Uh Tubby? You have a scorer named Joe Coleman on your bench.

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Keep proving me wrong Joe.... I like being wrong when the player plays better than I thought he would.
 

doctor j said:
I made a post here last spring regarding Joe Coleman that was less than complimentary. I had watched him for the first time ( I think in the 1st half of the finals of the hs basketball tourney) and was completely unimpressed. I was hoping I'd was wrong and I'd see a different Joe Coleman next year--he was Mr Basketball afterall. What I've seen this year confirms my perception of him as a player--he should never have been recruited. He is a division 2 basketball talent and anyone with an eye would recognize it immediately.
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Got it, chief. Thanks for setting us all straight.
 

zambam said:
Except Welch already turns the ball over quite a bit without handling the ball as much as a PG does. Welch is averaging 2.5 TO a game and Mav 1.1.
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Meaningless stats. What are the TO per minutes played? Welch playes more than twice as much as Mav so I dont' think your stats mean much.
 

I think I've been watching the wrong Joe Coleman. The one I've seen is a heck of a player.

doctor j said:
I made a post here last spring regarding Joe Coleman that was less than complimentary. I had watched him for the first time ( I think in the 1st half of the finals of the hs basketball tourney) and was completely unimpressed. I was hoping I'd was wrong and I'd see a different Joe Coleman next year--he was Mr Basketball afterall. What I've seen this year confirms my perception of him as a player--he should never have been recruited. He is a division 2 basketball talent and anyone with an eye would recognize it immediately. As fans we're not here to celebrate when one of our players can bounce the ball!! We're here to support the program in the hope Tubby can resurrect this once proud program to national prominence. We should look at these players critically ie relative to other v good players around the country so we have an idea if the program is moving in the right direction. 3 Minnesota boys are prominent contributors to the Badger team that recently took NC to the brink. All 3 of them were less highly regarded than some of the players on this team. Bo can recognize talent. Then he can recruit it. Tubby, I fear, can do neither. We're in for a long season.
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doctor j said:
I made a post here last spring regarding Joe Coleman that was less than complimentary. I had watched him for the first time ( I think in the 1st half of the finals of the hs basketball tourney) and was completely unimpressed. I was hoping I'd was wrong and I'd see a different Joe Coleman next year--he was Mr Basketball afterall. What I've seen this year confirms my perception of him as a player--he should never have been recruited. He is a division 2 basketball talent and anyone with an eye would recognize it immediately. As fans we're not here to celebrate when one of our players can bounce the ball!! We're here to support the program in the hope Tubby can resurrect this once proud program to national prominence. We should look at these players critically ie relative to other v good players around the country so we have an idea if the program is moving in the right direction. 3 Minnesota boys are prominent contributors to the Badger team that recently took NC to the brink. All 3 of them were less highly regarded than some of the players on this team. Bo can recognize talent. Then he can recruit it. Tubby, I fear, can do neither. We're in for a long season.
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Would you like to know, how I know, that you are a complete moron?

Please see some stats below comparing MN/WI players THIS SEASON, that were not already committed to one school or the other before Tubby Smith was hired as head coach of the Gophers. There are two on the Gophers roster (plus Trevor, but he doesn't really have stats this year and everyone knows he has talent) and two on the Wisconsin roster (JT and JB both committed to WI before Tubby put on his first maroon polo) Check out the below numbers per 40 minutes.

Year Min Pts Rbds Assists Steals TO
Joe Coleman Freshman 110 18.55 5.45 2.55 1.82 1.45
Rodney Williams Junior 347 13.03 6.22 3.46 2.54 1.61

Jordan Smith Freshman 5 0.00 8.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Mike Bruesewitz Junior 260 10.00 8.92 2.15 0.62 1.23

Maybe stop watching basketball through your red & white glasses?

Joe and Rodney have put up much better numbers than their Badger counterpart. I'd say Tubby is doing just fine with the MN kids.
 

doctor j said:
I made a post here last spring regarding Joe Coleman that was less than complimentary. I had watched him for the first time ( I think in the 1st half of the finals of the hs basketball tourney) and was completely unimpressed. I was hoping I'd was wrong and I'd see a different Joe Coleman next year--he was Mr Basketball afterall. What I've seen this year confirms my perception of him as a player--he should never have been recruited. He is a division 2 basketball talent and anyone with an eye would recognize it immediately. As fans we're not here to celebrate when one of our players can bounce the ball!! We're here to support the program in the hope Tubby can resurrect this once proud program to national prominence. We should look at these players critically ie relative to other v good players around the country so we have an idea if the program is moving in the right direction. 3 Minnesota boys are prominent contributors to the Badger team that recently took NC to the brink. All 3 of them were less highly regarded than some of the players on this team. Bo can recognize talent. Then he can recruit it. Tubby, I fear, can do neither. We're in for a long season.
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I had a perception of you last spring that was less than complimentary. I had seen your post and was completely unimpressed. I was hoping I was wrong and would see someone who wasn't an idiot in the future. I thought no one could be that dumb afterall. What I just read confirms my perception of you as a person--a complete idiot who has no idea what they're talking about.
 

Coleman has the highest offensive rating on the team right now in his limited minutes. I think he will be an excellent player by the time he is an upperclassman. The kid loves contact.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
I know it's still early, but just look at what Coleman has done with a tiny bit more playing time since my last post:

In the past 3 games, Coleman is only averaging 13 minutes/game. His stats:

10.3 pts/game
2 assists/game
1.3 rebs/game
0.7 steals/game
6:1 assist/TO ratio (the 1 TO was Hollins not catching his bounce pass today)
70% FG (9/13)
100% 3pt (2/2)
73% FT (11/15)

Now, I know he has areas where he needs to improve (namely defense, although I don't see him as any worse than our other guards for his experience...and he did take a nice charge today, but he can work on his D).

I just don't know how you can keep him off the floor; he is super aggressive and just finds ways to score. Who knows how much PT he'll get this year, but I think it would be a mistake to keep him on the pine this year when we have a major lack of scoring options on this team. I've been pretty excited with his play lately...

Just my $.02.
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I think you'll see his time come up as he gets more comfortable. As I noted earlier, I felt like he wasn't right out there, and it seems like he's getting more and more comfortable, which bodes well, cause I honestly think we'll need him in B1G play as he is definitely not afraid of contact. Him, along with Dre Hollins (hopefully he can get that bulky ankle right) will need to make some impact in conference season if we want to make noise, IMO.
 



I still think Coleman needs to be seeing more clock than he is out there...

He seems to be the only one that is aggressive 100% of the time and really goes after it...when a lot of our guys look like they don't even want to be out there.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
I still think Coleman needs to be seeing more clock than he is out there...

He seems to be the only one that is aggressive 100% of the time and really goes after it...when a lot of our guys look like they don't even want to be out there.
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100 percent agree. He was the only guy attacking the zone tonight.
 

Anyone else catch the twitter exchange between Coleman and Tyus Jones after tonight's game?
 





Gold Vision said:
Anyone else catch the twitter exchange between Coleman and Tyus Jones after tonight's game?
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Yeah I saw that. Always makes me wonder about tubby when I see things like that ... But he keeps getting recruits, no one comes out and blasts him (a la the OBrien kid) and even Royce talked about how much he loved tubby. So i have no clue what it means and I try not to think about it.
 

scher215 said:
Yeah I saw that. Always makes me wonder about tubby when I see things like that ... But he keeps getting recruits, no one comes out and blasts him (a la the OBrien kid) and even Royce talked about how much he loved tubby. So i have no clue what it means and I try not to think about it.
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Same here.
 

scher215 said:
Yeah I saw that. Always makes me wonder about tubby when I see things like that ... But he keeps getting recruits, no one comes out and blasts him (a la the OBrien kid) and even Royce talked about how much he loved tubby. So i have no clue what it means and I try not to think about it.
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I don't really get it though. Tubby said in an interview today how he wants Coleman to be more aggressive like he is in practice. Maybe he's talking strictly about PT.
 

Gold Vision said:
I don't really get it though. Tubby said in an interview today how he wants Coleman to be more aggressive like he is in practice. Maybe he's talking strictly about PT.
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No clue. As much as I do like tubby as a coach, it still makes me wonder. Damien and Cobbs had a similar convo, and when Damien saw it got in gopher hole came right out and said he loved coach smith basically. Al was watching a game last year and no one would be aggressive and "he knew what was going on" i don't know if tubby scares guys, they don't want to get benched, or they are just really nervous or maybe we read into every thing way too much. No clue, but it does make you think.
 

scher215 said:
No clue. As much as I do like tubby as a coach, it still makes me wonder. Damien and Cobbs had a similar convo, and when Damien saw it got in gopher hole came right out and said he loved coach smith basically. Al was watching a game last year and no one would be aggressive and "he knew what was going on" i don't know if tubby scares guys, they don't want to get benched, or they are just really nervous or maybe we read into every thing way too much. No clue, but it does make you think.
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I think Tubby is a great guy. He seems like a horrid communicator. Listen to him in interviews. You end up having no clue what he really wants guys to do out there. When guys dribble drive he says they dribble too much, when they shoot they shoot too much, when they don't shoot they don't shoot enough. Tonight he said the problem was that they don't hit their shots. Then he said the problem (same interview) was that they didn't get it inside enough. Only problem is that most times when they did Ralph turned it over.

I just think Tubby sends mixed messages and guys don't feel confident in what they are doing. The guys that end up scoring are guys that have the guts to say - I don't care I'm going for it. Westbrook and Hoff come to mind and Armelin is another that seems to just play through it. He finds himself on the bench quickly though. All of the above is why Tubby has never had a guy average above 13 points a game here and also why we never have an impact freshman scorer- especially at the guard position. These guys either have no confidence or they are bad shooters- or both. Confidence comes from coaching.
 

Completely agree with the mixed messages take. After the last game Tubby said guys needed to take the ball to the basket. Joe Coleman was the only guy taking the ball to the basket tonight and he played all of 9 minutes.
 

Tubby prefers we pass the ball 5 ft away from the 3 point line until we have 5 seconds left on the shot clock. His offense is painful to watch. I think players are beaten after games if they play aggressively. God forbid a player ever drive to the hoop in our half-court offense and actually make a layup. And people on here hated Westbrook...

scher215 said:
No clue. As much as I do like tubby as a coach, it still makes me wonder. Damien and Cobbs had a similar convo, and when Damien saw it got in gopher hole came right out and said he loved coach smith basically. Al was watching a game last year and no one would be aggressive and "he knew what was going on" i don't know if tubby scares guys, they don't want to get benched, or they are just really nervous or maybe we read into every thing way too much. No clue, but it does make you think.
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underground629 said:
. ... And people on here hated Westbrook...
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Amen to that. Never understood the distaste for Westbrook.

Give me a few guys who are capable of or at least not afraid to say, "F it, I'm going to the rack." Seems to me Armelin and Coleman are 2 guys that at least try to make something happen. I'd rather see that than what we did most of last night.
 

It seems like the least athletic players get the most PT. Austin wasn't a B1G player last year and he isn't one this year. Maverick should not get more time on the court than Andre Hollins. Ralph has a nice outside shot but he is slow and soft in the paint. Eliason is scattered and frenetic, but very active and with the instincts to bang. Armelin shoots too much but at least he is active as hell and he makes things happen. Even with a depleted front court, Ingram shouldn't be allowed to take his warm ups off. Coleman, Armelin and Dre Hollins need to play at least 20 minutes a night for the gophers to be successful and I would also give Eliason 15 minutes for a couple of games to see what happens.
 

jamiche said:
It seems like the least athletic players get the most PT. Austin wasn't a B1G player last year and he isn't one this year. Maverick should not get more time on the court than Andre Hollins. Ralph has a nice outside shot but he is slow and soft in the paint. Eliason is scattered and frenetic, but very active and with the instincts to bang. Armelin shoots too much but at least he is active as hell and he makes things happen. Even with a depleted front court, Ingram shouldn't be allowed to take his warm ups off. Coleman, Armelin and Dre Hollins need to play at least 20 minutes a night for the gophers to be successful and I would also give Eliason 15 minutes for a couple of games to see what happens.
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Disagree heavily on Armenlin over Austin. Austin is 10 times the player chip is. I like chip as an offensive spark, but Austin needs to be on the floor.

I do agree on less time for Ingram and Mav, Both great kids who I am sure work their butt off, and much more time for Dre and joe. That not only helps for the future, but also gives you the best chance to win now, IMO.
 

I think Colemans bench time in the 2nd half last night came from Gaten's hitting two 3's on him in the first half- but from my seats it looked like ok D with better O. sometimes that happens but Tubby punishes a kid anyway.

When players see aggressiveness result in bench time and passive "make no mistakes and make nothing happen" play rewarded this is what we will get.
 

jamiche said:
Coleman, Armelin and Dre Hollins need to play at least 20 minutes a night for the gophers to be successful and I would also give Eliason 15 minutes for a couple of games to see what happens.
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+1000, especially since we are likely to see a steady dose of zone defenses after last night. Unfortunately, given how stubborn Tubby is, I fear it isn't likely to happen.
 

scher215 said:
Disagree heavily on Armenlin over Austin. Austin is 10 times the player chip is. I like chip as an offensive spark, but Austin needs to be on the floor.

I do agree on less time for Ingram and Mav, Both great kids who I am sure work their butt off, and much more time for Dre and joe. That not only helps for the future, but also gives you the best chance to win now, IMO.
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Coleman should get most of Austin's minutes.

Disagree with you on the Austin/Armelin comparison. Austin looks like a player and his father is a coach, but that's about where it ends. He hurts them badly offensively and he is not nearly the presence defensively that his reputation suggests. Chip is aggressive as hell, goes to the basket and gets in passing lanes. Tubby doesn't like him because he is kind of his own man out there, shoots too much and doesn't play within the "system." I can live with Chip's mistakes because he makes other teams work.
 

jamiche said:
It seems like the least athletic players get the most PT. Austin wasn't a B1G player last year and he isn't one this year.
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Wait - are you insinuating that Austin Hollins is not athletic? I stopped reading the rest of your post after that.
 

Chip is definitely aggressive, and that trait probably needed to be used more yesterday. But to suggest that Austin Hollins is not athletic and isn't a B1G caliber player is quite surprising to me. He wasn't hitting his shots yesterday, yeah, but he's more than shown he has some athleticism and causes problems defensively getting tips and steals, etc.

I just can't understand some of the takes I read on this board sometimes, honestly.

Regarding Coleman, very disappointed to not see him garner more minutes yesterday, considering the circumstances. We needed guys out there who would be willing to attack that zone. I think giving Coleman and Chip minutes yesterday would have proven beneficial. We were giving up buckets anyway, might as well at least try to get the game moving by getting guys out there who are gonna scrap for buckets and try to apply pressure defensively.
 

jamiche said:
Eliason is scattered and frenetic, but very active and with the instincts to bang.
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EE bangs about as much as Sampson does. I don't get how anyone (not saying you) sees the all-B1G type of player from what has been displayed so far?
 

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