Tyler Johnson released by Buccaneers

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Spoofin said:
I’m a big TJ6 fan. I have a signed jersey of his in my house. Still, you are exactly right that TJ6 had way too many drops in his career here. The Iowa one stands out due to the impact on the game, but they weren’t that rare over his career. Funny that people forget that.
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IMO the opposite is true. I think he's remembered/criticized for his drops more than he deserves.

Did he have drops, yes. But he made phenomenal catches to help knock of some really good teams (PSU, Auburn). The PSU one handed catch (while getting interfered with) didn't get enough recognition and the end zone catch against Auburn was so good the announcers didn't even think it was possible.

Will he be a great, or even good, NFL receiver...TBD (not the best start). But in my memory he's an all-time Gopher great.
 

pharmacygopher said:
IMO the opposite is true. I think he's remembered/criticized for his drops more than he deserves.

Did he have drops, yes. But he made phenomenal catches to help knock of some really good teams (PSU, Auburn). The PSU one handed catch (while getting interfered with) didn't get enough recognition and the end zone catch against Auburn was so good the announcers didn't even think it was possible.

Will he be a great, or even good, NFL receiver...TBD (not the best start). But in my memory he's an all-time Gopher great.
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💯
 


Spoofin said:
I’m a big TJ6 fan. I have a signed jersey of his in my house. Still, you are exactly right that TJ6 had way too many drops in his career here. The Iowa one stands out due to the impact on the game, but they weren’t that rare over his career. Funny that people forget that.
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Yup. Not sure why it's so blasphemous to acknowledge this. He's one of the all-time great Gopher WR's, who played on one of best teams of the last 50 years, but he dropped the ball way too many times. And not all drops are created equal. Some drops are deep sideline routes where you struggle tracking the ball over your shoulder. TJ had a boatload of slant routes where Morgan put the ball right in his stomach and he flat out botched it. Those are drive killers.

The evidence has spoken, the Buccs not only ultimately waived him, but prior to that they often went out and sought other available alternatives to bring in rather than move TJ up the depth chart. That alone should kinda tell you what the general vibe is.

Perfectly fine to absolutely love the guy and what he did for the Gophers and acknowledge that he dropped the ball.
 


TJ obviously dropped more balls than is ideal. That said if you look at the NFL leaders in drops in any given year, it's usually a pretty good list of guys. For example in 2021
1. Keenan Allen
2. Jamarr Chase
3. DJ Moore
4. Deebo Samuel
5. Robby Anderson

To deny that TJ had an issue with drops in college is foolish. On the flip side people definitely gave him way too much grief for it considering all he did here. My suspicion is that his lack of speed is hurting his NFL career more so than his drops.
 

Gophers1992 said:
TJ obviously dropped more balls than is ideal. That said if you look at the NFL leaders in drops in any given year, it's usually a pretty good list of guys. For example in 2021
1. Keenan Allen
2. Jamarr Chase
3. DJ Moore
4. Deebo Samuel
5. Robby Anderson

To deny that TJ had an issue with drops in college is foolish. On the flip side people definitely gave him way too much grief for it considering all he did here. My suspicion is that his lack of speed is hurting his NFL career more so than his drops.
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Nobody is denying he had some drops. But TJ had WAY WAY more unreal catches and huge games for us than he did games where one of his drops impacted the game in a big way. Everyone keeps bringing up Iowa in 2019, yet we can name more games in just 2019 that he either single handedly won us the game or had a huge part in the win with his performance. That's the point.
 

WriterGoph said:
Nobody is denying he had some drops. But TJ had WAY WAY more unreal catches and huge games for us than he did games where one of his drops impacted the game in a big way. Everyone keeps bringing up Iowa in 2019, yet we can name more games in just 2019 that he either single handedly won us the game or had a huge part in the win with his performance. That's the point.
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Agreed. Also he was the main reason we were in a position to almost win that Iowa game anyway.
 

Gophers1992 said:
TJ obviously dropped more balls than is ideal. That said if you look at the NFL leaders in drops in any given year, it's usually a pretty good list of guys. For example in 2021
1. Keenan Allen
2. Jamarr Chase
3. DJ Moore
4. Deebo Samuel
5. Robby Anderson

To deny that TJ had an issue with drops in college is foolish. On the flip side people definitely gave him way too much grief for it considering all he did here. My suspicion is that his lack of speed is hurting his NFL career more so than his drops.
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It makes sense that the list of guys with the most drops are pretty good players. These players are most likely getting the most targets and have a higher opportunity to drop more passes. It would be interesting to see the percentage of dropped passes to targets and see if TJ has a higher percentage than someone like Allen or Chase.
 



DrJenniges86 said:
It makes sense that the list of guys with the most drops are pretty good players. These players are most likely getting the most targets and have a higher opportunity to drop more passes. It would be interesting to see the percentage of dropped passes to targets and see if TJ has a higher percentage than someone like Allen or Chase.
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Yes it's largely a stat based on opportunity. In the NFL most guys can catch the ball, but the thing that makes the elite guys elite is their ability to get separation.

Kind of like how if you look at the guys in MLB who hit into the most double plays, it's usually guys near the top of the order who get a lot of at bats with runners on base.
 

DrJenniges86 said:
It makes sense that the list of guys with the most drops are pretty good players. These players are most likely getting the most targets and have a higher opportunity to drop more passes. It would be interesting to see the percentage of dropped passes to targets and see if TJ has a higher percentage than someone like Allen or Chase.
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Tyler dropped 7% of targets last year.
Compared to other notable receivers:
Kupp: 4%
Samuel: 8%
Jefferson: 4%
Adams: 2%
Metcalf: 3%
Diggs: 3%
Thielen: 1%
KJ Osborn: 2.4%

So Tyler is definitely on the high side compared to some of the elite WRs. (put in the top 3 Vikings WRs as people here may be more familiar with them)
 

Word said:
Tyler dropped 7% of targets last year.
Compared to other notable receivers:
Kupp: 4%
Samuel: 8%
Jefferson: 4%
Adams: 2%
Metcalf: 3%
Diggs: 3%
Thielen: 1%
KJ Osborn: 2.4%

So Tyler is definitely on the high side compared to some of the elite WRs. (put in the top 3 Vikings WRs as people here may be more familiar with them)
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Thats the info I wanted. % is prob what matters most
 

Word said:
Tyler dropped 7% of targets last year.
Compared to other notable receivers:
Kupp: 4%
Samuel: 8%
Jefferson: 4%
Adams: 2%
Metcalf: 3%
Diggs: 3%
Thielen: 1%
KJ Osborn: 2.4%

So Tyler is definitely on the high side compared to some of the elite WRs. (put in the top 3 Vikings WRs as people here may be more familiar with them)
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But if you are not a highly regarded WR that gets a lot of balls thrown to you, those drops standout.
 



alchemy2u said:
But if you are not a highly regarded WR that gets a lot of balls thrown to you, those drops standout.
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And even more so when you are dropping a higher % compared to your peers.
 

pharmacygopher said:
IMO the opposite is true. I think he's remembered/criticized for his drops more than he deserves.

Did he have drops, yes. But he made phenomenal catches to help knock of some really good teams (PSU, Auburn). The PSU one handed catch (while getting interfered with) didn't get enough recognition and the end zone catch against Auburn was so good the announcers didn't even think it was possible.

Will he be a great, or even good, NFL receiver...TBD (not the best start). But in my memory he's an all-time Gopher great.
Click to expand...
To me the Auburn TD catch the announcers thought was caught out of bounds and still didn't think he could have remained in bounds after the officials signaled TD, was one of the most acrobatic TD catches I've seen.

Autman-Bell with his catch against Fresno State was another truly amazing TD catch. Those moments were what made the 2019 season truly amazing and kind of padded the stats of our current QB, but I digress.
 
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pharmacygopher said:
IMO the opposite is true. I think he's remembered/criticized for his drops more than he deserves.

Did he have drops, yes. But he made phenomenal catches to help knock of some really good teams (PSU, Auburn). The PSU one handed catch (while getting interfered with) didn't get enough recognition and the end zone catch against Auburn was so good the announcers didn't even think it was possible.

Will he be a great, or even good, NFL receiver...TBD (not the best start). But in my memory he's an all-time Gopher great.
Click to expand...
He is an all-time great Gopher. As I said, I am a big TJ6 fan. I just also think he had too many drops and that it would limit his potential. I'd be as happy as anyone if he ends up being a great NFL WR.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Yup. Not sure why it's so blasphemous to acknowledge this. He's one of the all-time great Gopher WR's, who played on one of best teams of the last 50 years, but he dropped the ball way too many times. And not all drops are created equal. Some drops are deep sideline routes where you struggle tracking the ball over your shoulder. TJ had a boatload of slant routes where Morgan put the ball right in his stomach and he flat out botched it. Those are drive killers.

The evidence has spoken, the Buccs not only ultimately waived him, but prior to that they often went out and sought other available alternatives to bring in rather than move TJ up the depth chart. That alone should kinda tell you what the general vibe is.

Perfectly fine to absolutely love the guy and what he did for the Gophers and acknowledge that he dropped the ball.
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All true, but does the part I have highlighted indicate that Brady is playing GM to some extent? Aaron Rodgers has deservedly earned a lot of his "diva points," but if the Packers bent to him as much as the Bucs have bent to Brady, the Packers' WR/TE units would look a lot stronger than they are. Brady may be the GOAT and that probably gets him a pass to a degree, but he's a meddler.

As for Johnson, I think he'll get a great opportunity in Houston to show what he can do. He has to be more consistent, but being in a less pressure-packed environment is probably a good place for him right now. Question will be can Davis Mills get the ball to anyone on that team.
 

50PoundHead said:
All true, but does the part I have highlighted indicate that Brady is playing GM to some extent? Aaron Rodgers has deservedly earned a lot of his "diva points," but if the Packers bent to him as much as the Bucs have bent to Brady, the Packers' WR/TE units would look a lot stronger than they are. Brady may be the GOAT and that probably gets him a pass to a degree, but he's a meddler.

As for Johnson, I think he'll get a great opportunity in Houston to show what he can do. He has to be more consistent, but being in a less pressure-packed environment is probably a good place for him right now. Question will be can Davis Mills get the ball to anyone on that team.
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Brady is definitely quasi-GM of the Bucs, in the same way LeBron James and a few other NBA stars have that leverage on their teams. With receivers it's probably more direct control and with defensive players, he's a recruiter.

Most late-career stars have followed a similar path in the quasi-GM role - load up on big name, experienced, win-now vets (such as Gronk or Julio Jones) and forsake both the future development of younger players and the overall team. They load up on guys with big numbers and iffy efficiency measures (such as Russell Westbrook or Carmelo Anthony). The 2021-22 Lakers were a perfect example of this. Looked unstoppable on paper, old AF, missed the playoffs.

It's also a big reason why very few HOF-level players have thrived in the front office after their careers. They tend to fill the team with older, big names rather than taking a chance on youngsters and the draft.
 


Spoofin said:
He is an all-time great Gopher. As I said, I am a big TJ6 fan. I just also think he had too many drops and that it would limit his potential. I'd be as happy as anyone if he ends up being a great NFL WR.
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Completely agree. He was a phenomenal college receiver. NFL is cream-of-the-crop though and little things like drop rate may make the difference between being receiver #4 or 5 and being cut.
 

WriterGoph said:
Nobody is denying he had some drops. But TJ had WAY WAY more unreal catches and huge games for us than he did games where one of his drops impacted the game in a big way. Everyone keeps bringing up Iowa in 2019, yet we can name more games in just 2019 that he either single handedly won us the game or had a huge part in the win with his performance. That's the point.
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I think people partly fixate on his drops because of the amazing catches he made. I think people are wondering if a guy can make the amazing catch, why is he dropping the easy one? At least that's why I think they stand out more for TJ. He made some of the most amazing catches I've seen a Gopher receiver make but he also had some of the most baffling drops.
 

Word said:
I think people partly fixate on his drops because of the amazing catches he made. I think people are wondering if a guy can make the amazing catch, why is he dropping the easy one? At least that's why I think they stand out more for TJ. He made some of the most amazing catches I've seen a Gopher receiver make but he also had some of the most baffling drops.
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I mentioned this earlier but to me it's also a lot to do with what kind of drops there are, as in not all drops are created equally. TJ just had way, way too many balls, usually his patented slant routes, where the ball was on the numbers, in his chest/stomach, and he just flat out dumped it. To me, that's a fair amount different than many other "drops" that were on considerably tougher grabs but were deemed to be catchable by some statistician. TJ dropped some really really bad ones with nobody around him, ball on the numbers. It was tough to watch, because of how talented he is.

At the end of the day, the NFL has proven to be the ultimate meritocracy; if he can produce and those that know the talent when they see it are aware, he'll make it just fine. If he doesn't, there's a good chance you'll know why. Every team in the league has scouts that exclusively evaluate talent from other rosters. Nobody is a secret to anyone. If he can play, he'll play.
 


50PoundHead said:
All true, but does the part I have highlighted indicate that Brady is playing GM to some extent? Aaron Rodgers has deservedly earned a lot of his "diva points," but if the Packers bent to him as much as the Bucs have bent to Brady, the Packers' WR/TE units would look a lot stronger than they are. Brady may be the GOAT and that probably gets him a pass to a degree, but he's a meddler.

As for Johnson, I think he'll get a great opportunity in Houston to show what he can do. He has to be more consistent, but being in a less pressure-packed environment is probably a good place for him right now. Question will be can Davis Mills get the ball to anyone on that team.
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The vibe that I got from TB was that he didn't seem to be in sync with TJ. Dropping balls at inopportune moments didn't help his cause.

An ideal landing spot is Buffalo for him under the tutelage of their dynamic assistant coach.
 

DanvilleGopher said:
To me the Auburn TD catch the announcers thought was caught out of bounds and still didn't think he could have remained in bounds after the officials signaled TD, was one of the most acrobatic TD catches I've seen.

Autman-Bell with his catch against Fresno State was another truly amazing TD catch. Those moments were what made the 2019 season truly amazing and kind of padded the stats of our current QB, but I digress.
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Padded the stats of our current QB? What about all of the drops from good throws? The throw to CAB in the Fresno St game was perfect.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Padded the stats of our current QB? What about all of the drops from good throws? The throw to CAB in the Fresno St game was perfect.
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I would be willing to wager big dollars if there was a way to show how many times these NFL (the last one of the tremendous trio who will become an NFL receiver if he chooses that route and doesn't suffer an injury) receivers bailed Morgan out by coming down with throws he knew he could get away with due to the talent he had at receiver.

Morgan did make an amazing throw to Autman-Bell and for Bell to remain in bounds, was just as amazing as the throw. I recorded that game and watched it until 2am in the morning out here in Ca not knowing the score so I was blown away by his throw as well as the catch along with the moment in the game it took place (no catch, no special season imho). To me one of the more amazing memories in my Gopher football lore (this has typically happened AGAINST the Gophers).

The Wisconsin game to me was the one game during the year where the receivers didn't win the battles for the ball. All other games (sure there were drops) these guys won numerous battles per game to yes, PAD Morgan's stats. This is not me being negative about Morgan that year as he KNEW he could get away making these throws just because of the awesome talent at receiver!
 

DanvilleGopher said:
I would be willing to wager big dollars if there was a way to show how many times these NFL (the last one of the tremendous trio who will become an NFL receiver if he chooses that route and doesn't suffer an injury) receivers bailed Morgan out by coming down with throws he knew he could get away with due to the talent he had at receiver.

Morgan did make an amazing throw to Autman-Bell and for Bell to remain in bounds, was just as amazing as the throw. I recorded that game and watched it until 2am in the morning out here in Ca not knowing the score so I was blown away by his throw as well as the catch along with the moment in the game it took place (no catch, no special season imho). To me one of the more amazing memories in my Gopher football lore (this has typically happened AGAINST the Gophers).

The Wisconsin game to me was the one game during the year where the receivers didn't win the battles for the ball. All other games (sure there were drops) these guys won numerous battles per game to yes, PAD Morgan's stats. This is not me being negative about Morgan that year as he KNEW he could get away making these throws just because of the awesome talent at receiver!
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That’s part of being a good qb is putting it where your guy can make a play. Not every play is going to be to a wide open guy. Regarding it as padding the stats is arguing it like he’s throwing it into triple coverage and “lucky” it’s working out. You put the ball where your playmakers can do something with it. The only other padding of a QBs stats to me would be you throw a tunnel screen and the guy breaks 4 tackles and scores. Makes your stats look good on a glorified run play.
 

As fans we see Johnson drop a pass near the endzone at Iowa and it's burned into our memory. I'm willing to bet that there were 5 or 6 errors made during that game that were just as critical. We just didn't see them. TJ was an exceptional receiver for the Gophers, I'll remember him as such.
 

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