This year's team

[Caravan Shaker]

I think everybody realizes the difficult situation Monson was in with the program. My biggest problem with Monson was that after eight years, his program was clearly regressing, not getting better. He kept saying while he was here that once the program got off probation, things would improve. And under him, they never did. He had players transferring in and out like crazy the last few years, which is not the sign of a stable program.

Agree completely. My only point is that once he was off probation, he was already doomed to fail because he had developed a reputation as having a mediocre program and top recruits wouldn't come here. Unless they were like Humphries, who only cared about getting his stats up to bolt for the NBA and didn't care about the direction of the program.

My other problem with him was that it seemed like he didn't work very hard at his job. He even admitted as much in a newspaper article immediately after his resignation. This really irked me considering he was making a sizable salary and then magically realized afterward he didn't work hard enough to keep the program moving forward.

Also agree completely. I think he still had a mid-major mentality, perhaps subconsciously.

I guess the biggest thing is a difference in perception. Yeah, Monson came into a difficult situation. But at the same time, so did Tubby. Agree that's its kind of comparing apples to oranges in terms of difficulty, but neither had an easy situation to deal with.

Agreed.

Tubby's regime has rebounded quicker, no doubt, and probably had a less difficult situation to deal with. Monson on the other hand had eight years to get things going and he never did. In fact, I shudder to think where we would be with him at the helm today. Fortunately, we'll never know.

No argument here from me. As far as I'm concerned, Monson would never have been able to overcome his reputation even if he had figured out he needed to work harder before landing at LBSU. I'm thrilled with what Tubby's done so far, and hope that expectations continue to rise.

 

[TruthTeller]

First off, I'm thrilled that Tubby is here. He's a hall of fame type coach that is an obvious upgrade from what was previously on the sideline and the future of the program looks extremely bright. I also often find that TT has a distorted view of what "the truth" actually is, and that s/he often cannot do what s/he accuses of others not being able to do: look at a situation objectively. That being said, I have to side with TT that trying to compare the Monson and Tubby regimes is going to be hugely difficult because of the situations that each inherited. Monson's first few years might've looked a bit different without freak injuries to Bauer and Bickerstaff, if Pryz hadn't thought that classwork was optional, if he hadn't lost any players from the scandal itself, etc. Also, I believe that the recruiting and scholarship restrictions had a cumulative effect on the program, because not only were we handicapped by the amount of visits and contacts that we could make, Monson had to try to recruit students while the scandal was still fresh in everyone's mind, and thus 5+ years into probation the would-be senior leaders of the program may have been different players, leading to better results after the probation ended. In my opinion to say that just because we were no longer on probation we should have had better teams is a bit short-sighted. By that time Monson had developed a reputation for having mediocre teams, dooming his recruiting efforts to failure. If he had had more success earlier because there hadn't been a scandal and the subsequent restrictions that might not have been the case. Could he have done a better job? Sure, I don't think anyone doubts that; but to try and compare Monson and Tubby as if they had an equal playing field is a fallacy.

You think? Posters like MRJ know better, much better.

Nice post CS.

There is the perception that I dont care for Tubby. That perception is incorrect. He is a geat coach. I am thrilled he is the coach at U of MN.

That said, the rah rah crowd is in full attack mode if you dont worship tubby. I dont worship, and wont.

I simply provide a differing point of view than the rah rah crowd - and it is not received well because Saint Smith is not always on the highest of pedestals.

 

[MRJ]

You think? Posters like MRJ know better, much better.

Nice post CS.

There is the perception that I dont care for Tubby. That perception is incorrect. He is a geat coach. I am thrilled he is the coach at U of MN.

That said, the rah rah crowd is in full attack mode if you dont worship tubby. I dont worship, and wont.

I simply provide a differing point of view than the rah rah crowd - and it is not received well because Saint Smith is not always on the highest of pedestals.

Truthteller, I feel like I probably owe you an apology. In the case of Monson, like with Tubby, I gave him about four years before I started to be really critical of him. That's just the way I roll. On the football side, I'm doing the same thing with Brewster. I appreciate the fact that people have differing viewpoints and I agree that blind faith is not beneficial.

But in the world of sports, I tend to give coaches the benefit of the doubt until I'm sure they either can't get the job done or are failing in certain, troubling respects. it's a complex equation, no doubt about it. But I tend to reserve judgment until I'm sure.

In Monson's case, after eight years, it was definitely time to move on. And like you, I'm obviously thrilled that Tubby is here. I just wanted to clarify my position. Currently, I tend to like what I'm seeing overall, despite the offense being brutally bad for this season.

Do I expect us to continue to progress? Absolutely. If we don't, then yeah, I'll jump right in with both feet on the criticism. For me, it all comes down to progression and as I long as I see that, I'll be okay with what's going on.

 

[TruthTeller]

Truthteller, I feel like I probably owe you an apology. In the case of Monson, like with Tubby, I gave him about four years before I started to be really critical of him. That's just the way I roll. On the football side, I'm doing the same thing with Brewster. I appreciate the fact that people have differing viewpoints and I agree that blind faith is not beneficial.
But in the world of sports, I tend to give coaches the benefit of the doubt until I'm sure they either can't get the job done or are failing in certain, troubling respects. it's a complex equation, no doubt about it. But I tend to reserve judgment until I'm sure.

In Monson's case, after eight years, it was definitely time to move on. And like you, I'm obviously thrilled that Tubby is here. I just wanted to clarify my position. Currently, I tend to like what I'm seeing overall, despite the offense being brutally bad for this season.

Do I expect us to continue to progress? Absolutely. If we don't, then yeah, I'll jump right in with both feet on the criticism. For me, it all comes down to progression and as I long as I see that, I'll be okay with what's going on.

No need to apologize, MRJ. It is ok to have other viewpoints. Just dont tell Toro or super star you apologized.

Me too. It is ok to point out concerns.

Definitely time to go. However, the 2008-2009 offense has been nearly a replica of Monson's last couple years. Most here wont admit that tubby's capable of having any deficiencies.

 

[Reserve]

However, the 2008-2009 offense has been nearly a replica of Monson's last couple years

Ya think maybe it has something to do with Monson's players still being here ? I like our players for the most part but Westbrook, Nolen, and Johnson, Jamal, Williams, Payton, are not offensive superstars, and likely would see fewer minutes with many teams. A few would have had to drop down a level to get significant minutes.

 

[TruthTeller]

Ya think maybe it has something to do with Monson's players still being here ? I like our players for the most part but Westbrook, Nolen, and Johnson, Jamal, Williams, Payton, are not offensive superstars, and likely would see fewer minutes with many teams. A few would have had to drop down a level to get significant minutes.

Nice try.

How many minutes do JAS and JWill play, reserve? Payton? When Nolen was rolling to 16-1, there were no catcalls. Now he is not good enough.

Johnson is not an offensive force. However he is averaging about 10 PPG. And with his defense and ability to block shots and other nice little BB things, he is quite a player. One that I would want on any team. Would you want him to not be on the squad?

Too bad Toro wrote him off before he even played 40 minutes of college BB. Shows how much Toro knows.

 

[WilliamsArenaGuy]

Just dont tell Toro or super star you apologized.

Who the hell are Toro and SuperStar? Why do you need to use these lame little nicknames? If it wasn't clear before that you are ZTA, it sure is now. That was ZTA's calling card.

 

[Reserve]

Nice try.

How many minutes do JAS and JWill play, reserve? Payton? When Nolen was rolling to 16-1, there were no catcalls. Now he is not good enough.

Nolen has been debated to death he's not last in Big 10 point guard scoring for anything. The Monson leftovers are a collection of two and three star players including Al. They all have their moments, including Damian, but Tubby's been a miracle worker with them whether you like it or not.

 

[Stan]

Who the hell are Toro and SuperStar? Why do you need to use these lame little nicknames? If it wasn't clear before that you are ZTA, it sure is now. That was ZTA's calling card.

zTTa's bit was old before and is still old. He thinks he's smarter than the rest, but doesn't realize he takes away from the board with his pettiness and childish behavior.

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