Time to be honest with ourselves...

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Correct answer, or at least a significant portion of it: offensive playcalling is a black magic art that cannot be taught, you just have to be instinctively good at it.


Don't think KC was a genie, but he was certainly better than Sanford and is proving to be a similar story with Harbaugh Jr.
 

kg21 said:
PFF grades all of the players who play in the game. 14 players were graded in this game on offense. AK was number 1 and Daniel Jackson was number 2. The offensive line graded out last. Greg Johnson was 14 of the 14 graded. The offensive line blew for a good share of the game. We just don't have the talent on offense. And yes, AK missing that throw and not running for the first down was brutal.
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PFF isn't the end all to be all. Johnson did have a rough game though.

In the 2nd half AK was 2/11 for 37 yds, a TD and 2 sacks. Take away the one completion to DJ for the TD, and he was 1/10 for 6 yards. AK once again failed to complete a number of easy throws because he has no touch. That is the most frustrating thing with him.

That's QB play isn't going to win you anything in a close game. He had chances to take control at end the game himself, and didn't.
 
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GopherWeatherGuy said:
PFF isn't the end all to be all. Johnson did have a rough game though.

In the 2nd half AK was 2/11 for 37 yds, a TD and 2 sacks. Take away the one completion to DJ for the TD, and he was 1/10 for 6 yards. AK once again failed to complete a number of easy throws because he has no touch. That is the most frustrating thing with him.

That's QB play isn't going to win you anything in a close game. He had chances to take control and end the game himself, and didn't.
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Agreed.
My only question for this line of thinking. Is it on the QB, or is it on the way he is coached?

Head coach, OC, or QB coach. How hard is it to teach this kid some touch? Can we work on his accuracy as well?
If he's been taught multiple times in practice to throw that type of ball with some touch and he flat out rifles it again and again during games - BENCH HIM.

This is not the first time we have seen rifle shots at close range, terrible inaccurate throws on passes less than 10 yards. Fix it in practice, or go a different way if he refuses to change it. Sick of watching this JV QB play.
 

Time to be honest with ourselves...​

This is why we are always picked after Wisconsin, Iowa, and, yes, sometimes Nebraska to win the West. This is why we are seldom, if ever, given a nod in the preseason rankings. Everybody outside of Minnesota sees it but us and we're too stubborn to admit it. We get offended when some washed up ex-QB with a Twitter account whose dad used to coach here ranks our quarterback at the bottom of some list because for some reason we think after a couple of good games last year he is the next Drew Brees. We rant online when Beth Mowins is assigned to announce our games when we think we should get the prime afternoon game. We turn into curmudgeons when the student section clears out after halftime, but who can blame them?...I imagine at 21 a keg party on frat row sounds more fun that watching an offense sputter.

I chatted with an Illinois fan after the game...nice guy by the way. He offered some apologies for stealing the victory, but I told him "no worries, we've seen this movie before". He said that he had talked to some Gopher fans and overheard some Gopher fans and got the sense we think our team is much, much better than his team. He said, "you know, we're really both the same". He was not wrong.

What we are seeing on the field and on the sidelines is who and what we are. Until we actually win something. I will never predict us to win something. But I will keep watching because I am too stubborn.*

*At least until NIL and the transfer portal really, really fucks everything up.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
PFF isn't the end all to be all. Johnson did have a rough game though.

In the 2nd half AK was 2/11 for 37 yds, a TD and 2 sacks. Take away the one completion to DJ for the TD, and he was 1/10 for 6 yards. AK once again failed to complete a number of easy throws because he has no touch. That is the most frustrating thing with him.

That's QB play isn't going to win you anything in a close game. He had chances to take control and end the game himself, and didn't.
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Some of the second half issue had to be the Ilini's DT Newton playing in the second half. PFF had him at 1 sack and 2 hurries in limited playing time - I'm not going to go back and watch, but knowing Bielema, he was probably matched against the Goph's weakest OL players and disruptive.

Regarding AK and the passing game, the final set of downs only needing a FG were frustrating. IL was rushing at least 5 players, yet the pass patterns were all deep (mainly straight routes) with no outlet receivers crossing underneath. AK had very little time to throw with few good options. My buddy and I came to the realization that those pass patterns are probably on purpose because AK has difficulty hitting an accurate crossing pattern. If so, that's a real issue.
 



I mean, what could you possibly expect playing an 18 year old against a mid season All American??

If Cooper couldn’t go, fine. If GJ is really the best option we had, fine. I’m not going to blame that young man for trying his butt off and coming up short against a war daddy, on some plays.

I don’t think that matchup is why we lost the game.
 

The ILL fan in @FredCoxRocks story is absolutely right.

They have some good players, we have some good players.

But college football is the opposite of fair. It’s purposely setup to prevent schools like Minnesota and Illinois from having a fair amount of talent to match Michigan and Ohio State.

It’s a cabal and we’re not allowed to get a seat at the table.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
Kansas is a basketball school and always will be. We could easily sell Leipold on the fact that Minnesota is unequivocally NOT a basketball school. Anyone can see that.
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Maybe we should hire the Kansas QB coach - Zebrowski - the same one everyone hated when he was here.
 



Tim from Rosemount said:
Hauck from Montana or Leopold from Kansas.
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Jason Eck from Idaho via SDSU Jackrabbits. Once upon a time when SDSU almost beat Fleck lead team, Fleck called Jason Eck and asked him what did you see in our defense that allowed you to move the ball on us. Fleck should of hired Jason then as OC.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Some of the second half issue had to be the Ilini's DT Newton playing in the second half. PFF had him at 1 sack and 2 hurries in limited playing time - I'm not going to go back and watch, but knowing Bielema, he was probably matched against the Goph's weakest OL players and disruptive.

Regarding AK and the passing game, the final set of downs only needing a FG were frustrating. IL was rushing at least 5 players, yet the pass patterns were all deep (mainly straight routes) with no outlet receivers crossing underneath. AK had very little time to throw with few good options. My buddy and I came to the realization that those pass patterns are probably on purpose because AK has difficulty hitting an accurate crossing pattern. If so, that's a real issue.
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At the risk of pissing myself off, I went back and watched the last few plays. I was wrong on the above. He had Jackson open on 2nd down and Spencer open on 4th down, both crossing patterns near the 1st down marker in single coverage...but he held on to the ball. Same shit all year.
 





Panthadad2 said:
Some of the second half issue had to be the Ilini's DT Newton playing in the second half. PFF had him at 1 sack and 2 hurries in limited playing time - I'm not going to go back and watch, but knowing Bielema, he was probably matched against the Goph's weakest OL players and disruptive.

Regarding AK and the passing game, the final set of downs only needing a FG were frustrating. IL was rushing at least 5 players, yet the pass patterns were all deep (mainly straight routes) with no outlet receivers crossing underneath. AK had very little time to throw with few good options. My buddy and I came to the realization that those pass patterns are probably on purpose because AK has difficulty hitting an accurate crossing pattern. If so, that's a real issue.
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A couple of things. First, weakest OL? They’re all weak, not difficult to line up against this OL. Secondly, if youwatch the last plays again, you will see receivers running crossing patterns, not straight down the field go patterns.
 

Jack jones said:
A couple of things. First, weakest OL? They’re all weak, not difficult to line up against this OL. Secondly, if youwatch the last plays again, you will see receivers running crossing patterns, not straight down the field go patterns.
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I went back, watched the end of the game, and corrected myself elsewhere here on the crossing routes. Jackson on 2nd down and Spencer on 4th down were both single covered and open on crossing patterns at the sticks for a brief moment (typical for those routes) but AK held on to the ball and didn't throw to them.
 

Come on guys. Do you think we're the only program that loses close games, blows leads, etc.? Every other fan board looks just like this. Do you think Illinois fan board is full of happy people this year? They've drastically underperformed what Coach Bielema was expected to produce this year. I don't think we're as unique as you think we are. It was actually fun reading the apocalyptic posts on the Alabama fan board a few weeks ago! People are saying we should be 7-2 instead of 5-4 because we lost two close ones. We also won two close ones to Iowa and Nebraska that we could have lost. We're obviously an average team in the Big Ten. Our recruiting is plus or minus about average for the Big Ten. I think we probably have a top coach, but so do all the other teams since our conference has the most money in college football. This is the highest level of competition you can get minus the slightly better athletes in the SEC.

It was clear these two teams were very equal as are about all of the teams not including the big three. Some of our turnovers helped them, but some of their turnovers helped us too! Almost every week feels like a coin flip. We messed up the execution on several plays at the end that could have won it. I'm sure our coaching staff would like some calls back. Maybe we can do better than PJ Fleck, but maybe not. The Big Ten picks the coaches they want. Look at the two premium coaches that just joined Nebraska and Wisconsin. They didn't just take over the West as was predicted by the national press. Probably because there are already very good coaches in this league. If not, they get fired...eventually. I think the last 50 plus years has proven it's hard to build a winner at Minnesota. I don't mind those of you that want Fleck to get fired. He makes a TON of money to figure out how to be better than average at an average Big Ten school. I'm just not sure how easy it is to be better than average when everyone else has as much money (or more) than us to throw around. I'm in the camp to give him some more time and re-evaluate him and the starting quarterback at the end of the season.
 

SeaBee_Gopher said:
Come on guys. Do you think we're the only program that loses close games, blows leads, etc.? Every other fan board looks just like this. Do you think Illinois fan board is full of happy people this year? They've drastically underperformed what Coach Bielema was expected to produce this year. I don't think we're as unique as you think we are. It was actually fun reading the apocalyptic posts on the Alabama fan board a few weeks ago! People are saying we should be 7-2 instead of 5-4 because we lost two close ones. We also won two close ones to Iowa and Nebraska that we could have lost. We're obviously an average team in the Big Ten. Our recruiting is plus or minus about average for the Big Ten. I think we probably have a top coach, but so do all the other teams since our conference has the most money in college football. This is the highest level of competition you can get minus the slightly better athletes in the SEC.

It was clear these two teams were very equal as are about all of the teams not including the big three. Some of our turnovers helped them, but some of their turnovers helped us too! Almost every week feels like a coin flip. We messed up the execution on several plays at the end that could have won it. I'm sure our coaching staff would like some calls back. Maybe we can do better than PJ Fleck, but maybe not. The Big Ten picks the coaches they want. Look at the two premium coaches that just joined Nebraska and Wisconsin. They didn't just take over the West as was predicted by the national press. Probably because there are already very good coaches in this league. If not, they get fired...eventually. I think the last 50 plus years has proven it's hard to build a winner at Minnesota. I don't mind those of you that want Fleck to get fired. He makes a TON of money to figure out how to be better than average at an average Big Ten school. I'm just not sure how easy it is to be better than average when everyone else has as much money (or more) than us to throw around. I'm in the camp to give him some more time and re-evaluate him and the starting quarterback at the end of the season.
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This is being a fanatic. It's what we do. I looked at other conferences.

ACC (14) : 3 teams more than 1 game over .500 in conference play
B12 (14): 7 teams (Brought in G5 teams and only Baylor is below any of them in standings)
B10 (14): 4 Teams
PAC12 (12): 6 teams
SEC (14): 4 Teams

35% (24) of P5 teams are more than 1 game over .500 in conference play.
25% (17) are at or within 1 game of .500
40% (27) are more than 1 game under .500

Going into last weekend 18 or 26.5% of P5 teams have 1 or 0 conference wins.


There are a ton of programs that are getting used to the new normal of NIL and transfer portal.
 

NIL is changing things but gopher football changed long before it came along to soil college FB.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
Kansas is a basketball school and always will be. We could easily sell Leipold on the fact that Minnesota is unequivocally NOT a basketball school. Anyone can see that.
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Kansas has new facilities and more big money donors. Plus as a clear favorite to win the big 12 going forward, it’s an easier path to an expanded playoff than a bottom third big ten program. Minnesota sure as hell isn’t a football school anymore than Kansas is today either.
 

FWIW - checked the 247 composite recruiting rankings for MN

(year - conf ranking - national ranking)

2024 - 9 - 31
2023 - 9 - 46
2022 - 14 - 49
2021 - 8 - 38
2020 - 9 - 38
2019 - 10 - 45
2018 - 7 - 38

highest B1G ranking is 7th. highest national ranking is 31st - but that is for the current cycle and could change when classes are finalized. highest ranking for a completed class is 38th.

the 2024 rankings reflect the 4 additional teams in the B1G, so that is 9th out of 18 teams. again, not final.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
FWIW - checked the 247 composite recruiting rankings for MN

(year - conf ranking - national ranking)

2024 - 9 - 31
2023 - 9 - 46
2022 - 14 - 49
2021 - 8 - 38
2020 - 9 - 38
2019 - 10 - 45
2018 - 7 - 38

highest B1G ranking is 7th. highest national ranking is 31st - but that is for the current cycle and could change when classes are finalized. highest ranking for a completed class is 38th.

the 2024 rankings reflect the 4 additional teams in the B1G, so that is 9th out of 18 teams. again, not final.
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I think you and I and MaxyJR1 are on the same page. The Gophers are very average by most metrics so why are people surprised when we lose some close games and play like an average Big Ten team? We are what we are. Enjoy the ride and don't get too emotionally invested.
 


As a follower since 1971, if he beats Sconnie, this is a AWESOME season, seriously folks, this is really just the start of turning it around. You have to start with the biggest ghosts and build from there….it was so bad after the brew crew, we all knew it would take a couple of decades to turn it around. Yep, decades….
 

Mick Turition said:
A loss, time for Fleck haters to forget the previous 40 years before his arrival. I have not.
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I hear you. Its a different time now though.

B1G and SEC have huge advantages when recruiting.
TV exposure, program budgets, coaching salaries etc. Backed up by over the past 2 years like 20 something of the top 30 recruiting classes each year are B1G and SEC schools moving forward.

You're not gonna be absolutely terrible every year unless you're Vandy.

Again - its a different time.
 


SeaBee_Gopher said:
I think you and I and MaxyJR1 are on the same page. The Gophers are very average by most metrics so why are people surprised when we lose some close games and play like an average Big Ten team? We are what we are. Enjoy the ride and don't get too emotionally invested.
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Yep, we are right in the big jumble of teams behind Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State who can win or lose pretty much any weekend when going up against each other.

Wins are fun, loses are frustrating....but the meltdowns some people have after every loss are so over the top it is comical. Sports are meant to be entertainment, we have no control over the outcome so just enjoy it for what it is and if it bring so much anger and frustration to your life....find something better to do with your time.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
If I’m Coyle and I like what Fleck does for the program and University, I sit him down and say you’re done with any significant raises and we’re investing in an OC and his offense.

Fleck is a CEO and needs to change his best. Time for him to get someone to lead the offense. Fleck can still have a great culture and recruit the hell out if it.
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what sane OC is going to come shine Fleck's shoes every day and call him master?
 

Would love to know how much control Fleck exerts over the offense on gamedays.

How often does it happen, for example, that (co-)OC calls a pass and then Fleck gets on the headset and overrules it to demand a run?
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yep, we are right in the big jumble of teams behind Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State who can win or lose pretty much any weekend when going up against each other.

Wins are fun, loses are frustrating....but the meltdowns some people have after every loss are so over the top it is comical. Sports are meant to be entertainment, we have no control over the outcome so just enjoy it for what it is and if it bring so much anger and frustration to your life....find something better to do with your time.
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I would agree people get too lathered up.

But you have to acknowledge that the Gophers futility - the extreme losing streaks to our primary rivals, the completely predictable and consistent blowing of significant leads, the absolute inability to overcome even minor deficits, the inability to win the B1G West at any point which is consistently one of/the weakest division in P5 - is wild. It defies probability yet we all expect it in every game and every year, and it keeps coming true.

This is what drives the lather and what comes right after that is apathy.
 

SamSquatch said:
I would agree people get too lathered up.

But you have to acknowledge that the Gophers futility - the extreme losing streaks to our primary rivals, the completely predictable and consistent blowing of significant leads, the absolute inability to overcome even minor deficits, the inability to win the B1G West at any point which is consistently one of/the weakest division in P5 - is wild. It defies probability yet we all expect it in every game and every year, and it keeps coming true.

This is what drives the lather and what comes right after that is apathy.
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Until this year, I don't remember any "blowing of significant leads" in the Fleck years, much less "consistently". In fact, Northwestern is the only one I can think of.
 

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