Two Point Try

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Scottsdale Gopher

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It's a long offseason, so let's kill a little time here discussing the two point attempt:
  • This looks like it was supposed to be a pick play and we missed making the pick. With Kesich's leg, I actually like the concept because a penalty wouldn't really hurt us if they called offensive PI.
  • It seems like this was either always going to be "on" or was "on" assuming the defense aligns with no more than three to the receivers' side of the field.
  • The game was played at an NFL stadium where they have pylon cams. Why weren't they in use? Would love to know whether Kesich actually got in or not
I miss Gopher football.
 


Jack jones said:
What’s with PJ kicking the PAT when we were 5 pts. ahead? The card says go for 2 to make it a 7 point difference.
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I didn't have a problem with that. IMO it forces the team to try for a TD (and they did) and eat more time doing it .... maybe they shoot for two field goals to tie, but I think that's a hell of a lot more likely than going for 2 again and if you miss and are only up by 5 ... they going to play the field goal game.

I think it is one of those weird situations where if you're up 6 you're daring BG to play for a TD, and in doing so they eat away their time to do anything else.
 


I was trying to watch the game on my phone at work but missed a lot. Did they not have a camera shot down the line? It almost looks like he got in, no?
 



Scottsdale Gopher said:
It's a long offseason, so let's kill a little time here discussing the two point attempt:
  • This looks like it was supposed to be a pick play and we missed making the pick. With Kesich's leg, I actually like the concept because a penalty wouldn't really hurt us if they called offensive PI.
  • It seems like this was either always going to be "on" or was "on" assuming the defense aligns with no more than three to the receivers' side of the field.
  • The game was played at an NFL stadium where they have pylon cams. Why weren't they in use? Would love to know whether Kesich actually got in or not
I miss Gopher football.
Click to expand...
This was SUCH a weird play. Kesich is big enough that had he not hesitated, I think he'd have got in easily. I was at least happy to see the Gophers do something unusual, though I was concerned it could cost us in the end. (which would be typical).

In the stadium, and on the scoreboard replay, we thought he absolutely got in. Watching the play when we got home, it was clear his butt hit the ground short of the goal line.
 


disco said:
This was SUCH a weird play. Kesich is big enough that had he not hesitated, I think he'd have got in easily. I was at least happy to see the Gophers do something unusual, though I was concerned it could cost us in the end. (which would be typical).

In the stadium, and on the scoreboard replay, we thought he absolutely got in. Watching the play when we got home, it was clear his butt hit the ground short of the goal line.
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Yea, just couldn't really tell where the ball was when his butt hit. Close.
 




GophersInIowa said:
I was trying to watch the game on my phone at work but missed a lot. Did they not have a camera shot down the line? It almost looks like he got in, no?
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I think it was the right call. When seeing it live, it looked like his butt hit the turf before the ball crossed the line. That conclusion was a bit less clear after the various replays but nothing worth complaining about.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Another example of Fleck being aggressive at an odd time.
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It is really weird, right? Like going for it on 4th down against Ohio St at like their own 30 yard line in the 1st half. He's so conservative but then every once in awhile does a "oh yeah, watch this".
 

It's a bowl game; the normal rules don't apply. . Fleck always pulls out a trick play, fake kick for a PAT, etc. And many other teams do, too, which is part of the fun of bowl season. I doubt Fleck would call that play in the first quarter during the regular season.
 



PMWinSTP said:
Another example of Fleck being aggressive at an odd time.
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eh I dunno. Lots of coaches will do it on the 1st TD of the game as it puts the scores at weird numbers which will make people make poor analytics decisions later chasing points. Oregon is notorious for this and will scheme a 2pt try based on the teams alignment on ST. If you get the look, you exploit it. If not, get yourself back in alignment and kick.

The bigger error was not getting the 2 back when going up by 12 given there was no way there were 3 more scores in the game.
 

Jack jones said:
What’s with PJ kicking the PAT when we were 5 pts. ahead? The card says go for 2 to make it a 7 point difference.
Click to expand...
A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I didn't have a problem with that. IMO it forces the team to try for a TD (and they did) and eat more time doing it .... maybe they shoot for two field goals to tie, but I think that's a hell of a lot more likely than going for 2 again and if you miss and are only up by 5 ... they going to play the field goal game.

I think it is one of those weird situations where if you're up 6 you're daring BG to play for a TD, and in doing so they eat away their time to do anything else.
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Up by 5 pretty early in the 3Q, I was good with kicking the PAT to go up 6. Too early to go chasing at that stage, IMO. A later FG would make it a 2 score game.

The TD later in the 3Q and then in the 4Q, I am not sure why they didn't for 2 either time. At that point being up 12 or 13 seems inconsequential.

Oh well, they won. All fine.
 

upnorthkid said:
eh I dunno. Lots of coaches will do it on the 1st TD of the game as it puts the scores at weird numbers which will make people make poor analytics decisions later chasing points. Oregon is notorious for this and will scheme a 2pt try based on the teams alignment on ST. If you get the look, you exploit it. If not, get yourself back in alignment and kick.

The bigger error was not getting the 2 back when going up by 12 given there was no way there were 3 more scores in the game.
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I don't think a lot do this...
 


Breakin' The Plane said:
I think it was one of those deals where it was awful close, but not clear enough to overturn a call on the field.
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If he falls a little more gracefully I think the refs look closer.

Fall like that and you don't get the initial call.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I don't think a lot do this...
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I'm meaning the lineup not necessarily the going for it. sorry for wording of post. As far as the actual numbers, NCAAF doesn't keep track of 2 pt attempts that I could find.
 


Question, could have Kesich drop kicked the extra point if the 2 point play wasn't there or available. Wondering if the drop kick is still in play on that formation if pass or run are covered? Don't think so because of the player off the line of scrimmage for a pass. Could we fake the punt kick the release for pass. Once past line of scrimmage the kick is not any longer in play.
 

The special teams coach should be fired because even if it works, it is illegal. There were only 4 OL numbered players and in this formation you need 5. How can you not know the rule?

You have to have a holder and kicker in place to get numbering exceptions.
 

A kicker turned into a quarterback and the receivers/TEs didn't know how to get open. It was doomed.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
The special teams coach should be fired because even if it works, it is illegal. There were only 4 OL numbered players and in this formation you need 5. How can you not know the rule?

You have to have a holder and kicker in place to get numbering exceptions.
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If that is true (not saying it isn't) why weren't we flagged for illegal formation on the play?
 

MaxyJR1 said:
The special teams coach should be fired because even if it works, it is illegal. There were only 4 OL numbered players and in this formation you need 5. How can you not know the rule?

You have to have a holder and kicker in place to get numbering exceptions.
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I disagree with your interpretation of this rule but am not going into the rule book. With kesich standing with his heels on the 10 they are still in a scrimmage kick formation.
Plus, they initially lined up in a scrimmage kick formation.
 

I had no problem with them running the 2pt conversion. It's a low level bowl game....with a bunch of opt outs....and very little to gain (other than avoiding another embarrassing loss) against a Bowling Green team that the Gophers have already played three times (now four) since 2007.

Rewarding a guy like Kesich....who's been one of the best kickers in the history of the program....with an opportunity to try something fun is perfectly fine in my book. Would have been cooler if it had converted.....like the Faalele TD a few years back.....but that's beyond the point.

I was far more concerned about not going for two in the fourth quarter in order to make it a fourteen point lead. BG had momentum and were moving the ball well. It was starting to look like the NW and Illinois games.....where we left the door open and the other team took advantage of a floundering defense. Fortunately we got the onsides kick and iced the game. But can you imagine what the story would have been today.....had BG gotten the onsides kick or stopped us....got the ball back....and scored a TD with the extra point to win the game? I know it's just a hypothetical now.....but it simply did not make any sense to not try and get the lead back up to fourteen with the time that was remaining. BG wasn't playing for field goals at that point in the game. They realized that they had a limited number of drives remaining.....especially considering our running game. Fortunately they didn't get one last drive at the end of the game like NW and Illinois had.....because they had scored TDs on the previous two drives.....and maybe only needed one more.

Thank god that didn't happen. Truly would have been the darkest timeline....and possibly the biggest PJ gaffe in his tenure.
 

Clairemont Gopher said:
PJ went for two early vs. West Virginia two years ago in Arizona with Annexstad's brother and it worked. This time it felt like he was kind of letting Kesich have some fun as a reward for a great season.
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Yes, PJ has a history of throwing a bone to popular players he's fond of like, Big Dan.
 

Some guy said:
I disagree with your interpretation of this rule but am not going into the rule book. With kesich standing with his heels on the 10 they are still in a scrimmage kick formation.
Plus, they initially lined up in a scrimmage kick formation.
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During the game the head ref said they were reviewing the play including for if we had enough linemen. We didn’t. Unless he’s drop kicking it there isn’t anything legal you can do out of that formation.

Not 100% on this but the official said it was part of review. I believe they it if determined he scored and we would have had to retry.

I hear what you’re saying, but it would be a gray area to allow the formation and protect the snapper on a two point try.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
During the game the head ref said they were reviewing the play including for if we had enough linemen. We didn’t. Unless he’s drop kicking it there isn’t anything legal you can do out of that formation.

Not 100% on this but the official said it was part of review. I believe they it if determined he scored and we would have had to retry.

I hear what you’re saying, but it would be a gray area to allow the formation and protect the snapper on a two point try.
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You don’t have to kick the ball to be in a scrimmage kick formation.
You are incorrect
 

Some guy said:
You don’t have to kick the ball to be in a scrimmage kick formation.
You are incorrect
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I understand the scrimmage kick formation, but if it’s an attempt for try and don’t have a holder, is it a legal formation with exceptions and protections? I agree with you that is a form of scrimmage kick formation. Great play to get answers to and see difference between HS and NCAA rules.
 

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