Tubby: "That's why we have to recruit better players..." = Classless

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ShowinGoldyLove said:
That's why I didn't include Slick Rick.
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Actually you said "etc" which I and others took to mean Slick Rick.

I get what you are saying,but as has been proven in this thread many big name coaches call out players. its ok to be wrong I'm wrong all the time.
 

Calling out a player for their recent play and lack of leadership (especially from your captain) is very different than commenting on the overall talent of the players that you recruited in, basically dismissing them and saying that you're going to find and bring in better players.
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I agree with this and would add SGL that next year's class isn't loaded either. I saw the clip of Tubby making that remark and it's simply born out of frustration. Tubby is usually way too calculated in his remarks for me, but that was completely off the cuff and I suspect it's one he'll regret making. He was pissed off and said something he shouldn't have. Other coaches have done it as well. So it goes.
 

Go4 said:
Actually you said "etc" which I and others took to mean Slick Rick.

I get what you are saying,but as has been proven in this thread many big name coaches call out players. its ok to be wrong I'm wrong all the time.
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Go4, don't be so hard on yourself. I mean I am not perfect, because one time I thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I was right.
 


Tubby's right. We just aren't that good. I think watching these players play for all these years and watching their growth has been exciting and we expect more out of them, but there's a reason Monson could recruit them. Westbrook - terrible decision making, poor attitude, poor defense, Damien - no offense, Hoffaber - one tool player, Nolen - no offense, no creation, you need to give Tubby time to develop his freshman/soph players (Not Paul Carter, not bostick). Tubby just got jr college players to try to make is team better now, but we all know the future is devoe and sampson.
 


At least Tubby isn't comparing our season to the earthquake in Haiti, like Roy did this week:

Williams said, "Massage therapist told me, she said, 'You know, coach, what happened in Haiti is a catastrophe. What you're having is a disappointment.' And I told her that depends on what chair she was sitting in. Because it does feel like a catastrophe to me, because it is my life."

Go Gophers!!
 

GopherNation said:
Tubby's right. We just aren't that good. I think watching these players play for all these years and watching their growth has been exciting and we expect more out of them, but there's a reason Monson could recruit them. Westbrook - terrible decision making, poor attitude, poor defense, Damien - no offense, Hoffaber - one tool player, Nolen - no offense, no creation, you need to give Tubby time to develop his freshman/soph players (Not Paul Carter, not bostick). Tubby just got jr college players to try to make is team better now, but we all know the future is devoe and sampson.
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I'll take a Blake Hoffarber on any and every Gopher team any and every year.

Go Gophers!!
 

Good point on your 8:54 post, Bleed. I am sure all of us have said some stupid things in our lives, and it's a good thing I don't remember any of them I made, I think.
 

The problem is our upperclassmen are nice players and all, but they are wildly inconsistent, and I think that rubs off on the rest of the team, honestly. I mean, our top two scorers are Westbrook and Hoffarber. And they have about as many 6 point games as they do 20 point games. We have no consistent scorers on this team, something that you'd like to be able to count on your upperclass leaders to provide. We don't have Kevin Durants, Michael Beasleys, or John Walls here. We can't rely on our freshmen and sophomores to be our consistency and leadership, the juniors and seniors HAVE to be those guys, and let's face it, it's not happening right now. I think that is a lot of Tubby's frustrations. Westbrook just can't have the games he's having sometimes when the team really needs him, being a senior like that. It's really quite unacceptable. Portland, Texas A&M, @Indiana, @ Purdue, Michigan, why is he disappearing in those games when we really need him to step up and lead this team?

In any event, obviously a very disappointing season, and really, it may affect the future if we do end up having transfers and guys like White don't end up playing here. But it also could just be a reality check for those who would be returning for next season. Nothing is promised, a preseason ranking doesn't mean a thing if you don't go out and get it.
 



BleedGopher said:
I'll take a Blake Hoffarber on any and every Gopher team any and every year.
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I think the majority of coaches around the country would agree with you, including Tubby (as evidenced by Hoffarber leading the team in minutes this year).

It still boggles my mind that a kid that is leading the nation in 3-point shooting, who is our 2nd leading scorer, probably our best passer (especially pick & roll, cross-court and post-entry), never plays selfishly/yells at teammates, is our leading rebounder behind the 2 bigs, goes to class, gets great grades in Carlson, and continues to represent the University well as a student-athlete is ripped and encouraged to go elsewhere by some posters.

GopherNation, if you don't appreciate or want players like Hoffarber, what kind of players DO you want on the team?
 

GibsonSG said:
Izzo, Self, and Williams always have rosters full of 4 and 5 star players....some McD's All-Americans. Have you watched/read/listened to every post-game press conference with Roy Williams after a UNC loss to say this with extreme certainty?


Can you give examples to support this? I think that "plenty" is more like "a few."

Your team is 23-1. Tubby has been gone for almost 3 years now. And you're still full of hatred for the man? Get over it.
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Self may have a team 'full of 4 and 5 star players', but Izzo does not. the gophers last two classes were ranked higher that Sparty's.
 

these comments don't hurt the players as much as you think..

most of them think he's referring to someone else on the team..

(williams: yeah, i could use a PG who could throw better alley-oops).
(bostick: yeah, i could use a PF who could free me up to play the 3).
(RS3: yeah, a good PF could relieve me of this nasty rebounding).

etc..
 

Look. I cannot fathom how frustrated Tubby must be at this point, as, I'm sure, are the players. Take how frustrated you are as a Gophers fan, and start multiplying. I'm not usually in favor of calling out the players. It upsets me when Brewster does it, and I don't really like it in this instance. Even if it's true, and everybody, in this case, I think knows that it's true, it's better to measure your words, and keep up the appearance that you don't realize you've got some players without talent. Now, it would take a better man than me, because I would have had no problem laying into the players, individually and by name. I don't think this was Tubby's best moment, but I'm certainly not going to jump on the "Tubby is a bad person and a bad coach, who 'lacks certain coaching fundamentals', and is lazy", especially as I think the lion's share of the really harsh criticism on this board of Tubby is coming from racist inbred Kentucky trolls.
 



The common thread between the Gophers and Nc's struggles and the Spartans success is all pretty much related to the same issue. PG play. The Gophers have not recruited a complete point guard since maybe BJ. NC's pg guard play is atrocious this year hence their struggles. MSU has had nice players over the past ten years but the one position they've had consistent play is out of their PG.

It's the main reason the Gophers NEED Joseph to sign. Say what you want about Trevor, White, Williams et al.....you MUST have a point guard you can trust to play on both ends. Right now, they don't have that option. Also, for all the people who think Rodney should be thrust into the lineup, you can see he struggles mightily on the defensive side to the point of being a liability.

Manny Harris picked the Gophs apart last night and made Sims look all world. If Tubby can sign a complete PG it's a team to look out for next year, assuming most of the core is back.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
I'm pretty sure Roy threw his players under the bus a couple times at the beginning of the season.
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Roy throws his players under the bus more than any coach I've ever seen. To say that he doesn't is just misinformed and laughable, especially in a season like they are having right now.
 

dboy said:
these comments don't hurt the players as much as you think..

most of them think he's referring to someone else on the team..

(williams: yeah, i could use a PG who could throw better alley-oops).
(bostick: yeah, i could use a PF who could free me up to play the 3).
(RS3: yeah, a good PF could relieve me of this nasty rebounding).

etc..
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Actually true in some cases I saw. And, I thank you for the laughter I just had. :D

Better reading this than the obvious about the loss. Keep it up, baller.
 

Looking in the mirror

Sounds like Tubby is looking in the mirror. Basically he said he needs to recruit better and get better players- nothing wrong with stating a fact its an obvious reality...
 

This is a few weeks old, but I just came across it. If we don't get Cory do we need to go after another one of these PG or grab a jr college kid? I'm not liking what we are seeing form Cobbs and we don't want to see Devoe starting or playing backup pg in future seasons. http://www.maxpreps.com/news/bPnA4g...ruiting--americas-top-available-prospects.htm

Class of 2010 Available Prospects

Lead Guards

Brandon Knight, Pine Crest (Fort Lauderdale, Fla.) – Considering Connecticut, Florida, Kansas, Kentucky, Miami

The national Gatorade Player of Year as a junior, Knight has led Pine Crest to back-to-back state titles and started since eighth grade. He has the Panthers off to a 12-2 start. As a rising junior, Knight led Team Breakdown to the AAU National Championship and Reebok Summer Championship playing alongside Kenny Boynton. This past summer, he was named an All-Star at the NBA Players Association Top 100 Camp, attended the Nike LeBron James Skills Academy and was a member of the adidas Nations program. He entered his senior season having come off an ankle injury during summer play while teaming alongside top junior Austin Rivers for Each One Teach One Elite.

Cory Joseph, Findlay Prep (Henderson, Nev.) – Connecticut, Minnesota, UNLV, Texas, Villanova

Spending his second season at Findlay Prep after winning a high school national championship tournament alongside Avery Bradley (current freshman at University of Texas), the Canadian native played for his homeland’s Under-19 team during this past summer’s FIBA event in New Zealand. He also traveled to France as a part of the 2K Sports All-American team and attended the NBA Players Association Top 100 Camp, along with playing in the Elite 24 Classic. Joseph’s brother Devoe plays at Minnesota and running mate at both Findlay and on the Canadian U-19 team Tristan Thompson signed with Texas.

Ray McCallum, Detroit County Day (Beverly Hills, Mich.) – Arizona, Detroit Mercy, Florida, UCLA

Scored 34 points in big early-season win against Indiana state champion Bishop Luers. Led Team Detroit to Reebok Summer Championships this past July. Also traveled to France as part of 2KSports All-American team, attended NBA Players Association Top 100 camp and Nike LeBron James Skills Academy. Father is head coach at Detroit Mercy.

Best of the rest lead guards

Jamie Adams, Hales Franciscan (Chicago, Ill.) – Increasing his profile this season and following in footsteps of younger brother Jerome Randle (University of California).

Bryon Allen, St. Thomas More (Oakdale, Conn.) – One-time West Virginia commit thriving during senior year in prep school ranks after two years at Oak Hill Academy.

Deonte Burton, Centennial (Compton, Calif.) – After sitting out junior year, earned MVP honors at Westchester’s early-season invitational while posting big numbers against top California competition.

LaBradford Franklin, Great Oak (Temecula, Calif.) – Late bloomer transferred for senior season.

Fabyon Harris (Hyde Park/Chicago, Ill.) – Continues to wreak havoc after summer of leading Illinois Warriors to multiple tournament championships playing in backcourt alongside Oregon State signee Ahmad Starks of Chicago Whitney Young.

Jordair Jett, Notre Dame Prep (Fitchburg, Mass.) – Led St. Bernard’s to first Minnesota state title game as a senior and now doing a post-graduate year in New England prep school ranks.

Jordin Mayes, Westchester (Los Angeles, Calif.) – Transitioning to being full-time point guard for traditional power Westchester.

K.C. Ross Miller, God’s Academy (Dallas, Texas) – One-time Kentucky commit to old staff continues to post big numbers after being on the radar since freshman year.

Daryl Traynham, Lee Academy (Lee, Maine) – Sub-six-foot defensive stopper is a Maryland native spending year up north alongside summer teammate Max Esho (Massachusetts signee).
 

GopherNation said:
Tubby's right. We just aren't that good. I think watching these players play for all these years and watching their growth has been exciting and we expect more out of them, but there's a reason Monson could recruit them. Westbrook - terrible decision making, poor attitude, poor defense, Damien - no offense, Hoffaber - one tool player, Nolen - no offense, no creation, you need to give Tubby time to develop his freshman/soph players (Not Paul Carter, not bostick). Tubby just got jr college players to try to make is team better now, but we all know the future is devoe and sampson.
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I tend to agree with you here. In watching last night's game, the guys were just plain lazy in a lot of situations, which is completely unacceptable. Therefore, in my eyes, they all need to be called out. Watching Devron and Lawrence basically sit there and watch loose balls get recovered by Michigan while they were right there tells me everything I need to know at this point. When you don't have a bevy of McDonald's All-Americans running up and down the floor, you need to have max effort in order to be successful. For 2 of the last 3 games now, the guys have played lazy basketball on both ends. In other words, a whole lot of them have simply given up. And that leads to being called out by a coach.

If the guys actually think this kind of effort is acceptable, then they should transfer right now. But it's pretty obvious that a lot of guys on this team just don't want to work very hard right now and that as a result, we need some new blood. Whether that fix comes from next season's class, the return of Mbakwe, White or Nolen, or the guys who come back a year older next year I'm not sure. But there are certain guys on this team that are consistently not doing the job now and are apparently just fine with it.
 

Dr.Don said:
Go4, don't be so hard on yourself. I mean I am not perfect, because one time I thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I was right.
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I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
 

Guys guys guys…. The frustration in all our voices is understandable. And Tubby has every right to be so upset that he is fuming. Talent only gets you so far, last night the team lacked effort. That’s E.F.F.O.R.T.!! Not going after loose balls, making sloppy passes, slow cuts to the basket, stood and waited for the pass instead of moving on offense, and overall playing what seemed to be uninterested basketball. I’m not sure what it looked like on tv but being at the game it simply looked like Michigan’s athletes were far superior to ours. They did all the little things and honestly whipped our butts.

But let’s be honest, if you were a player working your butt off on this team hoping for the best and your two ‘star’ players couldn’t keep their hands out of handcuffs and your point guard couldn’t stay out of the principal’s office, wouldn’t you be frustrated too?

Sadly, this year is going to be a wash and we can only hope for better things next year. With effort like last night I don’t see who this team can beat, Big Ten or NIT Tournament.
 

Tubby is right, we do have to recruit better players - ones that can contribute. Mbakwe, White, Nolan didn't contribute this game. Mbakwe & White had a bit of fuzz on them but he recruited, gambled and lost this year. In the future Tubby may choose not to gamble on those types of players and not recruit less marginal, but better players that have better odds of contributing.
 

Great players are the key to winning, and great players can make good coaches look better.

Great coaches are able to attract the great players in sufficient numbers, and then convince them to play with a team first attitude.
 

dboy said:
Self may have a team 'full of 4 and 5 star players', but Izzo does not. the gophers last two classes were ranked higher that Sparty's.
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Players ranked in the Top 100 of their high school class are considered 4-star players.

The RSCI on Michigan State shows that 10 of their thirteen scholarship players were in the consensus Top 100 of their respective classes. The Gophers have 3. (Sampson, Joseph, and Williams)

Michigan State: 5* Roe (10) 4* Green (95) Lucious (87) Nix (88) Summers (28) Lucas (34) Allen (38) Herzog (47) Dahlman (67) Morgan (34)

This is by far the most in the conference. You still think that Izzo doesn't have that great of talent? Sure some players may not have developed but...
 

Sounded classless as well to me, Tubby's comment.

But I want to reserve judgment since I never heard the interview. The press can be manipulative. Remember Vijay Singh before the Bank of America Colonial saying in 2003 "I hope Annika Sorenstam misses the cut?" The Associated Press' correspondent later admitted that he had selectively quoted Singh's comments, deliberately misrepresenting the tenor of his remarks to spice up the story. Singh also later said after a tour victory several years later that what he said was "If I miss the cut I hope Annika Sorenstam misses the cut." Can't trust the press.
 

macgopher said:
Sounded classless as well to me, Tubby's comment.

But I want to reserve judgment since I never heard the interview. The press can be manipulative. Remember Vijay Singh before the Bank of America Colonial saying in 2003 "I hope Annika Sorenstam misses the cut?" The Associated Press' correspondent later admitted that he had selectively quoted Singh's comments, deliberately misrepresenting the tenor of his remarks to spice up the story. Singh also later said after a tour victory several years later that what he said was "If I miss the cut I hope Annika Sorenstam misses the cut." Can't trust the press.
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Maybe if VJ wasn't such an a-hole he would not have been mis-quoted.
 

GibsonSG said:
Players ranked in the Top 100 of their high school class are considered 4-star players.

The RSCI on Michigan State shows that 10 of their thirteen scholarship players were in the consensus Top 100 of their respective classes. The Gophers have 3. (Sampson, Joseph, and Williams)

Michigan State: 5* Roe (10) 4* Green (95) Lucious (87) Nix (88) Summers (28) Lucas (34) Allen (38) Herzog (47) Dahlman (67) Morgan (34)

This is by far the most in the conference. You still think that Izzo doesn't have that great of talent? Sure some players may not have developed but...
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in the last two years,
izzo brought in: 5* (1), 4* (3)
we brought in: 5* (1), 4* (3)
Kansas: 5* (2), 4* (7).

sorry, I don't see much of a difference between sparty and us... in fact, i see no difference ( tubby era ).

and I don't see how one 5* for Sparty makes it "a bunch of 5 stars"

and I don't see 10 4/5*'s for sparty. I see seven. also, several of the 4*'s are borderline with other sites ranking them as 3*s. ( green is 123 on Rivals, Dahlman 112, lucious 98th, sherman 76th, etc )

and to the guy that said 'bring in a bunch of 4 and 5 stars like Kansas and MSU"... also sorry.. MSU is not even in the same league talent-wise as Kansas.
 

if the players suck, they suck. I like Tubby telling it like it is. Brewster says we need to get bigger, stronger, faster. Is that classless and offensive to our current players?
 

bankonit said:
Brewster says we need to get bigger, stronger, faster. Is that classless and offensive to our current players?
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Nope, it's not.

The Brewster comments and Tubby comments are totally different actually. You can get your guys in the weight room, get them bigger, stronger, faster. Tubby's comment comes off like he doesn't want to deal with his current crop of players, and can't wait to bring in more talent.

The problem; he is the one that recruited the majority of the team, including some of it's major disappointments.
 

RE: Tubby and recruiting the "better players"

IMO the reason Tubby has had trouble in recent years getting the very top players is a simple one.
Imagine yourself as an 18 year old hot shot player who is rated as one of the best in high school.
All of the top colleges want you. You have dreams of playing in the NBA and making millions.
First off, there is nothing wrong with that. We all have goals and dreams. Anyway,
These kids learn about coaches and their styles from everyone from their high school coach on down.
Tubby is known as a "defense" coach. Listen to him and pay attention to how much he talks defense.
Of course defense is important but top teams must have both. You can't be so focused on defense you
forget the ball has to go in the basket when you have it.

So, as that top recruit, are you going to pick a college where you will be taught to work on your offensive skills,
where you are given some latitude to slash, drive, score, assist, etc. Are you going to pick a school that is
going to be on the highlight films showing you having career highs as the NBA scouts sit back and watch.
OR
Do you pick Tubby where all he talks about is "getting ready to play defense" , "work harder on defense"
"sit on the bench and think about defense"
The kids that get the programs in the top 10 are not in love with defense the way Tubby is.
You may not like it but teams that are going to be some of the last ones standing in March have got to
have at least 1 or even 2 to 3 players that are future NBA bound players. Those players are going to tell
Tubby "thanks, but no thanks"

That leaves Tubby to pick over good serviceable players, projects, JUCO's and the type of players that
would be clean up subs for the elite teams. They will give him 4 good years and he will reward them with
playing time as juniors and seniors. He is just not going to get enough of the type of kids that will break
his team into the top 10 - 15 and be able to keep them there.
 

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