This team is fun on paper, but why does it look so bad? | Gopherhole

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No Mamba mentality, we don't have any swagger. None of the irrational confidence that's needed to be great.

Hopefully that confidence gets built soon.
 


howeda7 said:
Payne has it. Carrington might. Battle will get his back soon.
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I thought Carrington had some flashes, I wanted the ball in his hands for that last shot.
 

Time to get some flow with Battle, Garcia, PP, Cooper and Carrington/Henley. Then add in a bit of OJ. The rest need to become cheerleaders.

Tough stretch of 4-5 games coming before some more cup cakes.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
Carrington also is a sneaky good defensive player (especially for a FR). He is our best perimeter defender by a long shot.
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He gets lost at times though, that easy layup at the end was his man.
 

This team has never looked fun on paper at the guard position. Carrington can play though.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Carrington also is a sneaky good defensive player (especially for a FR). He is our best perimeter defender by a long shot.
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he and Henley both are pretty good perimeter defenders but they both get lost at times. which is all part of it as freshman. i do like the Carrington/Henley combo at the other guard spot. And i think they will both continue to get better and better as the season goes along.

Carrington is a fun guy to watch.
 




Battle had too much “Mamba” mentality in him last night.

Of his 15 shots, I only remember one shot in the paint, the rest were contested, long jumpers or 3’s with a hand in his face.

Henley or JOJ need to see more run as they provide so much more movement and penetration than our other forwards and guards.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Time to get some flow with Battle, Garcia, PP, Cooper and Carrington/Henley. Then add in a bit of OJ. The rest need to become cheerleaders.
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Well, that's 7 players. If we limit the playing time to them, we'll likely have the same situation we had last year where the top 3 or 4 players were worn down in the latter part of the season. The difference is that the 7th player you listed is better already and has more upside than Charlie Daniels. We'll also have foul trouble and quite possibly at least short-term injuries during the season.

Treyton Thompson looks much better to me this season than he did last year. I think he's capable of playing 10 to 15 decent minutes a game. Samuels isn't very good but he's good enough to give a few minutes of breather time to the other guards. Even Ramberg is trustworthy enough to play a few minutes if needed (better than Thiam or Ogele last year).
 

They are young, still adjusting to the speed and physicality of the game at this level. I like what I see. Battle too many shots last night. When they had the large lead they needed to be a bit more patient. Some quick shots put up and a bad turnover here and there let CBU back in the game. I like where they are headed, now that this group has all the parts look for more consistency as they play together.
 



I don't have an answer to the question in the title to this post because, relatively speaking, this team doesn't look so bad to me. Battle definitely is not in good enough condition to play the kinds of minutes he did last night and should be used a little more sparingly in the immediate future until his conditioning improves. Garcia is a bit less dominating than we might have hoped but he's been pretty good overall. Everyone else except for Samuels looks at least as good or better than I expected.
 

cjbfbp said:
Well, that's 7 players. If we limit the playing time to them, we'll likely have the same situation we had last year where the top 3 or 4 players were worn down in the latter part of the season. player you listedThe difference is that the 7th is better already and has more upside than Charlie Daniels. We'll also have foul trouble and quite possibly at least short-term injuries during the season.

Treyton Thompson looks much better to me this season than he did last year. I think he's capable of playing 10 to 15 decent minutes a game. Samuels isn't very good but he's good enough to give a few minutes of breather time to the other guards. Even Ramberg is trustworthy enough to play a few minutes if needed (better than Thiam or Ogele last year).
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So are the 8, 9 and 10th. But they all have significant flaws that will limit their floor time.

TT started the second half rather than PP which really surprised me. BJ seems to see more value in him than I but he see's him everyday.
 

I actually saw improvement last night against a pretty decent team. Better defense, better blocking out on the boards. The offense has a long ways to go yet, as guys are figuring out what their role is. The ball movement is just not there yet so nothing is easy except those Payne dunks.
 



Garcia had a rough night last night but made the huge shot at the end when they needed him to. Battle will get better as he gets back in playing shape. Freshman just need time and experience but you can see talent there in this group.

Free throw shooting remains a massive concern though as under 60% as a team is just flat out bad from the line.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
So are the 8, 9 and 10th. But they all have significant flaws that will limit their floor time.

TT started the second half rather than PP which really surprised me. BJ seems to see more value in him than I but he see's him everyday.
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Of course players 8 through 10 should have limited time but I don't think all of them should be limited to 0 minutes if we want to keep our main players fresh. We had three of the Top 5 guys in the conference in minutes played last year and that showed at the end of the season. Only 1 other team had 2 in the Top 10 and four teams had no players in the Top 10. Not everyone can be a Luke Loewe who seemed to have an endless motor but we didn't depend on him for much offense.

I believe that Johnson has started TT in every game so far but he's played fewer minutes than Payne in all games except the first one.
 

Battle has had little to no practice time with these guys. He had the surgery early in practice. It's going to take some time to develop chemistry with the young guys (as well as Garcia).
 

cheeseheadgophfan said:
Battle has had little to no practice time with these guys. He had the surgery early in practice. It's going to take some time to develop chemistry with the young guys (as well as Garcia).
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Of course, but that's why he should be eased in a bit more instead of playing top minutes right away. Only Payne and Cooper played more minutes than Battle last night and they played only 4 minutes more.
 

To answer the question in the title. To me its 3 things. 1. Youth/exp as a team--We are a step slow on both ends, that is to be expected, but also something that needs to improved as the year goes on 2. I am not a fan of whatever Ben is doing on offense. There were a lot of stats last year that said we had one of the worst offenses in the country last year and guys like Battle/Willis bailed us out by hitting bad shots. In theory we have a pass first pg, we have a good shooting SG, we have 2 high scoring forwards and bruiser down low. we should score more. I dont like saying this but i think if Fran was the coach of this squad they would be scoring 15 more ppg. Ben needs to address this 3. FREE THROWS!!! we leave 10 points out there every game, when you are a bottom of the pack team you simply cant shoot 55% on ft's. If they shoot say 75% yesterday we probably win by 10 and things are much happier. Good news is all of these things can/should be improved, now will the staff be able to do that I am not as sure, I hope so.
 

bga1 said:
I actually saw improvement last night against a pretty decent team. Better defense, better blocking out on the boards. The offense has a long ways to go yet, as guys are figuring out what their role is. The ball movement is just not there yet so nothing is easy except those Payne dunks.
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People need to stop with this nonsense. They are projected to be a middle of the pack team in a weak conference. This team lost their first game to Dan Monson's LBSU by 15 this season. The Gophers were up 15-0 to start, and were still two inches from losing in regulation after only scoring 53.

A win is a win but Cal Baptist is a team most other B1G teams would destroy.
 


fan of Ray Williams said:
Payne was immeasurably better on securing rebounding position. Thought he, along with Carrington, showed the most improvement.
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Last night was Payne's breakout game but he's been pretty solid overall so far and is shooting 77% from the field for the season. If you really need a bucket, he looks like the surest thing so far. After being a non-entity in his first game, Carrington has come alive in the last two. He's been a dog at the free throw line to date but that makes him fairly typical on this team.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Lots of standing around on offense. The ball should start down the low on every possession. And it doesn't have to just be Payne. We saw what Garcia can do on that last play. And Battle has always had success with that turnaround mid-range jumper.
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Yep. And once it goes inside, Battle will also be deadly on the kick out threes. He was shooting tough shots last night that he was trying to create for himself.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
People need to stop with this nonsense. They are projected to be a middle of the pack team in a weak conference. This team lost their first game to Dan Monson's LBSU by 15 this season. The Gophers were up 15-0 to start, and were still two inches from losing in regulation after only scoring 53.

A win is a win but Cal Baptist is a team most other B1G teams would destroy.
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Yes, we realize that we're not Michigan State or Purdue and probably not even Penn State but please excuse us if we choose to enjoy what we can. Just because you're a generally miserable person doesn't mean that the rest of us have to follow your lead.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
People need to stop with this nonsense. They are projected to be a middle of the pack team in a weak conference. This team lost their first game to Dan Monson's LBSU by 15 this season. The Gophers were up 15-0 to start, and were still two inches from losing in regulation after only scoring 53.

A win is a win but Cal Baptist is a team most other B1G teams would destroy.
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I don't disagree with that, I just consider Cal Baptist to be decent compared to other teams we have played and struggled with. They are a notch below Depaul but at least decent competition. Most Big Ten teams would beat them up and as it stands right now we are near the bottom of the Big Ten. The good news is that we are young and physically talented with the exception of the lack of quickness at guard.
 

Gold Vision said:
Battle had too much “Mamba” mentality in him last night.

Of his 15 shots, I only remember one shot in the paint, the rest were contested, long jumpers or 3’s with a hand in his face.

Henley or JOJ need to see more run as they provide so much more movement and penetration than our other forwards and guards.
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This is more due to very poor ball movement on offense. Far too much dribbling and allowing the defense to easily guard us.
At present we have a lot of people, off ball, who are busy watching and trying to read the defense without doing anything. We lack back screens and cutters and get caught watching the ball. I think this is mostly due to the youth on this team that are needed to be competitive.

What we saw last night, which is actually a good thing, is Garcia having an awful game, yet the kids stepped up and held their own. We had Battle, whose foot obviously affected his shot, and Garcia both struggle, yet Pharrell Payne had his best game so far. He swallowed up rebounds and pounded the paint on offense. Very impressive for a true freshman.
 

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