Timberwolves draft pick Zach LaVine comments on former teammate Josh Martin

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WanderingGopher said:
I was thinking the same thing when they were showing his highlights and stats. Same type of player, same size, same relative lack of production, although I suppose LaVine is a little bit ahead of where Williams was as a freshman.

Makes me wonder if Rodney should've just declared after his sophomore year, maybe someone would've taken him based on "potential" and "athleticism."
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Really? You watched a 6'5" point guard who can shoot and thought he was the same type of player as Rodney Williams? Do you remember Rodney Williams at all?
 

MaroonGold1 said:
He played 25 minutes a game, 4th on the UCLA roster... get a new bit or watch a game if you really are bothered by the fact that he didn't "start".

As for the people that said he "shot up draft boards after his workouts". Chad Ford had him going #7 overall in a January Mock draft
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Begs he question on why you're bothered by it? Number of guys didn't have him that high in January did they? Many said how impressed they were with how well he had done in the combine and at workouts including Flip.

Seems like a reasonable gamble since at that point they all are aren't they?

Keep going though. You're on a roll. :)
 

Iceland12 said:
Begs he question on why you're bothered by it? Number of guys didn't have him that high in January did they? Many said how impressed they were with how well he had done in the combine and at workouts including Flip.

Seems like a reasonable gamble since at that point they all are aren't they?

Keep going though. You're on a roll. :)
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Nba Draft net had him #5 in December. It's ok if you aren't that familiar with him, he's definitely a project. To say he shot up draft boards due to workouts is incorrect though
 

MaroonGold1 said:
Nba Draft net had him #5 in December. It's ok if you aren't that familiar with him, he's definitely a project. To say he shot up draft boards due to workouts is incorrect though, so maybe just keep those thoughts to yourself? Just a thought
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Hey you found two! Now go back and find 10-12 that were saying that in April, after they saw how he played in the PAC-12 season and see if you can get that 100% consensus.

Even your boy Ford had him going 14 in April. Good call by the way.

You? Take some of your own advice.
 

I thought you two were the same person arguing. Maybe one of you needs an avatar change.
 


Iceland12 said:
Hey you found two! Now go back and find 10-12 that were saying that in April, after they saw how he played in the PAC-12 season and see if you can get that 100% consensus.

Even your boy Ford had him going 14 in April. Good call by the way.

You? Take some of your own advice.
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Ha, I'm not sure you understand what you are even typing, but thanks for making my point for me. #5-7 in Midseason, underwhelming Pac 12 performance, Falls to #14 in Chad Ford Rankings (April)... Picked #13.

"LaVine's draft stock rose highly after combine and individual workouts" - Your Words, not mine

So I ask again, how did he shoot up draft boards in workouts?

I guess they always say, don't battle wits with an unarmed man
 

Rodney going in the preseason of his sophomore year was the projected 11th pick by SI but after his sophomore year probably would have been just a late second rounder so i don't know if that would have bettered him at all declaring early.
 


afurry91 said:
What kind of future NBA star starts games on the pine for his college team?
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The Bucks may have one in Giannis and he wasn't even playing in Greece's top league. So you can find superstars anywhere.*


*Not saying LaVine will be a superstar.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
How many players get drafted in any sport, especially in the NBA, based on potential and an athleticism but a lack of production, then go on to become even rotation players, let alone stars? Very very few if any.
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120213_Giannis.jpg


In his first year and almost the same spot in the draft too.
 

MadtownGopher said:
120213_Giannis.jpg


In his first year and almost the same spot in the draft too.
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Andre Drummond would be another example. There are numerous NBA draft picks each season who are chosen based off of athleticism and measurables.

Lavine isn't the only one from yesterday's draft. Dante Exum was picked 5th.
 






And, has anyone mentioned Marvin Williams yet?

That's pretty similar situation except her was drafted 2nd overall and only played 22mpg as a freshman at North Carolina. He's now a rotation player with Utah averaging 10 ppg....
 


Iceland12 said:
Reading isn't you're strong suit it?
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Irony is ignoring how foolish one was made to look, responding about another not being able to read (I don't get it?), and then not knowing the difference between your and you're...
 

MaroonGold1 said:
Irony is ignoring how foolish one was made to look, responding about another not being able to read (I don't get it?), and then not knowing the difference between your and you're...
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Irony? No that was a typing error. :rolleyes:
 

What has Giannis done to warrant star potential?

Drummond is a big guy and big guys are always slower to come along. Even so Drummond started 30 games as a freshman and led the team in rebounds per game (7.6), blocks per game (2.7), and field goal percentage (.538) so I don't get either of those examples.
 

tinyarch said:
I'm sure his stats at UCLA prove your point...
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Actually yes. LaVine shot 37.5% from 3-point land as a freshman. The best Rodney ever shot was 30.9%.
LaVine made more three pointers in one season (48) than Rodney did in his career (46).
LaVine had 4.2 rebounds per 40 minutes, the lowest number Rodney ever had was 5.3.

They're completely different players.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
What has Giannis done to warrant star potential?

Drummond is a big guy and big guys are always slower to come along. Even so Drummond started 30 games as a freshman and led the team in rebounds per game (7.6), blocks per game (2.7), and field goal percentage (.538) so I don't get either of those examples.
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I don't believe MadisonGopher said Giannis was a star. He replied to your post that said without pre draft production it's nearly impossible to be a rotation player. Giannis has unbelievable potential, and has been in the nba for only 1 year, so I guess I'm not sure how quickly you would expect him to be a star? Ps, Lavine will not be a star next year either.

As for Drummond, again, you were the one who said players drafted on potential can't become rotation players, let alone stars. Drummonds college numbers were awful similar to Ralph Sampson III Soph year... Something tells me Ralph wouldn't have been chosen 9 had he declared
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
What has Giannis done to warrant star potential?

Drummond is a big guy and big guys are always slower to come along. Even so Drummond started 30 games as a freshman and led the team in rebounds per game (7.6), blocks per game (2.7), and field goal percentage (.538) so I don't get either of those examples.
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Justin Jackson, Cincinnati. 53.2 fg%, 2.9 blocks, 7.2 rebounds, 27.8 mpg. Undrafted.

Pretty similar numbers that you just laid out for Drummond, the #9 pick in the draft... But nba teams draft on production only, not potential, right?

But seriously, arguing with someone who compared a 6'7" power forward who literally couldn't shoot, with a 6'5" combo guard who does one thing well right now (shoot) is pretty silly... And that's on me
 

MaroonGold1 said:
I don't believe MadisonGopher said Giannis was a star. He replied to your post that said without pre draft production it's nearly impossible to be a rotation player. Giannis has unbelievable potential, and has been in the nba for only 1 year, so I guess I'm not sure how quickly you would expect him to be a star? Ps, Lavine will not be a star next year either.
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Yep.

And just for fun, I submit this single play as why he has a ton of potential.


And he's still growing, almost 7 feet now.
 

MaroonGold1 said:
Justin Jackson, Cincinnati. 53.2 fg%, 2.9 blocks, 7.2 rebounds, 27.8 mpg. Undrafted.

Pretty similar numbers that you just laid out for Drummond, the #9 pick in the draft... But nba teams draft on production only, not potential, right?

But seriously, arguing with someone who compared a 6'7" power forward who literally couldn't shoot, with a 6'5" combo guard who does one thing well right now (shoot) is pretty silly... And that's on me
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The question I asked at the beginning was how many players that were drafted based on potential, AND had a lackluster college career, went on to become rotation players or even stars? Not one comes to the top of my head, especially in the stars category.

Of course players are drafted on a combination of potential and production. Like I said earlier Drummond started all but 4 games, and led his team in FG%, blocks, and rebounds. LaVine didn't start or lead his team in anything.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The question I asked at the beginning was how many players that were drafted based on potential, AND had a lackluster college career, went on to become rotation players or even stars? Not one comes to the top of my head, especially in the stars category.

Of course players are drafted on a combination of potential and production. Like I said earlier Drummond started all but 4 games, and led his team in FG%, blocks, and rebounds. LaVine didn't start or lead his team in anything.
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Swen Nater
 

MaroonGold1 said:
Really? You watched a 6'5" point guard who can shoot and thought he was the same type of player as Rodney Williams? Do you remember Rodney Williams at all?
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I think you have a higher opinion of LaVine, and lower opinion of Williams, than I do. And remember, Williams was rated very highly on NBA Draftnet at one time, too, before he stayed in college another year or two and the flaws in his game became more evident. Just saying, I think it's backward the way "athletic" players come out before they've proven anything in college, but as long as the NBA teams keep rewarding them they'll keep doing it.

Hey, I hope LaVine does great for the Wolves. I just don't see it. His shooting stats (over a very small sample size) were ok, not great, but he certainly doesn't have the form of a pure shooter. And he may have been listed as a "PG" in college, but he's not an elite ballhandler at this time by any stretch.
 

WanderingGopher said:
I think you have a higher opinion of LaVine, and lower opinion of Williams, than I do. And remember, Williams was rated very highly on NBA Draftnet at one time, too, before he stayed in college another year or two and the flaws in his game became more evident. Just saying, I think it's backward the way "athletic" players come out before they've proven anything in college, but as long as the NBA teams keep rewarding them they'll keep doing it.

Hey, I hope LaVine does great for the Wolves. I just don't see it. His shooting stats (over a very small sample size) were ok, not great, but he certainly doesn't have the form of a pure shooter. And he may have been listed as a "PG" in college, but he's not an elite ballhandler at this time by any stretch.
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I liked the Lavine pick, but I wouldn't say I'm super high on him. He has loads of potential, will he reach his ceiling? Who knows... If he does he'll be one of the 5 best players in this draft, and I like taking that risk at #13.

Again, my problem with your assessment was neither a shot at Rodney nor unnecessary praise of Lavine. It's that they really are completely different players. Lavine is more of a combo guard than PG, agree there.... But you do know Rodney was a PF his senior year? Is Lavine the best shooter in the draft? No, but it's certainly a strength. Rodney was one of the worst jump shooters we'll see come through Williams in quite awhile.

Is there one similarity other than elite leaping ability that I am missing?
 

First off, the Wolves are a joke (not Flip's fault). They could've ended up with ALL of the following guys if they played their cards right: PG- Stephen Curry, SG- Demar DeRozan, SF- Danny Green, PF- Taj Gibson, Backup PG- Patty Mills

Moving on from my rant now, when it comes to LaVine, I also see a guy who will either reach his ceiling or be a complete bust. No in between. My comparison would either be Russell Westbrook (if he reaches his potential) or a Wes Johnson (if he doesn't). I would've personally taken Harris if I were Flip, but I won't be quick to judge. I LOVED the Glen Robinson III pick at #40. It's fun to see B1G guys get drafted.
 

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