Ubben: There is one clear way to stop the chaotic roster turnover taking over college football

Ok, we crossed wires a little.

I do think there are myriad issues that haven’t been thought through very well that could well lead to a vast shrinkage of college scholarships and athletics. If someone could present a model where this doesn’t occur I’m willing to listen. I think it would require a complete rethink of governance and structure, and legal carve outs.
The way to do this is through NIL

people are fighting the wrong issue.
NIL didn’t cause all these players to be in the portal.
Free transfer rule and an extra year of eligibility for 4-5 classes of athletes is causing this.

NIL is impacting how the portal plays out.
Legally, you can’t regulate NIL.
If you start playing players, legally you can’t have limits and you can’t have salary caps unless there is unionization and a collectively bargained contract…IMO that’s not happening.

NIL is the way it’s going to be. The way you limit movement of rosters is by making people sit a year (this was the case for a long time and I would guess it makes a comeback…this time with no exemption waivers) and by limiting practice roster size (so people can’t use NIL to get around scholarship limits)
 

The way to do this is through NIL

people are fighting the wrong issue.
NIL didn’t cause all these players to be in the portal.
Free transfer rule and an extra year of eligibility for 4-5 classes of athletes is causing this.

NIL is impacting how the portal plays out.
Legally, you can’t regulate NIL.
If you start playing players, legally you can’t have limits and you can’t have salary caps unless there is unionization and a collectively bargained contract…IMO that’s not happening.

NIL is the way it’s going to be. The way you limit movement of rosters is by making people sit a year (this was the case for a long time and I would guess it makes a comeback…this time with no exemption waivers) and by limiting practice roster size (so people can’t use NIL to get around scholarship limits)

Many players are “portaling” themselves out of football, perhaps permanently. I agree it isn’t for a pot of gold in most cases. They’ll get nothing.

NIL rules are absolutely governable whether by federal, state law or NCAA rule or whatever entity rises from the crater of the NCAA. Many such rules are already in place - NIL must adhere to “market value”, cannot conflict with school NIL, and so on.

Whether we’ll see any enforcement of rules is the only question in my mind.
 

Many players are “portaling” themselves out of football, perhaps permanently. I agree it isn’t for a pot of gold in most cases. They’ll get nothing.

NIL rules are absolutely governable whether by federal, state law or NCAA rule or whatever entity rises from the crater of the NCAA. Many such rules are already in place - NIL must adhere to “market value”, cannot conflict with school NIL, and so on.

Whether we’ll see any enforcement of rules is the only question in my mind.
“Market value” is not enforceable at all. Market value is whatever someone is willing to pay
 

“Market value” is not enforceable at all. Market value is whatever someone is willing to pay

Like I said, paying someone $1M to do an appearance at a birthday party or signing event is maybe not on the up and up. It is possible to set arbitrary limits, or look at eg what NFL players are compensated for similar work. Whether that will happen, or whether the NCAA or school will bother investigating or enforcing is the question. The current climate is pretty much let it rip.

When things get even more ridiculous, and they will, the tide will shift.
 

Like I said, paying someone $1M to do an appearance at a birthday party or signing event is maybe not on the up and up. It is possible to set arbitrary limits, or look at eg what NFL players are compensated for similar work. Whether that will happen, or whether the NCAA or school will bother investigating or enforcing is the question. The current climate is pretty much let it rip.

When things get even more ridiculous, and they will, the tide will shift.
Why is it not on the up and up?
Every individual has gives a unique value to each other individual



So if some guy wants to pay 3 million dollars for an appearance fee why is that not the market? That by definition is the market
 


Why is it not on the up and up?
Every individual has gives a unique value to each other individual



So if some guy wants to pay 3 million dollars for an appearance fee why is that not the market? That by definition is the market

If a physician accepts cash or trips for attending or listening to or prescribing a pharma spiel or product that is not looked upon kindly. That is not market value for their time or services. That is a bribe or inducement.

If a senator accepts $1M to speak at the Oil Assoc of America conference that is not fair value for time, expertise, or services. That is a bribe or inducement.

If a football player is paid $1M for making an appearance at a birthday party…

Cmon, man. Yes, there can be rules set around this stuff. Do I think they are always enforced? Hell no. Should they be? Yeah! I accept the NIL thing will be abused. Someday, maybe a group of schools will decide…let’s form an association where only scholarships are offered for participating in athletics. Nothing new under the sun.
 

If a physician accepts cash or trips for attending or listening to or prescribing a pharma spiel or product that is not looked upon kindly. That is not market value for their time or services. That is a bribe or inducement.

If a senator accepts $1M to speak at the Oil Assoc of America conference that is not fair value for time, expertise, or services. That is a bribe or inducement.

If a football player is paid $1M for making an appearance at a birthday party…

Cmon, man. Yes, there can be rules set around this stuff. Do I think they are always enforced? Hell no. Should they be? Yeah! I accept the NIL thing will be abused. Someday, maybe a group of schools will decide…let’s form an association where only scholarships are offered for participating in athletics. Nothing new under the sun.
How can they enforce what you want to enforce based on the current Supreme Court ruling?

they can’t, that is more my point.
 

How can they enforce what you want to enforce based on the current Supreme Court ruling?

they can’t, that is more my point.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re asking but the SCOTUS ruling had absolutely nothing to say on NIL. It was a narrow focus decision on restriction of education-related costs.

Kavanaugh and Gorsuch made comments in the ruling that could make one believe they would eliminate the NCAA amateur model OR the idea of players as employees in the future, should something like that come across their desk which it might.

Right now the states, schools, and NCAA are the entities with the ability to set limits on NIL. So far the NCAA and congress have punted, some states have punted, leaving it up to schools to make the rules. It’s the Wild West.
 

Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re asking but the SCOTUS ruling had absolutely nothing to say on NIL. It was a narrow focus decision on restriction of education-related costs.

Kavanaugh and Gorsuch made comments in the ruling that could make one believe they would eliminate the NCAA amateur model OR the idea of players as employees in the future, should something like that come across their desk which it might.

Right now the states, schools, and NCAA are the entities with the ability to set limits on NIL. So far the NCAA and congress have punted, some states have punted, leaving it up to schools to make the rules. It’s the Wild West.
The SCOTUS ruling set a precedent that any limit on Name Image Likeness wouldn’t stand up to a court challenge for the same reason that limiting “education related expenses” was non competitive market activity

It isn’t coincidental they liberalized all their rules shortly after the case. They know if they limited it they’d lose in court based on the written opinions from the SCOTUS case we are discussing



“We do not believe it is prudent, appropriate, or in the best interests of student‐athletes for the NCAA to move forward with adoption of NIL rules that are, upon passage, invalid on their face in most states that have adopted an NIL law,” the commissioners wrote in their letter.

Given today’s decision by the Supreme Court, the NCAA could be opening itself to antitrust litigation if it put parameters in place around name, image and likeness, as the decision made it clear the organization is not exempt from antitrust laws. The NCAA has been hoping to gain support from Congress for a national law that would provide uniformity for name, image and likeness and protect the organization from antitrust suits. However, it now seems unlikely it will happen during this term, if ever.



The reason the ncaa is punting is because if they didn’t punt they’d get sued and they’d lose
 



The SCOTUS ruling set a precedent that any limit on Name Image Likeness wouldn’t stand up to a court challenge for the same reason that limiting “education related expenses” was non competitive market activity

It isn’t coincidental they liberalized all their rules shortly after the case. They know if they limited it they’d lose in court based on the written opinions from the SCOTUS case we are discussing



“We do not believe it is prudent, appropriate, or in the best interests of student‐athletes for the NCAA to move forward with adoption of NIL rules that are, upon passage, invalid on their face in most states that have adopted an NIL law,” the commissioners wrote in their letter.

Given today’s decision by the Supreme Court, the NCAA could be opening itself to antitrust litigation if it put parameters in place around name, image and likeness, as the decision made it clear the organization is not exempt from antitrust laws. The NCAA has been hoping to gain support from Congress for a national law that would provide uniformity for name, image and likeness and protect the organization from antitrust suits. However, it now seems unlikely it will happen during this term, if ever.



The reason the ncaa is punting is because if they didn’t punt they’d get sued and they’d lose

You're reading but not seeing or hearing, Literally from the article you just posted:

“Although the Supreme Court’s decision only applies to education-related benefits”

Yes, perhaps the Supreme Court will, at some future date, rule on other related restriction of compensation issues but peanut gallery commentators are the ones saying this ruling has anything to do with NIL, rather than a majority decision of the court. These commentators will run with this and say the NCAA, or states, or Congress has no ability to set rules which is currently completely false.
 

You're reading but not seeing or hearing, Literally from the article you just posted:

“Although the Supreme Court’s decision only applies to education-related benefits”

Yes, perhaps the Supreme Court will, at some future date, rule on other related restriction of compensation issues but peanut gallery commentators are the ones saying this ruling has anything to do with NIL, rather than a majority decision of the court. These commentators will run with this and say the NCAA, or states, or Congress has no ability to set rules which is currently completely false.
You’re reading what happened but ignoring its legal implications

The ncaa has literally stated they are leaving regulation of NIL to states and universities to avoid litigation because any limitations they put will likely not hold up in court on their face




“We do not believe it is prudent, appropriate, or in the best interests of student‐athletes for the NCAA to move forward with adoption of NIL rules that are, upon passage, invalid on their face in most states that have adopted an NIL law”
Maybe you are right and I am wrong. But the ncaa Thinks you are wrong and are acting accordingly.
 

You’re reading what happened but ignoring its legal implications

The ncaa has literally stated they are leaving regulation of NIL to states and universities to avoid litigation because any limitations they put will likely not hold up in court on their face




“We do not believe it is prudent, appropriate, or in the best interests of student‐athletes for the NCAA to move forward with adoption of NIL rules that are, upon passage, invalid on their face in most states that have adopted an NIL law”
Maybe you are right and I am wrong. But the ncaa Thinks you are wrong and are acting accordingly.

The conflict between NCAA rules and state legislation is probably not something the NCAA wants or wanted to wade into. This NIL deregulation is strictly a lesser of two evils decision from their POV, IMO. Something like a dozen states had passed NIL legislation and kicking those schools out of NCAA competition or post season was probably not politically or economically going to happen. Many interested parties with money at stake…Massive legal costs in multiple state, federal courts.

So, we have what we have right now. Chaos. Whether you think this is good or not is going to be an individual POV.
 

You’re reading what happened but ignoring its legal implications

I’m not ignoring what Kavanaugh said. I know exactly what he said and how he as an individual feels. That does not mean a majority of the justices feel the same way. It’s not clear, for example, how the NCAA can have a monopoly on football player services when multiple leagues have come and gone that employed athletes -with their own restrictive eligibility rules, including the NFL! That the NCAA and FBS football has been incredibly successful is a testament to the product, not because other leagues cannot employ 18+ year old football players. That is a ridiculous argument on its face. Other leagues cannot survive because they have an inferior product. Also, whether players are employees seems like it needs to be established first before “pay” or “labor” law is discussed, and will have wide ranging implications for athletic departments, some of which may be negative.

Kavanaugh likes beer, but he does not like college football, and he is apparently fine with other football leagues anti-competitive practices. Fine. Here is his sole opinion on the matter which you have extrapolated to the opinion of the other justices.







JUSTICE KAVANAUGH, concurring.
The NCAA has long restricted the compensation and ben- efits that student athletes may receive. And with surpris- ing success, the NCAA has long shielded its compensation rules from ordinary antitrust scrutiny. Today, however, the Court holds that the NCAA has violated the antitrust laws. The Court’s decision marks an important and overdue course correction, and I join the Court’s excellent opinion in full.

But this case involves only a narrow subset of the NCAA’s compensation rules—namely, the rules restricting the education-related benefits that student athletes may re- ceive, such as post-eligibility scholarships at graduate or vocational schools. The rest of the NCAA’s compensation rules are not at issue here and therefore remain on the books. Those remaining compensation rules generally re-
strict student athletes from receiving compensation or ben- efits from their colleges for playing sports. And those rules have also historically restricted student athletes from re- ceiving money from endorsement deals and the like.

I add this concurring opinion to underscore that the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules also raise serious questions under the antitrust laws. Three points warrant emphasis.

First, the Court does not address the legality of the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules. As the Court says, “the student-athletes do not renew their across-the-board challenge to the NCAA’s compensation restrictions. Ac- cordingly, we do not pass on the rules that remain in place or the district court’s judgment upholding them. Our re- view is confined to those restrictions now enjoined.” Ante, at 14.
Second, although the Court does not weigh in on the ulti- mate legality of the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules, the Court’s decision establishes how any such rules should be analyzed going forward. After today’s decision, the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules should receive ordi- nary “rule of reason” scrutiny under the antitrust laws. The Court makes clear that the decades-old “stray comments” about college sports and amateurism made in National Col- legiate Athletic Assn. v. Board of Regents of Univ. of Okla., 468 U. S. 85 (1984), were dicta and have no bearing on whether the NCAA’s current compensation rules are law- ful. Ante, at 21. And the Court stresses that the NCAA is not otherwise entitled to an exemption from the antitrust laws. Ante, at 23–24; see also Radovich v. National Foot- ball League, 352 U. S. 445, 449–452 (1957). As a result, ab- sent legislation or a negotiated agreement between the NCAA and the student athletes, the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules should be subject to ordinary rule of reason scrutiny. See ante, at 18–19.

Third, there are serious questions whether the NCAA’s

Cite as: 594 U. S. ____ (2021) 3
KAVANAUGH, J., concurring
remaining compensation rules can pass muster under ordi- nary rule of reason scrutiny. Under the rule of reason, the NCAA must supply a legally valid procompetitive justifica- tion for its remaining compensation rules. As I see it, how- ever, the NCAA may lack such a justification.
The NCAA acknowledges that it controls the market for college athletes. The NCAA concedes that its compensation rules set the price of student athlete labor at a below-mar- ket rate. And the NCAA recognizes that student athletes currently have no meaningful ability to negotiate with the NCAA over the compensation rules.

The NCAA nonetheless asserts that its compensation rules are procompetitive because those rules help define the product of college sports. Specifically, the NCAA says that colleges may decline to pay student athletes because the de- fining feature of college sports, according to the NCAA, is that the student athletes are not paid.
In my view, that argument is circular and unpersuasive. The NCAA couches its arguments for not paying student athletes in innocuous labels. But the labels cannot disguise the reality: The NCAA’s business model would be flatly il- legal in almost any other industry in America. All of the restaurants in a region cannot come together to cut cooks’ wages on the theory that “customers prefer” to eat food from low-paid cooks. Law firms cannot conspire to cabin lawyers’ salaries in the name of providing legal services out of a “love of the law.” Hospitals cannot agree to cap nurses’ income in order to create a “purer” form of helping the sick. News organizations cannot join forces to curtail pay to reporters to preserve a “tradition” of public-minded journalism. Movie studios cannot collude to slash benefits to camera crews to kindle a “spirit of amateurism” in Hollywood.

Price-fixing labor is price-fixing labor. And price-fixing labor is ordinarily a textbook antitrust problem because it extinguishes the free market in which individuals can oth- erwise obtain fair compensation for their work. See, e.g.,

4 NATIONAL COLLEGIATE ATHLETIC ASSN. v. ALSTON KAVANAUGH, J., concurring
Texaco Inc. v. Dagher, 547 U. S. 1, 5 (2006). Businesses like the NCAA cannot avoid the consequences of price-fixing la- bor by incorporating price-fixed labor into the definition of the product. Or to put it in more doctrinal terms, a monop- sony cannot launder its price-fixing of labor by calling it product definition.

The bottom line is that the NCAA and its member col- leges are suppressing the pay of student athletes who col- lectively generate billions of dollars in revenues for colleges every year. Those enormous sums of money flow to seem- ingly everyone except the student athletes. College presi- dents, athletic directors, coaches, conference commission- ers, and NCAA executives take in six- and seven-figure salaries. Colleges build lavish new facilities. But the stu- dent athletes who generate the revenues, many of whom are African American and from lower-income backgrounds, end up with little or nothing. See Brief for African Ameri- can Antitrust Lawyers as Amici Curiae 13–17.
Everyone agrees that the NCAA can require student ath- letes to be enrolled students in good standing. But the NCAA’s business model of using unpaid student athletes to generate billions of dollars in revenue for the colleges raises serious questions under the antitrust laws. In particular, it is highly questionable whether the NCAA and its member colleges can justify not paying student athletes a fair share of the revenues on the circular theory that the defining characteristic of college sports is that the colleges do not pay student athletes. And if that asserted justification is una- vailing, it is not clear how the NCAA can legally defend its remaining compensation rules.

If it turns out that some or all of the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules violate the antitrust laws, some diffi- cult policy and practical questions would undoubtedly en- sue. Among them: How would paying greater compensation to student athletes affect non-revenue-raising sports? Could student athletes in some sports but not others receive

Cite as: 594 U. S. ____ (2021) 5
KAVANAUGH, J., concurring
compensation? How would any compensation regime com- ply with Title IX? If paying student athletes requires some- thing like a salary cap in some sports in order to preserve competitive balance, how would that cap be administered? And given that there are now about 180,000 Division I stu- dent athletes, what is a financially sustainable way of fairly compensating some or all of those student athletes?

Of course, those difficult questions could be resolved in ways other than litigation. Legislation would be one option. Or colleges and student athletes could potentially engage in collective bargaining (or seek some other negotiated agree- ment) to provide student athletes a fairer share of the rev- enues that they generate for their colleges, akin to how pro- fessional football and basketball players have negotiated for a share of league revenues. Cf. Brown v. Pro Football, Inc., 518 U. S. 231, 235–237 (1996); Wood v. National Bas- ketball Assn., 809 F. 2d 954, 958–963 (CA2 1987) (R. Win- ter, J.). Regardless of how those issues ultimately would be resolved, however, the NCAA’s current compensation re- gime raises serious questions under the antitrust laws.

To be sure, the NCAA and its member colleges maintain important traditions that have become part of the fabric of America—game days in Tuscaloosa and South Bend; the packed gyms in Storrs and Durham; the women’s and men’s lacrosse championships on Memorial Day weekend; track and field meets in Eugene; the spring softball and baseball World Series in Oklahoma City and Omaha; the list goes on. But those traditions alone cannot justify the NCAA’s decision to build a massive money-raising enterprise on the backs of student athletes who are not fairly compensated. Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate. And under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different. The NCAA is not above the law.
 



I’m not ignoring what Kavanaugh said. I know exactly what he said and how he as an individual feels. That does not mean a majority of the justices feel the same way. It’s not clear, for example, how the NCAA can have a monopoly on football player services when multiple leagues have come and gone that employed athletes -with their own restrictive eligibility rules, including the NFL! That the NCAA and FBS football has been incredibly successful is a testament to the product, not because other leagues cannot employ 18+ year old football players. That is a ridiculous argument on its face. Other leagues cannot survive because they have an inferior product. Also, whether players are employees seems like it needs to be established first before “pay” or “labor” law is discussed, and will have wide ranging implications for athletic department.

Kavanaugh likes beer, but he does not like college football, and he is apparently fine with other football leagues anti-competitive practices. Fine. Here is his sole opinion on the matter which you have extrapolated to the opinion of the other justices.







JUSTICE KAVANAUGH, concurring.
The NCAA has long restricted the compensation and ben- efits that student athletes may receive. And with surpris- ing success, the NCAA has long shielded its compensation rules from ordinary antitrust scrutiny. Today, however, the Court holds that the NCAA has violated the antitrust laws. The Court’s decision marks an important and overdue course correction, and I join the Court’s excellent opinion in full.

But this case involves only a narrow subset of the NCAA’s compensation rules—namely, the rules restricting the education-related benefits that student athletes may re- ceive, such as post-eligibility scholarships at graduate or vocational schools. The rest of the NCAA’s compensation rules are not at issue here and therefore remain on the books. Those remaining compensation rules generally re-
strict student athletes from receiving compensation or ben- efits from their colleges for playing sports. And those rules have also historically restricted student athletes from re- ceiving money from endorsement deals and the like.

I add this concurring opinion to underscore that the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules also raise serious questions under the antitrust laws. Three points warrant emphasis.

First, the Court does not address the legality of the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules. As the Court says, “the student-athletes do not renew their across-the-board challenge to the NCAA’s compensation restrictions. Ac- cordingly, we do not pass on the rules that remain in place or the district court’s judgment upholding them. Our re- view is confined to those restrictions now enjoined.” Ante, at 14.
Second, although the Court does not weigh in on the ulti- mate legality of the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules, the Court’s decision establishes how any such rules should be analyzed going forward. After today’s decision, the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules should receive ordi- nary “rule of reason” scrutiny under the antitrust laws. The Court makes clear that the decades-old “stray comments” about college sports and amateurism made in National Col- legiate Athletic Assn. v. Board of Regents of Univ. of Okla., 468 U. S. 85 (1984), were dicta and have no bearing on whether the NCAA’s current compensation rules are law- ful. Ante, at 21. And the Court stresses that the NCAA is not otherwise entitled to an exemption from the antitrust laws. Ante, at 23–24; see also Radovich v. National Foot- ball League, 352 U. S. 445, 449–452 (1957). As a result, ab- sent legislation or a negotiated agreement between the NCAA and the student athletes, the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules should be subject to ordinary rule of reason scrutiny. See ante, at 18–19.

Third, there are serious questions whether the NCAA’s

Cite as: 594 U. S. ____ (2021) 3
KAVANAUGH, J., concurring
remaining compensation rules can pass muster under ordi- nary rule of reason scrutiny. Under the rule of reason, the NCAA must supply a legally valid procompetitive justifica- tion for its remaining compensation rules. As I see it, how- ever, the NCAA may lack such a justification.
The NCAA acknowledges that it controls the market for college athletes. The NCAA concedes that its compensation rules set the price of student athlete labor at a below-mar- ket rate. And the NCAA recognizes that student athletes currently have no meaningful ability to negotiate with the NCAA over the compensation rules.

The NCAA nonetheless asserts that its compensation rules are procompetitive because those rules help define the product of college sports. Specifically, the NCAA says that colleges may decline to pay student athletes because the de- fining feature of college sports, according to the NCAA, is that the student athletes are not paid.
In my view, that argument is circular and unpersuasive. The NCAA couches its arguments for not paying student athletes in innocuous labels. But the labels cannot disguise the reality: The NCAA’s business model would be flatly il- legal in almost any other industry in America. All of the restaurants in a region cannot come together to cut cooks’ wages on the theory that “customers prefer” to eat food from low-paid cooks. Law firms cannot conspire to cabin lawyers’ salaries in the name of providing legal services out of a “love of the law.” Hospitals cannot agree to cap nurses’ income in order to create a “purer” form of helping the sick. News organizations cannot join forces to curtail pay to reporters to preserve a “tradition” of public-minded journalism. Movie studios cannot collude to slash benefits to camera crews to kindle a “spirit of amateurism” in Hollywood.

Price-fixing labor is price-fixing labor. And price-fixing labor is ordinarily a textbook antitrust problem because it extinguishes the free market in which individuals can oth- erwise obtain fair compensation for their work. See, e.g.,

4 NATIONAL COLLEGIATE ATHLETIC ASSN. v. ALSTON KAVANAUGH, J., concurring
Texaco Inc. v. Dagher, 547 U. S. 1, 5 (2006). Businesses like the NCAA cannot avoid the consequences of price-fixing la- bor by incorporating price-fixed labor into the definition of the product. Or to put it in more doctrinal terms, a monop- sony cannot launder its price-fixing of labor by calling it product definition.

The bottom line is that the NCAA and its member col- leges are suppressing the pay of student athletes who col- lectively generate billions of dollars in revenues for colleges every year. Those enormous sums of money flow to seem- ingly everyone except the student athletes. College presi- dents, athletic directors, coaches, conference commission- ers, and NCAA executives take in six- and seven-figure salaries. Colleges build lavish new facilities. But the stu- dent athletes who generate the revenues, many of whom are African American and from lower-income backgrounds, end up with little or nothing. See Brief for African Ameri- can Antitrust Lawyers as Amici Curiae 13–17.
Everyone agrees that the NCAA can require student ath- letes to be enrolled students in good standing. But the NCAA’s business model of using unpaid student athletes to generate billions of dollars in revenue for the colleges raises serious questions under the antitrust laws. In particular, it is highly questionable whether the NCAA and its member colleges can justify not paying student athletes a fair share of the revenues on the circular theory that the defining characteristic of college sports is that the colleges do not pay student athletes. And if that asserted justification is una- vailing, it is not clear how the NCAA can legally defend its remaining compensation rules.

If it turns out that some or all of the NCAA’s remaining compensation rules violate the antitrust laws, some diffi- cult policy and practical questions would undoubtedly en- sue. Among them: How would paying greater compensation to student athletes affect non-revenue-raising sports? Could student athletes in some sports but not others receive

Cite as: 594 U. S. ____ (2021) 5
KAVANAUGH, J., concurring
compensation? How would any compensation regime com- ply with Title IX? If paying student athletes requires some- thing like a salary cap in some sports in order to preserve competitive balance, how would that cap be administered? And given that there are now about 180,000 Division I stu- dent athletes, what is a financially sustainable way of fairly compensating some or all of those student athletes?

Of course, those difficult questions could be resolved in ways other than litigation. Legislation would be one option. Or colleges and student athletes could potentially engage in collective bargaining (or seek some other negotiated agree- ment) to provide student athletes a fairer share of the rev- enues that they generate for their colleges, akin to how pro- fessional football and basketball players have negotiated for a share of league revenues. Cf. Brown v. Pro Football, Inc., 518 U. S. 231, 235–237 (1996); Wood v. National Bas- ketball Assn., 809 F. 2d 954, 958–963 (CA2 1987) (R. Win- ter, J.). Regardless of how those issues ultimately would be resolved, however, the NCAA’s current compensation re- gime raises serious questions under the antitrust laws.

To be sure, the NCAA and its member colleges maintain important traditions that have become part of the fabric of America—game days in Tuscaloosa and South Bend; the packed gyms in Storrs and Durham; the women’s and men’s lacrosse championships on Memorial Day weekend; track and field meets in Eugene; the spring softball and baseball World Series in Oklahoma City and Omaha; the list goes on. But those traditions alone cannot justify the NCAA’s decision to build a massive money-raising enterprise on the backs of student athletes who are not fairly compensated. Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate. And under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different. The NCAA is not above the law.
The ncaa has literally stated that they aren’t making NIL regulations because they think they’ll lose the court cases. Sorry if you disagree
 

The ncaa has literally stated that they aren’t making NIL regulations because they think they’ll lose the court cases. Sorry if you disagree

Unless I’m mistaken you said NIL could not be regulated, capped, or controlled. That regulation can come from Federal or state legislation, the schools, conferences, or the NCAA.

I’m sensing you’ve pivoted here but I’ll let you clarify what you are talking about.
 

You wrote this above. Maybe I’m not understanding.

“Legally, you can’t regulate NIL“

Maybe certain states will pass legislation that says exactly that, but I don’t think I’ve seen any.
 

Unless I’m mistaken you said NIL could not be regulated, capped, or controlled. That regulation can come from Federal or state legislation, the schools, conferences, or the NCAA.

I’m sensing you’ve pivoted here but I’ll let you clarify what you are talking about.
Right now, legally the ncaa can’t regulate NIL

is more clearly what I was saying




They could try, but they themselves think whatever they would do would be challenged, and lose, in court due
 

I think some employment law attorneys need to chime on on how equal pay for equal work, Title IX, hourly versus salary would apply to such a scenario. I cannot imagine a scenario at a University of the football team getting paid while, for example, women’s volleyball is not without demonstrations, acrimony, and gender warfare. Production/economic value has little meaning to some people. If, for example, every student athlete were paid minimum wage scale + standard 30-40% in benefits that would be what 20M or so in MN? Add in scholarship costs, attorney fees….and PJF and Coyle might have to take a haircut to keep the lights on. Might have to shake down Huntington for a few more quarters.

Would people donate money to such an entity?

The football teams would need to separate completely from the Universities and just be affiliated. Then that all goes away but peoples sentiment towards the team probably takes a hit also.


if schools start directly paying athletes…the top athletes would be stupid to unionize…it would only hold down their wages

Doesn't have to.
Is the NFL PA screwing over the top NFL players?
Doesn't appear to be.
 

Right now, legally the ncaa can’t regulate NIL

is more clearly what I was saying




They could try, but they themselves think whatever they would do would be challenged, and lose, in court due

But, they can. They have chosen not to. It’s possible in the future they will face federal legislation or judicial rulings that say they can’t. The reasons for standing down on NIL are probably numerous and it would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall at the meetings. These are just normal people, with many interests chattering in their ears.

We’ll see where this all leads. Kavanaugh thinks the players should be employees of the school, or unionized. That’s the next big thing. Would the NCAA step in to stop that, if Texas pays their players? I don’t know. That’s how far things have crumbled in 12 months.
 

Like I said, paying someone $1M to do an appearance at a birthday party or signing event is maybe not on the up and up.

Really?
How much does Justin Bieber charge?

You could easily argue a high profile athlete is comparable to a rock star/movie star. The sky is the limit.
 

Really?
How much does Justin Bieber charge?

You could easily argue a high profile athlete is comparable to a rock star/movie star. The sky is the limit.

Cmon guys. This is an absolutely ridiculous argument. It’s a bribe. You know it when you see it. Pornography.

Never pegged you as a Belieber. Now, if Tom Petty or Jim Morrison would come and sing at my birthday party…
 

Cmon guys. This is an absolutely ridiculous argument. It’s a bribe. You know it when you see it. Pornography.

Never pegged you as a Belieber. Now, if Tom Petty or Jim Morrison would come and sing at my birthday party…

Yea it's a bribe.
But it's still fair.

You are free to go out and raise as many bribes for your favorite team also.

The only realistic alternative is the NFL model for college football and that isn't happening.
 

But, they can. They have chosen not to. It’s possible in the future they will face federal legislation or judicial rulings that say they can’t. The reasons for standing down on NIL are probably numerous and it would be fascinating to be a fly on the wall at the meetings. These are just normal people, with many interests chattering in their ears.

We’ll see where this all leads. Kavanaugh thinks the players should be employees of the school, or unionized. That’s the next big thing. Would the NCAA step in to stop that, if Texas pays their players? I don’t know. That’s how far things have crumbled in 12 months.
They are choosing not to because they don’t believe their enforcement would stand up to legal challenges.

So until the ncaa get a new lawyer who has a different legal thought, the ncaa won’t be regulating NiL much
 

Doesn't have to.
Is the NFL PA screwing over the top NFL players?
Doesn't appear to be.
the nfl collective bargaining agreement holds down the salary of players specifically at the top by having roster size minimums and a salary cap. If there was no salary cap you don’t think some of the top players would be making more? You’re dreaming
 



I think some employment law attorneys need to chime on on how equal pay for equal work, Title IX, hourly versus salary would apply to such a scenario. I cannot imagine a scenario at a University of the football team getting paid while, for example, women’s volleyball is not without demonstrations, acrimony, and gender warfare. Production/economic value has little meaning to some people. If, for example, every student athlete were paid minimum wage scale + standard 30-40% in benefits that would be what 20M or so in MN? Add in scholarship costs, attorney fees….and PJF and Coyle might have to take a haircut to keep the lights on. Might have to shake down Huntington for a few more quarters.

Would people donate money to such an entity?
One thing to remember is that the University itself is not paying the players anything beyond free tuition, room and board and some minor living expenses. The big money, the NIL royalty payments are coming from third parties unaffiliated with the University. So I don’t think equal pay kind of considerations are an issue. These aren’t University employees. Every single athlete had the same, equal right to sell his or her NIL rights to third parties. Some get lucky, some don’t.
 

One thing to remember is that the University itself is not paying the players anything beyond free tuition, room and board and some minor living expenses. The big money, the NIL royalty payments are coming from third parties unaffiliated with the University. So I don’t think equal pay kind of considerations are an issue. These aren’t University employees. Every single athlete had the same, equal right to sell his or her NIL rights to third parties. Some get lucky, some don’t.

Right, I agree. The writer in the OP, Ubbens, was talking about paying players directly unless I misunderstood something. That’s also what Kavanaugh was talking about, in addition to unleashing NIL. The NCAA, conferences, and schools sharing media, gate, merchandise revenue with athletes as employees is a whole different animal than current NIL.



There’s a fix, and it’s a familiar refrain: Pay the players.

It always has been the right thing to do. But now it’s the price of returning to some level of sanity in roster construction and maintenance.

College football, as currently constructed, leaves programs with zero right to decide where players are allowed to pursue their education and play out their careers. The free transfer was long overdue. Coaches weren’t subject to non-compete clauses when they left for better jobs or were told they weren’t good enough to continue doing their current jobs. And yet, unpaid players were. It was the definition of a power imbalance.

And while free agency has arrived in college football, it’s a lot more like an annual fantasy draft for 130 programs, especially for those who believe tampering is rampant. But there’s a reason free agency doesn’t run wild every offseason in professional sports.

Contracts. That pay real money. (Sorry for getting you excited about restricted, free labor, NCAA.)
 

You wrote this above. Maybe I’m not understanding.

“Legally, you can’t regulate NIL“

Maybe certain states will pass legislation that says exactly that, but I don’t think I’ve seen any.
And any state that does that will do so to the detriment of the college teams located in that state, so I don't see it happening.
 

If playing football is a job, then pay the players. But then charge them for tuition, room and board just like other students who have jobs. It’s absurd that the value of their education is so easily dismissed in these debates.
It's not dismissed, it's just that their value is considerably more. That's why they had to pass a rule stopping people from paying them.
 




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