likely a dead man walking and it should be over before you know it. His successor likely will be better. Couldn't be worse and at least will be different.

I can't believe how much some of you whine about something so temporary and inconsequential. Baby men. Proof of the juvenilization of the American male that been reported recently.
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Do you go to the games? Do you pay thousands of dollars every season for tickets, parking, ubers, beers, whatever?

This is a fan message board, there are many people on here who use Gopher hoops as a winter escape and release. Nothing about that post was inflammatory or resembled anything close to a personal attack...
 



Zeppelin Gopher said:
I was with you on this until about a week ago. Now...I'd rip the bandaid off ASAP.

It can't possibly get any worst. What's the harm, maybe the pressure gets taken off the boys a bit? Maybe the morgue like atmosphere at the Barn improves slightly once the inevitable has been made official? Maybe we get a head start on the search, probably won't help, but can't hurt. Any AD worth his salt (not putting Coyle in this category) is back channeling already.

Anyone who's been at the majority of games this season knows just how morbid everything has been. It's honestly difficult to describe how sad and depressing things are in person.

Put Ben out of his misery. For the players, for the fans, for everyone.

"What will be done eventually, must be done immediately."
-former Florida AD Jeremy Foley, when firing Ron Zook midseason in 2004
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I'm kind of in the same spot. While logistically it probably doesn't make that much of a difference to do it now or two months from now, what I think it does is sends a message that changes are coming. I've worked for several bad managers in the past. All were kept way past their expiration dates. Had they been relieved of duty sooner, an interim named and a search commenced, it would have at least stopped the bleeding of team morale, maybe even give it a slight boost, if only by the notion that the ineffective manager is no longer there to cause further damage and those remaining can start imagining a new, brighter situation ahead.

It is clear and evident as the sun will rise tomorrow that fans far and wide have lost complete confidence in this product. I've never seen a leader that has driven something into the abyss recover. When fans have gone from being angry at your poor performance to outright laughing at your ineptitude, it's over.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
Do you go to the games? Do you pay thousands of dollars every season for tickets, parking, ubers, beers, whatever?

This is a fan message board, there are many people on here who use Gopher hoops as a winter escape and release. Nothing about that post was inflammatory or resembled anything close to a personal attack...
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If one hates the product but continues to pay "thousands of dollars every season" for it, who is to blame? Am I supposed to feel sorry for someone like that? No one puts a gun to their heads.

Sorry, but I'll save my empathy for the destitute, unsheltered and starving animals, people with terrible diseases and disfigurements, people that have experienced loss of a loved one in terrible or unjust circumstances, or people who have experienced significant hardships through no fault of their own. I think it's preposterous that you should even suggest that I should feel badly for people who have "thousands of dollars" to spend on season tickets to watch a bad team and then feel angry about being cheated.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
If one hates the product but continues to pay "thousands of dollars every season" for it, who is to blame? Am I supposed to feel sorry for someone like that? No one puts a gun to their heads.

Sorry, but I'll save my empathy for the destitute, unsheltered and starving animals, people with terrible diseases and disfigurements, people that have experienced loss of a loved one in terrible or unjust circumstances, or people who have experienced significant hardships through no fault of their own. I think it's preposterous that you should even suggest that I should feel badly for people who have "thousands of dollars" to spend on season tickets to watch a bad team and then feel angry about being cheated.
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Who suggested that exactly?

Nobody said you have to feel sorry about people for being a Gopher basketball fan.

If you're trying to lure me into a stupid maze of circular logic that compares the suffering in the world vs. our struggling hoops program, then you've lost the plot completely.
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
If you're trying to lure me into a stupid maze of circular logic that compares the suffering in the world vs. our struggling hoops program, then you've lost the plot completely.
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I'm not trying to lure you into anything. I'm telling you exactly how I feel about the whiners. I care about being honest. I don't care about being popular.
 



TwistingMyMelon said:
I can't believe how much some of you whine about something so temporary and inconsequential. Baby men. Proof of the juvenilization of the American male that been reported recently.
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Well it is a message board devoted specifically to Gophers hoops. If you can't commiserate/complain/rejoice/whatever with fellow Gopher fans about the state of the program here, then where do you go? You could probably make the argument that sports fandom in general is "temporary and inconsequential" so why bother at all? What is your motivation?
 


Minnesota is a basketball state, in terms of producing really good players. With how many the state has produced, there is only 1 on the roster, (very grateful he's here). You're not going to get every one, but having a competent coach with a fun style and a potential for winning normally would attract a couple, at least garner their interest. In the last few years, the good ones either put MN in their final few teams out of courtesy, or they don't give a fuck and don't even bother. Most of the coaches that have been mentioned on this forum would do that.
 


bga1 said:
I am not arguing whether Lynch should have been kicked off or not, but that was a really strong team. They would have had to gotten hot at tourney time to get to the Final Four but it was doable for that squad.
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The year he got kicked off the team didn’t they go 4-14 in the big ten?
 

JZABR said:
Minnesota is a basketball state, in terms of producing really good players. With how many the state has produced, there is only 1 on the roster, (very grateful he's here). You're not going to get every one, but having a competent coach with a fun style and a potential for winning normally would attract a couple, at least garner their interest. In the last few years, the good ones either put MN in their final few teams out of courtesy, or they don't give a fuck and don't even bother. Most of the coaches that have been mentioned on this forum would do that.
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Every top player who left MN said he would have stayed if Pitino would not have been the HC. A brutal hit job
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Oh, boo hoo! If this is the worst thing in your life, you will indeed have led a very charmed life. Suck it up! The coach is likely a dead man walking and it should be over before you know it. His successor likely will be better. Couldn't be worse and at least will be different.

I can't believe how much some of you whine about something so temporary and inconsequential. Baby men. Proof of the juvenilization of the American male that been reported recently.
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Solidly in the 10 worst posts in GH history.

Spectacularly idiotic.

Congrats.
 

golfing18now said:
Well it is a message board devoted specifically to Gophers hoops. If you can't commiserate/complain/rejoice/whatever with fellow Gopher fans about the state of the program here, then where do you go? You could probably make the argument that sports fandom in general is "temporary and inconsequential" so why bother at all? What is your motivation?
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Good question! I'm not sure. Maybe I should think about that a little more. Unlike an actor, I usually don't think of "what is my motivation?" before saying my lines. Maybe I should but I might be too old to change.

You're right about the general condition of "sports fandom" but we keep coming back because we'd rather have it, warts and all, than not.

You are correct. This is a message board and people have the right to say what they want. But, people also have the right to criticize those comments. Free speech should work for all sides (even if some are a little more caustic than others :devilish:).

As usual, a pleasure to converse with you!
 

MNVCGUY said:
All firing Johnson now does is calm down the people who are afraid a change isn't going to be made after the season. But there is no possible way Coyle won't make a move after this year (if he doesn't do it sooner).
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That's not meaningless. It's honestly conflicting even rooting for them to win right now. We shouldn't have to feel that way. Also, being able to openly start the search does matter. "Back channeling" isn't everything. Finally, I do actually think Thorsen knows basketball and I'd be curious to see if he can squeeze any improvement out of this roster with their full attention.
 

bga1 said:
I am not arguing whether Lynch should have been kicked off or not, but that was a really strong team. They would have had to gotten hot at tourney time to get to the Final Four but it was doable for that squad.
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The 2017-2018 team Lynch got kicked off of had already lost to Miami and Arkansas in the non-conference and gotten it's arse kicked at Nebraska. They looked like a bubble team at best even while he was playing. Plus Coffey got hurt and any chance of a big run pretty much went down with him.
 

bga1 said:
I am not arguing whether Lynch should have been kicked off or not, but that was a really strong team. They would have had to gotten hot at tourney time to get to the Final Four but it was doable for that squad.
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It was, possibly talent wise, if fully healthy and clicking. Never came close to happening.

If our top 6 that year (Mason, McBrayer, Coffey, Murphy, Lynch, Curry) was fully fit and firing maybe...but we'll never know.

We also jizzed our pants prematurely about Jelly Roll coming into that season...
 

howeda7 said:
That's not meaningless. It's honestly conflicting even rooting for them to win right now. We shouldn't have to feel that way. Also, being able to openly start the search does matter. "Back channeling" isn't everything. Finally, I do actually think Thorsen knows basketball and I'd be curious to see if he can squeeze any improvement out of this roster with their full attention.
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I wonder if there isn't a record where Coyle would pull the plug. Something like 0-10 in conference play or something like that.

Anyone know if Coyle has ever fired a coach in season? If things continue on the same downward trend it wouldn't shock me to see it happen sooner rather than later.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I wonder if there isn't a record where Coyle would pull the plug. Something like 0-10 in conference play or something like that.

Anyone know if Coyle has ever fired a coach in season? If things continue on the same downward trend it wouldn't shock me to see it happen sooner rather than later.
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Coyle has ideal candidate. The guy with the disposable diaper analogy nailed it.
 



Spaulding!No! said:
Every top player who left MN said he would have stayed if Pitino would not have been the HC. A brutal hit job
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I believe this was the primary reason Ben was hired. Not dei or anything else but this. Dei reasons may have contributed a small amount of push to hire him but the local players not liking Pitino was the main reason.
 

JZABR said:
Minnesota is a basketball state, in terms of producing really good players. With how many the state has produced, there is only 1 on the roster, (very grateful he's here). You're not going to get every one, but having a competent coach with a fun style and a potential for winning normally would attract a couple, at least garner their interest. In the last few years, the good ones either put MN in their final few teams out of courtesy, or they don't give a fuck and don't even bother. Most of the coaches that have been mentioned on this forum would do that.
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The number of Minnesota players on the roster is not the problem. We currently have seven according to Marcus. Do we need ten? Twelve? We have had a number of players from Minnesota over the last few regimes (Oturu/Coffey/Garcia/etc.) It's been proven over and over again the best players (top 40ish) rarely stay home and that was before NIL. It will be worse now. I fear this mentality will lead to the selection of an inferior coach because he has "Minnesota connections". Winning will lead to better players wanting to play here. Find a basketball coach, not a "Minnesota connection".
 

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