Ubben: There is one clear way to stop the chaotic roster turnover taking over college football

[Great Plains Gopher]

Paying the players is even worse because big schools like Alabama will have more money for the evil deed. Just restore the NCAA rules that kept the ship tight. Wait a year to transfer, cut down on NIL (a terrible idea, as players get huge amounts in scholarship as it is), fight the courts on it, restore some discipline and common sense.

 

[Some guy]

Paying the players is even worse because big schools like Alabama will have more money for the evil deed. Just restore the NCAA rules that kept the ship tight. Wait a year to transfer, cut down on NIL (a terrible idea, as players get huge amounts in scholarship as it is), fight the courts on it, restore some discipline and common sense.

Which courts do you propose they fight on it? Which court do you appeal to when the Supreme Court has implied you’re breaking anti-trust law

 

[WAGopher]

Amateur college sports were introduced to provide another aspect to the college experience. Nearly all sports started out as club sports and then exhibition games with high schools and nearby colleges. Of course that expanded and the amateur model has been the norm for over 125 years.

Now we see what could be the end of collegiate amateur athletics. The reason paying athletes incurred a penalty was to prevent schools from buying players and to stay away from bringing the complexities and negatives of professional sports to campus.

Of course there always has been and always will be cheaters. And of course, the NCAA ruined their credibility by over reacting to some schools infractions and pretty ignoring them for others.

NIL has made college athletics a mess. Yes, some adjustments had to be made like lifetime health care for serious injuries, an increase in stipends so all athletes can enjoy college life, paid travel home, and paid travel for family to watch some live games.

But unfettered NIL is already so far beyond anything reasonable and only a few athletes will benefit. I know there are people that will say it is the athlete’s right to benefit as much as they can from NIL. However, that is ignoring schools pretty much buying players, and puts most other schools at a large disadvantage.

The NIL is out of the bag, and I doubt it can be out back. Reasonable conference or NCAA rules, or national legislation needs to be addressed. I dislike legislation because it is hard to change when needed.

Anyway, thank you for reading.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Which courts do you propose they fight on it? Which court do you appeal to when the Supreme Court has implied you’re breaking anti-trust law

* Kavanaugh, and all he said was the issue would be examined more thoroughly.

 

[Some guy]

* Kavanaugh, and all he said was the issue would be examined more thoroughly.

They literally aren’t moving forward because they don’t think they will win if sued. And have said as much. You can pretend that case didn’t have massive implications if you want.

 

[disco]

Reasonable conference or NCAA rules, or national legislation needs to be addressed. I dislike legislation because it is hard to change when needed.

And as has been pointed out multiple times, NCAA rules would be challenged in court again, and would not be upheld.

 

[Wally]

the nfl collective bargaining agreement holds down the salary of players specifically at the top by having roster size minimums and a salary cap. If there was no salary cap you don’t think some of the top players would be making more? You’re dreaming

With the NFL profit sharing arrangements i doubt they would make significantly more. Sure a few owners might spend more out of their pocket. It would turn football into a joke like baseball and wreck the league. I wouldn't watch for the same reasons I don't watch baseball.

 

[WAGopher]

And as has been pointed out multiple times, NCAA rules would be challenged in court again, and would not be upheld.

Universities have the right to run athletics how they want to, and the NCAA is an arm of those schools. Everything they do is governed by the schools with changes approved by voting from the university presidents.

Yes, rules and regulations that violate laws or the constitution should be defeated in court. But all others can be implemented.

The Supreme Court ruling was rather narrow and allows for well crafted and fair rules. I just don’t think the universities, nor the NCAA, currently have the will to initiate those changes. At least there isn’t any chatter from them about curtailing the NIL. Maybe Saban can lead a crusade, but I think it’s going to take a large group of schools to get something started.

So we’ll just have to see where this leads to and hope for the best. Pass the popcorn.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

They literally aren’t moving forward because they don’t think they will win if sued. And have said as much. You can pretend that case didn’t have massive implications if you want.

Kavanaugh also said he is open and supports the idea of paying players or player unions but I haven’t seen the NCAA move forward on that despite saber rattling from senator Booker and others.

You’re attributing a lot to a newly minted justice who was amped up enough to add an opinion. Somebody at the NCAA maybe peeved him. It was a little wierd to be honest. People accept the NFL and NCAA restraint of trade as a matter of accepted life.

The NCAA changed NIL for many reasons most likely. Maybe litigation fatigue had something to do with it but they’ve been fighting this battle for decades.

 

[Some guy]

Kavanaugh also said he is open and supports the idea of paying players or player unions but I haven’t seen the NCAA move forward on that despite saber rattling from senator Booker and others.

You’re attributing a lot to a newly minted justice who was amped up enough to add an opinion. Somebody at the NCAA maybe peeved him. It was a little wierd to be honest. People accept the NFL and NCAA restraint of trade as a matter of accepted life.

The NCAA changed NIL for many reasons most likely. Maybe litigation fatigue had something to do with it but they’ve been fighting this battle for decades.

You can keep saying the ruling didn’t matter and I’ll continue to take the ncaa at their word for why they aren’t standardizing NIL

 

[Some guy]

With the NFL profit sharing arrangements i doubt they would make significantly more. Sure a few owners might spend more out of their pocket. It would turn football into a joke like baseball and wreck the league. I wouldn't watch for the same reasons I don't watch baseball.

1) Baseball has more parity than football
2) lol

 

[Gophers_4life]

*apologies if there is a better thread to put this in, please move it*

 

[Gophers_4life]

Meaning, for example, if you buy a new Mo Ibrahim jersey for the 2022 season, he'll get a piece.

So we all need to buy more jerseys! Right?

 

[MNVCGUY]

*apologies if there is a better thread to put this in, please move it*

This right here is what NIL was supposed to be about. But nobody is surprised that this isn't what it has become about in the arms race that is college athletics.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I think it's the perfect storm right now and may take awhile to sort itself out. The increase transfers is at least partly caused by the extra year from the pandemic. Let's see what it looks like in a few years once most or all extra year players use up their eligibility. Giving everyone an extra year of eligibility is always going to squeeze some guys out.

 

[Gophers1992]

So people who are anti-NIL, please clarify for me, what is your reasoning besides fear of the sport becoming less competitive? I just have a hard time understanding the idea that people with a very valuable skill set should be prevented from making money off of it, simply because it makes people uncomfortable?

Serious inquiry, I would really like to hear people's reasoning.

 

[upnorthkid]

So people who are anti-NIL, please clarify for me, what is your reasoning besides fear of the sport becoming less competitive? I just have a hard time understanding the idea that people with a very valuable skill set should be prevented from making money off of it, simply because it makes people uncomfortable?

Serious inquiry, I would really like to hear people's reasoning.

you have different points in your questions you're asking

Fear the game becomes less competitive is a different reason than "I'm uncomfortable".

Reasons I've heard (not saying I agree with any of these, rather listing them), in addition to fear of game becoming less competitive is exploitation of student/athletes (offering "contracts" for NIL that may hurt kids that do not understand the contract underwriting/what it entails, particularly given this is all signed of their own accord with no University input and many kids can't hire agents due to financial concerns), further pushing the movement away from education being a pillar of the sport/game (ie furthering the Cardale Jones "we ain't here to play school" idea by essentially making this a semi-pro league), general dissatisfaction that we continue to make sports about money and idolize athletes from far too early an age (this probably fits in the uncomfortable category somewhat), that this was implemented with little to no oversight/boundaries that can be set on who/where the money comes from, that it depletes a "school's" ability to recruit a player for instead recruiting by a "brand", and that it depreciates the idea of what collegiate athletics were put in place to do.

Clearly all of this started long ago when people started trying to monetize college sports. It's not the athletes fault we are where we are and I don't think many people disagree with compensating athletes (and some argue we already have been doing this adequately prior). It is more the mechanism altering the landscape of college sports, which is very different that being uncomfortable about college kids earning money (the same reason no one really cared about Manziel signing autographs or tattoo gate other than the NCAA because it was an infraction).

I could add on for quite awhile but personally, I'm fine with the athletes making more. This mechanism just isn't it to me. Not saying we should stay the same as we were prior to NIL, but this just changes the method to exploiting certain people

 

[Some guy]

So people who are anti-NIL, please clarify for me, what is your reasoning besides fear of the sport becoming less competitive? I just have a hard time understanding the idea that people with a very valuable skill set should be prevented from making money off of it, simply because it makes people uncomfortable?

Serious inquiry, I would really like to hear people's reasoning.

I’m not anti NIL but the sport sucks right now.

1) They need to ban you from competition for one year if you transfer. No waivers. No exceptions.
2) for competitive balance they need to set a hard roster limit at 85. You can have 85 at practice. That’s it, done deal. We do it for game rosters time to set practice roster limits.
How do you disperse talent more? I would love to see it at 75 for a roster limit.


I’m also fine with it the way it is. But if you actually want competitive balance and roster stability…it has less to do with NIL or portal and more to do with the above

 

[Gophers1992]

you have different points in your questions you're asking

Fear the game becomes less competitive is a different reason than "I'm uncomfortable".

Reasons I've heard (not saying I agree with any of these, rather listing them), in addition to fear of game becoming less competitive is exploitation of student/athletes (offering "contracts" for NIL that may hurt kids that do not understand the contract underwriting/what it entails, particularly given this is all signed of their own accord with no University input and many kids can't hire agents due to financial concerns), further pushing the movement away from education being a pillar of the sport/game (ie furthering the Cardale Jones "we ain't here to play school" idea by essentially making this a semi-pro league), general dissatisfaction that we continue to make sports about money and idolize athletes from far too early an age (this probably fits in the uncomfortable category somewhat), that this was implemented with little to no oversight/boundaries that can be set on who/where the money comes from, that it depletes a "school's" ability to recruit a player for instead recruiting by a "brand", and that it depreciates the idea of what collegiate athletics were put in place to do.

Clearly all of this started long ago when people started trying to monetize college sports. It's not the athletes fault we are where we are and I don't think many people disagree with compensating athletes (and some argue we already have been doing this adequately prior). It is more the mechanism altering the landscape of college sports, which is very different that being uncomfortable about college kids earning money (the same reason no one really cared about Manziel signing autographs or tattoo gate other than the NCAA because it was an infraction).

I could add on for quite awhile but personally, I'm fine with the athletes making more. This mechanism just isn't it to me. Not saying we should stay the same as we were prior to NIL, but this just changes the method to exploiting certain people

Thank you for the reasonable and well thought out response, I appreciate it. Exploitation is definitely a reasonable concern, I just don't know what the solution is. The solution is not to go back to old rule of no freedom to make money, I think we can all agree on that. The same fears could be said about 22 year old NFL players, or 19 year old NBA players

Should we idolize athletes the way many do? Probably not, but if that's what people are interested in, there's no fighting it. They could do away with scholarships and make athletes fend for themselves, but I don't imagine that having a positive outcome.

I think we just have to all realize that CFB is a very flawed sport, in terms of recruiting advantages, money, location, etc. Trying to preserve some false sense of amateurism by restricting the ability of young men to earn money just isn't reasonable nor fair. I think NIL provides the perfect system of not forcing universities to pay salaries to guys who are probably not even worth the scholarship they get, but doesn't restrict guys who earn the universities huge dollars from essentially getting a piece of the pie (albeit from other sources). It's capitalism at its finest.

 

[Go Gophs]

You transfer, you have to sit out a year. Dig into Alabama, Ohio State, Duke, UNC, etc and punish them, ban them from postseason play for 15 years.
It would stop in a hot second then.

Problem is, it's just like politics, those that make the rules are taking money on the side to overlook it all for their benefit.
I doubt anything will ever change for the positive so long as the root of all evil(money) is involved.

 

[MNVCGUY]

So people who are anti-NIL, please clarify for me, what is your reasoning besides fear of the sport becoming less competitive? I just have a hard time understanding the idea that people with a very valuable skill set should be prevented from making money off of it, simply because it makes people uncomfortable?

Serious inquiry, I would really like to hear people's reasoning.

I'm not against the idea of NIL, at its core it is a great thing for the players and long overdue. Things like players getting a cut of jerseys with their name and/or number on them should have been happening a long time ago.

But of course that is not what NIL has become (at least in football and basketball). It has become a way for teams with rich obsessive boosters to openly buy players by throwing big sums of money at them under the guise of it being some sort of NIL.

This was never what it was meant to be but of course as I said before, nobody is surprised that this is what it has become in football and basketball. It was easy to see it coming from a mile away.

So for me, the idea of NIL is great, just unfortunate that it is being exploited in the way it is. That said, I also am one who doesn't think it really affects competitive balance much because there wasn't competitive balance in college football before NIL so nothing really changes.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Thank you for the reasonable and well thought out response, I appreciate it. Exploitation is definitely a reasonable concern, I just don't know what the solution is. The solution is not to go back to old rule of no freedom to make money, I think we can all agree on that. The same fears could be said about 22 year old NFL players, or 19 year old NBA players

Should we idolize athletes the way many do? Probably not, but if that's what people are interested in, there's no fighting it. They could do away with scholarships and make athletes fend for themselves, but I don't imagine that having a positive outcome.

I think we just have to all realize that CFB is a very flawed sport, in terms of recruiting advantages, money, location, etc. Trying to preserve some false sense of amateurism by restricting the ability of young men to earn money just isn't reasonable nor fair. I think NIL provides the perfect system of not forcing universities to pay salaries to guys who are probably not even worth the scholarship they get, but doesn't restrict guys who earn the universities huge dollars from essentially getting a piece of the pie (albeit from other sources). It's capitalism at its finest.

Re-classifying college athletes as employees has huge legal, economic and ultimately social implications. This isn’t about restricting their ability to make a living. Ultimately 99+% of athletes will need to work in other fields to earn money and support themselves and their families and be contributors to society. If scholarships become less available, programs shut down partially or totally in response to onerous employment costs and responsibilities that’s a net negative.

I‘m as aghast as anyone at the huge amounts of money sloshing around college football - I’d prefer for most of that money to be contractually diverted and devoted towards university general funds and scholarships, rather than outrageous salaries, bloated staffs, and taj mahal facilities. Are conferences, schools mature enough to take off the ring of power and throw it into the volcano?

Compel the NFL to get rid of their own anticompetitive rule restricting teams from drafting 17-20 year olds. Or, concerned parties can build a minor league farm system for those players that don’t want to earn degrees. Nobody has done so, suggesting at least to me this seen as a poor investment. Is someone or some group brave enough to try? Former NFL players?

 

[Gophers1992]

I'm not against the idea of NIL, at its core it is a great thing for the players and long overdue. Things like players getting a cut of jerseys with their name and/or number on them should have been happening a long time ago.

But of course that is not what NIL has become (at least in football and basketball). It has become a way for teams with rich obsessive boosters to openly buy players by throwing big sums of money at them under the guise of it being some sort of NIL.

This was never what it was meant to be but of course as I said before, nobody is surprised that this is what it has become in football and basketball. It was easy to see it coming from a mile away.

So for me, the idea of NIL is great, just unfortunate that it is being exploited in the way it is. That said, I also am one who doesn't think it really affects competitive balance much because there wasn't competitive balance in college football before NIL so nothing really changes.

You are completely right, I just don't have an issue if it is pay for play because if some gazillionare wants to transfer some of his wealth to a young kid who needs it more, I'm cool with that.

 

[Gophers_4life]

The concern over paying players is actually quite simple:

everyone is afraid that the moment you start paying players, there is a massive step change (or rapid transition) to Triple-A baseball.

The quality of play is just as good, but suddenly far less people care, because it's now just a minor league of a thing rather than its own thing.


Think about this. Would you go watch a new NFL D-League match between the Minneapolis Maulers and the Chicago Crushers?

The talent level is P5. Top high school kids who didn't want to go to school.


But the game is at Griffen, with expected attendance of like 2-3 thousand.


Probably the teams could beat the Gophers. But because it's the Gophers, they get 40-45 thousand.


It's the way things have come to be, and the momentum of the status quo.

 

[atsgopher]

Yea it's a bribe.
But it's still fair.

You are free to go out and raise as many bribes for your favorite team also.

The only realistic alternative is the NFL model for college football and that isn't happening.

If it’s a bribe it potentially violates federal law on influencing sporting contests in any manner.

 

[Tommyboy]

No one is crying that the head coach is making 4-5 million or the assistant coaches are making considerable salaries. Place in a fund for each team and let the players split equally. The schools are making millions off TV contracts and games. What are most of the football players making after their college career? I have heard 2/3 of the professional players are bankrupt 3 years after their career is over. Coaches are suing the NFL for not having enough black coaches, you could make the same case saying there are not enough white players. It is all relative.

 

[upnorthkid]

No one is crying that the head coach is making 4-5 million or the assistant coaches are making considerable salaries. Place in a fund for each team and let the players split equally. The schools are making millions off TV contracts and games. What are most of the football players making after their college career? I have heard 2/3 of the professional players are bankrupt 3 years after their career is over. Coaches are suing the NFL for not having enough black coaches, you could make the same case saying there are not enough white players. It is all relative.

People have been saying coaching salaries are outrageous at the top for awhile.
If you’re broke after 2-3 years post playing, you should’ve taken your education seriously and finished your degree as well as been wiser with your money. There is about 25% of the league who is white. About 50% are black (and about 70% who are people of color). 35% of assistants are black. However less than 10% of head coaches are. The concern is more over the discrepancy in those numbers raising question that those numbers are based on race leading to discriminatory practices.

the vast majority of what you just posted has nothing remotely related to NIL or roster turnover or differences between have and have nots

 

[Tommyboy]

People have been saying coaching salaries are outrageous at the top for awhile.
If you’re broke after 2-3 years post playing, you should’ve taken your education seriously and finished your degree as well as been wiser with your money. There is about 25% of the league who is white. About 50% are black (and about 70% who are people of color). 35% of assistants are black. However less than 10% of head coaches are. The concern is more over the discrepancy in those numbers raising question that those numbers are based on race leading to discriminatory practices.

the vast majority of what you just posted has nothing remotely related to NIL or roster turnover or differences between have and have nots

 

[Tommyboy]

So if your numbers are right 45% of the head and assistant coach's in the NFL are black and about 20% of the players are white? How many players are there vs coaches? I assume there is the same ratio in college. Have you seen a recent college BB game? I would be surprised if 10% of the top teams are white. Just saying, pick the best person.

 

[upnorthkid]

So if your numbers are right 45% of the head and assistant coach's in the NFL are black and about 20% of the players are white? How many players are there vs coaches? I assume there is the same ratio in college. Have you seen a recent college BB game? I would be surprised if 10% of the top teams are white. Just saying, pick the best person.

The first part, that’s not how math works. The numbers don’t summate. The relative percentages are taken times the number and divided by the whole.

Basketball is entirely different discussion.

look at the history of the Rooney rule. I don’t think this board needs another discussion on race