Time for some changes

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JasonBourne21

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Many of you know that I'm a pretty positive person on this board, but major changes need to be made! I'm sorry but Adam Webber is not the answer, after three years he still can't read a standard cover 2 defense. :mad: Then on the defensive side of the ball we continue to play on our heels and are not taking any chances.. (Cosgrove was not a good hire)...

*** A plea to the U ***

Please, bring in somebody with some coaching credibility. Somone that has common knowledge of X's and O's. I feel like I'm watching the Wacker era unfold all over again!
 

It's the second quarter.

Purdue has started fast in basically every game this year. They were up 14-3 on Northwestern after the first quarter, 7-3 over Notre Dame, 7-0 over Northern Illinois and so on. Let the game play out.
 

It's not how Purdue is playing that is making this difficult, it's how Minnesota is playing.......
 

That was a solid defensive series.
 

3 point game. Come back from the ledge boys. :)
 




Well, let's evaluate your post.

Weber: Long pass to Decker. Gray looks shaky under center.

Defense: Turnover that they converted into a touchdown.

Let the game play out before you start judging. That's why they play all four quarters.
 

The 12th Man said:
Weber: Long pass to Decker. Gray looks shaky under center.
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I don't think that's really fair. Gray got flushed out of his lane and his first college attempt was a very difficult pass on the run. He evaded the pressure, made the correct read and just couldn't quite make the throw.
 



Khaliq said:
I don't think that's really fair. Gray got flushed out of his lane and his first college attempt was a very difficult pass on the run. He evaded the pressure, made the correct read and just couldn't quite make the throw.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason people on here want Gray in is because they think he has the ability to do something with those plays...that he is "electric" and can make plays on the run. My take is that if he were good enough to be starting, he would be.
 

The 12th Man said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason people on here want Gray in is because they think he has the ability to do something with those plays...that he is "electric" and can make plays on the run. My take is that if he were good enough to be starting, he would be.
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But he didn't get sacked which is what Weber would've gotten on that play because he's slower then Gray.........
 

The 12th Man said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason people on here want Gray in is because they think he has the ability to do something with those plays...that he is "electric" and can make plays on the run. My take is that if he were good enough to be starting, he would be.
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You can't make a concrete judgment on his ability to do that from a single snap.

You can't even make a cursory judgment.
 

Khaliq said:
You can't make a concrete judgment on his ability to do that from a single snap.

You can't even make a cursory judgment.
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Correct. And the "Gray is God" people on here can't do it either. I'm not saying Weber has been playing lights out. He hasn't. I do, however, think it is pretty telling that he is still in there even though he is playing poorly. And what it tells me is that he is still better than the other guy.
 



The 12th Man said:
Correct. And the "Gray is God" people on here can't do it either. I'm not saying Weber has been playing lights out. He hasn't. I do, however, think it is pretty telling that he is still in there even though he is playing poorly. And what it tells me is that he is still better than the other guy.
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I don't think the argument has been that Gray is God, that's a bit of a straw man, I think it's been that Weber has been so bad that it may be time to look at other options on the roster.

If they start dabbling with Gray more in games it would seem the coaching staff is thinking the same thing. We'll have to see how it plays out.
 

The 12th Man said:
Correct. And the "Gray is God" people on here can't do it either. I'm not saying Weber has been playing lights out. He hasn't. I do, however, think it is pretty telling that he is still in there even though he is playing poorly. And what it tells me is that he is still better than the other guy.
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No one is saying "Gray Is God" but we are definitely saying "Weber Is Not Good".......

Even Willie Beamen had a bad first game and look how that turned out....... :cool:
 

thailleagle said:
No one is saying "Gray Is God" but we are definitely saying "Weber Is Not Good".......

Even Willie Beamen had a bad first game and look how that turned out....... :cool:
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To be fair, Willie Beamen "kept the ladies..."

I will 100% agree with that statement. Weber is not good.
 

12th man, hello? You are still supporting Weber??????????????????????????????????
 

upchurch said:
12th man, hello? You are still supporting Weber??????????????????????????????????
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I don't necessarily support Weber's play of late, but I do support the coaching staff and trust them to put the best players on the field.

I hope everyone will remember that the coaches are hired to win games. Thus, their livelihood and that of their families depends on who they put in the game. If they thought Gray would win the game, he would have been in. The fact that they stuck with Weber clearly means that they, who see a lot more of these players than we all do, feel as though he gives the team the best chance to win (and thus the best hance for them to keep their jobs).

Weber has not been good. It can not be argued otherwise. That, however, is not the point. If the coaches do not feel as though there is someone better, I will believe them. It is their job.
 

Weber was alright last year...

how about our new "kill shot" coordinator? Copying 1/2 of the old Baltimore Raven's playbook is not progress, ask Ray Lewis.
 

Adam Webber imho has not improved enough in now his 3rd year to NOT warrant at least a series or 2 to see what Gray brings to the table. Not a play here and there...which really looks to me to be early on in the game and then never again late. Why didn't Gray get any snaps late in this game?

Don't take me wrong here, I love Adam Webber and his desire and how competitive he seems to be. The first series was a prime example though of him just not taking the next step that is required IF a team wants to move to the next level at the most important position on the field. They had a 3rd and 3+ and he goes back to pass and gets just a little pressure and he backs up (why...? a little gun shy perhaps?) and throws a short pass that lands well behind and short of the intended receiver.

These are the things that I see much too often with Adam. He must keep the team on the field in the 3rd down situations and I don't know what the stats are for the gophs in this situation but I don't think they'd be very positive. He needs to do what it takes to get that first down...and he doesn't. Again, I could be wrong here as I haven't perused the stats and someone will probably prove me wrong...

I'm not at practice, I don't see what the coaches see, but I'm personally not sold on Adam being the answer for this team.

I had very high hopes for the team this year. While they have beaten who, again imho they should have, they have not beaten the teams that make people believers. To me this starts at the QB position. He is not just a leader of the offense, he is the team leader. Again, I love the competitive nature of Adam, I'm just not sold on the abilities of Adam.

To me; we are now entering 2 games that will show if this guy has the ability to do what it takes. We have a 2 game stretch that will be the toughest in years. I want him to do well. I want the team to do well and somehow pull off 1 win. These 2 games to me will tell me what he is made of and IF he is the leader of the offense we need.
 

weber is the leader of a 2-1 conference team. I know that's not so great because of all the other Big Ten teams with better big ten records than us like Iowa, and OSU, and... oh wait I guess that's all of them.

I've only seen one QB so far that I thought was any better in the Big Ten so far and that is Kafka. All the others have performed just as bad or worse under pressure.

Elliot was leading the league in pass completion, he didn't look good. Stanzi makes dumbass throws just like Weber. The Wiscy kid, not impressive, Prior still looks lost when he's not running, clark crapped all over himself the first time he faced pressure against Iowa, williams benched, forcier got yanked because he couldn't handle the pressure tonight. We don't have Tebow, Bradford or McCoy sitting on the bench. And while I wish we had that mythical perfect QB on the bench we don't. And I'm sorry Gray will be good, but he's not a god either. You guys need a grip on reality. weber can be better, but the alternatives can be alot worse.
 

If Gray doesn't offer even a potential upgrade over the standard of play we've seen so far then the future of this program on the offensive side of the ball is in real trouble. He is the signature offensive recruit so far and the success of the program over the next 2-3 years depends almost entirely on his development.
 

I'll trust the staff to make that decision. Weber isn't as bad as you think he is.
 

Schnoodler said:
I'll trust the staff to make that decision. Weber isn't as bad as you think he is.
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Again, I'm a gigantic homer. Weber is not playing well. Given the fact that Marqueis has not yet featured prominently in the offense suggest he hasn't yet grasped the nuances. But let's all clearly understand the fact the just because Weber hasn't been benched suggests that somehow he's not performing that badly.

Dude is a third-year starter and lacks any sort of consistency and poise. And that's even relative to his first two seasons. He's the Benjamin Button of Big Ten QBs.
 

You need to take a look at what's happening on the other teams. He's right in there. There's always this mythical great athlete people like to compare these kids to. There are no great QB's in the Big Ten, and very few in the nation. We know he can do better, but I'm sorry, the others suck just as bad, some are lucky to have good talent around them and can pad their numbers against lesser opponents. But one by one when pressured they look worse than our boy who is pressured all game long every game.

I'm not all that excited by Weber right now either, but everytime I see another big ten game, I don't come away thinking their guy would be an improvement.
 

The problem is you can't get to the top of the conference by being about the same or just a bit worse than the other guys at such a key position. And that's assuming I agree with your assessment that he's right there with them because I don't.

There's no point in sitting Weber for the next two games, but if he doesn't show something soon I personally hope we get a chance to see Gray on a limited basis and if we don't then I'm concerned about his progress.
 

DanvilleGopher said:
Adam Webber imho has not improved enough in now his 3rd year to NOT warrant at least a series or 2 to see what Gray brings to the table. Not a play here and there...which really looks to me to be early on in the game and then never again late. Why didn't Gray get any snaps late in this game?

Don't take me wrong here, I love Adam Webber and his desire and how competitive he seems to be. The first series was a prime example though of him just not taking the next step that is required IF a team wants to move to the next level at the most important position on the field. They had a 3rd and 3+ and he goes back to pass and gets just a little pressure and he backs up (why...? a little gun shy perhaps?) and throws a short pass that lands well behind and short of the intended receiver.

These are the things that I see much too often with Adam. He must keep the team on the field in the 3rd down situations and I don't know what the stats are for the gophs in this situation but I don't think they'd be very positive. He needs to do what it takes to get that first down...and he doesn't. Again, I could be wrong here as I haven't perused the stats and someone will probably prove me wrong...

I'm not at practice, I don't see what the coaches see, but I'm personally not sold on Adam being the answer for this team.

I had very high hopes for the team this year. While they have beaten who, again imho they should have, they have not beaten the teams that make people believers. To me this starts at the QB position. He is not just a leader of the offense, he is the team leader. Again, I love the competitive nature of Adam, I'm just not sold on the abilities of Adam.

To me; we are now entering 2 games that will show if this guy has the ability to do what it takes. We have a 2 game stretch that will be the toughest in years. I want him to do well. I want the team to do well and somehow pull off 1 win. These 2 games to me will tell me what he is made of and IF he is the leader of the offense we need.
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Welcome to the board Danville.

I don't think anyone on this board is going to argue with you about Webber's struggles this year. I don't know if it is coaching or player...but usually it is a combination of both.
 

Khaliq said:
The problem is you can't get to the top of the conference by being about the same or just a bit worse than the other guys at such a key position. And that's assuming I agree with your assessment that he's right there with them because I don't.

There's no point in sitting Weber for the next two games, but if he doesn't show something soon I personally hope we get a chance to see Gray on a limited basis and if we don't then I'm concerned about his progress.
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I'm with you if we come out flat when we come back home and it looks like the bowl is dead without change. But I still have hope that with better balance we can neutralize the rush and weber will make the adjustments. There's more to being a QB than throwing and running. He seems to be a good leader and as long as he's getting us to a bowl with this team, I think he's doing his job. This is not a Big Ten championsip team. Getting to a bowl is a pretty good achievment for this team based on what I've seen. And the QB spot is not the one that's going to turn us into a championship team.
 

Schnoodler said:
You need to take a look at what's happening on the other teams. He's right in there. There's always this mythical great athlete people like to compare these kids to. There are no great QB's in the Big Ten, and very few in the nation. We know he can do better, but I'm sorry, the others suck just as bad, some are lucky to have good talent around them and can pad their numbers against lesser opponents. But one by one when pressured they look worse than our boy who is pressured all game long every game.

I'm not all that excited by Weber right now either, but everytime I see another big ten game, I don't come away thinking their guy would be an improvement.
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Look, relative needs a base. Your base is other Big Ten QBs and, comparatively, Weber is plugging along. Maybe not great, but OK. My base is Weber as a freshman and, relative to that, Weber is a ghost of his former self. Watch the footwork. Watch his head. Watch him when he's going to throw right. None of that was present two years ago.

I'm not happy to admit it either, but he's just not getting the job done. I'm not suggesting he should be benched, but it's hard to believe that a series or two with another QB would be somehow detrimental to the team.
 

I don't know if I said it in this thread or another, but I didn't think there had been a good opp to get Gray a series until today, and I was dissapointed when it didn't happen. But I see it more about the development of the kid than the team right now. I've got thoughts about what's going on with Weber, and I don't know if he can overcome his problems but I think he can. After watching Prior at OSU struggle game after game with four and five star kids around him, I don't think Gray is the answer for this year. I also disagree that playing him is the fastest developmental road for a QB. There's something to be said for watching and standing next to the OC as you learn your reads and see what to do, and what could have been done. It's a process, and you use a luxury of a veteran QB if you have it. I know some people thought we could win it all this year. And maybe that's why I see this differently as I think we're right where I thought we'd be. Quite frankly I think we're doing as well as we are because of weber and not in spite of him. But that's just how I saw this year from the get go, and I know some saw visions of great things. Based on what i don't know, but there's nothing wrong with hoping for the best and even believing in it.
 

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