Troubling news for UW Program

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Ole said:
Our resident badger lover chiming in.

If he had a host along with him for the drinking that host would likely know plenty about the state of mind, events leading up to alleged crime, etc. If the coach assigned said host he's responsible since the kid was 17 on an overnight trip away from his parents.
Thanks for speaking for my character. This type of crap happens too often, so yes I would care if it happened somewhere else. I hope they hammer the kid if he's guilty and anyone who was involved in the incident. How's your character today?
As for whether I care more because it's wisconsin. I just think barry keeps too many really awful things quiet and this likely will be another one that doesn't touch his program, so I hope everything is actually brought to light and justice is done here which hasn't always happened down in drunkville madison under alverez.
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Are capable of reading? No where did I speak to your character, I simply stated that if you only cared because it's Wisconsin it would be a smudge on your character. Why don't you try to get a little more riled up over nothing.

And if we're going to keep going up the chain, why don't we take it up to the Governor, who ultimately is in charge of the state's public schools. In some way, shape or form his decisions lead to the hiring of a coach, a coach who is in charge of recruit coordination who put a player in charge of the 17 year old. Let's get him to testify because I'm sure that would do a whole hell of a lot of good. Why don't you try to find some more imaginery skeletons and boogeymen that we can scare up.

However, once again, you seem to not care that justice be brought for the crime but rather than finally some sticks it to Barry Alvarez and the program.
 


maroonedinCA said:
Are capable of reading? No where did I speak to your character, I simply stated that if you only cared because it's Wisconsin it would be a smudge on your character. Why don't you try to get a little more riled up over nothing.

And if we're going to keep going up the chain, why don't we take it up to the Governor, who ultimately is in charge of the state's public schools. In some way, shape or form his decisions lead to the hiring of a coach, a coach who is in charge of recruit coordination who put a player in charge of the 17 year old. Let's get him to testify because I'm sure that would do a whole hell of a lot of good. Why don't you try to find some more imaginery skeletons and boogeymen that we can scare up.

However, once again, you seem to not care that justice be brought for the crime but rather than finally some sticks it to Barry Alvarez and the program.
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OK:rolleyes:

The 17 year old kid was on an OFFICIAL visit. Under direct responsibility of the football program on an overnight visit without parental supervision.

You are saying nobody bears any responsibility or scrutiny besides the alleged criminal? None? He spent all day with the football coaches, players, admin, and likely all day on Sunday the day after. They have plenty to do with what happened that night.

It's not even worth discussing with you because you are so obviously deflecting blame away from anyone and everyone badger. In the end a serious and disgusting crime was committed that will have dramatic consequences for the victim and the accused.
We should all hope that justice is done, and I hope that barry doesn't see to it that anything less occurs because he's done it before in order to protect his program from itself.
 

Unregistered User said:
First post:



(better save this before he realizes it and edits)

Second post:



Oh, and isn't it about time we ban this jack-hole?
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Let us take a deep breath, and calm down. We have something to be thankful for here. Although this recruit allegedly committed one of the worst crimes a human can do to another, no birds died. That is a step in the right direction. Isn't it?
 

Somewhat Ironic in that "Law & Order-SVU" did a recent episode about a FB recruit who gets into trouble on a recruiting visit, and the investigation reveals long-time misconduct by the host school.

Seriously, IF there is an investigation, the authorities would definitely want to establish a timeline for the kid's activities - "when did he start drinking" - "where did he get the booze" - "was anyone supposed to be supervising him?" Personally, I doubt that anyone will implicate the program - but if the authorities can come up with any evidence showing that the kid got the booze from WI players, or the players "allowed" him to get drunk while underage, then I could potentially see some criminal charges.
 



Unregistered User said:
First post:



(better save this before he realizes it and edits)

Second post:



Oh, and isn't it about time we ban this jack-hole?
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Please feel free to explain where I contradicted myself? I know you don't like me but you can't refute the fact that my initial statement clearly indicated that there were parameters to my judgment of character. But way to put yourself out on a limb. Better luck next time.
 

Ole said:
I would hope there's some repercussions for the program considering he was underage and drunk on an official visit.
Say what you want about college sports and recruiting but I doubt it's an acceptable situation in the NCAA's eyes even without the rape.
We all know Barry will sweep this one aside, just like the perv that worked for him for 20 years and suddenly had a problem keeping his hands off the interns and serving them booze at the rose bowl. Dirty drunken school, but they know how to keep themselves out of major trouble with the authorities.
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How should we have been punished for Dom Jones?
 

GhostofBronko said:
It's nice of you to take the time from posting your personal rape diary over at Buckyville to teach us all how we should react to this story.
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Thanks for taking the time to read my posts on other sites. Please read it again and note that it wasn't rape, rather consensual, aggressive sex which led to a kidney infection (her's, my kidneys are fine). Do you have a daughter?

I like that the mods on their OT board let the people decide.
 



Ole said:
OK:rolleyes:

The 17 year old kid was on an OFFICIAL visit. Under direct responsibility of the football program on an overnight visit without parental supervision.

You are saying nobody bears any responsibility or scrutiny besides the alleged criminal? None? He spent all day with the football coaches, players, admin, and likely all day on Sunday the day after. They have plenty to do with what happened that night.

It's not even worth discussing with you because you are so obviously deflecting blame away from anyone and everyone badger. In the end a serious and disgusting crime was committed that will have dramatic consequences for the victim and the accused.
We should all hope that justice is done, and I hope that barry doesn't see to it that anything less occurs because he's done it before in order to protect his program from itself.
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I'm in complete agreement with you on the major points above. The accused, if guilty, should face the harshest possible consequences deemed necessary to alleviate the suffering of the victim. If the football program and school at large are in anyway implicated in it they too should face consequences. But, where I have a problem is your seeming need to put the punishment of the school (which hasn't been implicated in even the slightest) above the punishment of the individual to redeem for the heinous apparent crime.

You continue to say "BA covers up crimes" without any actual evidence of such. The dude at the Rose Bowl was immediately fired. The fight by football players that resulted in Ball getting assaulted ended up being random street toughs that were roughing people up. If BA covered those up in anyway I'd agree with you but evidence suggests the athletic department had nothing to do with it and you're just defining conclusions or suppositions that fit your agenda.

Listen, I know I'm a bit of a pariah around here because I love the Gophers but respect the Badgers but I really do prefer if we are the one message board that is intelligent, even keeled and more supportive of our program rather than anti- our rival program.

Please enlighten me where I've deflected blame rather than simply pointing out where you're making up blame?
 

maroonedinCA said:
I'm in complete agreement with you on the major points above. The accused, if guilty, should face the harshest possible consequences deemed necessary to alleviate the suffering of the victim. If the football program and school at large are in anyway implicated in it they too should face consequences. But, where I have a problem is your seeming need to put the punishment of the school (which hasn't been implicated in even the slightest) above the punishment of the individual to redeem for the heinous apparent crime.

You continue to say "BA covers up crimes" without any actual evidence of such. The dude at the Rose Bowl was immediately fired. The fight by football players that resulted in Ball getting assaulted ended up being random street toughs that were roughing people up. If BA covered those up in anyway I'd agree with you but evidence suggests the athletic department had nothing to do with it and you're just defining conclusions or suppositions that fit your agenda.

Listen, I know I'm a bit of a pariah around here because I love the Gophers but respect the Badgers but I really do prefer if we are the one message board that is intelligent, even keeled and more supportive of our program rather than anti- our rival program.

Please enlighten me where I've deflected blame rather than simply pointing out where you're making up blame?
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MaroonedinCA, I strongly agree that I would like to see this board one that "is intelligent, even keeled and more supportive of our program than anti-our rival program." I remain, though, troubled by the Cizauskas incident. I'm certainly glad that he won't be playing here. I recognize that coaches can't supervise their players 24/7, but a recruit on an official visit who gets drunk and possibly rapes a girl is more than very troublesome. I know that there have been allegations that other programs have used sex and other inappropriate inducements to attract players to their programs, but the suggestion made by a poster in this thread that this sort of thing is common place, including at the University of Minnesota is very disturbing to me. I certainly hope that this isn't occurring at Minnesota, and I very much doubt that Minnesota under Kill would tolerate it. I think host schools bear a very heavy responsibility to assure that inappropriate conduct does not occur on an official visit, and when it does occur, I think the burden falls upon the host school to demonstrate that they had in place adequate procedures to prevent this sort of conduct. I hope Wisconsin is required to make that demonstration. If it is not, the continuation of this kind of behavior, in my opinion, is on the NCAA.
 

maroonedinCA said:
Please feel free to explain where I contradicted myself? I know you don't like me but you can't refute the fact that my initial statement clearly indicated that there were parameters to my judgment of character. But way to put yourself out on a limb. Better luck next time.
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O.K. Where to start?

maroonedinCA said:
And is your last statement only because it's Wisconsin?
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Ole's actual last statement from the post:

Ole said:
(again, even though it happens everywhere)
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Any reasonable person would assume this relates to the issue of recruits drinking with their hosts (hammering shots alone) during official visits rather than the rape of which the recruit is accused.

Additionally, from the same post:
Ole said:
I understand, it's not specific to wisconsin.
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I feel the need to reiterate I believe that Ole is speaking to the host/recruit drinking rather than the accused rape allegations.

And in regards to your "clearly indicated...parameters":

maroonedinCA said:
And is your last statement only because it's Wisconsin? Would you care if it was elsewhere? If so that sort of speaks to your character...
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Asked and answered...next witness.

Nice job setting up the most juvenile type of qualifier - "I'm not saying you're an asshole, it's just that only an asshole would say something like that. But again, I'm not saying you're an asshole, asshole."

I'm quite comfortable on my limb. If you were confident in your accusations of Ole, you would have made statements, not ask questions, but you wanted to leave yourself some space to deflect once again, didn't you?

I'm also quite comfortable knowing that you would prefer to debate semantics rather than discuss the roles and responsibilities of an AD who would have himself and his family invest $1MM with a guy he met once (1 time) [Not shady Shalala], knocked up a cheerleader, and no; I don't have DNA evidence of the aborted fetus (good friend went to high school with Paul Chryst, I was at a party with him (Chryst), and have no doubt), would cover up the rape of students by Chadima, etc. etc. etc.

p.s. I hope there is no next time.
 

I'm sorry to say, 17 year old MINORS need to be supervised. If he was left unattended and he raped a girl on campus, which is a horrible crime, hell yeah, the team is responsible, the school is responsible, the coach is responsible, the AD is responsible, the President of the University is responsible, the PARENTS are partially responsible. Even if he only got drunk and behaved, there should be consequences. It is ILLEGAL to serve a minor or to buy them alcohol or to just give it to them. The whole idea that it happens at every school and so school X shouldn't get punished is part of the problem.
 




PartoPitinosPosse said:
I'm sorry to say, 17 year old MINORS need to be supervised. If he was left unattended and he raped a girl on campus, which is a horrible crime, hell yeah, the team is responsible, the school is responsible, the coach is responsible, the AD is responsible, the President of the University is responsible, the PARENTS are partially responsible. Even if he only got drunk and behaved, there should be consequences. It is ILLEGAL to serve a minor or to buy them alcohol or to just give it to them. The whole idea that it happens at every school and so school X shouldn't get punished is part of the problem.
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Others have said it better than I could.

If this exact thing happened at the U, Kill and the program would be getting rightfully skewered by everyone. I'd be pissed at the program and I'm a huge homer.

To simply dismiss the UW football program from any wrongdoing here is ridiculous.
 

maroonedinCA said:
You continue to say "BA covers up crimes" without any actual evidence of such. The dude at the Rose Bowl was immediately fired.
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Uhm...no. Sexual assault against students, providing liquor to underage students, and getting them drunk was not enough for barry to fire Chadima. He was suspended and then he resigned his position.

And I'm quite certain that barry would have kept him "on his staff" if those damn reporters didn't make such a big issue about drunken, teenage sexual assault.
 

vagopher said:
MaroonedinCA, I strongly agree that I would like to see this board one that "is intelligent, even keeled and more supportive of our program than anti-our rival program." I remain, though, troubled by the Cizauskas incident. I'm certainly glad that he won't be playing here. I recognize that coaches can't supervise their players 24/7, but a recruit on an official visit who gets drunk and possibly rapes a girl is more than very troublesome. I know that there have been allegations that other programs have used sex and other inappropriate inducements to attract players to their programs, but the suggestion made by a poster in this thread that this sort of thing is common place, including at the University of Minnesota is very disturbing to me. I certainly hope that this isn't occurring at Minnesota, and I very much doubt that Minnesota under Kill would tolerate it. I think host schools bear a very heavy responsibility to assure that inappropriate conduct does not occur on an official visit, and when it does occur, I think the burden falls upon the host school to demonstrate that they had in place adequate procedures to prevent this sort of conduct. I hope Wisconsin is required to make that demonstration. If it is not, the continuation of this kind of behavior, in my opinion, is on the NCAA.
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This scenario is every coaching staffs worst nightmare but I think it is really naive to think that the drinking and partying does not go on at pretty much every school during an official visit. Underage drinking is commonplace on college campuses to begin with (thanks to fox 9 for blowing the lid off that hidden secret a few years ago) so if a recruit wants to party on their visit you can bet their hosts are going to do whatever they can to make it happen. The hope is that everyone will be smart about it and usually that is the case but every once and a while you get a terrible situation like this that pops up.

I am in no way trying to condone the system or say it is right but I think it is foolish to pretend it is not going on pretty much everywhere.
 

MNVCGUY said:
This scenario is every coaching staffs worst nightmare but I think it is really naive to think that the drinking and partying does not go on at pretty much every school during an official visit. Underage drinking is commonplace on college campuses to being with with (thanks to fox 9 for blowing the lid off that hidden secret a few years ago) so if a recruit wants to party on their visit you can bet their hosts are going to do whatever they can to make it happen. The hope is that everyone will be smart about it and usually that is the case but every once and a while you get a terrible situation like this that pops up.

I am in no way trying to condone the system or say it is right but I think it is foolish to pretend it is not going on pretty much everywhere.
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I don't disagree, but I think there is a need to change the culture, and its the NCAA's responsibility to do that. In the past couple of years we've seen too many instances where things have gotten out of control on official visits. I'm not going to name schools, but I suspect most Gopherholers are aware of at least some of them. The current culture is not going to change with slaps on the hand. The NCAA has to hold member schools to a higher standard.
 

I'm still wondering how we should be punished for the Dom Jones incident.
 


It's all fun and games until the cops come. The 17 year old kid must be held accountable. The people that left him unattended must be held accountable. The people that supplied the liquor must be held accountable.
This isn't 1982. Times have changed. The attitude of supplying liquor to the young ones is dumb. We have two shining examples in recent months. The story in Wisconsin is bad, but the story out of Dawson, MN is awful. That kid had a promising sports career ahead of him at St. Johns. It's snuffed out as he died while running from the cops and dying of exposure during this brutal winter. The father and son were recently arrested. It can't change what happened. Maybe it will open some eyes. It should.
 

Let's stop the nonsense here. The kid was 17 not 6. He is responsible for his actions. The school shouldn't be punished.
 

Spoofin said:
Let's stop the nonsense here. The kid was 17 not 6. He is responsible for his actions. The school shouldn't be punished.
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And being 17 makes him a minor. You do understand that, don't you?
 

Spoofin said:
Let's stop the nonsense here. The kid was 17 not 6. He is responsible for his actions. The school shouldn't be punished.
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I agree with you on the point that the school/team is not the one at fault but whoever supplied the alcohol that got this underage kid drunk and led to the alleged rape deserves to have the book thrown at them.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I agree with you on the point that the school/team is not the one at fault but whoever supplied the alcohol that got this underage kid drunk and led to the alleged rape deserves to have the book thrown at them.
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Ha. Good luck finding any of those around the Becky fb program.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I agree with you on the point that the school/team is not the one at fault but whoever supplied the alcohol that got this underage kid drunk and led to the alleged rape deserves to have the book thrown at them.
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What if it was a player chaperone under direction from a coach? Whether or not the coach knew booze would be provided, SOMEONE from the program was in charge of him for that weekend. It was an official visit by a minor, they didn't spend all weekend with him then cut him loose Sat night with no supervision. Even if they did, they're still responsible for him.
 

CWCWCW said:
It's all fun and games until the cops come. The 17 year old kid must be held accountable. The people that left him unattended must be held accountable. The people that supplied the liquor must be held accountable.
This isn't 1982. Times have changed. The attitude of supplying liquor to the young ones is dumb. We have two shining examples in recent months. The story in Wisconsin is bad, but the story out of Dawson, MN is awful. That kid had a promising sports career ahead of him at St. Johns. It's snuffed out as he died while running from the cops and dying of exposure during this brutal winter. The father and son were recently arrested. It can't change what happened. Maybe it will open some eyes. It should.
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Terrible tradgedy, no doubt.

The Dawson kid should have taken his medicine and talked to the cops. His own fault he died.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I agree with you on the point that the school/team is not the one at fault but whoever supplied the alcohol that got this underage kid drunk and led to the alleged rape deserves to have the book thrown at them.
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I drank a lot when I was underage. I didn't rape anyone but did a lot of dumb things when drunk underage. I never for a second blamed those dumb things I did on anyone other than myself. The nice folks who got me the booze at fault for what I did? Hell no. This is on the kid, period.
 

MNVCGUY said:
This scenario is every coaching staffs worst nightmare but I think it is really naive to think that the drinking and partying does not go on at pretty much every school during an official visit. Underage drinking is commonplace on college campuses to begin with (thanks to fox 9 for blowing the lid off that hidden secret a few years ago) so if a recruit wants to party on their visit you can bet their hosts are going to do whatever they can to make it happen. The hope is that everyone will be smart about it and usually that is the case but every once and a while you get a terrible situation like this that pops up.

I am in no way trying to condone the system or say it is right but I think it is foolish to pretend it is not going on pretty much everywhere.
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Could not have put it better myself. Recruiting is a scummy business. Read "The System" which came out last year, or the SI series on Oklahoma State football, and those are just a couple of instances that have been written about. The mindset is "sign them at all costs." Recruits are given the "college experience" on visits, which means parties and girls and all that goes along with that. This instance is beyond horrible if true. Rape is one of the worst things that can happen to a person, and if true, I hope that this kid gets locked up for a long time. That said, to think that the party atmosphere around recruiting doesn't happen at most major college programs is horribly naive.

It's not just recruiting either. The incidents at Mizzou and Notre Dame where players were protected and rape victims shamed "because football" are disgraceful. College football is as dirty as boxing and cycling.
 


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